Volvo Car UK Policy on ETM Replacement

[Wardair]

Dear Forum member,

Having seen many threads posted regarding the ETM failures I felt it would be appropriate to request some data regarding how this is being managed by Volvo Car UK and their dealer network.

I would therefore like all forum members who have had their ETM replaced to submit a short post to register this giving date and what if any contribution Volvo Car UK offered towards the cost of replacement. Actual costs incurred would also be useful to assertain if pricing policy has changed.

Please also provide basic car data as follows:-

Model, Mileage, Service History and length of ownership.

I intend to collate this data and if as I suspect it shows that Volvo Car UK have been somewhat evasive on this issue (allowing some customers to pay in full for replacement if they are unaware of the issue or not made a fuss) or actually have a policy that results in customers being treated in an inconsistent manner then I will submit the data to BBC Watchdog in an effort to get the matter raised again and everyone treated fairly.

Please advise any other forum members who you know have had an ETM failure.

Many thanks

Wardair

[savanaman]

Hi

I applaude you for your efforts but you will get no where.


This has been an ongoing problem for years but Volvo are avoidint the issue like the plague.

The laws in th US are different and thats why they capitulated there but here you might if your lucky get a a good will gesture but only if you have a car under 6 years old and less then 80,000 miles.

No third party can fix it , there is no solution available and no amount of posts on here discussing it make an iota of difference.


I felt strongly myself about it but Volvo won't do anything at all about it and there is no one else who can fix it. Well not strickly true but the cost is actually more than at a dealership.

What we need is a list of the cheapest dealership deals available so at least we can get it fixed as cheaply as possible.

[timh30]

Personally I think this is a good idea. If we can present the problem as a large group rather than individually, hopefully people wont get fobbed off that they are the only one experiencing the issue - which tends to be the case at the moment.

As they say - United we stand, divided we fall......

P.S. My ETM hasn't yet failed so can't offer any details. When I purchased the car in July I called Volvo and they told me it had been replaced last December. In fact it had only been cleaned ! - so I'm on borrowed time at the moment and will be contacting Volvo UK expressing my concern at how the dealership blatantly lied to me.

[Wardair]

I understand you fully savanaman but I also think like timh30 that a collective approach may yield some improvement in Volvo UK's approachon this matter.

If I get sufficient data I am prepared to raise the flag very high. Based on my own experiences alone I will be writing to Volvo Car UK's Managing Director and if that does not gain a proper response and I get a big response from the forum then I may even place something in the national press.

If as I suspect, Volvo Car UK are actually trying to cover this problem up for financial reasons and god forbid, there is a serious accident (my wife had a pretty nasty experience) the Volvo Car UK Directors could be facing serious charges.

Lets see how many forum members respond.

Ever hopeful

Wardair

[V70driver]

Like the idea and I for one will be happy to give my backing.
I have only had my V70 2.4 classic since June, bought it from a car dealer and immediately had my local main dealer check it over. All clear was the reply. I mentioned the situation of the ETM to which the response was don't worry about it, the threads on this forum was rubbish. I then phoned Volvo UK and spoke to their customer service bod, Mike I think, who said he had been inundated with calls about this. In the end he promissed me a letter to take to my local main dealer to have my ETM looked at and changed as appropriate which ever is the required free of charge. Despite numerous calls since, I have not received said letter. My car at the moment is running beautifly, so I am happy for them not to touch it. If it 'aint broke, leave it alone.
Let me know how you get on.
Regards
V70 driver

[savanaman]

This has already been raised on watchdog some time ago.

Outcome... Volvo might give you a good will gesture payment... nothing more!

Trading standards wont take it any further becuase it is not a safety issue (as far as they are concerned).

There has been no recall again due not being a safety related matter. Now you can argue as to whether you thnk it is a safety matter but it's all academic since they have already decided its not.

So would Volvo be fincially hit by an large add in the paper that their has been a fualt with older models?

No because they make their money on newre models which don't have the problem anymore.

Writng to the "Boss" of Volvo is a waste of time because, they dont read the mail anyway and the Customer services team are fully briefed and read from a script regarding the issue.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see them fix this but there is no reward for them to do so.... do you know anyone who says " I'm not going to buy a new volvo because of this old problem"? Any companys saying that?

Also a class action won't work as it did in the States becuse the consumer laws are srtonger over there and also becuse they sell a alot more Volvos there than they do in the UK.

You would have to prove that this fault is likely to cause a failure so severe that complete loss of control is likley.

The other argument that the module is "not fit for use" sounds a good one too me but Trading Standards did not agree. Give them a call they have investigated this previousley.

I am hoping someone will have another idea but it would have to pretty big as getting the story on watchdog didn't do anything.

[addyman]

If you never fight for something you will never win anything......

I had mine replaced...add me to the list and it is a worthwhile cause i feel....

It doent take long to go "yes i had mine done......add me "

[SIAMBLUE]

I too think it would be a good idea to at least make a register to see how many people have had the ETM replaced and what car make and model, and at what mileage,
also i would like to add those ETM's that have been cleaned, as no doubt these have symtoms of the ETM starting to play up, as i know mine was cleaned at 80k miles,

Gary.

[Wardair]

Thank you for your inputs so far.

One issue that I am still unclear on is related to Safety. If as we all know there is a design issue with the ETM that results in sudden and unpredictable failure of such a key operational device, would it not be proper for Volvo to issue a warning notice to all users?

I have asked for a written explanation of the ETM failure mode(s) (in order to reassure my wife that the car is safe to drive) and been advised there is no documentation they can provide to me on this.

Keep the inputs coming. I will produce a summary in due course.

Wardair

[savanaman]

Hi

If anyone has had it replaced could you tell us where and how much it cost you?

[Wardair]

Poll Results: Concerning 1999-2001 Volvo ETM

(ref: http://v70xc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6106 )

Never had ETM failure - 60,000- 100,000 miles 9 (20.93%)
Never had ETM failure - 10,000- 60,000 miles 9 (20.93%)
Had one ETM failure 21 (48.84%)
Had more than one ETM failure 6 (13.95%)
Had failure, but TB cleaning solved problem 4 (9.30%)
Did failure case dangerous engine stall and loss of steering or control 6 (13.95%)
Did failure cause Safe "Limp" mode 14 (32.56%)
Did your ETM failure occur in California 4 (9.30%)
Did your ETM failure occur in the USA (excluding Calif) 19 (44.19%)
Did your ETM failure occur outside the USA (rest of World) 5 (11.63%)

This is the type of report that I would like to produce for the UK.

Regarding costs the list price I have for the ETM is £381.50 + vat. Labour will be over £100 + vat so total cost is around £600.

Wardair

[ollieoxford]

My first one went around 69K miles, 2 weeks after purchase from (non Volvo) 2nd hand dealer, and after much agro got it replaced under warrenty.

My second one went around 76K miles, 9 months later. Gave up with my original 2nd hand dealer, got the details of the replacement from the Volvo dealer directly. Motorworld Wantage Oxfordshire with those details replaced the second ETM under warranty.

Therefore currently fortunate - no direct cost. (Other than a couple of trips between Warwick and Oxford).

But I was told that the warranty on the replacement part would only be for the balance of the original replacement part (i.e. only 3 months). So, I'm concerned that in another 4 or 5 months of driving, I will have to fork out £600 odd to replace it with my forth one.

I can't prove it, but it would appear that the software changes introduced make the unit fail-safe now (i.e. not intermittedly, and will not switch to limp mode in the fast lane)

[addyman]

Hi

If anyone has had it replaced could you tell us where and how much it cost you?

£580 main Volvo dealer in Basingstoke, done under warrenty......

Adrian

[kevham]

Best of luck with this new battle, Wardair.
I tried and failed to get anywhere with my dealer and Volvo UK.
I had a 2000 V70 2.4 (170) which I bought as a Volvo Select Used car at 2 years/30,000 miles. The ETM played up from around 40,000miles until it became virtually impossible to start at around 70,000miles. The ETM was cleaned by the Volvo dealer at the begining of the year (they charged me about £30) and Volvo UK promised a software upgrade. I made several requests for Volvo UK to even admit to there being a problem but gor nowhere. I waited months and heard nothing more (despite trying to contact Volvo UK). I finally gave in and sold my V70 in May. About 4 weeks later I received a letter from Volvo UK asking me to take the car to my dealer for the software upgrade!!!

Anyway, good luck with your campaign.

[savanaman]

Wardair,

Try this, say you had 1500 people who have had ETM problems, phone Volvo customer service and tell them.

Honestly try it, you will then get a taste of what they intend to do about it.

I applaude your efforts but not sure how you will proceed with the data.

We all know there is a problem with the ETM and so do Volvo already. I think we can take it as read that many many many of us have had a problem, but armed with this knowledge how can we then go forward?

[Wardair]

Savanaman,

I fully support your assertion that Volvo intend to do little or nothing about this problem. This is evident from their actions and response so far. Their inaction and lack of correspondence to customers on the matter is actually supporting this approach, as it is very difficult to put a case together without information.

You state there are many many many people who have/are affected by this problem, but when I first visited this forum I noticed that the posts on the problem were under many different threads. There was no one place to visit to get a summary of cases and a list of related sites such as vexedvolvo. http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/index.html

The vexed volvo and volvoxc websites in the US, where people like Don Willson have pulled together a lot of information on the subject into one place help people understand the issue and register their problem. If I can get enough responses I will start a similar UK based website on this issue and start building an information database.

If as you state I find that I am wasting my time and will get nowhere or if forum members really don't care then I will swallow my pride and disappear from the forum.

If as I hope many people feel, that Volvo (a company that I have applauded, promoted and supported for 10 years with 3 vehicles from new), have not acted properly on this matter. Then I will put time and effort (and if necessary money) to fight for a fair treatment for UK Volvo owners.

It is not the money, it is a matter of principal. I consider this is corporate malpractice by a company that I once held in high regard and I feel that rather than walk away I should make sure it does not go unnoticed.

Wardair

[SIAMBLUE]

Hi Just been sifting through my service history,
The first time it was reported as a problem was at 60478 miles 13/01/04, and at the service interval all it said was surging at idle, poss throttle bosy clean 1.5hrs,
The next report was at 82151 19/09/2005 work carried out remove and clean and refit throttle body with new gasket £82.50 + vat.
Vadis Vida diagnostic charge £27.50 + vat,

so tomorrow i am going to phone Volvo and see where i stand, as my car looks like it hasn't had the new software fitted, as when i first had the car, it was so slow i nearly sold it after a fortnight, it was only after i got it mapped and learnt to drive a auto i began to like the car,

Gary,

[Zota]

In Australia Volvo are still denying that it is a problem.
They do not have new ETMs for replacement. They say they are reconditioned but I will bet my whatever they have not replaced the carbon track.
I very much doubt they have the plant available to do it.
It is a real manufacturing process. I would suggest also in the UK they are just giving you cleaned ETMs. However I understand the cleaning is just to clean the interal body has nothing to do with the carbon track.

They are probably raiding the wreckers for ETMs as they are not available new.
In other words there is a steadly declining number of ETMs available for exchange.
They will probably end up saying we will give a good price on a new car.
Note, also as far as I have been able to ascertain they are still using a similar ETM in new cars.
I have researched this problem in other cars and the only one that I can say for certain that is not a carbon potentiometer is the Mazda where they use Hall Effect transducers to do the job including on the pedal.

Barry

[Wardair]

Barry,

Thank you for your Aussie input. I will check out the source of ETM's in the UK with my contact. I wonder whether the yellow label (rather than white) on the replacement units signifies anything (i.e. refurbished unit?).

It looks like savanaman was right. I have had no response yet from Volvo UK to my letters/faxes. I will send a chaser letter over the weekend. Also as you can see there have been very few responses to my call for info so it looks like apathy rules. The divide and conquer approach is highly effective.

Over the weekend I will trawl the forum and prepare a list of all members who have indicated ETM failures and post this next week to try and generate a little more interest.

Wardair

[savanaman]

You can sign me up for a current problem.

Wardair,

This forum isn't really useful for obtaining the kind of statistics your looking for because most owners dont post here.

I'm wondering if the Watchdog programe had a source? Perhaps theuy might help.

The problem with Volvo is that there nothing in it for them to help since the only possible motivation for them to do so would be people not buying there new cars but it's unlikely that current owners who have the older models buy new anyway. Were smart, we dont buy at new prices but wait 3 years instead.

[Volgrrr]

Keep going Wardair - don't be put off by Savanamans protestations.

If you manage to get a lot of accurate, truthful information and find a powerful source that is prepared to sustain and publicize the issue to arouse the interest of the general public, then Volvo (unless they have a desire to go broke) must address the issue sooner or later.

These big firms (and remember Volvo is now bigger for being owned by Ford) only respond to a sustained campaign - not the odd pin-prick coming from incensed, individual owners.

If you gather enough information, then some car magazines may even start to take notice.

Every effort must be made to push Volvo into becoming defensive, and shedding the offensive gung-ho response they favour at present.

Best of luck - and keep on believing it is only a matter of time before Volvo is brought to heel by the sustained pressure applied by people like yourself.

[setjett5]

Dear Forum member,

Having seen many threads posted regarding the ETM failures I felt it would be appropriate to request some data regarding how this is being managed by Volvo Car UK and their dealer network.

I would therefore like all forum members who have had their ETM replaced to submit a short post to register this giving date and what if any contribution Volvo Car UK offered towards the cost of replacement. Actual costs incurred would also be useful to assertain if pricing policy has changed.

Please also provide basic car data as follows:-

Model, Mileage, Service History and length of ownership.

I intend to collate this data and if as I suspect it shows that Volvo Car UK have been somewhat evasive on this issue (allowing some customers to pay in full for replacement if they are unaware of the issue or not made a fuss) or actually have a policy that results in customers being treated in an inconsistent manner then I will submit the data to BBC Watchdog in an effort to get the matter raised again and everyone treated fairly.

Please advise any other forum members who you know have had an ETM failure.

Many thanks

Wardair

Hi,
I had my V70T5,V Reg.Oct 99 done about 6 months ago at Jacksons Volvo dealers in Jersey.cost £635.Volvo uk refused to give me any discount on the grounds I had not put it in for a service when due but I had done only about a 1,000 miles in it since the previous service,I have a company vehicle and I was trying to use the Volvo as little as possible as I intended to take it to South Africa on retiring but not much chance of me doing that now.Hugh

[V70driver]

Hi Wardair,
I previously posted a reply about this situation. I spoke to Volvo UK some months ago, cannot remember the persons name. He concluded that the threads on this forum are scare mongering and that I should not pay any attention to them. When I mentioned that it was not just a couple of threads there was/is a huge amount of activity regarding the issue, he changed his tone. In the end he said he would write to me to offer a free upgrade/inspection of my ETM. Needless to say I am still waiting for the invite. I have also spoken to my local main dealer who at first had the same attitude and added that the probable reason why the ETM's are failing is beacause the current owners do not look after their cars, do not have them properly serviced by Volvo and have exhorbitant mileage. I reiterated what I said to Volvo UK and again the attitude changed.
For your records, I have had my V70 2.4 Classic for about 5 months and have had no problems It came with a full Volvo service record with every service bang on time. There are no references to the ETM in any record of the cars history. It had just had its 66,000 mile service when I bought it so the next one is 78,000 when I shall get the cam belt done too. As this is important I am seriously thinking of having this done at my main dealer. I appreciate Jod's very kind advise that I should have a go, but I know I just do not have the know how or ability to perform this on such a car, I wish I did. (Thanks Jod)
Will be happy to keep you updated should, God forbid, I do get any problems with my ETM
Good luck.
V70 driver

[Wardair]

Thank you - Volgrrr, setjett5 and V70driver for your encouragement and inputs.

I have been travelling extensively for over two weeks so only just back on the case.

My C70 T5 is going back to the dealer tomorrow. The throttle action is highly suspect since the ETM replacement (my wife is complaining about hesitancy in the cruise, like it is beng switched off and on). The car also will not rev above 4000 rpm (the rev limiter cuts in).

Volvo Car UK have not had the decency to reply to my letters/faxes so it looks like I need to raise the bar with another letter and copy this one to various journals/BBC etc etc.

Regarding Ford (Volvo parent) they are in real trouble financially (currently selling Aston Martin) and this situation must have a bearing on the way these issues are being handled.

Unfortunately of course the new owner is now peddling Ford/Volvo hybrids as Volvos - the new C70 is based on a Focus and the new Ford has a Volvo engine. I can't help feeling that the Volvo company I once admired has gone forever.

Thanks again

Wardair

[gjb71]

WARDAIR,

you can add me to the list of etm probs. its not gone yet but the idle is on the go, reving up and down by approx 500rpms. took it to my local volvo dealer stratstone in oldham. service guy was very helpful, put it on diagnostics (£25) and told me yes it was the etm at fault and quoted £632 for a replacement.

mines a t5 2001 94k on the clock, full service history.

he tried the corporate response when i asked him if there was a prob with this part (no probs known) , but when informed of a bit of background knowledge via www he backed down a bit and told me to contact volvo about the issue and he would do the same on my behalf, to see if they would stand the cost of the clean up option or contribute to the replacement part.

this i've yet to do.

power to the people:smoke:

[stoatsngroats]

I'm surprised that this is fitted to a 1997-2000 V7, i thought it was only on the new shape.?

Could someone please clarify this, as my 143,000 ml classic hasn't had ant reference to this being attended to throughout the SH...?


Thx

SnG

[SIAMBLUE]

I'm surprised that this is fitted to a 1997-2000 V7, i thought it was only on the new shape.?

Could someone please clarify this, as my 143,000 ml classic hasn't had ant reference to this being attended to throughout the SH...?


Thx

SnG

I don't think yours is a ME7 though,

Gary.

[Chris_Rogers]

I'm surprised that this is fitted to a 1997-2000 V7, i thought it was only on the new shape.?

Could someone please clarify this, as my 143,000 ml classic hasn't had ant reference to this being attended to throughout the SH...?


Thx

SnG


Problem only affects later '98 on petrol cars with fly by wire throttle, your car will have a cable throttle and is not affected.

[maxheavy]

Hi,I have a s60 2.0T 2002,65000 miles.
it has the etm problem,i called volvo customer services,they said take it to main dealer,I took it there this morning,they charged me £35.30 to tell me I needed a new ETM, a manifold clean and software update,total cost £930.00,,ouch,
called customer services again they offered to pay a good will gesture of 20%.
I am going to send them a letter including some extracts from the vexed volvo site and see if I can get them to pay more,even if I need to send them a writ.
lets hope and see

[lovebuthatem]

V70 2.4T 2000 119K
Bought 6 months ago at 112k.

Has developed sometimes irratic throttle on idle, hunting to 1200rpm then dropping to almost stall. Has stalled on hitting slow traffic after fast run, then lit up PERFOMANCE REDUCED, subsequently problem disappeared. Occasionally drops out of cruise when selecting +.

Have it serviced by good independent but took to Volvo Dealer with the problem, they cleaned and reseated Exhaust sensor, said there were no error codes shown. But 2 months later problem still there. I have put up with it

Having read this thread and also the info on VexedVolvo would be 99.9% sure its the ETM. Am now going to contact Volvo dealer again, anyone have any tips on approach? Anyone sent the stuff on Don Willson's site to Volvo UK?

Brief update: Contacted Volvo Dealer, they went away to consult, came back to fone and asked me to call VCUK Customer Services because they weren't sure what to advise me.

It went like this-

VC UK: Hello this is ***** How can I help you?
Me: Hello ******, I have a [car details] that is exhibiting all the signs of early ETM failure, I have been told to call you by my local dealer, I know that there has been a problem with this part on these cars and VCUSA has extended warranty to 200k, I would like to know how VCUK are dealing with matters.
VC UK: The Stateside warranty extension situation would not be known by UK Volvo dealer.
Me: I realised that, I said, but given that Volvo coproration has a problem on this part, I want to know what VCUK position is.
VC UK: Book the car into your dealer, there is a FOC clean and software upgrade, up to 200k mls ,if that is diagnosed as the problem on your car.
Me: Thank you, That's all very well but I can't see a clean and software upgrade repairing worn out carbon strips on the potentiometer.
VC UK: Diagnosing the problem and making corrective actions are the responsibility of your Volvo dealer.
Me: Understood, but what if the wear on these parts means that your dealer will be effecting a repair that is at best temporary and very likely to result in customer disatisfaction in a short period of time?
VC UK: The dealer should contact us in the event that the above corrective actions are thought to be inadequate.
Me: Oh good, is there a service note reference I can quote? Only the dealers service department didn't seem aware of the procedure.
VC UK: No sir, there are policies the dealer can refer to, they will know where to access them.

Hmm for some reason I wasn't thanked for calling VC UK.

Anyone interested in the next bit? Any predictions? Post a reply if you want to hear the next outcome....

[SIAMBLUE]

Right guys mine is starting to hunt at idle only by 50 rpm, on the rev counter, Does anyone know if when they clear the codes or reflash the ETM, would i lose my TME remap?
I spoke to Volvo HQ this morning and they said i will get the ETM cleaned and reset FOC, or if the worst they would pay 30% of the cost of a new ETM,

GARY.

PS The other thing is i do not trust Stratstones of Ilford one bit as they are so incompetant.

[Chris_Rogers]

Try this link:

http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index.php?showtopic=45901

I get the impression that an ETM software dowload will wipe any remap.

[lovebuthatem]

Dear Forum member,

Having seen many threads posted regarding the ETM failures I felt it would be appropriate to request some data regarding how this is being managed by Volvo Car UK and their dealer network.

I would therefore like all forum members who have had their ETM replaced to submit a short post to register this giving date and what if any contribution Volvo Car UK offered towards the cost of replacement. Actual costs incurred would also be useful to assertain if pricing policy has changed.

Please also provide basic car data as follows:-

Model, Mileage, Service History and length of ownership.

I intend to collate this data and if as I suspect it shows that Volvo Car UK have been somewhat evasive on this issue (allowing some customers to pay in full for replacement if they are unaware of the issue or not made a fuss) or actually have a policy that results in customers being treated in an inconsistent manner then I will submit the data to BBC Watchdog in an effort to get the matter raised again and everyone treated fairly.

Please advise any other forum members who you know have had an ETM failure.

Many thanks

Wardair

There seems to be a bit of stirring up going on in Australia see

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20736680-643,00.html

VAGA (Volvolemon Action Group Australia ) contact Nick [ni-ilic@grapevine.net.au] maybe get some concerted action stirring in UK?

[Tilda99]

I have a 2000 V70, and have owned it since Jun 2004. I bought it from Volvo main dealer, with fvsh and warranty etc. In Oct 2005, the ETM failed, with the mileage not much over 50k. I got a total contribution of 20% ( I was told it was 10% from Volvo and 10% from dealer), so cost to me was £400.
I was aware at the time of some concern over ETM's, but I have only lately relaised what a big issue this is, and the fact that Volvo US seem to be replacing them as they fail for free.
I am contemplating contact Volvo UK to ask for total refund, if a precedent has been set by someone. So before going to Watchdog with your findings, perhaps you should come back here and let us have a go at Volvo UK??
Apart from this, though, I have been delighted with what is now my 4th Volvo...

T99

[SIAMBLUE]

Well after a chat with Dan at Volvo HQ, I deicided instead of phoning Stratstones that i would go in, Their attitude still stinks there even though they have been bought out,
I went in and fully explained the problem and what Volvo HQ had said, and i also stated that after diagnosis there was no work to be carried out until i knew the extent of the ETM, as there is no way i am paying for a new ETM this side of xmas,
so the car is booked in for next Wednesday at 10am,
My car at the moment is only fluctuating revving by 50 rpm at idle, so it is the early stage of it so far, car has now done 95k,

Gary.

[savanaman]

Right guys mine is starting to hunt at idle only by 50 rpm, on the rev counter, Does anyone know if when they clear the codes or reflash the ETM, would i lose my TME remap?
I spoke to Volvo HQ this morning and they said i will get the ETM cleaned and reset FOC, or if the worst they would pay 30% of the cost of a new ETM,

GARY.

PS The other thing is i do not trust Stratstones of Ilford one bit as they are so incompetant.

Thats really good deal comparitley as usaly Volvo UK will not give anything on cars over 6 years old.
30% off is pretty good. Can I ask if you had to argue or were they helpful?
Anyone now asking for a discount might remind Volvo that a T reg car was given 30% off.

Would you mind if we quoted your discount Siamblue?

[1stRaven]

not sure if any of you are aware of this but it seems that volvo cars of american have held their hands up to this problem and issued a recall.

Further information is here including a link to the volvo recall pdf - http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=83967

[Oli]

not sure if any of you are aware of this but it seems that volvo cars of american have held their hands up to this problem and issued a recall.

Further information is here including a link to the volvo recall pdf - http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=83967

Looks like the recall is to download the new software (available from May this year) onto cars that have not already had it done. This is to overcome the aledged safety issue of switching to limp home mode while driving along. Which has been reported as a side effect on this forum a few times. This is what owners here can get too. However, there is also a 10 year 200k mile warranty (not recall) in place in the US for the ETM. That's what we want here. Why does the US get such coverage and the UK and RoR does not? Well it's because of a Californian government agency imposing a threat, based on the emmissions from the car being higher due to the ETM problem.

I think people in the US were hoping that the NHTSA would really get their teeth into this issue and awk for a replacement unit and recall.

Oli

[SIAMBLUE]

Thats really good deal comparitley as usaly Volvo UK will not give anything on cars over 6 years old.
30% off is pretty good. Can I ask if you had to argue or were they helpful?
Anyone now asking for a discount might remind Volvo that a T reg car was given 30% off.

Would you mind if we quoted your discount Siamblue?

Yes feel free, he asked me the age of the car and when i said 7 years he said yes then i told him the mileage and i could hear his brain working and he said yes you qualify, no arguing just spoke to a guy called Dan on ext 5017,

Gary,

I think i upset Stratstones by asking for a FOC job then a curtiousy car thrown in, oops.

[savanaman]

Saim, saw your car on the link, my favorite combination of colours.

Can you keep us posted as to the work and your opion of th work.

[savanaman]

Just wondering how you might be getting on Wardair?

Have you had any success at all?

Thanks

[Chris_Rogers]

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=27893&highlight=recall

[SIAMBLUE]

Just an update on my dilemma, well i went to Hampshire over the weekend and on the way back on one occasion i was lightly touching the throttle and nothing was happening then i backed off and reapplied my foot and the car went on its merry way, since then the car is starting to hunt very badly now, revs dropping 800 at a time, I am just thankful that i knew the symptoms when it was playing up thanks to this forum, and the problem is being addressed tomorrow at 10am,

GARY.

[SIAMBLUE]

Does anyone know if the etm is failing would the car show signs of black rich smoke coming out of the exhausts? since i came back over the weekend i have now noticed this soot in the exhausts luckily for me it is going into Volvo today,

Gary.

[lovebuthatem]

V70 2.4T 2000 119K probs since 112K, unknown history before

Misdiagnosed by dealers and independents.
Finally read forum, thanks guys.

Called Volvo cust service (VCUK), had interesting conversation but I did mention USA and Sweden situation. Told that up to dealer to diagnose replacement needed. So booked into dealer, dealer asked for File Ref No. (if VCUK going to pay) told me to call back to VCUK. VCUK quite snotty with me ,said dealer should do this not customer, told them I wanted this fixed. Said they call dealer direct.

Car went in specifically for ETM issue. Dealer calls back after 1.5hrs, "Sorry sir your engine no. does not come into the Service notice issued by Volvo, but we can do job (clean and download) for £150+VAT". Told them not to bother.

Steaming, called VCUK to straighten out the curly bit on their fone. Handled v professionally, calmed me down, they said- The dealer should know they can call us if your engine number is not in range.??? Uh they hadn't?? VCUK said they would call dealer back and get the repair sorted.

I called dealer back 2Hrs later to check what happening and told that VCUK had authorised.

So job done, no cost to me. Hows it running? better but its still not a smooth at t/o as should be, but 110% better, think it may fail soon. Should I join the AA???

Tips for others,
1.don't beleive your local dealer,(either their communication with VCUK is not hot, or conspiracy to keep costs down, or dealers get better labour rates from punters than VCUK).
2. Call customer services directly 08457564636
3. Be assertive but not abusive, use USA and Sweden references. (they get replacement ETM)
4. Ask for ETM replacement, (bet you dont get) but will get clean and U/G free.
5. Take name of bod you speak to in VCUK cust services
6. Tell dealer any issues-call your VCUK contact
7. May be idea to have this job done separately (ie not when you have service etc, allows dealer no margin to hide costs etc- I'm sure they wouldnt!! Then again, pigs fly don't they????)

Wardair thanks for this topic, see that there's press in the States and Aus now, I have some access to press in UK, slim chance of getting local/national story, if you are interested PM me and we could discuss storyline etc.

[Wardair]

Savanaman,

Thank you for asking after me. I have been busy with my day job hence the lack of postings.

I am very grateful for all the info being posted, please keep them coming as I may need this data very soon as it looks like my efforts to raise the public awareness of the issue is about to bear fruit.

I hope to have some news for everyone later today.

Watch this space....................

Wardair

[cookie]

I have a 1999MY v70 T5 117,000 on clock and Idle is erratic. Having read others 'less than satifactory results' from main stealers I am more of the opinion to get my usual mechanic to look at it for a few quid and if it looks dodgy BBA reman is 10min up the road from me so will get them to rework for £250 with 2yr warranty. I don't have much faith in Main stealers as if you go to get code's read they suggest £100's of pounds of unnessary work. e.g. ABS light on "£200+" quote from my local dealer. local mechanic £35 abs has worked fine for past 18mths (Cleaned connections) obviously replaceing sensors etc would do same job.

nuff said

ben

[Wardair]

Cookie,

Fully agree with your observations on 'Main Stealers'.

I emailed BBA reman but got no answer. Whilst they have a picture of the ETM on their website I could not find any other place where there are details of repair. have you confirmed that they are still refurbishing the ETM? I also believe you will need to wait for your own device to be repaired due to avoid the need for remapping of the module with ECU.

Wardair

[Track_Rod]

I asked them via Email a few months ago when researching a used Volvo purchase.

They advised that they were not able to offer a refurbishment service at all on the Volvo ETM.

I bought a D5 !!

[mark2jag]

AS ABOVE!!!!!


Regards, Mark

[roadhog]

I spoke to them a couple of months ago and was told they do not refurb Volvo ETM anymore due to software problems. Didn't sound like they're planning to in the near future either.

[savanaman]

Hey Wardair,

Great, do you have anything to share with us?

By the way, I remember Wardair, what ever happened to them I flew a few times as a youngster. What connection do you have with them?

[cookie]

I rang them about 3 weeks ago and they gave me the impression that they would rework, perhaps they mis-understood my question but I was specific as I even asked about garage listed on their web site which is in same road on industrial estate.

ben

[1999s70]

I've read through this thread and all I can say, first off, is that I'm so sorry that Volvo is treating non-US car owners like they have been. Do understand, though, that the clincher in the US legal case was that a failing ETM would cause exhaust emissions that would violate California's Clean Air Standards. So - the ETM issue was, effectively, treated as a pollution problem, not a safety/part failure issue. Bottom line - the ETM gets replaced at Volvo's cost if it fails (10 yr/200K limits), but for the wrong reasons.

That said - I've had mine replaced twice - the original lasted 118K and the second 96K. I have almost 40K on my third. I paid for both replacements, but was ultimately reimbursed by Volvo for my first one, coincidentally about 2 months before the second ETM failed. As a member of the Volvo Club of America, I get a 10% discount on parts at my local Volvo dealership, which helped a little when the second ETM had to be replaced - the ETM parts themselves are almost $500, so 10% is something, at least.

As for the software upgrade - since the ETM software has to be reflashed whenever the ETM module is replaced (which, I believe, is why you must go to a dealer to have this service done), even though I was well beyond the 200K limitation on the upgrade, I ended up having it done with my second ETM replacement. My understanding is that the upgrade has to do with the throttle being better able to detect when it "really" has to move the throttle plate, rather than moving it because of a momentary glitch, especially at low engine speeds. Perhaps the theory behind this is that, if the throttle plate moves less, then the ETM will last longer? Only time will tell - I'll see if, and when, I have my third replacement, how long this ETM lasted.

Obviously I can't look inside the throttle body and see what's going on - but I can say that the idle speed is between 25 and 50 rpm higher than before. I can also say that my idle fuel consumption is a bit higher than before - my highway gas mileage has remained the same (or even gone up very slightly), but my "city" driving mileage is a little lower than before.

Hope this helps a little. And, again, I'm sorry that my fellow non-US Volvo owners are being treated shabbily by Volvo.

[Wardair]

I am pleased to advise that Watchdog will revisit the ETM issue on Tuesday evening (7pm BBC1). Their researcher is keen to get as many inputs as possible.
Below is a quick summary of inputs to this thread. Please add to the list or edit if I have got it wrong. This is our chance to get VCUK to take notice so the more inputs the better. If you do not want to post please email me whatever you have to wardair@breathe.com

Nickname Vehicle YoM & Mileage Action & Comments VCUK Contribution
Siamblue V70R ETM Cleaned at 80K miles now offered 30%
Addyman ? T5 Replaced under warranty (cost £580) 100%
ollieoxford C70T5 69K Replaced under warranty 100%
lovebuthatem V702.4T 2000 112K
setjett5 V70T6 1999 Replaced paid £635 0%
gjb71 ? T5 2001 94K Replaced 20%
maxheavy S602.0T 2002 65K Replaced cost £930 20%
Tilda99 V70 2000 50K+ Replaced VCUK matched Dealer 20%
limh30 V70 2001 Cleaned Dec 2005
V70driver V70 promised letter from VCUK (still waiting)
cookie V70 T5 1999 117,000 Idle is erratic.

Wardair

[Oli]

Oli, V plate V70 R AWD (2000 MY), erratic idle on an intermittent basis from 60,000 miles (when car purchased). Reported to dealer many times, but never a code to read when checked. At 78,000 miles service (90,000 mile service carried out) software for the ETM was upgraded (but without a discussion about why or the benefits of doing so - but we all know why don't we). Now at 90,000 miles and I still have erratic idle, and just last week it was so up and down that the car stalled. Have reported again. As it was first reported (several times) during the dealer warranty period I'll be arguing for the cost to be fully covered if it does need replacing, as clearly they knew what the problem was, but were avoiding the real fix required.

And somebody else posted that they were offerd a lifetime guarantee on their replacement. Afterall, the problem is being fixed with a unit that is exactly the same and therefore will fail again. We need a redesigned unit that will not fail. What's the ETM in the newer models (like the C70 post 2002 that is not part of the "at risk" group)?

Are you going on Watchdog?

Oli

[Wardair]

Thanks Oli I have added your info to the list below. I was asked to appear on the show but due to work commitments I could not


Nickname Vehicle YoM & Mileage Action & Comments VCUK Contribution
Siamblue V70R ETM Cleaned at 80K miles now offered 30%
Addyman ? T5 Replaced under warranty (cost £580) 100%
ollieoxford C70T5 69K Replaced under warranty 100%
lovebuthatem V702.4T 2000 112K
setjett5 V70T6 1999 Replaced paid £635 0%
gjb71 ? T5 2001 94K Replaced 20%
maxheavy S602.0T 2002 65K Replaced cost £930 20%
Tilda99 V70 2000 50K+ Replaced VCUK matched Dealer 20%
limh30 V70 2001 Cleaned Dec 2005
V70driver V70 promised letter from VCUK (still waiting)
cookie V70 T5 1999 117,000 Idle is erratic.
oli V70 R AWD (2000 MY) 90,000 erratic idle since 60K New software @ 90K


Wardair

[Wardair]

One more vehicle details added. please keep the inputs coming :-


Nickname Vehicle YoM & Mileage Action & Comments VCUK Contribution
Siamblue V70R ETM Cleaned at 80K miles now offered 30%
Addyman ? T5 Replaced under warranty (cost £580) 100%
ollieoxford C70T5 69K Replaced under warranty 100%
lovebuthatem V70 2.4T 2000 112K worried about failure?
setjett5 V70T6 1999 Replaced paid £635 0%
gjb71 ? T5 2001 94K Replaced 20%
maxheavy S602.0T 2002 65K Replaced cost £930 20%
Tilda99 V70 2000 50K+ Replaced VCUK matched Dealer 20%
limh30 V70 2001 Cleaned Dec 2005
V70driver V70 promised letter from VCUK (still waiting)
cookie V70 T5 1999 117,000 Idle is erratic.
oli V70 R AWD (2000 MY) 90,000 erratic idle since 60K New software @ 90K
Volvo2 V70 2002 ?mileage ETM cleaned and software upgraded Sept 06 now has irratic idle

Wardair [wardair@breathe.com]

[cookie]

Mine is in 2morrow (sorry later today) monday to local mech to replace lambda sensors as engine light is on. will post out come as was considering speaking to local maindealer re idle but would be very wary about them doing any work unless they g'tee to return car fully working without charge. I do not want a 'free reprogram of throttle clean' to be then advised 'sorry broke part removing so cannot drive till replaced £600 please', I have read and heard of such expiriences

Ben

[Oli]

Mine is in 2morrow (sorry later today) monday to local mech to replace lambda sensors as engine light is on. will post out come as was considering speaking to local maindealer re idle but would be very wary about them doing any work unless they g'tee to return car fully working without charge. I do not want a 'free reprogram of throttle clean' to be then advised 'sorry broke part removing so cannot drive till replaced £600 please', I have read and heard of such expiriences

Ben


Ben, It's not the ETM that's removed for cleaning, this is a sealed unit. The throttle body gets cleaned out, which is a standard service item anyway every so often.

It's a bit late, but how did you decide that the lambda sensor needed replacing, is your local mech able to check the codes and diagnose correctly?

Oli

[Oli]

One more vehicle details added. please keep the inputs coming :-


Nickname Vehicle YoM & Mileage Action & Comments VCUK Contribution
Siamblue V70R ETM Cleaned at 80K miles now offered 30%
Addyman ? T5 Replaced under warranty (cost £580) 100%
ollieoxford C70T5 69K Replaced under warranty 100%
lovebuthatem V70 2.4T 2000 112K worried about failure?
setjett5 V70T6 1999 Replaced paid £635 0%
gjb71 ? T5 2001 94K Replaced 20%
maxheavy S602.0T 2002 65K Replaced cost £930 20%
Tilda99 V70 2000 50K+ Replaced VCUK matched Dealer 20%
limh30 V70 2001 Cleaned Dec 2005
V70driver V70 promised letter from VCUK (still waiting)
cookie V70 T5 1999 117,000 Idle is erratic.
oli V70 R AWD (2000 MY) 90,000 erratic idle since 60K New software @ 81K
Volvo2 V70 2002 ?mileage ETM cleaned and software upgraded Sept 06 now has irratic idle

Wardair [wardair@breathe.com]

Wardair,

Modified my details a tad. Software was updated at 81k actual miles. (schedule was for 78k service, but 90k service carried out instead based on age of vehicle rather than milage). I'm now at 90k miles.

Thanks

Oli

[daveg2566]

hi,
my 2001 s60 2.0ts is booked in for tommorrow for software and clean,idle not bad but keeps going into reduced performance mode which is scary especially when occurs on motorway.after stopping for 5 minutes car runs ok and after 30 minutes error messages clear.it started about a month ago about once a week but yesterday happened 3 times.

[ian_w]

I have a 2000 C70 T5 and eventually got my ETM replaced in May this year ( approx 78k miles ). It was covered by the Volvo used car warranty I got when I bought the car from the local main dealers.

The symptoms were a light 'surging' at around 70-80mph in 5th gear. Many people may not have noticed this but I picked it up and instantly realised it was the ETM fault.

It took me 5 visits to the dealers before I finally got them to replace it. Usual software updates and cleaning had no effect but the new one works fine ( at the moment !! ). I think the dealers said they charged the warranty company £700+ for the job.

[Wardair]

Two more vehicle details added. Thank you for your inputs :-

Nickname Vehicle YoM & Mileage Action & Comments VCUK Contribution
Siamblue V70R ETM Cleaned at 80K miles now offered 30%
Addyman ? T5 Replaced under warranty (cost £580) 100%
ollieoxford C70T5 69K Replaced under warranty 100%
lovebuthatem V70 2.4T 2000 112K worried about failure?
setjett5 V70T6 1999 Replaced paid £635 0%
gjb71 ? T5 2001 94K Replaced 20%
maxheavy S602.0T 2002 65K Replaced cost £930 20%
Tilda99 V70 2000 50K+ Replaced VCUK matched Dealer 20%
limh30 V70 2001 Cleaned Dec 2005
V70driver V70 promised letter from VCUK (still waiting)
cookie V70 T5 1999 117,000 Idle is erratic.
Ian_W C70
oli V70 R AWD (2000 MY) 90,000 erratic idle since 60K New software @ 81K
xxxxo2 V70 2002 ?mileage ETM cleaned and software upgraded Sept 06 now has irratic idle
Daveg2566 S60 2.0ts ? miles Variable performance Booked in for software upgrade & throttle clean
Ian_W C70 T5 78,000 miles Power Surging athigh speed ETM replaced in May under seller warranty VCUK 0%?

Keep the inputs coming 28 hours to go to the showdown!!!!!!!
Wardair [wardair@breathe.com]

[Wardair]

Please add any details of vehicles which have experienced ETM problems:-

Nickname Vehicle YoM & Mileage Action & Comments VCUK ContributionSiamblue V70R ETM Cleaned at 80K miles now offered 30%
Addyman ? T5 Replaced under warranty (cost £580) 100% (may have been separate warranty?)
ollieoxford C70T5 69K Replaced under warranty 100% (may have been separate warranty?)
lovebuthatem V70 2.4T 2000 112K worried about failure?
setjett5 V70T6 1999 ETM Replaced paid £635 0%
gjb71 ? T5 2001 94K ETM Replaced 20%
maxheavy S602.0T 2002 65K ETM Replaced cost £930 20%
Tilda99 V70 2000 50K+ ETM Replaced VCUK matched 10% Dealer contribution 20%
limh30 V70 2001 ETM Cleaned Dec 2005
V70driver V70 promised letter from VCUK (still waiting)
cookie V70 T5 1999 117,000 Idle is erratic.
oli V70 R AWD (2000 MY) 90,000 erratic idle since 60K New software @ 81K
Vxxxx V70 2002 ?mileage ETM cleaned and software upgraded Sept 06 now has irratic idle
Daveg2566 S60 2.0ts ? miles Variable performance Booked in for software upgrade & throttle clean
Ian_W C70 T5 78,000 miles Power Surging at high speed ETM replaced in May under seller warranty VCUK 0%?

Keep the inputs coming we have 27 hours to go to the showdown!!!!!!!

Wardair

[Please email me if you want to remain anonymous at wardair@breathe.com]

[daveg2566]

hi wardair,
sorry forgot to put mileage down ,it is 100,000 miles

[Wardair]

Please add any details of vehicles which have experienced ETM problems:-

Nickname Vehicle YoM & Mileage Action & Comments VCUK Contribution
Siamblue V70R ETM Cleaned at 80K miles now offered 30%
Addyman ? T5 Replaced under warranty (cost £580) 100% (may have been separate warranty?)
ollieoxford C70T5 69K Replaced under warranty 100% (may have been separate warranty?)
lovebuthatem V70 2.4T 2000 112K worried about failure?
setjett5 V70T6 1999 ETM Replaced paid £635 0%
gjb71 ? T5 2001 94K ETM Replaced 20%
maxheavy S602.0T 2002 65K ETM Replaced cost £930 20%
Tilda99 V70 2000 50K+ ETM Replaced VCUK matched 10% Dealer contribution 20%
limh30 V70 2001 ETM Cleaned Dec 2005
V70driver V70 promised letter from VCUK (still waiting)
cookie V70 T5 1999 117,000 Idle is erratic.
oli V70 R AWD (2000 MY) 90,000 erratic idle since 60K New software @ 81K
Vxxxx V70 2002 ?mileage ETM cleaned and software upgraded Sept 06 now has irratic idle
Daveg2566 S60 2.0ts 100,000 miles Variable performance Booked in for software upgrade & throttle clean
Ian_W C70 T5 78,000 miles Power Surging at high speed ETM replaced in May under seller warranty VCUK 0%?

Keep the inputs coming we have 26 hours to go to the showdown!!!!!!!

Wardair

[Please email me if you want to remain anonymous at wardair@breathe.com]

[cookie]

Hi, Yes local mech as equiptment to read codes etc, have had both lambda sensors replaced, light reset and have taken car to red line and engine light stayed off. As problem has been for about 18mths with light coming on, going off, moment hit 6000rpm light would come back on again and sometimes reduce revs to 4000, 3 or 4 days of driving car and light would go out, or garage would put light out revs would then be fine. You cold only get light to come on if you drove (car in drive) at 6000rpm, If you sat in netural after garage put light out, or light had gone out on own, and reved engine, light stayed out.

P.s Idle is still erratic, but at least light out.

[Oli]

P.s Idle is still erratic, but at least light out.

One down, one to go then. I'd book it in for the software upgrade. This should be free and may make a difference. The main safety difference will be that the car can not switch into "safe mode" while driving along, a big risk that many users have suffered, and on occasion been quite scared by.

Glad the light is out - but is anybody home?

Oli

[cookie]

when the light was on there was nobody home, and now the lights off there's definately nobody home:speechless-smiley-2

I will be driving past a volvo dealer 2day and am going to pop in to see what they say regarding my car, esp as topic should be on watchdog 2night


ben

[Wardair]

Last chance to add your details:-

Nickname Vehicle YoM & Mileage Action & Comments VCUK Contribution
Wardair C70 T5 1999(T); 97,000 ETM Replaced Dealer 10% VCUK 10%
timh30 V70 2001 ETM Cleaned
SiamblueV70R ETM cleaned at 80K miles now offered 30%
Addyman ? T5 Replaced under warranty (cost £580) 100% (under warranty)
kevham V70 2000, 70,000 Problems from 40K cleaned at 70K
ollieoxford C70T5 xxxx; 69,000; Replaced twice? 69k & 76K 0% ( under separate warranties?)
lovebuthatem V70 2.4T 2000; 119,000 Throttle erratic advised to contact VCUK 100% (see dialogue on thread)
setjett5 V70T5 1999; ETM Replaced paid £635 0%
gjb71 ? T5 2001; 94,000 ETM Replaced £632 quoted 20% (10 dealer +10?)
maxheavy S60 2.0T 2002; 65,000 ETM Replaced cost £930 20% (10 dealer +10?)
Tilda99 V70 2000; 50,000+ ETM Replaced VCUK matched 10% Dealer contribution 20%
limh30 V70 2001; ETM Cleaned Dec 2005
V70driver V70 xxxx; Promised letter from VCUK (still waiting)
cookie V70 T5 1999 ;117,000 Idle is erratic.
oli V70 R 2000; 90,000 Erratic idle since 60K New software @ 81K
Vxxxx V70 2002; ?mileage ETM cleaned and software upgraded Sept 06 now has irratic idle
Daveg2566 S60 2.0ts xxxx; 100,000 Variable performance Booked in for software upgrade & throttle clean
Ian_W C70 T5 xxxx; 78,000 Power Surging at high speed ETM replaced in May under seller warranty VCUK 0%?


Wardair

[Wardair]

The program including a feature on the ETM Failures goes out at 7pm tonight.

If you have any final inputs that you feel would be useful please post them now.

Thank you

Wardair

[Wardair]

Nickname Vehicle YoM & Mileage Action & Comments VCUK Contribution
Wardair C70 T5 1999(T); 97,000 ETM replaced Dealer 10% VCUK 10%
timh30 V70 2001 ETM Cleaned
Siamblue V70R ETM cleaned at 80K miles now offered 30%
Addyman ? T5 Replaced under warranty (cost £580) 100% (under warranty)
kevham V70 2000, 70,000 Problems from 40K clened at 70K
ollieoxford C70T5 xxxx; 69,000; Replaced twice? 69k & 76K 0% ( under separate warranties?)
lovebuthatem V70 2.4T 2000; 119,000 Throttle erratic advised to contact VCUK 100% (see dialogue on thread)
setjett5 V70T5 1999; ETM Replaced paid £635 0%
gjb71 ? T5 2001; 94,000 ETM Replaced £632 quoted 20% (10 dealer +10?)
maxheavy S60 2.0T 2002; 65,000 ETM Replaced cost £930 20% (10 dealer +10?)
Tilda99 V70 2000; 50,000+ ETM Replaced VCUK matched 10% Dealer contribution 20%
limh30 V70 2001; ETM Cleaned Dec 2005
V70driver V70 xxxx; Promised letter from VCUK (still waiting)
cookie V70 T5 1999 ;117,000 Idle is erratic.
oli V70 R 2000; 90,000 Erratic idle since 60K New software @ 81K
Vxxxx V70 2002; ?mileage ETM cleaned and software upgraded Sept 06 now has irratic idle
Daveg2566 S60 2.0ts xxxx; 100,000 Variable performance Booked in for software upgrade & throttle clean
Ian_W C70 T5 xxxx; 78,000 Power Surging at high speed ETM replaced in May under seller warranty VCUK 0%?

Wardair

[cookie]

popped into local Maindealer and car is booked in next tuesday for winter check and report etc on ETM. Told them wanted checked etc as they are on watchdog, and receptionist seemed quite unphased, but seemed to know that this problem is on watchdog so will watch (and video) 2night with interest.
I have also contacted 'BBA reman' and they say that at present they are not currently reworking ETM's as they have had warranty Issues (they give 2yr warranty). If they can resolve then they will reconsider.


ben

p.s. sorry wardair mileage is just over 116,000 not 117,000

[timh30]

Hi Wardair.

Thanks for co-ordinating this issue.

I think you have me listed twice as timh30 (correct) and limh30 (incorrect). ETM was cleaned Dec 2005 at approx 80k (and a s/w update also applied). I've also recently been experiencing surging (which actually feels like you are driving into a blustery headwind) and frequently now getting what feels like a sudden misfire - which disables cruise control until engine is stopped and restarted. I'm currently at 90k miles, although car off road with the clutch release bearing failed and dumping fluid everywhere!

I'm really starting to regret buying this Volvo, which I had always thought of as being well built, reliable cars. I've never owned a less reliable car than this (rear wiper has now stopped, rear passenger door sometimes fails to lock, in addition to my ETM and now clutch issues - all in a few months of ownership). I very much doubt I will ever purchase a Volvo again after these experiences.

I've seen the word 'money-pit' used quite a lot on the forums recently and I can certainly see why.

[moorman]

Sorry to post this after your cut off, but only just found this forum tonight.

I'll be watching watchdog with interest.

I have an S80 SE 2.4Petrol 170bhp 2002 now with 84,000 on the clock.

Last February (73,300 on the clock) I started the car one morning and set off from home. About half a mile from my home I have to take a sharp 90 degree left hand corner on my estate.

I took my foot off the throttle to take the corner, and as I was going round it the engine stalled, the power steering failed as a consequence, and in an instant despite tugging frantically on the steering, I ended up taking the bend on the opposite side of the road.

I am convinced that if a car had been coming the other way I would have hit it head on.

I had the car towed to my dealers for investigation as I didn't fancy driving it after that. They did not seem at all concerned that I had ended up on the wrong side of the road. They diagnosed a faulty throttle housing as the problem (part 8644344) - is this the same part that this forum is about?

They replaced it together with a gasket and ETM reload and charged me £675.68 for the pivilege.

As the car was out of warranty I reluctantly paid up and thought nothing of it until now.

Await further developments with interest.

[cookie]

Hi, Ive just seen report on watchdog. My car as prev said is booked for tuesday for free software etc and £30 winter check. I am thinking of drafting a contract for when the car goes in.

basically a statement which I sign and dealer sign agreeing
1. total agreed cost
2. work to be done
3. car supplied to them running and MUST be returned running without any additional costs.

reason for above is that if they remove ETM or do anything to the ETM which renders the ETM u/s then they have you by the 'short and curlies'. they could ask for £500 plus to repair car, and all the time you are arguing they are holding your car in a non-running condition.

what do others think?

could a standard letter be posted or agreed on by VOC to give to dealers when car is given to them in good faith.

ben

[Andy_eclipse]

Add me to the list. However I have taken things abit further than you guys. When my ETM failed I took the dealer to small claims court and won!

I have had my ETM replaced and it has cost me nothing. The case was won under the sale of goods act 1989 on the basis that the part was not fit for the purpose as it was insufficiently durable.

[Andy_eclipse]

Sorry, just to add my car is a V70 2.4t 2000 model. Volvo offered me 20% the dealer a further 10%.

[blues60]

I've missed the boat on this but my 2001 S60 2.0T was suffering surging and uneven idle. I had the ETM cleaned last service (March 2006 @ 65K) which sorted it but over recent months the surging happened a couple more times. I'm going to call my dealer tomorrow and see about the software upgrade. I don't see how a software upgrade is going to compensate for a mechanical failure but I'll see what they suggest.

[Andy_eclipse]

Blues60

If my experiance is anything to go by the software upgrade and cleaning the throttle housing is only a very short term fix. Mine lasted 2 days after the software upgrade!!!

I wish you luck though.

[SIAMBLUE]

Hi, Ive just seen report on watchdog. My car as prev said is booked for tuesday for free software etc and £30 winter check. I am thinking of drafting a contract for when the car goes in.

basically a statement which I sign and dealer sign agreeing
1. total agreed cost
2. work to be done
3. car supplied to them running and MUST be returned running without any additional costs.

reason for above is that if they remove ETM or do anything to the ETM which renders the ETM u/s then they have you by the 'short and curlies'. they could ask for £500 plus to repair car, and all the time you are arguing they are holding your car in a non-running condition.

what do others think?

could a standard letter be posted or agreed on by VOC to give to dealers when car is given to them in good faith.

ben

Hi Cookie, i have delayed coming back to this thread, as i was so angry with Stratstones in Ilford, I had the car all booked in and i had a issue with a Lambda sensor, and the MAF according to them £600 first before they can diagnose the ETM, and yes Cookie they would say ETM is US as well and couldn't be cleaned,
I made them well aware and the whole of the premises, that they were a bunch of cheating cnuts, as i had earlier that morning changed my MAF over for another working one that still caused the car to have the same symptoms,
I have 2 choices now to take my car to a different dealer or clean the TB myself,

Think i will try the Volvo dealers in Stamford Hill,

Gary,

[SIAMBLUE]

Another thing this site tells you all about the ETM, and guess who owns Marinelli?

http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/tech_info.html


FIAT, god help us all,

Gary,

[cookie]

Hi Cookie, i have delayed coming back to this thread, as i was so angry with Stratstones in Ilford, I had the car all booked in and i had a issue with a Lambda sensor, and the MAF according to them £600 first before they can diagnose the ETM, and yes Cookie they would say ETM is US as well and couldn't be cleaned,
I made them well aware and the whole of the premises, that they were a bunch of cheating cnuts, as i had earlier that morning changed my MAF over for another working one that still caused the car to have the same symptoms,
I have 2 choices now to take my car to a different dealer or clean the TB myself,

Think i will try the Volvo dealers in Stamford Hill,

Gary,

hi mate, I have just had both sensors on exhaust replaced (have posted about this elsewhere) as I wanted no logged faults for Volvo to throw at me b4 attending to ETM, so I don't have any lwarning ights on and will take to my local mech to read all codes (if there are any) b4 taking to main dealer.

I would consider launching my wife at the service dept if they try and stitch me up. (when she blows, I start to feel sorry for the manager she's demanded to see!!!!)

ben

p.s. all the best (keep us posted)

ben

[SIAMBLUE]

Found this for you guys to browse, Very interesting read, and tells you what can and does go wrong,

http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/tech_info.html

Gary,

[arvs31260]

Hi Cookie, i have delayed coming back to this thread, as i was so angry with Stratstones in Ilford, I had the car all booked in and i had a issue with a Lambda sensor, and the MAF according to them £600 first before they can diagnose the ETM, and yes Cookie they would say ETM is US as well and couldn't be cleaned,
I made them well aware and the whole of the premises, that they were a bunch of cheating cnuts, as i had earlier that morning changed my MAF over for another working one that still caused the car to have the same symptoms,
I have 2 choices now to take my car to a different dealer or clean the TB myself,

Think i will try the Volvo dealers in Stamford Hill,

Gary,

Hi, Seems a problem I experienced is coming down to the ETM. I replaced plugs, fuel filter, air filter and yesterday the MAFM. ECU reset and still 'farts' about 4500 rpm through the gears on hard acceleration. Booked into Riverside Volvo in Hull on Monday for software and 'clean'. Going for the signed acknowledgement the car was running fine when I took it in in case they try and stictch me up. I am advised Volvo UK make a 'generous' donation towards the cost of a replacement ETM if required.
I was surprised that this deep rooted problem was not mentioned when I first came to the forum with this problem. I think there are enough people in the forum to make a substantial noise!:Dancing_chief:

[robert dempster]

Hi

If anyone has had it replaced could you tell us where and how much it cost you?

V70 2.4t etm failed at 53k ,replaced by volvo approx £600 ,previous owner footed bill Phew!

[Oli]

Add me to the list. However I have taken things abit further than you guys. When my ETM failed I took the dealer to small claims court and won!

I have had my ETM replaced and it has cost me nothing. The case was won under the sale of goods act 1989 on the basis that the part was not fit for the purpose as it was insufficiently durable.

Hey Andy, Good work.

Does winning in the small claim court set a precedence? Could you post more detail about the process you went through, why it was the dealer and not Volvo that you took to court, how long had you owned the car, did it have full Volvo service history, how many miles, etc. and have you a warranty on the replacement (somebody posted a while ago in a different thread that they had a lifetime warranty on their replacement) or will you just plan on going around the loop again?

Cheers

Oli

[Oli]

when the light was on there was nobody home, and now the lights off there's definately nobody home:speechless-smiley-2

I will be driving past a volvo dealer 2day and am going to pop in to see what they say regarding my car, esp as topic should be on watchdog 2night

ben

It's just like that here with the lights and all.

As you're in Kent, I'd be interested to know how you get on with the dealer next week and which one it is.

Hope the work next week helps

Oli

[savanaman]

Had mine done last week. The clean and upgrade.

Dash light out now and drives without a problem. Not sure how long it would take them to remove the unit and clean and then add the software back in.

They had mine for about an hour and half.

Interseting enough, when I got the car back my clock had been set to thwe right time, I didn't reset it after the time change in october.

Guess I'll see how long it lasts. seems fine now though.

Good for Ward air to get it on watch dog.
Only dissapoint is that still they wont fix it for free you still have to pay the majority of the costs if it fails.

[SIAMBLUE]

I had mine done this morning idle is now rock steady, Triangle Volvo had mine for 75 minutes, excellent company,

Gary,

[Okete]

Got mine booked in with Marshall's (Cambridge) next Tuesday. They said they wanted the car 'all day' and would I like a courtesy car!!
Hope it's still the 'dogs nadgers', or better, when I collect it - at the moment it is running fine but has got a rhythmic idle surge(c.+/-500rpm).

Cheers,
John.

[Andy_eclipse]

Hey Andy, Good work.

Does winning in the small claim court set a precedence? Could you post more detail about the process you went through, why it was the dealer and not Volvo that you took to court, how long had you owned the car, did it have full Volvo service history, how many miles, etc. and have you a warranty on the replacement (somebody posted a while ago in a different thread that they had a lifetime warranty on their replacement) or will you just plan on going around the loop again?

Cheers

Oli

Oli

Unfortunately it does not set a legal presedent. Basically the process was as follows:
1. At time of repair made it clear I was not happy to pay for the repair (do not see that as essential)
2. Write to dealer (recorded delivery) stating that under the sale of goods act I wished to claim a refund for the cost of the replacement, as the item was not fit for purpose as it was insufficiently durable and therefore they were in breach of contract. Gave them 14 days to respond.
3. Predictable response (last word off) from dealer. Issued final notice and gave them a further 7 days to respond.
4. Took out small claims summons on dealer.
5. They filed a defence (this means it will end up in court). Their defence in essence was that the car had a warranty and had not failed whilst it was under the warranty therefore not their problem.
6. Went to court, judge explained that the issue of warranty was irrelavent and agreed the part was not sufficiently durable and found in my favour for the whole amount of the claim.

My car had done 60,000 miles at the time and did have a full volvo service history. The latter I do not see as a requirement as I would expect if the dealer wished to claim that the service history was an issue they would need to explain why and prove it had an impact on the problem.
The dealer was taken to court as they are who we (the owner's) have a contract with, not Volvo UK (sadly).
Not sure about a warranty on the replacement but as you say if I can do it once......
I hope that more people will do this, as the more that do the more chance there is of volvo backing down.

If you want any more info let me know.

[terry_cunnane]

Model, Mileage, Service History and length of ownership.



It's a V70 T5 2000. The ETM has been replaced twice.
It was a leased car originally and I have the history. In August 2002 at 115623miles the ETM was changed for £388.79. At the same time the software update was £46.00 and a new throttle pedal was £88.00.
Ownership changed and the next replacement was in February 2003 at only 123860 miles! Cost including software download was £539.38. Seems incredible but I think the owner didn't realise it had been done before (by a different garage. I expect the garage new though).
I am the third owner and am waiting..........................??

[timh30]

Surely the statement from the judge that the component was not fit for purpose is the key thing. Volvo dealerships do not design or make the cars, they just sell/maintain them. So your success does point toward a possible avenue against Volvo cars UK.

Oli

Unfortunately it does not set a legal presedent. Basically the process was as follows:
1. At time of repair made it clear I was not happy to pay for the repair (do not see that as essential)
2. Write to dealer (recorded delivery) stating that under the sale of goods act I wished to claim a refund for the cost of the replacement, as the item was not fit for purpose as it was insufficiently durable and therefore they were in breach of contract. Gave them 14 days to respond.
3. Predictable response (last word off) from dealer. Issued final notice and gave them a further 7 days to respond.
4. Took out small claims summons on dealer.
5. They filed a defence (this means it will end up in court). Their defence in essence was that the car had a warranty and had not failed whilst it was under the warranty therefore not their problem.
6. Went to court, judge explained that the issue of warranty was irrelavent and agreed the part was not sufficiently durable and found in my favour for the whole amount of the claim.

My car had done 60,000 miles at the time and did have a full volvo service history. The latter I do not see as a requirement as I would expect if the dealer wished to claim that the service history was an issue they would need to explain why and prove it had an impact on the problem.
The dealer was taken to court as they are who we (the owner's) have a contract with, not Volvo UK (sadly).
Not sure about a warranty on the replacement but as you say if I can do it once......
I hope that more people will do this, as the more that do the more chance there is of volvo backing down.

If you want any more info let me know.

[Wardair]

Dear Forum Members,

This is to advise you that after a sustained campaign I was able to secure a full refund of the cost of replacing the ETM on my vehicle.

Thank you to 'Andy eclipse' for providing information on his small claims case which was most helpful.

I would recommend all forum members who feel they are/have been unfairly treated by Volvo (via their dealer) to pursue a refund or major contribution to the repair.

It is clear that Volvo have very little to defend their UK policy on ETM replacement and the owners that are prepared to seek legal redress (after taking advice) will probably find they could get Volvo to reconsider their level of contribution.

Good luck

Wardair

[SodaFarl]

Mine is to be replaced shortly with 20% goodwill gesture. I mentioned in my other post that I will write Volvo, however I am also going to persue the matter and take Volvo to the small claims court! It is a shame really as I have no arguement with the dealer as they are really good and try to help as much as possible, it is just the principle of it all!!

Thanks to the guys who have been through the entire process, it is inspiring!!

Many thanks.

SF

[Wardair]

For the record I had no real issue with my dealer, they originally offered a contribution when Volvo UK said they would only match anything that the dealer offered. However, The main dealers are accomplices in the plan to avoid admitting there is a problem (actually deceiving owners!) and allowing the hapless uniformed individuals to pay for the ETM replacement.

There is no case to make against Volvo under sale of goods act as there is no contract with them. It may be possible to take legal action against Volvo but this would be costly and would require a lot of owners to register to support a claim. This was one approach I considered but the numbers of people coming forward via this web site was too low. The dealer who supplies the car or charges you for the replacement of the ETM (the unfit for purpose component) is the organisation that you need to take action against. There may also be a case against any dealer who charged for replacing an ETM previously (with a previous owner) and the replacement has now failed, so if you have the service history you may have a case to get a free replacement.

Good luck

Wardair

[arvs31260]

The Hull based dealer who offered to carry out a full check to see if the problem was the ETM or other component and charged me £90 for the privelege, has not listed that they checked the ETM. They told me the ETM was not at fault in relation to the coughing/misfire I experience at hi revs on acceleration. They are adamant the problem rests with the injectors and recommend changing all 5 at a cost to me of £500. However, they again will not confirm if they will reimburse the cost of the injectors should they not cure the problem. I was advised that they would consider the injectors '2nd hand' having been put on a vehicle.
I am now at the point where I consider I should try a different dealer and let them make another diagnosis.
I have just tanked up with some BP Ultimate as recommended by the local Bosch service centre who said that I should try fuel before embarking on changing the injectors. I agreed to give it a go because I will only pay another £15 across 3 tanks full over a normal fuel up of 95 octane.
So in about another 1200 miles I should have moved a step closer to another avenue.
It seems that when Volvo changed the fuel management and ignition systems, they chose expensive parts which I am advised can only be obtained via a dealer/volvo authorised parts seller.
Any more pointers on tactics would be appreciated. I am still convinced there is an ETM issue on my car. The new software will of course have told the diagnostics that there is no fault there so how can a dealer make a verbal statement and not substantiate it with a written one. :mumbles:

[Oli]

Hey Arvs31260,

Certainly sounds like ETM symptoms, but could indeed be something else too. I wouldn't know about it being the injectors, but have you had the throttle body and breathers cleaned out? has the fuel filter been changed lately?

I'd be going for a second opinion. Just make sure the other dealer you find is not in the same group. And don't tell them what the current place has said the problem is. Simply explain the problem and let them come up with their own conclusion.

Also, don't know if there's an equivalent to RT Mechanics or SWAutos in your area, but might be worth trying to find a Volvo indy too.

Hope you get this fixed soon and cheaply.

Oli

[Andy_eclipse]

Dear Forum Members,

This is to advise you that after a sustained campaign I was able to secure a full refund of the cost of replacing the ETM on my vehicle.

Thank you to 'Andy eclipse' for providing information on his small claims case which was most helpful.

I would recommend all forum members who feel they are/have been unfairly treated by Volvo (via their dealer) to pursue a refund or major contribution to the repair.

It is clear that Volvo have very little to defend their UK policy on ETM replacement and the owners that are prepared to seek legal redress (after taking advice) will probably find they could get Volvo to reconsider their level of contribution.

Good luck

Wardair

Well done mate, I am glad you had some success. The more people that do this the more chance that Volvo UK will give up and do the right thing.

Andy

[Bob]

I have just added THIS (http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/etm.shtml) web page following an email from VCUK

Bob

[p.swan]

Many thanks. Just the info I need. Volvo were apparently issuing public statements about this subject back in February 2006, and yet Rybrook Warrington swear blind they knew nothing about this issue when they sold me my car in April 2006! Most interesting! My case against them and Volvo UK continues.....

[Wardair]

Dear Bob,

I would really like to see what VCUK said in their email to you.

The plain facts are that VCUK failed to respond (at all!) to my letters to them and the company has still failed to get it's dealers to advise all current owners of affected vehicles of the potential failure of their ETM's.

The web page you have posted is only highlighting that they feel this is not a warranty issue. I think from all the correspondence I have read and the number of cases of repeat ETM failure then this is definitely a warranty issue.

The fact that a court ruled that the goods were not fit for purpose confirms this and I am sure if Ford was not in such a financial crisis ($12.7Bn loss last year) then a different stance might be taken.

VCUK and their dealers continue to behave like this is not a widespread and well known problem which I find disgraceful. I am pretty sure if you ring a dealer today give them the details of your car and and advise them of the classic ETM failure symptoms they will not mention this is a well known issue.
At best you will get the "we need to check and possibly clean the ETM plus do a software upgrade " story, which we all know is not a proper solution but merely a delay tactic.

Wardair

[BEAUREPAIRE]

Dear Forum member,

Having seen many threads posted regarding the ETM failures I felt it would be appropriate to request some data regarding how this is being managed by Volvo Car UK and their dealer network.

I would therefore like all forum members who have had their ETM replaced to submit a short post to register this giving date and what if any contribution Volvo Car UK offered towards the cost of replacement. Actual costs incurred would also be useful to assertain if pricing policy has changed.

Please also provide basic car data as follows:-

Model, Mileage, Service History and length of ownership.

I intend to collate this data and if as I suspect it shows that Volvo Car UK have been somewhat evasive on this issue (allowing some customers to pay in full for replacement if they are unaware of the issue or not made a fuss) or actually have a policy that results in customers being treated in an inconsistent manner then I will submit the data to BBC Watchdog in an effort to get the matter raised again and everyone treated fairly.

Please advise any other forum members who you know have had an ETM failure.

Many thanks

Wardair

Hi Wardair,

I believe Volvo UK have a very confused and 'silent' policy amongst their dealer network concerning ETM problems. Had it not been for the Watchdog programme last year, I would still be in the dark re this issue. My 2001 model year T5 V70 has covered 121,000 trouble free miles and has been serviced, as recommended, by Volvo dealers John Darke of Lincoln and Stratstone of Derby.
It was booked in for a 126,000 service schedule last week, and had I not taken a copy of the Watchdog report, highlighting the ETM problem, Stratstone service advisors would not even have broached the subject, and the car would have had a standard service. After raising the issue, they agreed that my car was one of the affected models that required a software upgrade, a throttle clean, and cleaning of the breathers. Now, not being technically minded, (Ijust drive the cars), i was disappointed at their attitude and lack of explanation and they blatently tried to pass it off as nothing to worry about and that the American authorities had over-reactedin a recall. Now although my ETM has not failed, they said the software upgrade would cure any potential problem.
I believe that this is a safety related issue and that Volvo UK should undertake a recall to replace ETM's on affected cars.
Finally, when I got my invoice for the service (£600 !!), the service advisor had noted on the invoice a free of charge Throttle clean, and cleaning of breathers, but no written confirmation of the software upgrade,

[Wardair]

Hi BEAUREPAIRE,

Your experience is identical to that which I and many other owners received when they contacted their dealer. I am absolutely sure that all service managers have been given directions on the ETM along the lines of 'do not admit any liability' although this directive is probably not in writing and was probably issued via the dealer managers/owners.

I still do not understand why VCUK has not instructed all dealers to advise owners of the affected vehicles to get their car checked.

I too believe that without the software upgrade then this is potentially a safety issue. After the software upgrade the failure characteristics are probably not considered a safety risk, although I have yet to see any document that advises owners of the ETM failure modes.

The Institution of Engineering and Technology standard IEC 61508 requires that safety critical systems are designed and engineered to comply with IEC 61508. This compliance is demonstrable through design documents including system failure mode analysis.

From below you will see both 'fly by wire' operation and 'automobile engine management systems' are included in the list of systems to which this standard should be applied.

The Volvo ETM is actually a final actuator component in a 'fly by wire' throttle and hence I believe should be covered by this safety standard.

Perhaps a good question to ask Volvo Car UK is does the 'fly by wire' throttle on these 'older' vehicles comply with IEC 61508? If so where is the documentation on the design and failure modes? According to my dealer this document does not exist!

If this documentation is not available then the Health a Safety Executive might be interested in issuing a 'safety alert' to all operators of the Volvo cars with this design of ETM as even though Volvo are fully aware of the issue it is clear that they do not intend to advise/warn the owners/operators of these vehicles.

FYI:-

IEC 61508 applies to safety-related systems when one or more of such systems incorporate electrical and/or electronic and/or programmable electronic (E/E/PE)*devices. It covers possible hazards caused by failure of the safety functions to be performed by the E/E/PE safety-related systems, as distinct from hazards arising from the E/E/PE equipment itself (for example electric shock etc).* It is generically based and applicable to all E/E/PE safety-related systems irrespective of the application.

Good luck

Wardair

[Wardair]

Sorry left the list of devices of the last post:-

The range of E/E/PE*safety-related systems to which IEC 61508 can be applied includes:

emergency shut-down systems,
fire and gas systems,
turbine control,
gas burner management,
crane automatic safe-load indicators,
guard interlocking and emergency stopping systems for machinery,
medical devices,
dynamic positioning (control of a ship's movement when in proximity to an offshore installation),
fly-by-wire operation of aircraft flight control surfaces,
railway signalling systems (including moving block train signalling),
variable speed motor drives used to restrict speed as a means of protection,
automobile indicator lights, anti-lock braking and engine-management systems, remote monitoring, operation or programming of a network-enabled process plant,
an information-based decision support tool where erroneous results affect safety.

[bluedog]

Hi,
Just wanted to add my V70 to the list of ETM failures. Doing 65mph on the A1overtaking large lorry, not amused. Quite a frightening experience.

Blue dog

[doofus]

Hi Wardair

I bought my 2001 S60 3 weeks ago unaware of the ETM problems. It has 116000 on the clock and is currently showing no signs of failure - touch wood. But worried about losing power on the motorway, I took it into my local main agent in Yeovil, Somerset. The service manager listened to my concerns and immediately offered a free ETM clean and software download. When I said that I was reluctant to meddle as the car runs beautifully, he pointed out that this was a safety issue and in his opinion I should book it in. I asked exactly what they would do and he explained that they would clean and install new software which prevented the car from going into possibly hazardous limp mode as identified by Watchdog. I queried whether this would affect other codes which still needed to put the car into limp mode and he said no.

The dealer seemed very helpful and has offered to do the work at my convenience FOC. My concerns are if I have the work done, how long will it last given that I have no problems currently and then will I end up having to pay for a replacement ETM when the clean up fails as they all seem to? And given that I use the car frequently for motorway use, the thought of a loss of power is very scary.

I applaud your efforts and hope that this rather inconclusive email at least expresses yet another Volvo owners fears for your research. Please feel free to add my name to any correspondence with Watchdog or other. Pete

[Wardair]

Bluedog & Doofus,

Thank you for your inputs. Sorry to hear you had a scare Bluedog I can drop another note to Watchdog if you want. If you care to email me at Wardair@breathe.com I will pass on your details to them.

Regarding your vehicle Doofus, I think you need to ask the dealer these questions and make a note of the responses, or if possible get them to write you a letter. I have heard of vehicles with high mileage before failure but I believe your ETM must be close to wearing out if it has not been changed before. See the vexed volvo site for full technical details :-

http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/tech_info.html

Suggest you ask about VCUK contribution to repair costs now in preparation for the failure.

regards

Wardair

[bluedog]

Hi Wardair and Doofus,

Just to let you know that following the ETM clean out and upgrade my V70 is not running brilliantly. Picked it up on Friday night and rang the Volvo dealership on Saturday morning to voice my concerns. The rev counter sticks on deceleration at around 1400 revs for a few seconds before returning to idle. I have been advised to drive it for a few days to see if it settles down!

Apparently I would have to pay for any further work or replacement but I'm reading that they only last 10K. miles

Driving it today, what was more disconcerting, was the sudden two second surge in speed that occurs. On one occassion this was on a left hand bend and felt as though I was suddenly being accelerated into oncoming traffic.

As a loyal Volvo owner (5th car) I am disappointed in their stance in the UK.
I need the room the estate offers but my good lady is now frightened to drive the car and would like to move on. Anyone who suggests that this is not a sfety issue must be barking!

Thanks, bluedog

[bluedog]

Spent all day in the V70 today around the North East.

It now appears that I have intermitent cruise control to add to my woes - could this new syndrome be ETM related as it was perfect before it went into the dealer? Now sometimes it works and sometimes it does'nt. Help

Bluedog

[Chris_Rogers]

Yes, cruise control failure is a symptom of ETM problems.

[Agostino]

Hi Wardair.

I applaud your efforts, and will support you all the way.

You can add me to your list.

My V70 has not had any problems yet, but I had the upgrade carried out as a precaution. I've covered 6000 miles since with no problems.

V70 SE 2002
51000 miles
Full service history

Regards,
Agostino

[Wardair]

Thank you to everyone for all your posts on this thread.

The fact is, I am now losing interest because keeping the issue focussed is almost impossible (just look at the number of threads you need to review to find out what is happening on the ETM issue).

I believe VCUK have also defused the situation in the UK by reducing the cost of an ETM replacement (long overdue but this step will at least benefit those with failures in the future).

The ongoing issue is that people are still being mislead or placated by 'cleaning and software upgrades'. Please remember if your ETS light came on and they cleared the fault by cleaned your ETM then it is definitely 'on the way out', cleaning it is only a delay tactic and the software upgrade makes the forthcoming failure happen in a way that is 'safe' (basically less scary than it used to be).

I will continue to visit the threads occasionally and wish everyone the best in getting a fair deal.

Finally, remember Watchdog is an entertainment program - do they really want to understand any issue and more importantly do they care or do they just want to entertain the masses? I will leave you to make up your own minds

Best wishes and good luck

Wardair::speechless-smiley-6

[keefrto1]

I have just bought a 2000 C70 T5 GT AUTO yesterday and through threads in the forum , I discussed the issue surrounding the ETM. I also spoke with the Volvo dealer who last serviced the vehicle. I asked the dealer who was selling the car to book it in with Volvo to get the ETM upgrade and I drove from Edinburgh back up to Abdnshire and so far no issue. I am not sure what/when to expect anything to happen but my vehicle has only done 43k so maybe this will affect me later on?

[volvo2]

Wardair,

It is all very depressing. It was me who repeatedly pestered BBC Watchdog until they ran the original ETM storey. I have since attempted to encourage them to follow up but they no longer seem particularly interested. Maybe the storey is no longer good television.

I believe it is VOSA who have effectively let Volvo UK off the hook. VOSA have been remarkably complacent and surprisingly appear to be in the pocket of the manufacturer. VOSA certainly have not provided a good service to the consumer in this case.

M Smith

[insider]

I had the standard "No UK problem" , American Emissions issue, nothing to do with market here, it's all a load of hot air, Watchdog were scaremongering. No upgrade no nothing.

It took a copy of the TNN stuff, 2 emails and 4 phone calls the VCUK customer services before it was sorted.

However another dealer had no issue with it and never lied, so there it went. Some do lie i'm afraid and I think it's an official Edict from VCUK to deny the issues, all of the comments are far too similar and it just leads me to believe that VCUK have told them all to do the same.

It took one hell of a fight to get mine sorted.

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,
I have just bought a 2000 C70 T5 GT AUTO yesterday and through threads in the forum , I discussed the issue surrounding the ETM. I also spoke with the Volvo dealer who last serviced the vehicle. I asked the dealer who was selling the car to book it in with Volvo to get the ETM upgrade and I drove from Edinburgh back up to Abdnshire and so far no issue. I am not sure what/when to expect anything to happen but my vehicle has only done 43k so maybe this will affect me later on?
Yes, this will affect you at some later stage. Right about the 100K mileage point...

As I have posted a number of times, no software upgrade, nor throttle body cleaning, no matter how through, will ever solve what is a mechanical failure of a part.
Don't care what the american issue is - emissions issue appears to be a fudge.
Don't care what Volvo Uk say either, they are lying.
If the ETM made by Magneti Marelli was so wonderful, why did Volvo switch to Bosch units?

When it fails you will be billed for its replacement (which will be a reconditioned unit!!!) take the dealer AND Volvo UK to the county court for a FULL REFUND, details on the case and arguements have been posted in this ETM forum from someone who has successfully sued a dealer. Unfortunately it was only the dealer they took to court..

Des. . . ;)

[keefrto1]

Why is this such an issue for VUK as there is a difference with treating customers here or is it that we don't complain enough and we put up with things?

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,
Why is this such an issue for VUK as there is a difference with treating customers here or is it that we don't complain enough and we put up with things?
Had everyone who had an affected car had gone to court and sued their asses, this would have been resolved a few years ago..
But, given that people dealt with this on an individual basis, they paid up.
Fortunately, the statute of limitations means that people who paid up before six years ago can register a case in the county court. NOW.. Against dealer and Volvo UK.. :D
It would have been better had there been a "class action" case taken against Volvo UK...

Des. . . ;)

[Stavros]

Hi

I have a Volvo C70 2.00 T registered in 2000 on a w reg plate it has just covered 61,000 miles and I am the 3rd owner how do I find out if it has an ETM issue and what is the cost should it fail as it appears that everyone expects it to happen by 100,000 miles. I love the Car although I did test a Volvo C70 2.000Trag top the other day only to be dissapointed by its ride even though it was only 2 years old and 14,000 miles on the clock.

I didn't know about the ETM issue until I joined this forum the other day which gave real meaning to the saying Ignorance is Bliss!!!

Stavros

[aidanconway]

In case it helps anyone, I have had trouble with the /etm on my 2001 V70 for a while now. I have been reading the posts for a while and eventually I rang around both volvo main dealers and specialists. What I initially realised was this: the volvo 'specialists' are all still charging around the £600 mark for and etm replacement, same you would think as volvo main dealer. However I was told by one honest specialist to hassle volvo car about it and they would contribute, so I did. Very nice lady told me that the price of the unit had now dropped significantly (probably due to the number of them going into production!!!) and that volvo car would further contribute 20% towards it, meaning I would get a new ETM for £200!!! With this information and a file number to hand, I booked the car in at the main dealer in Coventry last week.Whilst booking it in the service chap told me that I may not indeed require a new etm and that they would put the car on a diagnostic computer, clean out the throttle body and update the software as a 1st step. This then is what happened last thursday, but on the way home I had the same hesitance and erratic idling / stalling, as if nothing had been done. This annoyed me so I booked the car back in with them. They apologised and I wen tto have a new ETM fitted today. When I picked it up, I handed over my £200 and upon pulling out of the forecourt noticed the hesitance again. I travelled a few hundred yards and had to return to them. I was told it would settle in in time...On my way home the car got worse, so I pulled off the road and phoned them, to be told that they could not look at it until next friday week. Angered, I went to another dealer on my way home, who phoned them for me and told me I should not have accepted the car back in the condition it was in. The original dealer then agreed to look at it this afternoon. So I travelled all the way back to them, to be told that yes I could drop off the car, but that they would not look at it until tomorrow at best and in any case there is a fault with a knock sensor which they would need to order!!! I was livid. Why had I forked out for a ETM when I still have the same fault now with a new one fitted. Why did they not sort out the knock sensor issue BEFORE replacing the ETM? Anyhow I had to come away again, intending to go back up tomorrow. But later this evening I got a call from them saying that the sensor would have oto be ordered from Sweden and would not be in for a number of days. Moral of the story? Tollgate Coventry are thieves and liars. There is no way possible that if my car had been road tested that they could have missed the fault, but as they are having to do the job now on the cheap, as instucted by volvo car, they are not interested in doing it properly. I would have preferred to have paid more money and have had the work carried out properly. Now I do not know whether or not the new ETM is faulty also. I can see it happening, replace the knock sensor, that doesn't cure it, eventually replace the ETM again, days and days lost. And to top it all off, they broke the little hatch where the computer plugs in, under the steering wheel. Sorry to rant, but these so called dealers need their a*ses kicked. Problem now is that they are not interested in doing these. They get nothing or very little for cleaning and very little for refitting. Has anyone else had an experience like this? Any help would be appreciated as my patience is wearing very thin with this. Never again will I buy a Ford / Volvo!!!:angry2:

[Andys101]

Being a mechanic i have seen lots of faults that reoccur on the same vehicle time after time, all of which have been out of the manufactures warranty. This etm fault on Volvo's is no different to any other fault on other vehicles, to name one - head gasket on the 1800cc rover k series engine.
My car is a 99my s70 with 80000 miles on the clock - 8 years old, and i don't hold Volvo responsible for the etm fault. Am i the only one who feels like this ??

[T-5ones]

Being a mechanic i have seen lots of faults that reoccur on the same vehicle time after time, all of which have been out of the manufactures warranty. This etm fault on Volvo's is no different to any other fault on other vehicles, to name one - head gasket on the 1800cc rover k series engine.
My car is a 99my s70 with 80000 miles on the clock - 8 years old, and i don't hold Volvo responsible for the etm fault. Am i the only one who feels like this ??

I agree with what you are saying. These sort of problems are a common problem of car manufacture but I personally cant understand why Volvo UK have had such a poor initial attitude towards the problem including the information through the dealer network. The situation that has arisen could have been minimised. Other recalls on the same models are just delt with.

Do you know of any other fault in any car that was handled in such a poor way?

[Andys101]

Landrover's TD5 engine had a problem with a bolt that holds the oil pump on, the bolt would snap, you would loose all your oil pressure and your engine is then f###ed. This wasn't a small cost either, i think it was well over £5000. They were trying everything to get out of it.

[crispy duck]

I've just had the ETM cleaned and a software update on my 2002 s60 bifuel at 124k miles. The issue I had was hunting idle in the first 5 minutes from cold, and on a cold morning when pulling up to or out a junction in the first mile it would invariably stall. Not nice when pulling out onto a main road, even when trying to anticipate the problem. The work was done at Inchcape main dealers with no hassle as it was on the list of affected models and all the problems have gone away, and the idle is about 2-300rpm higher.

Hope this feedback helps.

[Agostino]

Being a mechanic i have seen lots of faults that reoccur on the same vehicle time after time, all of which have been out of the manufactures warranty. This etm fault on Volvo's is no different to any other fault on other vehicles, to name one - head gasket on the 1800cc rover k series engine.
My car is a 99my s70 with 80000 miles on the clock - 8 years old, and i don't hold Volvo responsible for the etm fault. Am i the only one who feels like this ??


Negatori!! You are not alone. Being a fellow Mechanic, it all depends on how one treats a car.
I had my last car a VOLVO 740, for 15 years. And I can categorically state that it ((she) the car silly!!) never broke down in any way/shape or form whatsoever! So there!

[Oli]

Negatori!! You are not alone. Being a fellow Mechanic, it all depends on how one treats a car.
I had my last car a VOLVO 740, for 15 years. And I can categorically state that it ((she) the car silly!!) never broke down in any way/shape or form whatsoever! So there!

They don't make em like the used to then. And our family 740 GLE was always very reliable.

The ETM complaint is that it is a very poor design, not that you can't expect things to wear out. The MM ETM should never have made it into a car, unlike the bosch replacement which does not suffer the same issues. If the original part was so good - why is there a specific warning light on the dash just for this component?

£200 for a replacement if you've reached 100k maybe ok. But until recently, people and lots of them, were being charged £600+

Read Vexed Volvo for the full jackanory

Oli

[big_alalas]

well, here is my story:
bought the C70 6 months ago, 1 previous owner, 89k miles
I had since the engine management light coming on ad off, maybe it would be off for 3 weeks, on for 1 week.... and i ignored it.... until the ETS light came on, and the car slowed down dramatically.
since then i looked on the web, found all about it through this forum, took it to dealers at startstone west Bridgford at Nottingham, and this is the story of the events:
1) they said that they would charge me 47 quid just for reading the ECU which is fair enough
2) next day they said that there were 3 errors: one was about the throttle module, hence the ETS light on, one error was for the air mass sensor or something like that and one error for the oxygen sensor. They reccomended we CHANGE the ETM module first and see how it goes. I highlighted "change" as you will see why later
3) anyway they did all that and then i went to pay

The bill was for £237, and it had labour for reading the ECU and instaling new software and the rest for replacing the Throttle Module Housing. I asked the guy there to see if Volvo are willing to partially refund me and he said that I should pay the full amount first and then he would try to chase Volvo UK if I entitled to refund and he'd call me back... havent heard anything for a week... so, far have not had the ECU ligt back on, so the last 2 errors he was talking about might be somehow related to the ETM fault... who knows?

Anyway, i was thinking that they conned me properly, as I just realised that they did not even change the module itself for what i paid, just the housing whatever that is! I will call them tomorrow about it and if it needs be I will take them to small claims court too... already started my claim @ https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco/claim_menu.jsp

Apart from that, I love the C70, it is a brilliant car, no wonder the saint chose it at the famous movie! It looks stylish, it feels good inside, and the power is phenomenal! Had 3 SAAB 2.3 Aeros before, but I am slowly drawn into the volvo camp for good.

[Oli]

Hey Big Alalas,

Personally I think £43 to read the codes is incredible - what a con.

Anyway, what makes you think they just replaced the cover.

The deal is supposed to be £250 to replace the ETM now (to include free software update). This is compared to £650+ not long ago.

If you only got a cover change, then you've been conned big time and need to take it up with trading standards as you've been miss sold. however, can't believe they've done that, and in that case your charge is less than it could have been.

Note that most of us, not all mind, think that it should be a free replacement as it is quite clearly a very poor design and should never have been used for this application.

You could also talk to Volvo Customer Services.

How does it run now though

Keep us posted.

Oli

[big_alalas]

Here is all the recent updates:
The reason I thought it was the housing only is because the receipt they gave me it said
Part Number: 8644347 THROTTLE HOUSING 136.00
Part Number: 9438425 ETM RELOAD 0.50
Total inc VAT 234.41


As I said in my last thread, the chap at the dealer's said that he would call VOLVO to see if I can have some sort of refund, he never did, I then emailed Volvo Central Cust. services:
Here is their reply:

"
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:52:49 +0100
> From: custcare@volvocars.com

Thank you for your recent contact.
>
> I can confirm that if your Electronic Throttle module was replaced we would contribute 20% towards the costs of replacing this, which I have checked your file and can confirm that the dealership contacted us on 23/05/2007 and we offered 20% towards the replacement of your ETM.
>
> If you had your ETM upgarde and clean before the ETM unit was replaced then we would cover costs 100% for the ETM upgrade and clean.
>
> If you have been charged for this then you can send in your invoices to the address below, and we will investigate this further for you.
>
> Volvo Customer Relations
> Whitley CRC
> Abbey Road
> Coventry
> CV3 4LF.

Of course, althought they said that they had already refunded 20% on the 26th.... the dealer I went to never called me for that!! I only found out because I emailed central volvo, bloody pennypinchers they are Volvo in W.Bridgford @ Nottingham!!

Anyway, I then emailed back the central volvo lady some time after to say that noone had contacted me, and here is what she said:

"
Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:33:24 AM
I have today contacted Stratstone West Bridgford, and spoken with Jeff in the Service Department.

I can advise we have already contributed 20% towards the replacement of the ETM, Jeff has advised he will be in touch shortly to arrange for the contribution to be given to you.
"

Anyway, it looks i will get 20% back, but to be honest I thought 234 is better than 600 quoted in several threads, and like Oli said, the price has gone down a lot. It is still ridiculous that they only offer 20% back however, without considering the car is fully Volvo serviced etc...... but anyway, better than nothing.... but it is not about the money as such, it is the principle that matters, and in my book Volvo in W.Bridgford are pennypinchers and taking the **** of their customers....

... and you know what I would never take my car there for service, I am trying to find a good specialist around the area

Last, you asked me how it runs now, it is fine now... And all the sensors that had lit up previously, oxygen, air mass etc.... they said it was probably due to the ETM fault anyway..... do i believe them? I guess so.... I wish I had become a car expert and a doctor and a lawyer sometimes :) but then again, not really ! quite happy in telecomms for now


Oli, one question from me (last one)
The Service came up now, and I thought it was rather accurate, considering I needed the next service according to the serv.book @ 92000 and the light came up @ 91850
Any idea how it works? Or is it just a countdown miles reset feature??
Thanks

[Oli]

Apologies for the late reply, been away a lot for the past few months, no time for regular logging on.

Anyway, the service light is simply based on the interval between services, not on any clever analysis of when the car might need a service. Mine seems to come on more often than that, but there's a simple trick to reset.

Turn ignition key to position II but don't start the car. Press the trip reset and hold in for 30 seconds until the service light starts flashing. Then switch off. Now turn on properly and the light should be extinguished. Works on My Classic V70.

Oli

[Clan]

SERVICE LIGHT

There are three conditions which bring on the light :

Time , Every 12 months
Distance, Every 12000 miles
Engine Hours , Every 750 Hours

So althought not analyzing any engine parameters it should cover all eventualities such as low mileage users , very high mileage users , and even taxi work .

The three parameters are programmable so can be altered at the dealer to bring the light on at a certain point if that is ever needed ..

[jefflugs]

hi guys jefflugs here new member i have two v70,s one has intermittent failure of ets/etm but im also getting clock dials/instruments freezing or slumping no readings on any clocks does anybody know if these problems are related sorry if your confused im having both
problems with 1 car

[vivton]

had ets repair done may 2006 on volvo s70at stratstone volvo stoke on trent £533 with promise of software upgrade when out, still not heard . Wrote and rang volvo for refund but no joy although they do it in us free. now abs light on so failed MOTvery dissapointed owner

[WesteeT5]

I dont live in the uk, but you can sign me up too. Volvo New Zealand quoted me $1864.45 (part only) for a new ETM for my 2001 S60.It is disgusting that volvo are making a profit on these things, surely they could sell them for cost
considering the part should have been recalled. Clients in small countries like NZ seem to get walked on, obviously Volvo don't think it important to keep used cars buyers happy. After 4 months of having the car, i don't think i will have another. I have just bought a $800 mitsubishi mirage for my wife to get to work as the $20,000 volvo is not reliable enough LOL!

[Chubs]

Recently had problems (ETS warning on ) - vehicle kept going into limp mode becoming more frequent. Vehicle is a 2000 2.4 V70 with 163,000 miles.
Contacted Volvo Uk direct and invited them to advise of current situation in light of small claims court action.

[Court : Horsham County Court - Claim Number : 6QZ59691 - Judge: District Judge Taylor - Claimant: Andrew Worthington - Defendant: Hapstead Gatwick - Claim: Case was based on the Sale of Goods Act 1989 - The Judgement: In summarizing the Judge stated that he was here to decide whether or not the ETM fitted to my car was fit for purpose under the sale of goods act as claimed as it was not sufficiently durable. In this matter he found in favour. He then stated that he also needed to determine if use of the vehicle had in this case contributed to the early failure of the part. Again he found in my favour]

I await Volvo's reply ( 31/12/07) Meanwhile I have booked the vehicle into my local Volvo agent - Stratstone's of Plymouth, advising them that with the help of this website the ETM is chief suspect and to ensure they have one in stock. There was no mention by them that this was "a fault".


Will update events as they unfold as it may help others.

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,

Be interested to know how this proceeds for you...

I would start chasing VCUK next Monday on a daily basis! And keep at them...

Having said that, the cost of this replacement has dropped in recent times to about £200. More costly than a throttle cable but not the £1000 that it used to be...

I would imagine that, if it hasn't already been done, Stratstones will do an initial clean and a software update which should be free.

Des. . . ;)

[Marvic18]

Hey guys, just started having problems with my 2001 S60 just before christmas, wouldn't start and on the odd occasion it would it would just die. Phoned my local volvo dealer and said I thought it might be an Etm issue. Had the throttle body clean and software download done. To cut to the chase after 2 weeks the thing wont start at all, phoned dealer again and asked how much for a replacement Etm, I was told the good news would be £650 with a 20% contribution from volvo. I thought the price of these things had come right down!

[Vlad]

Can I just clarify, posters have stated that replacement of the ETM should be @ £250.......does this include VAT and labour or is this just for the part.

The reason I ask is that Stratstone Reading have just charged me an all in price of £363 to replace the ETM on my T5 V70.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[pyaap]

Can I just clarify, posters have stated that replacement of the ETM should be @ £250.......does this include VAT and labour or is this just for the part.

The reason I ask is that Stratstone Reading have just charged me an all in price of £363 to replace the ETM on my T5 V70.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Well, my cousin just had the ETM replaced on his car and was charged approximately £145 incl VAT for the part. That means that Stratstone Reading have charged you approx £218 for the labour, which for between 1.5-2hrs work works out at an hourly rate of between £110-£145 (incl VAT)!!!!

There are a number of dealers out there who really do have a laugh though; the very same cousin was told by his local dealer in Welwyn Garden City (Piling?) that they would charge him £50+VAT just to read the fault codes on his car - any additional corrective work would be extra. For a procedure that takes no more than 5-10mins (esp with VIDA and a bluetooth DiCE), that would make their labour rate approximately £300+VAT an hour (talk about getting fleeced)!!!! I guess some dealerships must have many "hungry" shareholders to feed...............

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,
Can I just clarify, posters have stated that replacement of the ETM should be @ £250.......does this include VAT and labour or is this just for the part.

The reason I ask is that Stratstone Reading have just charged me an all in price of £363 to replace the ETM on my T5 V70.

Any help would be much appreciated.
You always have the option of suing the buggers and getting all your money back... :)
If you do that don't forget to add VCUK to the case...

Des. . . ;)

[kevin derby uk]

I've just had the ETM cleaned and a software update on my 2002 s60 bifuel at 124k miles. The issue I had was hunting idle in the first 5 minutes from cold, and on a cold morning when pulling up to or out a junction in the first mile it would invariably stall. Not nice when pulling out onto a main road, even when trying to anticipate the problem. The work was done at Inchcape main dealers with no hassle as it was on the list of affected models and all the problems have gone away, and the idle is about 2-300rpm higher.

Hope this feedback helps.

if the courts feel volvo are at fault then who are we to disagree

[FatLadZ]

well ive just been looking at these

http://www.sacer.com.cn/ArticleShow.asp?ArticleID=100
http://www.sacer.com.cn/UploadFiles/20071117104436302.jpg

and looking at the component that fails this will replace that.
its not a simple DIY job though as the 3 contacts that connect to the electronics board is fused together rather than soldered.
i cant see why this cannot be soldered into place and a nice neat repair being done.

If that part was to be bolted in place it would not need to be initialised by volvo as nothing will have been altered electronically on the board.

Luckily the one i have taken to pieces looks like it has brand new carbon tracks on it so ill be saving those for when mine dies.
but if i can get my hands on some of those new type ill try them out on my car :)

[kevin derby uk]

Dear Forum member,

Having seen many threads posted regarding the ETM failures I felt it would be appropriate to request some data regarding how this is being managed by Volvo Car UK and their dealer network.

I would therefore like all forum members who have had their ETM replaced to submit a short post to register this giving date and what if any contribution Volvo Car UK offered towards the cost of replacement. Actual costs incurred would also be useful to assertain if pricing policy has changed.

Please also provide basic car data as follows:-

Model, Mileage, Service History and length of ownership.

I intend to collate this data and if as I suspect it shows that Volvo Car UK have been somewhat evasive on this issue (allowing some customers to pay in full for replacement if they are unaware of the issue or not made a fuss) or actually have a policy that results in customers being treated in an inconsistent manner then I will submit the data to BBC Watchdog in an effort to get the matter raised again and everyone treated fairly.

Please advise any other forum members who you know have had an ETM failure.

Many thanks

Wardair

dealer in derby want £380 fully fitted / etm on its own £200

[FatLadZ]

im still waiting back to hear from this firm
when i do hear back ill get a test sample and then be offerring the service of a permanent fix without the need of a reprogramme :)

[M4rky]

Hi all,

I will go for my ETM replacement on Tuesday (V70, 2000 with 83k on the clock) Triangle Volvo in London will charge me 250 quid all inc. (ETM+software+labour+VAT).

cheers

[wg53]

hi,
I have been waiting a couple of months for an ETM, how long did you have to wait to get yours?

Richard

[jase]

I've just had the etm replaced on my y reg v70 at 90k for about £350 from Harrats in Sheffield. When quizzed about the etm issue their response was that there was a software issue some time ago and they would not charge for a software update (though they were intending to originally charge me when it was thought to be just a software problem) but a new etm was "just one of those things". My car was also off the road for a week and a half waiting for the part with no hope of a replacement car.

[Mike Arnold]

I have recently purchased a 2002 C70 (71,000 miles) and I do not have a ETM problem. However, who knows what will happen tomorrow?

Being an electronics engineer I would be very interested to know the manner of the failure of these units as it is probably repairable.

Does anyone have a technical analysis? Even better, does anyone have a failed unit that I can dissect?

Living on borrowed time...

[Chris_Rogers]

http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/index.html

[scorpio stu]

Hi,
I am looking for a V70 at the moment around an X or Y reg..What is an ETM and how do I spot if its broken.
Cheers

[FatLadZ]

hooray my cars been hunting tonight
and then the ets light decided to come on :D
now i will be able to take apart the ets and replace the ends with a known good one that was fitted a few hundred miles before it was removed from a car.
ill let you know how i get on tomorrow :D
sod taking it to volvo main dealer and letting them get richer due to their own faulty goods.
it stinks but hey at least ill be good for a few more years :D (or maybe months)

[FatLadZ]

well took the etm apart this morning and replaced both ends
put it back together (took 2 hours in total)
started the car and reset the codes
and now its running sweet as a nut :)
sod paying to get it done by volvo
now im going to overhaul the old ends with a bottle of this stuff

http://i13.ebayimg.com/01/i/06/30/28/cc_1.JPG

just wish i could get my hands on a pair of those magnetic ends so that i can have a permanent fix

[VW1300]

Brilliant, let us know how the repair goes! Always thought there was a DIY fix

[FatLadZ]

well i drove over to Worksop straight after i posted here to get a can of saffron made up to paint my reversing sensors.
and i can confirm that the car feels ALOT faster and more responsive.
Also noticed that its smoother to pick up and crisper on the throttle.
In fact it feels amazingly great
so far done 30 miles in the car and it feels amazing :D
i cant believe how something like that can make such a difference or maybe its just because the ecu has gone back on the learning curve again as the batttery was disconnected.
Im actually looking forward to my drive tio work in the morning :D (even though ive got to go past markham moors new spaghetti mud jungle)

[KATANA MAN]

Where did you get the paint from. have you got a tel no for the supplier?

[FatLadZ]

theres a seller on ebay in america that sells it but i imagine farnells will sell it :)

[FatLadZ]

for the record ive done just over 450 miles since sunday and all is well :D

[KATANA MAN]

hello fatLadZ. You sound like a man who goes out and gets things done!

Respect!!!

I found the conductive paint on ebay USA and ordered a bottle of the stuff.How do you recommend the paint to be used? is it a matter of taking the black sensor ends off the ETM and then painting the surfaces inside with the paint?

Im sure a lot more people will be interested in this possible DIY fix!

Will you be trying this out on your spare ETM sensor ends?

If you do will you post your findings?

I have my car booked in for the software update next Friday but I dont think they have any ETMs even if mine is knackered. I dont think anyone has any as there is a waiting list for them.

I also cleaned my ETM out this morning with wynns carb / fuel injection cleaner and then reset the codes with a diagnostic machine but it made no difference apart from maybe running slightly better.When I turned the ignition off and back on again the fault codes had re-appeared they are P2120, P2121 and P2138 and says throttle pedal sensor circuit D and E voltage corelation. or something along those lines.
Will this be an ETM fault?

Any advice welcome!

Katana man

[FatLadZ]

i doubt the etm is the cause for those faults.

i will be testing the carbon paint but it will only be a thin coat painted on the tracks.
when you take the big plate off the bottom/top of the ETM you will need to dig out the sealent on both sides.
do this carefully!
then when all removed you will have to snip the ends off
(i used a sharp pair of snips)
its easy to remove them and resolder them on with a silver based solder :)
its a 3 hour job in all

id personally lightly paint 1 coat of the carbon paint on :)

[kevin derby uk]

OH well i can't stand it any more, bloody engine cutting out at junctions or corners, and not being able to steer the car. trading standerds say it's not dangerus, well i hope who ever said that drives a volvo and has a bloody crash. a good one at that. any way on with what i was going to post.

i'v phoned a few dealers and am pleased to say not one lied to me at all.

stratstone derby will phone me tomorow as he wants to find out if there is any new stance by volvo as he was sure he heard something

stratstone nottingham ETM only ing vat at 15% is £168
fully fitted ing vat at 15% is £286

mansfield ETM only £176 and fully fitted £275.


i,ll post about derby after they phone me.

[richie]

Hi, I'm another NZ Volvo owner with a stuffed ETM module, very keen to talk to you and hear how you finally resolved your situation. Currently Volvo NZ have referred me back to the dealer, they quoted me a similar price, totally unacceptable when you addthe labour etc...... currently the car is parked up as it will only "limp home". Cheers, Richard

[Pete-V70 D5 2003]

I think many of the problems we have are down to the crap fuel the cheapies like Tesco etc sell. On your old Anglia or Ford Escort it didnt really matter. On todays highly tuned and highly strung vehicles you are what you eat so to speak.

I had a 2001 V40 Volvo diesel that started to play up rotten with EGR issues and smoking like a trooper now and again. I started buying BP fuel and the problem went away and I got few more MPG. I doubted the logic, plus couldnt resist the clubcard points so I went back to Tesco fuel and within a few weeks the very same problems. (this was all after I had replaced the EGR without success)

Ford Transit 1994 2,5 DI.... run fine on Tesco fuel, though I did think I spotted the odd puffs off smoke in my mirrors. Went for an MOT and failed horrendously on smoke emissions.....run some forte additive and two tanks of BP. Sailed through the retest.

Now have a V70 D5 2003 and I wont be going anywhere near the cheap fuels.

I think a highly relevant question those of you having problems should ask is *where are you getting your fuel*?

All the best.

One thing we have learnt is just how bad Volvo as a company are these days, and hopefully none of us would ever buy a new one from them!

[hjm104]

Hi,

I have just bought an X reg v70 T5, my first Volvo. Previous owner had ETM replaced in 2006 at around 70K-ish by Motorworld Volvo Main Dealer (Wallingford). It appears fromt he invoice that they/Volvo UK agreed to give him a 20% good-will discount.

Car has done 102K to date and I am now facing a £300 bill for a new MAF having had car stall completely at 75mph on M25. Not too impressed so far.

[stonesracing]

I have been chasing this one since May with my local Volvo dealer (Marshall Volvo Peterborough) and they are not prepared to enter into any goodwill discount and Customer Service say there is nothing they are prepared to do. Marshall quoted me £341 to have the ETM module replaced which I thought was a tad too expensive! They also charge me £41 for diagnostic check which again I was not prepared to pay as it has been back and forth for 6 months or so and it was only after coming on here and chasing these threads etc. that I finally got them to agree with the ETM fault.

If anyone knows a cheaper (but not 'cheap') fix for this could they please let me know. My only alternative is to get rid of the car as I have had enough!

Kind Regards,

Ian

[Chris_Rogers]

Maybe the answer lies here:

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=63594

[largsmitch]

Mine started playing up in April 2008. The car would go into limp home mode. Spent £400 with local garages who on reflection were essentially stabbing in the dark. One of them replaced the actual accelerator pedal module at a cost of over £200 only for the problem to re-occur within days. Eventually, took it to Volvo dealer who cleaned ETM and did software upgrade free of charge. They did say that it could occur again and would require a ETM replacement and that I would be required to pay for it. Unfortunately, the dreaded engine system management required light has re-appeared. So far no breakdowns or limp home mode yet. Car is 2.4 (170bhp) it is a 2000 X plate. The mileage when problem happened was 92k.

[NobbyT]

Volvo S60 TS Auto 2001 -approx 50,000 miles. I was told by the mechanic that this part breaking is a very common problem, but no suggestion of contribution by Volvo. If you are having problems with 'searching' revs or revs going up and down, or fluctuating engine speed, this could be it.

Volvo have to replace the part and do a software upgrade, so there is clearly some kind of design fault. Please raise again with Watchdog, I will complain too!

I have been quoted £350 + VAT to fix the faulty electronic throttle body on my problem Volvo S60. (Just making sure that Google picks this up for everyone searching! ;)

I have been emailing customer relations, history to date:

24/1/09
> I have just had my car checked out by a main dealer and been informed
> that the electronic throttle body has broken and requires replacing. I
> understand from the dealer that this is a common problem.
>
> I am aware of the class court action against Volvo in Trew, et al. v.
> Volvo Cars of North America, and understand that they were succesful in
> presuading Volvo to replace the ETB's without charge. I would be
> grateful if you can confirm that there will be no charge for the
> replacement of this unit at a Volvo main dealer.

26/01/09
> Thank you for your e-mail.
>
> I must clarify that a recall was only launched in the US market and not
> in Europe. The situation in the USA is that they have extended their
> warranty on this component as a result of the USA's emissions laws.
> Different countries have different emissions regulations and to ensure
> continued compliance with local legislation the USA decided to extend
> the warranty period for the ETS to 10 years and 200,000 miles. As Volvos
> comply with UK emissions legislation, it is not our intention to launch
> a similar action in this country.
>
> Although we will not be covering the cost of this repair, we did
> significantly reduce the cost of this part and this reduction still
> applies.

02/02/09
Thank you for your response which I note.

I would be grateful if you can advise which UK Government agency has confirmed that Volvo has complied with emmissions regulations for my vehicle and others of similar age and class (as referred to in the US Court Judgement against Volvo).

Kind regards

02/02/09 Volvo reply

Thank you for your e-mail.

In the UK, vehicle emissions are monitored by checks which form part of the annual MOT test. Please consult your last MOT test certificate for verification that the MOT tester certified that your vehicle complied with regulations.

Its a bit of a cop out! I was told Volvos are swedish Rolls Royce, but no! They simply don't care. I'm up for a mass complain to Watchdog! Are there any Volvo review sites we can post to please? Can we get Parkers to cover this as a Volvo problem in thier write ups? Any contact in the motoring press who can write about this please?

[NobbyT]

Apparently Volvo think that it is quite good for this part to last 6 or 7 years!!!

Dear Volvo,

Thank you for your response which I note with increasing dissatisfaction.

The part and car is only 7 years old. I purchased the car almost a year ago, and the engine management fault light was on then, so I assume that the previous owner could not get to the bottom of the problem and so disposed of it and traded in his Volvo for a Mercedes Benz. (I was told by Volvo at Hemel Hempsted it was the service interval light re-setting itself and they thought they had fixed it). The part only lasted 6 years at most and possibly 5 or less. It would be interesting to find out how much he had spent without resolving the problem.

The essential issue to me is that this part is not of merchantable quality meaning that the car is not suitable for the purpose for which it was designed. It seems that Volvo is attempting to avoid responsibility for this.

If you are not prepared to make some concession as your last email made clear, I will now seek wider publicity and intiially contact Watchdog in the UK.

Kind regards

3/2/2009

Dear Sir

I must clarify that this part has lasted almost 8 years. In addition, we have significantly reduced the cost of the ETM and this reduction is still in place.

I am sorry that you remain dissatisfied however our position on this matter will not change

Volvo Customer Relations

02/02/09

Dear Volvo

Thank you for your response which I note.

The essential issue to me is that this part is not of merchantable quality meaning that the car is not suitable for the purpose for which it was designed. It seems that Volvo is attempting to avoid responsibility for this.

Kind regards

02/02/2009

Dear Sir

Thank you for your e-mail.

In the UK, vehicle emissions are monitored by checks which form part of the annual MOT test. Please consult your last MOT test certificate for verification that the MOT tester certified that your vehicle complied with regulations.

Volvo Customer Relations

02/02/2009

Thank you for your response which I note.

I would be grateful if you can advise which UK Government agency has confirmed that Volvo has complied with emmissions regulations for my vehicle and others of similar age and class (as referred to in the US Court Judgement against Volvo).

Kind regards

[wadey]

sorry to cross post but this "emissions" smoke screen won't work with me it's a safety issue no ifs or buts and the "cleaning" is just waffle. How can it be dirty on the inlet manifold side of the AIR FILTER?
Rubbish just rubbish, I'd contact my MP but she's to busy filling in expense claims

[martinj]

FYI I had the dreaded throttle body error code recovered by the RAC local non Volvo dealer cleaned the throttle body 320 mile drive home no problem. Next day 5 mile trip and into limp mode, checked it in to local main dealer who reported error code for the throttle body, could be all right for months or fail shortly, of on holiday soon so I had it replaced total cost £283.70. PItA but that seems to be the current price.

[mikealder]

I had mine fail on my year 2000 V70 with 110K on the clock, removed the part and sent it to bba remanufacturing (Rochester UK) which cost a total of £340 including postage and VAT, car was off the road for six days.
Its fine now, and the part was easy to remove, had I found this forum earlier I might have saved some cash, thankfully the days of driving home in "limp home" mode are over - Mike

[Buzzword]

My C70 2000 has just failed with only £54K on the clock I have spent the past week "discussing" this with volvo and the dealer network and getting nowhere. As this happened on the fast lane of the motorway I am very angry they have not acknowledged the safety angle of the fault.
Now I just want to try and get this fixed with the least financil penalty ( feel very strongly that that should be a free service)
There are many threads but a lots of forums are quite old has anybody in 2009 been able to get Volvo to contribute? and if not what is the likely cost ? I have read circa £350 + VAT -is this average?

[mikealder]

Get a price for fixing the ETM from the dealer garage, but if you can use a 10MM spanner and a screwdriver the ETM is easy to remove from the engine then send it away for rectification, mine cost £340 a few weeks ago and has been great since (look at the post above above yours for some clues).

I appreciate removing the faulty part yourself puts the car off the road while the ETM is away, but its only a week. In the USA they have the option for the non contact potentiameter modification which is a far better solution, but the device will be away for longer due to the logistics involved and will cost significantly more due to shipping charges and a rather poor exchange rate Pound relative to Dollar.

I did consider the non contact pot replacement but this is a costly option when you factor in shipping charges, you get a two year Warranty with the BBA unit and no messing about - I was impressed by the service they offered, keeping me informed throughout the entire time the component was away:

Posted Tuesday (UPS picked it up)

Phone call Wednesday to say it had arived

Phone call Thursday to ask for information about how the car was behaving

Phone call Friday to say the unit was on test and they couldn't find a fault with it, I informed them to change the Pot as I was convinced this was the fault - The engineer I spoke to stated this might not cure the rough idle / running fault but would repair the ETMif I insisted (which I did)

Phone call late Friday to say it was repaired and they wanted payment (credit/ debit card over the phone)

Monday UPS delivered the part, I fitted it in under 10 minutes, left the ignition on for 15 minutes then fired up the engine, I have done over a thousand miles since with not a problem, in fact the car drives in a far more responsive mannor than it ever did - Mike

[SC15]

Our 2002 C70 ETM failed at 33k miles, (6 years of London stop/start driving!). I was aware that it would fail eventually having followed the threads on here.

The design of the potentiometers is such that they will wear out, sooner or later.

I nearly went for the contactless option, but 'er indoors wasn't impressed at how long it would take so in the end Solo in Ruislip did the job for £360 (and lent us a car for the day) including firmware update.

So I guess we are good for another six years!

[monjem]

Hi All, New to Forum and would like some advice please. Had the above Volvo from new not been that impressed though, car has now only covered 67K but has had new turbo at 48K, new alt at 57K, on average one bulb pops every 6 weeks plus a few other little issues, but the main one currently is it's lower on power, idle is hunting, have to floor it before it decides to make any form of rapid forward motion. I have had ETM cleaned by independent (got ripped off once too oftem by main dealer so don't trust) and the hunting stopped but still low on power (compared to what it used to be like, i.e smooth and rapid for not much throttle). Most times when I go to use cruise it lasts about 2 seconds then "Cruise" disappears from display only coming back on after engine stop-start, at least once a day the Engine Management Service warning comes on. Would it be fair to assume that the throttle body is at fault and a new one would restore power and smooth running, if so approx what should I pay for this work. Currently between jobs as it were so need as much advice as I can before taking the plunge. Many Thanks in advance, monjem

[frenchie]

Hi Folks,

I'm new to Volvo ownership and the forum so I kicked off with a '01 2.4T S60 that just ticked over 78k miles with fsh. Great car but a electronic nightmare. Within 3k miles of use the "Emissions service required" message popped up and the idle went crazy. I'm an engineer so can usually work my way round stuff....... or so I thought.....
1,Carefully cleaned the MAF, still ropey idle, checked for air leaks.....none
2,Cleaned all the crank case breathing system although not blocked
3,Changed plugs for genuine Volvo - no better,
4, JOINED FORUM AND BEGAN TO READ!!!!!!!
5,Removed the ETM and cleaned this (never ever again)
No cure but ran ok with mildly erratic idle for 2-3 weeks
Finally "Reduced Power" message on annoying display and car cutting out, throttle response has dulled off and wont hold constant revs plus splutters at 4250 until past = ETM to me, confirmed by ECM-03F code?
Read this mammoth thread and will be going straight to Volvo and gladly giving them £250 notes for a new one as it's at least 3.5 hours work. On a car that is nearly 9 years old then I think this is reasonable. For those with a sub 5 year old car then their attitude is outrageous!
THANKS FOLKS!

[MJVolvofan]

Hi, realise I'm a bit behind the times, but I bought my 2000 V70 T5 in 2005 with 92,000 miles on, most money I'd ever spent on a car, @ £8250 at the time, privately bought through Autotrader. Car went well, very pleased initially, converted it to Lpg just before the fuel prices went crazy, saw Lpg rise from 38p/l to 65 p/l, still pleased with my savings, then at around 130k the magnetti marelli ETM started playing up, tried to self diagnose to begin with, eventually after ruling out the Lpg as a cause, realised what the problem was and began to speak to Volvo, they did not want to know! and one dealer wouldn't even discuss!
Granted the car was now 9yr old with decent mileage(apparently my ETM was seriously on borrowed time as it was), I'd missed all the publicity and the BBC watchdog programme which temporarily shamed Volvo into some form of goodwill, for a part that was faulty in design, what really got me was the way we in the UK were treated in comparison to how it was dealt with in Sweden and the U.S.A, Volvo UK had been shamed into some form of contribution but their 'goodwill campaign' for want of a better way of putting it was now over. In the U.S & Sweden they gave a 200,000 mile or ten year warranty, on this part on the basis of 'strict emission laws' what crap.
The bottom line, the U.S are better protected legally, Volvo didn't want a fight they knew they would loose, when it comes to Sweden, well as I've said elsewhere there are some things you just don't do on your own doorstep. As for the UK consumer, we were on our own again, the only slightly Good news was that the repair when I did finally get it done cost around £280, the part itself being about £130 reduced I believe due to the problems, still aggrieved though as it was money I didn't have, and should not have had to spend. The dealer LLoyds of Aberaeron were brilliant, it wasn't their fault, the blame lies strictly at Volvo's door, refusing to accept Liability again.
Manufacturers like to make their vehicles difficult if impossible for ordinary mechanics to work on, programming parts so that they can only ever be used once, how wasteful, if I could have obtained a part from a breakers and fitted myself this could have been far less painfull on the wallet, but all Manufacturers are becoming more and more guilty of this.

[MJVolvofan]

sorry to cross post but this "emissions" smoke screen won't work with me it's a safety issue no ifs or buts and the "cleaning" is just waffle. How can it be dirty on the inlet manifold side of the AIR FILTER?
Rubbish just rubbish, I'd contact my MP but she's to busy filling in expense claims

I for one agree totally, mine was playing up in the middle of overtakes, and whilst crossing right, across dual Carriageways, I didn't let my wife or kids in the car until it was sorted, after one or two close calls.

Toyota's troubles have been all about this very same issue, it cost them a fortune, but much as I hate to say it, the Japanese dealt with their problem Honourably, by recalling all vehicles to put them right, admitedly they acted a little belated, after much badgering from the public.

[Caiystane]

Hi All
Same as all above, went to Volvo Dealer 1 year ago and they "reprogrammed it" - didn't change it (white sticker). Now just been at same dealer and they are now saying replace ETM (£361). Ugh.
V70 2.5 20V XLT
Does anyone know where to source the ETMs?
And and gotchas when fitting them?

Cheers

John

[Nick44]

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=69001

[RG_Toad]

My V70 T5 (2002) had been kangarooing (particularly when the air con kicked in) and going into limp mode on the motorway - not a very safe place to do 10mph - so I had it in a Volvo specialists this morning.

They told me it was the ETM.

They said the ETM had the original software in it, so they downloaded the latest version, installed it and it's seemed to do the trick. Then again, for £130,:err: I would hope so.

I have noticed, in the 30 miles I've done since this morning, that there's a slight "wooliness" :animal-smiley-085: about the performance, and after reading this and other threads re the ETM, it sounds like it'll be a temporary fix.

I dont fancy taking the kids in the car down the motorway if it's going to pack in again :nah: - anyone got any thoughts?

And is Volvo UK helping customers with this issue these days or are they still saying it's a performace issue, not a safety one?

[mikealder]

Did the car put the ETS and check engine lights on or not? and did Volvo read and reset any fault codes stored in the ECU?

If indeed the ETM is shot few options spring to mind:

1/ xemodex which is an ETM fitted with non contacts pots so no wear although a great solution not that cheap when you include shipping charges for your defective ETM to North America, see Here (http://www.xemodex.com/xemodex_013.htm) for detail.

2/ Volvo Main dealer for a new ETM to the same design of your old unit (so will eventually wear out again) get a price though as it could prove costly.

3/ bba Remanufacturing where you send your old ETM to bba (Rochester UK) who repair your old unit and return it with a new pot fitted, this cost me around £330 eighteen months ago and comes with a two year warranty - No problems since fitting it to the car, see Here (http://www.bba-reman.com/volvo_throttle_actuator.htm) for information.

[RG_Toad]

Yes, I had the engine light on and a few warnings such as "Engine system service urgent", "Performance reduced", etc.
The garage I took it to was a Volvo specialist rather than a dealership, but they seem to know their stuff and they were pretty good in talking me through what they were doing, showing me the diagnostic screens, etc. They reset all fault codes, including the SRS airbag one which came on after I messed around with the fuses without disconnecting the battery.

Thanks for the info re replacement options Mike - will check out those options.

[RG_Toad]

Great - one week later and its "Engine System Service Required" again. :censored:

[RG_Toad]

If it's of any help to anyone, I just called a local Volvo dealership for a price on a new ETM and they've quoted me £136 + vat for the part.
They also charge just £1 for the software and reckon on just over an hours labour to fit it and install the software. Total bill should be in the region of £300.

Rang Volvo UK customer service this morning to complain. Was told that the age of the car (8yrs) and the mileage (92k) meant it was outside of the warranty.

[colinandrews]

well took the etm apart this morning and replaced both ends
put it back together (took 2 hours in total)
started the car and reset the codes
and now its running sweet as a nut :)
sod paying to get it done by volvo
now im going to overhaul the old ends with a bottle of this stuff

http://i13.ebayimg.com/01/i/06/30/28/cc_1.JPG

just wish i could get my hands on a pair of those magnetic ends so that i can have a permanent fix




Just curious...

How you getting with this since its been done...any other problems?...


Don't suppose you've you took any photos when doing this?....


Hope its still working.

[FatLadZ]

Just curious...

How you getting with this since its been done...any other problems?...


Don't suppose you've you took any photos when doing this?....


Hope its still working.

conscience got the bettr of me and i opted to pay volvo.
but while doing it they messed my car up by breaking a wire in the loom and it shorted out and blew a track in the ECU
I took it to Volvo for diagnostics and was without my car for 2 weeks.
They rang me after 2 weeks and said they cant find the fault and only charged me 1 hours labour £99.80 inc vat.
I took the car upto work and it took me 20 mins with a basic meter to find the wire they repaired and trace it back to the ECU.
Emailed Volvo Uk and they called me and i put them straight on what had happened and they compensated me the £100 back in vouchers but i said stuff that im not happy at being without my car for 2 weeks and not offered a coutesy car.
I explained that i am a company director and had to hire a car.
I said £200 would be more realistic.
Eventually they agreed to £200
I was looking to buy a new C70 D5 now this customer services has made me look towars other marques.

[colinandrews]

conscience got the bettr of me and i opted to pay volvo.
but while doing it they messed my car up by breaking a wire in the loom and it shorted out and blew a track in the ECU
I took it to Volvo for diagnostics and was without my car for 2 weeks.
They rang me after 2 weeks and said they cant find the fault and only charged me 1 hours labour £99.80 inc vat.
I took the car upto work and it took me 20 mins with a basic meter to find the wire they repaired and trace it back to the ECU.
Emailed Volvo Uk and they called me and i put them straight on what had happened and they compensated me the £100 back in vouchers but i said stuff that im not happy at being without my car for 2 weeks and not offered a coutesy car.
I explained that i am a company director and had to hire a car.
I said £200 would be more realistic.
Eventually they agreed to £200
I was looking to buy a new C70 D5 now this customer services has made me look towars other marques.


Bit confused.... Did you manage to do the carbon paint on the ends, as previous post said you managed at least 450miles or am I mistaking it for something else..

Is this worth doing as I have been quoted £500 for replacement ETS now.


Cheers
Col

[mikealder]

Col, try a quote from bba as they will be cheaper than the costs you have do far, go to the previous page in this thread and in one of my posts you will find a link to their site.

I very much doubt painting a resistive material on to the mylar film in the potentiometer will work, if the resistance isn't as expected by the ECU it will return to limp mode at best, at worst it wont run at all - Mike

[colinandrews]

Col, try a quote from bba as they will be cheaper than the costs you have do far, go to the previous page in this thread and in one of my posts you will find a link to their site.

I very much doubt painting a resistive material on to the mylar film in the potentiometer will work, if the resistance isn't as expected by the ECU it will return to limp mode at best, at worst it wont run at all - Mike

Hi Mike.


Tried BBA yesterday morning...the guy I spoke didn't really sound like he knew what I was talking about and it worried me a bit, He was talking about repairing the throttle body only and I told him it was ETS part and he didn't have a clue.

He asked for the part number so I will get that today and maybe call them back.

Thanks for the info though much appreciated.

Col

[mikealder]

bba did a good job on my faulty ETM, the Electronic Throttle Motor (ETM) is the unit that contains the pots that wear out due to poor design, if you asked for an ETS repair then I can see why there is some confusion. The ETM is just one part of the ETS system as a whole.
They repair the ETM by changing the faulty pots, send you the unit back so there is no software loading involved, the non turbo models are a doddle to remove/ replace, turbo engines are a little more difficult to access the ETM but it's certainly a simple DIY task to do - Mike

[FatLadZ]

bba did a good job on my faulty ETM, the Electronic Throttle Motor (ETM) is the unit that contains the pots that wear out due to poor design, if you asked for an ETS repair then I can see why there is some confusion. The ETM is just one part of the ETS system as a whole.
They repair the ETM by changing the faulty pots, send you the unit back so there is no software loading involved, the non turbo models are a doddle to remove/ replace, turbo engines are a little more difficult to access the ETM but it's certainly a simple DIY task to do - Mike

ETM = Electronic Throttle Module

Yes i did have success with some carbon painted ones but was afraid it may just be too unsafe and id imaginemy insurance company wouldnt be best pleased.
In the end it was best to opt for getting the job done correctly (Even though the cowboys at volvo messed my car up).
Id advise against painting the resistor films.

[colinandrews]

bba did a good job on my faulty ETM, the Electronic Throttle Motor (ETM) is the unit that contains the pots that wear out due to poor design, if you asked for an ETS repair then I can see why there is some confusion. The ETM is just one part of the ETS system as a whole.
They repair the ETM by changing the faulty pots, send you the unit back so there is no software loading involved, the non turbo models are a doddle to remove/ replace, turbo engines are a little more difficult to access the ETM but it's certainly a simple DIY task to do - Mike




Phoned them today... spoke to someone different... all seems good

Bench test first to make sure the throttle body is faulty
If found faulty then they will recondition and post back

Gonna remove it and send it of next week so will let you know how much and the outcome..


Thanks for all your help..



FatLadZ: Wise decision I guess, how long did it last out of curiosity before you had it replaced?.

[mikealder]

Have a look at This (http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=113968) Thread before you take the unit out of the car as it contains some handy pictures and tips on what to do.

As for the "bench test" keep in mind its done at room temperature which is considerably cooler than when the ETM is bolted to the engine, my faulty ETM was passing the bench test but was undriveable once the car got up to temperature, when bba phoned me to say there was nothing wrong with the ETM on the bench I instructed them to change the pots anyway as I was confident as to what was wrong - Mike

[colinandrews]

Have a look at This (http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=113968) Thread before you take the unit out of the car as it contains some handy pictures and tips on what to do.

As for the "bench test" keep in mind its done at room temperature which is considerably cooler than when the ETM is bolted to the engine, my faulty ETM was passing the bench test but was undriveable once the car got up to temperature, when bba phoned me to say there was nothing wrong with the ETM on the bench I instructed them to change the pots anyway as I was confident as to what was wrong - Mike

Thanks for the info... will ask them to change them any way as the bench test fee will be included in the final price if found faulty.

Cheers

Col

[Mucky pups]

Looking for some advice. I have a W Reg (2000) V70 2.4 Classic Auto which has been driving perfectly well until this afternoon. A couple of miles into my journey home from work the ETS light came on and my car was very rough when idling at junctions. It felt like it would stall but didn't and was OK once I got moving, had no problem doing 45mph in it. Got home and parked on the drive, stopped the engine and when I restarted it the light was off.

Having looked on the forum it is obvious that this is a common fault and I have looked through the receipts which came with my car and can see that in 2004 at 78000 miles the throttle valve was cleaned to rectify cutting out at a cost of £34.

The car now has 143k on the clock and is over 10 years old so I guess it falls outside of the extended warranty but has anyone suceeded in getting to Volvo to do a discounted repair?

Failing that can anyone recommend a good independant volvo garage in the Warrington area so I can compare their price against the main dealer. (I wouldn't be able to repair myself no matter how easy it is!)

Thanks

[deathrider311271]

why are people still paying for new ETMs when you can get a perfectly good second hand one and fit that for a fraction of the cost then if required get the relevent software, its beyond me why people are prepared to pay dealer prices when there is an alternative.

i have done a write up on the alternative and people have done as i have advised to good effect.

even when u do go to the dealer your NOT getting a new unit it is reconditioned.

rant over

[mikealder]

Is the car a Turbo model or just normally aspirated?

If its non turbo the ETM is probably easier to remove than changing the battery! You only need a screwdriver and a 10MM spanner.

Before commiting to changing/ fixing the ETM get the fault codes read on the car as it should have something stored against the ETM if the lights been on.

Once the ETM is off the car send it to bba for a few days then put it back on the car when you get it back fixed - Mike

[Mucky pups]

why are people still paying for new ETMs when you can get a perfectly good second hand one and fit that for a fraction of the cost then if required get the relevent software, its beyond me why people are prepared to pay dealer prices when there is an alternative.

i have done a write up on the alternative and people have done as i have advised to good effect.

even when u do go to the dealer your NOT getting a new unit it is reconditioned.

rant over

Because as I said, I wouldn't be able to fit one myself so I'd have to pay a mechanic to do it - hence why I've asked if any one knows of independants in the area!

[deathrider311271]

Because as I said, I wouldn't be able to fit one myself so I'd have to pay a mechanic to do it - hence why I've asked if any one knows of independants in the area!

wasnt having a go at anyone in particular mate was just a general rant lol

[Mucky pups]

wasnt having a go at anyone in particular mate was just a general rant lol

No problem - Only wish I was able to do it myself!!

[deathrider311271]

No problem - Only wish I was able to do it myself!!

have a read of this before buying new: http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=98886

i did mine this way, any competent mechanic will be able to replace the ETM its weather you need to have software upgraded to run correctly or not.

Used turbo ETM less than £100, non turbo ETM less than £80 + fitting off course

simon

[Mucky pups]

It's a non turbo.

I will get it into a local garage that I trust as soon as I can for the codes read and then take it from there.

Thanks

[philgmitch]

My XC70 had it's ETM cleaned and a Software upgrade performed by a dealer in Orpington, Kent sometime in 2008 - foc but only after me writing to Volvo Cars UK after hearing about the high profile issue on Watchdog and on this forum I recall. The dealer were extremely cagey and were'nt happy at doing this for free - even being recompensed by Volvo UK.

Before the car was 10 years old and still with only 46000 miles (I drive approx. 3500 miles pa at present), the issues returned, though intermittent and mild, but with no warning light and no fault codes. On 3 occasions I returned to the dealer, without being able to recreate the symptoms. I reported it to Volvo UK and obtained a Reference dating my contact to prior to 10 years. More recently I've had a Volvo mechanic independently experience the problem, he helped me to rule out some other possibilities like Fuel Pressure, Pump etc. His verdict is to replace the ETM. Sadly its out of warranty now even though mileage is still only 56000 and even though this latest episode began inside the 10 years. The Dealer would not admit to there being a 10 year warranty on this and neither did they admit that it's a major issue for owners.

The problem has now worsened and gives symptoms on most journey's, sometimes quite severe, lurching heavily and picking up again.

In June I wrote to Volvo UK with this story and they sent £150 in Vouchers for use in service or parts. Not too generous for a job that'll cost £600+ via a dealer. The Independent Volvo mechanic previously offered to fit a new ETM (£410) and apply the necessary software fix (can only be done by a Volvo dealer - apparently - unless anyone knows differently). He's lost interest since I mentioned the vouchers - I wonder why! Since when do mechanics justify £410 for less than 2 hours work!

I have no faith in the Volvo Dealer network as a result of this and am now looking for another solution. Any suggestions gratefully received.

Phil

[RUTV70]

You could consider a refurb, Phil...try BBA Re-manufacturing (in Kent.!)...at least it won't need any "re-programming" as it's the original to the car..but it will still cost ya around £300..!!..and you'll be without the car for a few days at least.
The ETM is easy to remove if it's a non-turbo...if it's a turbo then it's more difficult due to it's location..

Neil

[Andypa]

Just to let you know, the software update isn't exclusive to Volvo. I recently had a new ETM fitted at an independant diagnostic specialist (unofficially recommended by a Volvo dealer)!!

The cost is nearly all for the part which is Volvo only, you'll do very well to find any dealer offering for one for less than £295 +vat. On a non-turbo it's just 4 bolts to fit it, just the wiring can be a bit tricky to get to in order to detach as it goes around the back of the manifold. £410 is a fair price, though I found a few Volvo dealers quoting around this price, so £600 sounds like an expensive dealer. I would personally be very wary of BBA, they recently had my original ETM for 3 weeks waiting for parts and I wasn't the only one. Also their fix turned out not to work, basically they replace an electrical sensor which is acknowledged as the usual culprit, but mine and again I wasn't alone, turned out to be a mechanical fault (the butterfly valve was sticking open). My advice would be to go to a diagnositc specialist and confirm the nature of the fault before you start replacing anything.

Another option would be to find one from the wreckers and yes this would need re-programming to match your car, but again this can be done independantly, I think I was quoted around £70 for this, though obvioulsy you would be taking a risk on how long this would last. If it has a yellow sticker on it then it's likely to be a replacement one rather then the original. Though some replacements also have a white sticker like the original.

[ade555]

can some one please let me know if you get your ETM replaced original brand new part from volvo will that last for few years " so basicly are the yellow sticker are bullet proof" or could I get still the same problem 2 years down the line, mine didn't fail yet not sure if is original or not, just wanted to know

[RUTV70]

can some one please let me know if you get your ETM replaced original brand new part from volvo will that last for few years " so basicly are the yellow sticker are bullet proof" or could I get still the same problem 2 years down the line, mine didn't fail yet not sure if is original or not, just wanted to know

I'm not sure you'd say they were "brand new" in the accepted sense..ie..it's my understanding (I may be wrong) that they are simply refurbed units.
Subsequently they are STILL badly designed parts and will fail eventually just as the original one's did.
I wouldn't accuse them of being "bullet proof".! (irrelevant of the sticker colour!)..but they should last a while I guess.?
I think the accepted BEST route is XeModex...they rebuild with solid state parts (I believe) that will NOT fail...BUT...they ain't cheap...in excess of £500.
The ETM comes from Canada (already "programmed" to your car because you supply them your VIN when you order it)..and when you get it you replace your old one with it and then send the old one back to them.. then they rebuild that unit ready for sale to someone down the line...That's how I believe it works at least.?

Neil

[ade555]

thanks for the info

[deathrider311271]

I'm not sure you'd say they were "brand new" in the accepted sense..ie..it's my understanding (I may be wrong) that they are simply refurbed units.
Subsequently they are STILL badly designed parts and will fail eventually just as the original one's did.
I wouldn't accuse them of being "bullet proof".! (irrelevant of the sticker colour!)..but they should last a while I guess.?
I think the accepted BEST route is XeModex...they rebuild with solid state parts (I believe) that will NOT fail...BUT...they ain't cheap...in excess of £500.
The ETM comes from Canada (already "programmed" to your car because you supply them your VIN when you order it)..and when you get it you replace your old one with it and then send the old one back to them.. then they rebuild that unit ready for sale to someone down the line...That's how I believe it works at least.?

Neil

100% correct mate, altho depending on year of car there is the option to buy a good second hand unit.

I have gone this route with mine, had it on nearly 18 months now and still runs fine, some of them u do need a software upgrade about £40 i believe