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tfb
Oct 28th, 2007, 20:50
Managed to change the timing belt yesterday. Fellow forum member JOR came up to lend a hand and I was certainly glad of the assistance

On the whole it didn't go too badly, it took us about 6hrs including a lunch break and a fair amount of head-scratching and cursing.

We each had copies of the Volvo D24 service manual and we partially followed this and partly worked on common sense. We found more evidence of previous bodge jobs on the alternator adjustment arm, which explained why the belt is so loose and I get some screeching on acceleration when cold.

Everything was going quite well until it came time to get the big bolt out of the center of the crank-shaft. I tried an electric impact driver on but it didn't budge, then tried putting it gear and standing on the brakes but all that happened was the car began moving!. After a bit more cursing and head-scratching, JOR came up with the idea of a length of chain around the pulley and a long bar through the chain and applying tension. But we couldn't get enough grip around pulley, although I suspect a length of motorbike drive chain may work better as it would provide a bit more surface area contact.

At this point we broke for lunch and a think. Over the ham and cheese rolls we came up with the idea of using some Uni-strut with a couple of bolts through it. (see picture attached)

Now suitably refueled it was out with the hacksaw and cutting up bits of Uni-strut. The idea was based on two long pieces, each with one M12 bolt though it to engage on the lugs in the pulley, a short cross piece to tie them together and then a long diagonal piece to stop the hole thing twisting out shape under tension. On our first attempt the M12 bolts were right at the bottom end and the load was too much and the Uni-strut just bent. JOR suggested moving them up above the cross brace and widening the gap between the two long verticals to allow the extension bar through.

So, take two. JOR was holding the improvised tool and I had the 2ft long breaker bar on the nut. As we started to pull as hard as we could in opposite directions I could feel it start move! Our hearts felt light and even the sun seemed to shine a little brighter! ;). Suddenly I stopped...it just didn't feel right, so we took the locking tool off and looked at the extension bar which now was resembling a cork-screw!, a quick hunt through the tool boxes turned up a another 6” long ½” drive extension bar and we were back on!.

Finally after a hell of a lot of cursing the nut came off. It really was touch and go as to whether our home made locking tool would hold up, the bolts did look a bit bent by the time we had finished.
Once we had got the pulley off the rest was plain sailing. The new belt went on fine and putting the crankshaft pulley bolt back we just tightened it up until the Uni-strut started to buckle, which should be tight enough.

By the time we had finished putting everything back we were beginning to lose the light and it was about 5 o'clock by the time we were ready to start her up. I leaned through the window, put the key in the ignition, crossed my fingers and turned the key and........nothing! Rats! Connected the battery and tried again. Glow plug light lit and went out, key turned to start and she fired up on the 1st compression stroke!!!!!, together with the usual cloud of smoke and rattles and bangs ;)

All in all, it turned out to be a very successful day. JOR's help was invaluable and I simply would not have been able to do it solo. If anyone else is considering changing thier timing belt I would strongly recommend that you get the proper tool for holding the pulley stationary and use a 2ft breaker bar with a length of scaffolding bar on top of it!.

jor
Oct 29th, 2007, 16:17
Thanks for the enjoyable account tfb.....and for the hospitality etc.
As it appears that getting hold of tool 5284 is not an easy task I posted to the d24 list about your modified tool and received a reply from Tom Bryant, who is an engine builder and has rebuit some 100 d24's. Although he exaggerates the torque somewhat it may nevertheless be an idea just to recheck that bolt when you get a chance.

"I'm not sure just how your friend held his crankshaft from turning, but
be advised that that bolt requires somewhere in the neighbor hood of 500
ft-lbs of torque. I sure hope he was holding it well enough and got
sufficient torque on the bolt, because if he didn't he'll surely regret it".

The snap is of the bottom of the alternator and if the bracket in the middle underneath the pliers is the missing piece let me know. I can't remember if your one had this slightly angled bracket. The larger bracket below is not attached to the alternator at all, at least not on this particular engine, it serves as attachment point for the steering pump.
Having said that the alternator belt on the car is really quite slack, noticeably less than on the power steering and can be deflected a good 1 1/2 cm without any pressure.

john

tfb
Oct 29th, 2007, 19:46
I did some experiments this evening by pushing on a set of bathroom scales held against the wall and I could easily apply 200lb of force. The breaker bar we had was 24" long and our locking tool was about 36" long. I would guess that we applied at least 400lb/ft of force. However, I think I will double check it - better safe than sorry.

I did my usual 180 mile commute today wtihout any problems, the water needed topping with half a pint by the time I got home, so hopefuly the last of the air bubbles are out now.

At work we do subcontract some metal works to a small engineering firm. I think I'll take some measurements of the pulley and get them to make up a plate to fit and have a chat with my local tractor mechanics about borrowing a big torque wrench (mine only goes up to 200lb/ft).

Yep, the nut with the long bolt through it is missing on my alternator mounting bracked, the alternator is just bolted straight on the bracket arm, not sure if I have a bent or straight arm and it's too dark and cold to look now!

Once again, thanks for your help


Regards

TFB

Paul Clifton
Oct 29th, 2007, 19:58
According to my data the bottom pulley bolt should be done up to 350nm which is about 260lbft.

Paul.

jor
Oct 29th, 2007, 20:46
If you want this screw/bracket you are quite welcome. BTW spot the silly mistake the correct tool number is 5187 not 5284, used on B200 engines.

john

tfb
Oct 29th, 2007, 22:14
I was getting my Nm and lb/ft mixed up. It is definately tightened to in excess of 260 lb/ft by my reconing.

Regards
TFB

tfb
Oct 29th, 2007, 22:15
I'll PM you jor and we'll sort something out. Thansk

TFB

monkeh
Oct 31st, 2007, 12:46
Hmm, Im glad I paid someone to change the timing belt on mine, £100 for the fuel and Timing belt all in, He was there for 3 hours.
I did however wonder what the scaffold pole was for, Now I know!

tfb
Oct 31st, 2007, 18:09
I would say that £100 was a good price to pay. I think that if I had to do it again I could probably do it in about 3hrs. We did waste a fair bit of time stuffing down rolls and tea and scratching our heads over locking the crankshaft and making up the tool.

regards

TFB

Laney760
Aug 26th, 2008, 22:20
Perhaps better to continue this old thread rather than start a new one? I've got a VW mechanic who I trust who is carrying out basic stuff for me but he no longer does cam belt changes and I have just had my new belt delivered today and am worried about who to get to fit it. I have two local 'cheap' garages in the Henley area ('cheap' in Henley is expensive) but they have both let me down badly before. Having read this blog on changing the cam belt would it be better if I put my D24TIC into Volvos, 'swallowed' on their hourly rate (probably unimaginable) rather than give this job to amateurs? (VW Commericals Reading say they are not insured to work on it due to non-vw ancilliary parts they are not insured to work on, lol). The previous owner said it had been changed in Feb, the diesel pump belt looks new if that's anything to go by and much of the car has clearly been highly maintaned but other parts not but he gave me no receipt for the work done and not sure if I believe him. Once had a cambelt go on a Peugeot diesel, complete engine rebuild, don't want to go there ever again.

tfb
Aug 27th, 2008, 03:50
After my experiance I would ensure that whoever you get to change it does have the correct tool to hold the crank still while the centre bolt is loosened/tightened.
I was willing to risk doing it myself with a homemade widget as I'll give most things a go!

You may want to try ringing around various independant VW specialists as the engine is a VW unit, I am suprised that the VW comercial place wasn't interested though.

My experiance of Volvo main dealers and the D24 engines is that they dont have a clue about them, though I might have just been unlucky.

If you are planning on getting a rebuilt engine, then don't bother chanigng it....just keep your fingers crossed!, if you intend on keeping that engine then I would get it done.

Regards

TFB

Laney760
Aug 27th, 2008, 12:09
After my experiance I would ensure that whoever you get to change it does have the correct tool to hold the crank still while the centre bolt is loosened/tightened.
I was willing to risk doing it myself with a homemade widget as I'll give most things a go!

You may want to try ringing around various independant VW specialists as the engine is a VW unit, I am suprised that the VW comercial place wasn't interested though.

My experiance of Volvo main dealers and the D24 engines is that they dont have a clue about them, though I might have just been unlucky.

If you are planning on getting a rebuilt engine, then don't bother chanigng it....just keep your fingers crossed!, if you intend on keeping that engine then I would get it done.

Regards

TFB





Saving up for a rebuild will take me till next year and even if buying a secondhand one it's still a lot more money on top for someone to fit it so I'd like to do the cam belt so at least I know I can safely drive the car on this engine until I'm financially ready to change/rebuild. I've also read lots of bad stuff about Volvos servicing these engines. I'm going to get back onto the servicing manager at the VW Commericals and complain and will also ask Volvos if I can have a proper guaranteed quote for it, at least main dealers guarantee their work and good idea, will try to find another VWs. By the way, my thread read badly, I wasn't referring to you an an amateur, I meant some of these local garages who can't even put the right oil in, the right amount, simple basic stuff they get wrong

Have just rung local main Volvo agents - they say between £350 - £400! Gulp! I expected about £250. I will try and find other VW diesel garages.......

tfb
Aug 27th, 2008, 17:14
£350-400 ouch!. I would guess that if you knew what you were doing, had the correct tools and a nice workshop that it would be about a 3-man hours job...2 hours for one person and with assistant for about an hour of that time.

oh, don't worry I'll quite freely admit to being an amatuer!, and a bodger come to think of it!


Regards
TFB

Laney760
Aug 27th, 2008, 18:05
Waylaid an RAC man in a carpark, showed my membership card and asked him who he would recommend for this job on this engine. He gave me the card of the garage in Reading Berks that do all their diesel fleet work (I assume theirs are all modern common rail engines). I had a result, they know these engines. I am fitted in with them for cam belt change on the 16th, cost

£145.50 plus vat.

Delighted. By the 16th she'll have had oil, flush, filter change, back axle and gearbox levels checked, propshaft joints checked, plus most importantly a cd player fitted next Tuesday lol, plus I have done all the minor stuff I can do myself, wiper blades, air filter, pedal rubbers, roof rack, etc.. getting somewhere with this car now. I may ask them if they can time my pump up and fit new fuel filter, was going to give that to the diesel specialists but they thrashed my car after I asked them not to and then argued with me that the D24TIC doesnt have oil flow/pressure probs........

jor
Aug 27th, 2008, 23:24
Any VW diesel mechanic or competent diesel mechanic should be able to do this for you. I'm sure the commercial lot could do so and cannot understand why they 'couldn't be bovvered" There is no problem with going the Volvo route - so long as you can afford it.
I can recommend a good mechanic, the only problem being that Wembley is not exactly local to you.
If non availability of tools is a problem for your local mechanic you are quite welcome to a loan of the locking tool and pump timing gauge.

jor

Laney760
Aug 30th, 2008, 00:39
Any VW diesel mechanic or competent diesel mechanic should be able to do this for you. I'm sure the commercial lot could do so and cannot understand why they 'couldn't be bovvered" There is no problem with going the Volvo route - so long as you can afford it.
I can recommend a good mechanic, the only problem being that Wembley is not exactly local to you.
If non availability of tools is a problem for your local mechanic you are quite welcome to a loan of the locking tool and pump timing gauge.

jor#


Hi Jor

Thank you for the offer of loan of tools. If I have a bad experience with the RAC recommended garage I would certainly travel to Wembley, I've got no idea why I am having such a high incidence of problems with garages in the Henley/South East area here, I never had this problem in London when I used to live there. Travelling to Wembley would at least give this vehicle a bit of a run (making sure I get the D24TIC up and running for quite a while whenever I can and avoiding short run syndrome) and with the mpg I return in it it's worth the journey. I even had a bad experience with localish Mercedes main dealers after paying them a huge sum to service my Merc camper, I only just found what they'd done in time before it killed my vehicle. Yes, I would have been able to sue but whether I'd have gotten the true financial value of the vehicle back as it stood to me is another matter. Will post on here how my cam belt change has gone. But then how will I know if the tensioners have not been done correctly? Off now to read that up on the net, lol... Many thanks