D5 Auto - Acceleration lag when pulling off

[JBinding]

Ok guys...I'm a newbie so this site and forum is fanatstic... and I'm sure this has been discussed at length on this forum and I'm sure there is a thread that I can't find but.....

I've just bought a used (10 months old/12k) XC90 SE which I'm in love with... great room, very smooth drive, lots of toys...she's a beauty, no regrets....

However, both my wife and I have noticed that pulling away from stand still say at lights or a junction for example that there is about a 2 second delay before the engine really begins to pull...we both thought it was just the way we were driving...(not used to auto and diesel) but now I'm concerned that this is a characteristic of the car/engine...

So go on, do your worse, open the flood gates, shatter my dreams with a Clarkson like tirade and tell me that I've just bought a dud! and there is nothing that can been done about it and I'll have to get used to it!

I don't really want to chip it...that kind of thing scares the bejaysus out of me but I'm worried that the slow pull off is more than a bit dangerous! Have Volvo done anything to address this issue? Any news or tips would be gratefully received...

Happy motoring! (I Hope)

JB

[volvotuning]

That's how they are. It's (as Microsoft would say) a feature!

Seriously though, there are two ways around it -

1. Ask Volvo if there is a transmission or ECM software update for it.
2. Tune it.

Option 2 most definately works for sure. Option 1 may work but not to the same extent as option 2.

Adam.

[IC]

Hi JB, welcome to the forum, the best thing that you can do is get in touch with the VOC XC90 register keeper to get some advice - he might be able to put you in touch with other owners who can share their experiences with you. You then can get a better overall perspective on your car's performance when moving off and then make an informed decision on the best action to take. You have written that you have an automatic - is it a geartronic? I'll get back to you with some info if I can!

[JBinding]

Iain and Adam

Thanks for getting back to me so soon...

I've a couple of little niggles (can't open the front cup holder cover fully between the driver and passenger! D'Oh!) I suspect that I may take it to a Volvo dealer and see if there are any software updates to Engine Management System...

Iain..it's actually a Geartronic auto box if that helps...

Adam... How much £££ are we talking about to tune/chip the engine?

Thanks in anticipation...

Justin

[IC]

Hi Justin, the issue of hesitation may be the geartronic gearbox not the engine - is there anybody out there with geartronics with the same hesitation issues? Adam what's your thoughts on the geartronic on the XC90?

[volvotuning]

All XC90 geartronics have this delay. The car is weighs 2.3 tons and the GT box is not the fastest of transmissions . It's not a hesitation as such, just a delay in moving off which means you have to anticipate early on the throttle in order to move off in time when pulling away from junctions. A real pain in the @$$ for all the owners I have tuned the cars for.

I think there may be a software update from Volvo to reduce the delay. But I know for sure that tuning makes the problem go away.

Adam.

[volvotuning]

Justin,

I have sent you a PM.

Adam.

[PAZ3154]

its really just a characteristic of a diesel automatic. although in my experience certainly more prominent on the D5 engine. the S80 and S60 autos suffer from the same unnerving problem. although its worse in the XC90 due to the extra weight. Volvo say they have addressed this problem with the introduction of the new 185bhp euro IV diesel for the 06 MY. With improved air inlet and higher pressure injection system the torque should certainly be more lively at the lower end.

[tj101c70]

Hi Now on my 3rd D5 se gear, all been a little as you mention, and all cured to a large extent with a power box, IMHO better than reprograming the ecu,mine now on the 3rd XC (Pm for more details)

It wouls also depend how the previous owner drove, being an adaptive box,give it what is called "the italian tune up" ie a good bit of stick, may inprove things

Regards TJ

TJ101 04 V70R AWD (Flash-Man)
05 XC90 D5SE(Ruby-Geartronic)

[pyaap]

Hi Justin,

I do believe that this is an issue which Volvo are aware of and trying to fix. As already mentioned, its largely down to the transmission and does seem to affect a fair proportion of XC90s both here and abroad. Tuning is an option but given the number of reports of such problems, I cannot help but feel that if Volvo felt that would cure the problem, they would have embarked on a performance-related software upgrade package by now. Its been a huge issue in the USA too and the main issue about the transmission is the reported weakness of the gearbox (although some tuners offer separate warranty on this). It was also recently discussed that a software calibration specialist within Volvo Special Vehicles in Sweden itself has acknowledged the drivetrain issue. Have a look at www.wothrline.com and feel free to email Janne Ellwoth about your concerns and what he thinks may help. Despite his seniority in Volvo, he's been very kind to personally reply to emails in the past and is an extremely down-to-earth person.

[JOHN 850]

Recently had to borrow a new V70 D5 geartronic from Dealer & had the same problem - I found it down right dangerous when having to pull out of a busy junction ! When I took it back I explained about this & they said the gearbox is designed to put itself into neutral when stopped, which then puts itself into drive when you come off the footbrake & is there to stop excessive wear on the box. This however takes a couple of seconds & obviously can easily be 'caught out' with quick foot work !

I personally like autos, but wouldn't have one of these out of choice. It sounds like the gearbox is a weakness & needs all the help it can get !! I would have thought Volvo could re-write the software though if customers didn't like this facility ?

Cheers,

John.

[YO-EL]

Deleted by the request of the poster.

[carlhunt]

Is this just a characteristic of the diesel automatics or is the low end torque of a petrol engine sufficient i.e. do T6 geartronic owners face similar problems ?

Ta

Carl

[StevePritchard]

Can anybody shed some light on this topic then?

On one hand we've got the possibility that it's the gearbox - if I understand correctly, the theory is that it sits in neutral, and takes a while to kick in to first. This seems unlikely to me because it's not that you don't move, it's that there is a real lag until you move at speed.

On the other hand, there's the point that an engine reprogram cures the problem - this would indicate that the gearbox is less of a player here, and it's the torque below 2000rpm that's the most likely culprit.

Has anybody had any specific info from Volvo regarding this, and whether there's any official software that addresses this issue?

Cheers,

Steve.

[KeatV70D5SE]

I had an S60 loaner when my car was being serviced and the geartronic box was rubbish (IMO). I remember driving Toyota Landcruiser 4.2 turbo diesel autos 10 years ago that had better gearboxes.

[StevePritchard]

I've driven auto gearboxes in the past (most recently an Isuzu Trooper) which didn't suffer the delay in take-off. I guess, the issue is whether the delay is clutch-slippage from the geaur box, or a lack of torque from the engine at low revs.

I guess if Adam is right from VolvoTuning then the latter plays a bigger part in the problem than the former.

Cheers,

Steve.

[mikeluke]

Not saying that it cures the problem but I have found that a tuning box (on my 163HP T5 manual) has had a huge impact on the performance. Please email me if you want some details - in the UK they run from £250 upwards but I managed to find a supplier in Germany that does them for around £100. I was quite sceptical but it really does work - quote is 195HP and I have to believe that is about right. BTW - I bought a manual gearbox XC90 because I thought that the T5 engine plus Geartronic were a very poor match when I test drove the car. Not enough gee-gees to pull the tank....

[StevePritchard]

My car was in for a service today, and apparently, after speaking to Volvo Technical, they say that it's behaving as expected, and there's nothing they can do.

I've purchased a tuning box, and will report what, if any, effect it has on the problem.

Cheers,

Steve.

[JBinding]

Thanks Steve

Keep in touch let us know how you get on with the Power Box and if it makes any difference, is it worth the investment, easily fitted etc...having now had my XC90 just over a month, the accleration lag at pull off is something you get used to but it is far from satisfactory.

Cheers for now

Justin

[StevePritchard]

I will keep you posted.

I was planning to put the box in this weekend, but due to a fault with my fuel gauge the XC90 is going back into the garage for a couple of days next week, so I'll hold off fitting the PBox until I get it back.

Cheers,

Steve.

[Peter Milnes]

There is an excellent tuning box available from a German source which gives the 163bhp D5 a boost to 195bhp for £100. See letters in the latest "Diesel Car" magazine for details.

All the best, Peter.

[StevePritchard]

>
>There is an excellent tuning box available from a German
>source which gives the 163bhp D5 a boost to 195bhp for £100.
>See letters in the latest "Diesel Car" magazine for details.
>
>
>All the best, Peter.

That's the sort of performance increase I'm expecting to get, but I did pay more than that, although mine comes with a warranty that covers any shortfall in the Volvo warranty should something go wrong.

Cheers,

Steve.

[steveny]

Hi Justin

I seem to be in a minority here but... my wife picked up her brand new XC90 2.4D SE Geartronic a couple of weeks ago, and it does not have the delay that you describe.

Not sure if that has helped you much, but maybe there was some kind of issue which has now been fixed?

Regards, Steven

[pt]

I was told by my Volvo dealer, that the new D5 (185hp) with new 6-gear Geartronic should not have this acceleration lag. I am getting new xc90 in January and it would be great if this is now fixed. Does anyone know more about this? (Thanks Steven)

[StevePritchard]

>I was told by my Volvo dealer, that the new D5 (185hp) with
>new 6-gear Geartronic should not have this acceleration lag. I
>am getting new xc90 in January and it would be great if this
>is now fixed. Does anyone know more about this? (Thanks
>Steven)

I've read that this is the case too - however, it still leaves all of us existing owners with the problem looking for a solution. It does appear that Volvo don't have one. Fingers crossed the tuning box will make a difference.

Cheers,

Steve.

[steveny]

Hi there

It may be of interest to know that my wifes new XC90 is a 2.4D, not the new D5 - i.e. its the "old" Euro III 163bhp engine which used to be badged the D5. Its also got the "old" 5-speed geartronic box.

Been driving it around again today with four people on board and no delay in getting the power down from rest. I have owned an S60 2.4T SE geartronic myself for 2 years now, and I have found the acceleration in the XC90 to be pretty much as good as can be expected given the extra weight and diesel engine.

This made me think that something has either been changed, or that the problem may not affect all cars?

Regards, Steven

PS Do any other owners experience a kind of "boomy" noise (best way I can describe it!) just at the point the engine goes under load, e.g. pulling away uphill, or is it something I need to bring up at the 3 month quality inspection?

[StevePritchard]

Interesting - so you are saying that your wife's new XC90 is identical (engine/transmission-wise) to my 04 model but doesn't suffer the issue?

One way to test if there is a lag issue is to simply floor the throttle from a standing start - start to count. If you creep away during "1 - 2" and then feel a rush of power on about 3ish, then you've got the problem. It seems to be at about 2000rpm that I get a decent getaway. If you are pulling out/across traffic then you normally get the rush of power as you are trying to straighten up.

My performance box generates the same torque at about 1400rpm as the standard at 2000rpm, so I'm hoping that it will minimise the lag.

Cheers,

Steve.

PS. No boomy noise coming from my XC90...

[StevePritchard]

Just for the record, the Volvo dealer wrote on the job sheet that they updated the software and tested ok. I would say that there IS a marginal improvement. The power seems to be more evenly spread, and is slightly less "whooshy" a couple of seconds in.

Having said that, it's not a massive difference, and it's still a bit pedestrian for pulling out/across traffic. I'll let you know how the PBox affects its behaviour.

Cheers,

Steve.

[JBinding]

Yeah...Bang on description Steve... the point at which you reach 2000 revs and woosh away you go....but up until that point it's scary....and genearlly if you're pulling away to the right or left then you tend to over-steer.

Let me know how the Pbox works out.

StephenY - I have no boomy noise either to report

Cheers guys

[5lab]

just a thought, would holding your foot on the brake and applying the accllerator 1 sec earlier work? with a torque converter (if thats how your autobox works), this would allow the revs to rise enough to get into the powerband, before you actually start moving..

[StevePritchard]

Ok, I said I would come back after I had tried out my PBox, so here I am.

The PBox takes my D5 from the stock 163bhp to 196bhp, and that's most obvious under acceleration - the 20% increase in power is evident, so it delivers on that front, no problem.

As far as the acceleration problem is concerned, it's a whole lot better - there's still a small lag (as you would expect from an auto, I guess) but then the pick up is much, much better, and much smoother. So basically, it's fixed.

I purchased mine from a friend who is a performance upgrade dealer - here's a link to his web page - http://www.pragmatikict.co.uk/steinbauer.cms.

The unit was easy to fit, and he'll have pictures of my installation up there shortly.

Cheers,

Steve.

[tj101c70]

Good news,, knew it would improve things, all these boxes do the same sort of thing,,mine has now been on my 4th XC90, would not be without it,,certainly when you then drive one without, it is quite noticeable, even more so when towing the horsebox,or rangie bobtail

Regards Tim

TJ101 04 V70R AWD (Flash-Man)
05 XC90 D5SE(Ruby-Geartronic)

[ojock]

>Ok, I said I would come back after I had tried out my PBox,
>so here I am.
>
>The PBox takes my D5 from the stock 163bhp to 196bhp, and
>that's most obvious under acceleration - the 20% increase in
>power is evident, so it delivers on that front, no problem.
>
>As far as the acceleration problem is concerned, it's a whole
>lot better - there's still a small lag (as you would expect
>from an auto, I guess) but then the pick up is much, much
>better, and much smoother. So basically, it's fixed.
>
>I purchased mine from a friend who is a performance upgrade
>dealer - here's a link to his web page -
>http://www.pragmatikict.co.uk/steinbauer.cms.
>
>The unit was easy to fit, and he'll have pictures of my
>installation up there shortly.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Steve.

Steve,

Do you experience any of the problems like those described here for other tuning boxes ?

http://volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6725

Cheers

[StevePritchard]

I wouldn't say I do experience any of the problems listed on that other thread. There's certainly no "on/off" type of harshness with the PBox. Apart from the increase in power when accelerating noticeable as more push in your back, I would say I've noticed the following behaviours that differ from the stock setup:

- Standing start lag eliminated. Apart from a very short delay upon pressing the throttle, the lag is gone - yesterday I pulled out into traffic and got up to 30mph in no time, if I had tried that last week before fitting the PBox, I suspect I would have got flashed at, if not beeped at.

- Cruise control resume is more refined. I found that pre-PBox that sometimes the cruise control resume was a little over-eager. If I had it set at 80mph, and had dropped to 60mph in traffic, then hit resume, then it dropped gears and behaved as if I'd floored it to get back to 80mph. I've noticed a more refined resume with the PBox as I guess it feels it doesn't have to drop a gear (or two) in order to get back up to the required speed in a suitable amount of time.

- Fuel consumption unchanged. In a rather short testing period, my average fuel consumption according to the onboard computer is down by 0.1mpg. It was 29.4 and is now 29.3 - having said that, I've only done my usual 60 mile round trip on the motorway to work a couple of times in that time, and I think that pulls the mpg up.

My feeling is that the PBox makes me think that my XC90 is well balanced, whereas before, I could have levied the criticism that it felt a little underpowered and heavy.

Cheers,

Steve.

[tj101c70]

Steve has it about spot on, the other thread did suprise me,,did have a V70 D5 with a ecu reprogram, hard to compare to the XC, but did not feel greatly better than the Box

>I wouldn't say I do experience any of the problems listed on
>that other thread. There's certainly no "on/off"
>type of harshness with the PBox. Apart from the increase in
>power when accelerating noticeable as more push in your back,
>I would say I've noticed the following behaviours that differ
>from the stock setup:

Have ran a psi box since my first XC, in jan 03 had that one for 6-8 months before selling, and 12k miles, then came off that one, and fitted to 3 more XC90's never any "on/off" feeling

>

>
>- Cruise control resume is more refined. I found that
>pre-PBox that sometimes the cruise control resume was a little
>over-eager. If I had it set at 80mph, and had dropped to
>60mph in traffic, then hit resume, then it dropped gears and
>behaved as if I'd floored it to get back to 80mph. I've
>noticed a more refined resume with the PBox as I guess it
>feels it doesn't have to drop a gear (or two) in order to get
>back up to the required speed in a suitable amount of time.
>

same again here,, the extra torque, saves the box having to go down a gear, i notice more on fast sweeping a road, she pulls top much better

>My feeling is that the PBox makes me think that my XC90 is
>well balanced, whereas before, I could have levied the
>criticism that it felt a little underpowered and heavy.

re consumption,, never seam to do many trips the same, and the box's have only been fitted after the run in 1000 mile or so, so hard to tell,, gut feeling is no worse

Regards Tim



TJ101 04 V70R AWD (Flash-Man)
05 XC90 D5SE(Ruby-Geartronic)

[ojock]

Steve,

Is it really a five minute job to fit the unit ? Even for a numpty like me who can't tell his big-end from his own?

Also, can it be removed without trace, eg. before servicing ?

[StevePritchard]

I fitted it in under an hour, and it was raining, and I was taking pictures. It's really easy to fit:

1. Take off the plastic engine cover (just pull it).

2. Unplug each injector in turn, and plug it into the socket on the cable, and plug the plug on the cable into the injector. (there's 5 of them)

3. This is the tricky(est) bit. You need to provide power to the PBox - I simply connected the -ve to one of the three cables bolted to the bodywork on the right wing. The +ve simply connects to the +ve feed next to the fuse box - that was the tricky bit for me as I didn't have a long enough socket to unscrew the nut. I had to take the lid off the fuse box, and squeeze a spanner in there.

4. Find a home for the PBox (I put mine on top of the airbox) and attach it somehow (I used sticky pads).

5. Plug it in and go.

Easy.

Cheers,

Steve.

[ojock]

Cheers Steve. And it can be removed without trace before servicing,etc?

[StevePritchard]

Sorry, meant to include that...

Yes, it can be removed without a trace (although, that obviously depends upon how you attach the PBox unit to the car - if I pulled mine off, I guess the sticky pads could leave a residue, and obviously it would leave holes if you chose to screw it to something).

The other thing that might be worth mentioning (which helped to sway me) is that the PBox comes with a sort of top-up warranty, in addition to the warranty for the box itself. So if Volvo refuse to replace a warranty item due to the fact that they state that you've had the PBox connected, then Steinbauer will pick up the shortfall.

Cheers,

Steve.

[mikeluke]

I have to say that I agree with Steve's analysis and summary of the difference that a tuning box makes - it transforms the engine and the car. Fitting is easier if you have small hands as can be a little bit of a fiddle but this is due to space constraints rather than technically challenging.

Back on topic of acceleration lag - when I first test drove an XC90 my feeling was that the car just does not have enough power (at least with 163BHP) to cope with the weight. Really it needs a 3.0 litre engine.

[mikeluke]

Just caught up with the thread - my box sounds like it was even easier to fit than Steve's. Simply unplug connector on end of common rail - plug in the cable for the box - run the cable out of the way - I used cable ties - plug in the tuning box. End of story - only trouble I had was getting the plug the right way round - sounds crazy but it took me 2 hours to figure out that the "right" way was in fact the "wrong" way - I reckon that you could have done the whole job inside 15 mins.

[ojock]

Mike,

Any more info on the box you have, where from, prices, etc?

[mikeluke]

I bought mine on eBay from this guy.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Volvo-40-60-70-80-90-ASA-CR-Tuning-Box-25-PS_W0QQitemZ8009385317QQcategoryZ72662QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem

He also has a web site http://www.autotechnik-saretz.de/

eBay was cheaper!

You need a tuning box plus the Bosch cable - mine was Euro 79 plus Euro 39 for the cable adapter and Euro 10 postage - delivery was fast and the guy was really helpful. I think that it worked out to a tad under £90 all in. Tuning box has a 1 year warranty - I emailed him (in English) with a few questions beforehand and he responded quickly - would recommend him.

Regards

[ojock]

Mike, that's a great price for the kit compared to approx £400 for the kit Steve above has fitted.

If you're happy with it and haven't encountered any other issues, I may well go for that one instead.

[StevePritchard]

I had seen that one too, and it does look to be a great price. I was just a bit put off by the lack of engine warranty. After just having a number of days-worth of work done under warranty, I wasn't prepared to lose my warranty so I'd have to cover those costs myself.

I notice that their "High End" tuning boxes are in the same ball-park, pricewise, as the Steinbauer unit.

Cheers,

Steve.

[siggi757]

I have an automatic 2005 model XC90 D5.

The acceleration is OK for such a big car but I have this same annoying problem with the automatic transmission.

When, for example, I stop at a red light it is very obvious that the transmission switches from Drive to Neutral after the car comes to a complete stop and I hold down the brake pedal for more than 1 or 2 seconds.

In theory the car should switch from N to D when I release the brake pedal. Sometimes it happens flawlessly but all to often the transmission take 1 to 2 seconds to switch to Drive. I guess it only takes me about a third of a second to move my foot from the brake pedal to the gas pedal.

The resulting "KLUNK" sound and the car lurching is extremely annoying and you would think that it is not very healthy for the car.

I've read on the internet that this "feature", which is supposed to reduce the wear and tear of the gearbox, can be turned off by the dealer by the hooking the car up to a computer. Can anyone confirm that this problem has been fixed on their car.

I have an appointment for my XC90 with the dealer in about a month from now (not the fastest service). I tried to describe the problem on the phone but it seems the technician was not familiar with the problem.

[TRR]

Having looked through this thread i'm keen to see if there is a 'definitive' answer to this topic.

I get the same lag on my 2006 185 D5 SE auto and the car often leaves me standing for longer than planned at junctions and traffic lights. (which is not a very nice experience)

Before talking to the dealer any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Tim

[patl]

Hi Tim,

That seems strange ... my 2006 D5 185 SE is OK off the line. It doesn't have any lag. I thought I read that the gearbox learns from you driving style and I certainly am heavy footed with mine. I thought about the RICA tune to take it up to 228 bhp, but for the £490 I don't really think I need it (if petrol was cheaper I would have the V8). If I hold it on the brake with my left foot I can wheelspin it off the lights if I really want to ... not bad for a heavy diesel 4x4. If your 185 seems bad, ask the dealer to try a demonstrator to see if there is a problem with yours.

Regards,
Patrick.

[TRR]

Patrick

Thanks for your feedback - maybe I should be more brutal with it - the characteristic is similar to those mentioned in earlier postings, you get the lag from a standing start ie. foot on brake then onto accelerator - but no problem when starting with foot already on gas and presumably gearbox fully engaged.

Either way its going to the dealers.. mind you an extra 43bhp does sound tempting.

Regards

Tim

[siggi757]

Got my 2005 XC90 D5 (164bhp) today after being serviced at the dealership.

The problem with the automatic transmission, that I mentioned in my previous post here above, seems to be completely fixed.

The funny thing is that I hadn't realized how carefully I was treating the autobox until I got the car back and starting to test how the autobox was behaving. Seems that this transmission didn't adjust to my driving style... rather it was me that adjusted to the transmission.

The dealer had the software for the transmission updated (his words) and he changed the transmission fluid which he said looked really bad. All done under warranty as well as silencing some squeeky panels that were driving me crazy.

The technician I spoke with said this transmission never had the "free-gear" option (switching automaticly from D to N when stopping at red light and back to D when releasing the brake). I find that hard to believe as this was exactly what the car was doing even though it was doing it rather badly.

I am happy to say it runs fine now.

Cheers,
Siggi

[RoscoMac]

I am also thinking of buying an XC90, but can only afford an earlier 163bhp and a bit concerned about slow take off. I am thinking of trying to get a manual gearbox version as they are quicker & more economical. Bit worried about the clutch lifespan though, when trying to move 2tons+ of xc90 about. Anyone know of life expectancy of clutch in xc90??

Cheers

R.

[RoyMacDonald]

I am also thinking of buying an XC90, but can only afford an earlier 163bhp and a bit concerned about slow take off. I am thinking of trying to get a manual gearbox version as they are quicker & more economical. Bit worried about the clutch lifespan though, when trying to move 2tons+ of xc90 about. Anyone know of life expectancy of clutch in xc90??

Cheers

R.

I wouldn't worry about the auto. I have a 2003 one and I've never understood what the slow take off debate is about as it takes off just as quickly as anything else. OK it does rev more that a lighter car, or one with a bigger engine would, but nothing that has ever caused me any concern. It's a very capable overtaker as well.

Volvos's usually have very robust clutches in my experience but I haven't had a manual since 1995. The 245 weighed almost 2 tons and I never had to replace the clutch.

Roy

[AB-UK]

If your car doesn't suffer from this widely reported delay, you are fortunate.
I would also consider a chip or a box as it seems quite a few people report satisfactory improvement.

However, no-one has reported what their insurance companies say about these improvements!

By how much are premiums increased?

[RoyMacDonald]

If your car doesn't suffer from this widely reported delay, you are fortunate.
I would also consider a chip or a box as it seems quite a few people report satisfactory improvement.

However, no-one has reported what their insurance companies say about these improvements!

By how much are premiums increased?

AB-UK do you have an XC90 and if so which one and does it have lag?

Roy

[AB-UK]

Roy,
Yes - I have the 163hp D5 Geartronic. I really like the car - although having driven a Grand Cherokee I wish the Volvo had the big Jeep's 3 litre diesel - no delay at take off at all, despite it being an auto box too.
I wrote to Volvo concerning the delay, and they responded that everything was working within their design parameters - a non-committal response, implying they knew there would be a problem, but are not going to do anything about it.
However, a short while later they announced the newer XC90 with more hp, which I believe may have decreased the delay a little - so a shortfall in power was at least obliquely recognised by Volvo.

I wrote to my insurance company at the time, telling them that I was considering a chip (RICA) upgrade which should eliminate this "dangerous" delay, and asking if there would be an increase in my insurance premium.
The insurance company did not reply.

This is why I am interested in what the insurance companies of all these people who have already chipped their cars have to say.

[RoyMacDonald]

Roy,
Yes - I have the 163hp D5 Geartronic. I really like the car - although having driven a Grand Cherokee I wish the Volvo had the big Jeep's 3 litre diesel - no delay at take off at all, despite it being an auto box too.
I wrote to Volvo concerning the delay, and they responded that everything was working within their design parameters - a non-committal response, implying they knew there would be a problem, but are not going to do anything about it.
However, a short while later they announced the newer XC90 with more hp, which I believe may have decreased the delay a little - so a shortfall in power was at least obliquely recognised by Volvo.

What puzzles me is how lack of power can cause a delay. Slow acceleration yes, but a delay? I wonder if it's somthing to do with all the flexible bushes the engine is mounted on. It's difficult for me to comment because I can't detect the delay on my car.

Roy

[AB-UK]

Roy,
You have a good point there, and as I know nothing about these "bushes" I can't comment.
As a mere driver (rather than a mechanic) I guess the problem probably lies with the clutch/gearrbox mechanism, which may require a certain level of power/torque before engaging and launching the car forward.
Perhaps this is why an overall increase in the power apparently decreases the delay, as the required torque might be being delivered more quickly.

[RoyMacDonald]

Roy,
You have a good point there, and as I know nothing about these "bushes" I can't comment.
As a mere driver (rather than a mechanic) I guess the problem probably lies with the clutch/gearrbox mechanism, which may require a certain level of power/torque before engaging and launching the car forward.
Perhaps this is why an overall increase in the power apparently decreases the delay, as the required torque might be being delivered more quickly.


The thing is my car is always pulling in the usual way autos have and I need to hold the brake on to stop it moving off.

The reason I sugest the bushes it because it is a popular performance enhancement to replace the bushes and turn the top mount into a strut bar to improve response by the guys who want to extract the most performance from their Volvo.

Personally I prefer the comfort of a well insulated engine and I just compensate for the bushes loading up.

Roy

[GSMGuy]

My car, although "chipped" still exhibits a little delay, I was made MUCH more aware of this recently when taking it to Rybrook in Warrington to have the stereo repaired, obviously, having removed the tuning box....

For those of you that aren't familiar with Warrington, there are several BUSY roundabouts on the main drag through it - and I really noticed the delay - Roy, not so much of a waiting for bushes to load up, but a perceptible delay between pressing the accelerator, and the car moving - don't think it's a lack of power, more a calibration issue....


Mike

[RoyMacDonald]

Mike....I think I'll have to get someone with a car that has the delay to take me for a ride so I can experience it for myself.

I had a 1997 S40 2 liter petrol courtesy car while my XC90 was being serviced and that seemed to have a delay because I had to move the throttle so far compared to the XC90. I guess it has a physical throttle rather than the electonic one that's on most cars now, and the XC90 of course. the S40 seemed very crude compared to the XC I must say. Still it's a lot more money so it's to be expected I guess.

Roy

[oilburner]

However, no-one has reported what their insurance companies say about these improvements!

By how much are premiums increased?

Insurance companies (non-performance specialists at least) usually increase the premium on the basis of how large the increase in power is, percentage wise.

There is a banded scale they use, and adjust the premiums by a set percentage depending on which band your increase fits in.

Now this is the important point. Some tuning products claim to increase from an official 163, to an official 187, others all the way to 210bhp.
The 210 tune would be a 29% increase, which is one of the very highest bandings, so I would stick with a 187 for this reason. Especially since on the dyno the true result tends to be an increase from an original 176 to a new max of 199, but the product only claims 187, which is the number you need to declare to the insurance company - dyno results are not required.

See http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/volvod5.pdf or the BSR site for examples like this.

I believe that the so-called 204 tuning is little different from the BSR or Superchips 187 tuning on this basis, apart from the insurance implications. An increase to 187 is only 14%, a much lower banding.

BTW, if you're after a specific figure, my insurance increased from about £400 to £600 when I had the V70 2.4 RICA'd from 140 to 180 bhp, a 28% increase in power. i.e. a high banding could increase your premium by 50% or so.

[AB-UK]

OB,
Thanks for the response - I have a suspicion no-one else who has chipped their cars has actually told their insurance companies - otherwise they would have responded too surely!
At least I now have a ball-park figure to go by when I ask my insurance company for a quote.
Cheers,
Andrew

[oilburner]

Don't forget that there are also specialists out there like Adrian Flux, Chris Knott & Greenlight who will be much more forgiving of modifications, even to the point of requiring your car to be modified (Greenlight)!!

I think you're right most people seemingly don't declare, that's a risk I wouldn't like to take myself.

[RoyMacDonald]

My car, although "chipped" still exhibits a little delay, I was made MUCH more aware of this recently when taking it to Rybrook in Warrington to have the stereo repaired, obviously, having removed the tuning box....

For those of you that aren't familiar with Warrington, there are several BUSY roundabouts on the main drag through it - and I really noticed the delay - Roy, not so much of a waiting for bushes to load up, but a perceptible delay between pressing the accelerator, and the car moving - don't think it's a lack of power, more a calibration issue....


Mike

Mike I just came across this magazine article which blames the turbo for the lag.....

http://dieselcar.v1.myvirtualpaper.com/magazine/2007080801/

Not so sure myself becuse why dosn't everyones car suffer from it. I've also heard other VOC members eith different models blame the Geartronic autobox.

Roy

[AB-UK]

At last - I have an answer.
The RICA chip upgrade would require me to pay an additional £101, approx 44% increase on my current premium.
This is for an 11-25% increase in hp.
I was told that this sum is not a fixed amount, but depends on the policy-holder's individual circumstances, so this is what I would have to pay.

In another forum I read about someone who had their Volvo dealer eliminate this lag by tweaking the ECU - my dealer is looking into this at the moment.
Fingers crossed!

[AB-UK]

Sorry - message appeared twice.
Can't seem to delete it - only edit it, hence this apology.
AB

[SED5]

We have had our 2005 XC90 just over 3months now and at first was concerned about the "lag" when pulling off ....this has improved when we had our's serviced and Volvo updated the software .....but both my wife and I accept that this is a characteristic of the car and we both drive around this, and it doesn't cause us any problem or spoil our enjoyment of the car ........

[AB-UK]

Got the "Tweak" information from my dealer :-
"With regards to the question about the software to deselect the neutral when pulling off in your XC90, We have received confirmation of a software upgrade that will achieve this.
We will need the car for approx 1 hour and the cost will be £67.23 inc vat."

This is apparently to "stop the gearbox from selecting a false neutral" which speeds up selection of first gear so that the car will set off quicker - apparently.
Perhaps this is what SED5 had done to his car?

Can anyone technical offer confirmation of this?
Regards.
AB

[cleethorpes]

Has anyone used the spider tuning system? seems it has multimaps for power and enconomy

[R-P]

Sorry, if this is dragging up a thread from the dead, but I finally found some confirmation that I am not imagining things!
My unanswered earlier question on the subject. (http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=71445)

I have this problem (V70 AWD D5 geartronic Jan 2004) and a Volvo guy who drove it said it's normal. The guys at Rica drove it and they didn't find it strange either. (Won't be doing any tuning unless I get everything that's wrong with it fixed first, like this issue. Fixed meaning "actually fixed" OR at least knowing what is causing certain issues.)

How can flooring your car into a junction with a dangerous lack of acceleration taking place, be normal?
And once you have turned into it, the ~1800rpm is reached and it shoots forward.

So to summarize:
New software will change it a little.
Rica or powerbox tuning will also change it a little.

For me I have always blamed the power/torque. It doesn't feel like it overrevs, which I would expect an auto-box to do when flooring it.
I will still look at cleaning the plenum chamber (but since the engine was replaced some 10k ago, I would expect this to be fairly clean) and will look for splits in the turbo/high-pressure tubes and the intercooler.

Thanks for your work on the subject so far!!!

Regards,
R-P

[R-P]

Two things:

Cleaned the plenum chamber, but there wasn't too much soot in it.
No noticeable difference. I does make me wonder what that much oil is doing in an air-inlet system. And seeing the junk-build-up in the plenum was hard and dry, and the soot in the elbow-joint where it mixes is wet and oily, I assume it's from the inletchannel, not from the recycled exhaustgas/turbo-ouput. So where DOES this oil come from?

As for the slow acceleration: did two tests: put it in "W" Wintergear. There is simply no difference below 2k. Above it, the acceleration is noticeably slower with the "W" setting on, but below 2k, there's no difference as far as I can tell.
Test two: involuntary: parked the car with the rear wheels against a curb and after visiting someone (so engine cooled), had to drive off in reverse (so the tire had to climb the 5" curb). It didn't want to. I had serious doubts I even had enough power to get away from there, pressing the accelerator further and further without anything happening, when it reluctantly lifted its boot over the curb and I could get out of the parkingspace. Not funny.

Been looking for cheap tuningboxes on ebay to see if they will make a difference, but it's hard to tell the 'resistor' version from the real thing.

I am not willing to put serious money in this car unless I know it is worth it (replacing the engine was enough of a set-back). So the wanted Rica-tune has to wait until I know it is not money down the drain.

[AB-UK]

R-P,
Have you checked that you still have 4-wheel drive?
There has been much discussion in this forum concerning XC90s which are now only front-wheel drive as a result of mechanical failure of one sort or another. Maybe this is the cause of your curb-mounting dificulty.

[R-P]

R-P,
Have you checked that you still have 4-wheel drive?

I'm kind of afraid to do this... Since buying it I've had >4000€ in costs on the thing. If it turns out the AWD doesn't work, I could have had a similar V70 for 3.5 grand less (and probably not have needed the engine and steeringcolumn replacement of >4 grand, so have saved myself close to 8k€).
I'd rather be ignorant... :loser:

There has been much discussion in this forum concerning XC90s which are now only front-wheel drive as a result of mechanical failure of one sort or another. Maybe this is the cause of your curb-mounting dificulty.

After you posting this, I had a read through some other XC90 posts. And in the XC90 community it seems a totally accepted fact of life that the computer is PROGRAMMED to limit power to save the auto-box. This is mentioned over and over and over again.
:err:

[AndyRaps]

I have read through this entire thread going back 4 years and was interested to discover that the solution to the lag problem would appear to be a software update to disable the false neutral selection. I recently reported the lag problem to my local Volvo specialist when mine was in for a service (86K miles - up to now I just accepted the lag as a 'feature' of being underpowered!). The 'specialist' told me that it was a common known problem caused by a faulty Turbo Nozzle Valve and when I researched it on the internet I found many references to the Turbo Control Valve(same thing?) being responsible for similar symptoms. I haven't paid the £150 to get the nozzle/valve replaced yet - does anyone have any experiences to share?

Thanks.

[AB-UK]

I paid my dealer for the software adjustment related to the "false neutral" condition. They told me it "might" help with the delay issue, and also it might improve starting off on a hill (?)
Before forking out the £65 or so, the dealer warned me that:-
a. Some customers had not noticed any difference; and
b. The process was irreversible.

I paid my money, had the software adjustment (so they say) and I could detect no difference in the way the car takes off at junctions or on hills.

I think the problem lies in the design of the autobox itself - it would be nice to compare it with the Grand Cherokee's autobox as that car (equal in size and weight to the XC90) didn't experience the same delay problem when I drove it.
The Jeep does have a 3.0l diesel though.

[Winnybob]

I have read through this entire thread going back 4 years and was interested to discover that the solution to the lag problem would appear to be a software update to disable the false neutral selection. I recently reported the lag problem to my local Volvo specialist when mine was in for a service (86K miles - up to now I just accepted the lag as a 'feature' of being underpowered!). The 'specialist' told me that it was a common known problem caused by a faulty Turbo Nozzle Valve and when I researched it on the internet I found many references to the Turbo Control Valve(same thing?) being responsible for similar symptoms. I haven't paid the £150 to get the nozzle/valve replaced yet - does anyone have any experiences to share?

Thanks.

I've just done the same as you and read all the post through to here.. I Have a S60 D5 geartronic (04)
I have severe take off problems when the engines cold. Foot to the floor and nothing. If I rev it alittle and warm it up for a minute before I set off, it responds much better but still with alot of lag. (It has changed my driving style)
Once up to temp it's runs ok and pulls just about. My fuel economy is down(23mpg - comp.) (brim to brim 520miles) and there very little torque.

But once I'm on the motorway it cruises great. I'm hoping it's that little Turbo Nozzle valve. (I can fix that myself) but I may need to take it in for a software check up too. I'm also getting High Emmissions poping up now and again. I guess this sounds bad because the car runs okish just not good. Any advice on a good dealer to take it to in the lancashire(Burnley) or manchester?

If you get any joy changing out the nozzle valve please report it.. I can't get to mine for another week or so.

Cheers
Bob

[R-P]

I've replaced my (leaking) turbo nozzle valve and it makes absolutely no difference.
Obviously I cannot speak for others, but I am very disappointed: I found a real issue and setting it right solved nothing :(

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9734/tearinturbogovernormemb.jpg

(The whole (very long and continuing) story here (http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=71445).)