Crazy to have a 92 940 D24tic engine rebuild?

[Laney760]

I've had my 940 td for about six weeks and am now glad that my juicy petrol 740 was stolen now. When I first got the 940 I was tearing around in it for a few days before I learned that these engines take a very long time to warm up before you can do any hard work in them and have since found out that my compression is a bit low hence some smoking when starting up and changing gears at high revs so since then I've been quite gentle with it most of the time. I like the car so much :swoon: that I am thinking of saving up and having a complete engine rebuild next year - it would cost £1200 and come guaranteed and would look forward to be able to drive it properly once it had run in. I think my Dad thinks I'm a bit mad but I wouldn't get much of a newer Volvo diesel estate for £1200 and by next year the car would have had quite a lot of money put into it and better the devil you know? The car is rock solid, zero rust anywhere, immaculate, and I love everything about it, particularly the steering, brakes and suspension and it's huge capacity for carrying stuff around. Anyone think I'd be mad to do this? Anyone know of the best people to rebuild one of these engines, I wouldn't want to spend much more than the £1200 I've been quoted. I have looked around for other engines, have found one for less than £300 that is guaranteed a non-smoker and comes with a short warranty but would then need to find someone expert enough to fit it, I wouldn't entrust this to my local garage. Would welcome some opinions on this. My Dad says if I don't thrash it in low gears and at high speeds it will probably go on for years but I do like a bit of 'proper driving', lol..

[tfb]

Fitting a complete engine is not that hard. The main problems are usualy caused by having to move around such a heavy lump of iron and the D24 is quite a heavy block. In the days of my youth at banger racing we could change a MKIII Cortina engine in about 45 mins...admitadly we only bothered with 2 or 3 bolts to hold the engine to the gearbox and turning the car on it's side helped access!

If I were you I would get the cheap engine and keep it as a spare as £1200 is a fair bit of money and I bet the rebuild would end up costing more as you would find other things that needed doing.

Regards

TFB

[Laney760]

I'd have a prob storing the second hand one anywhere. The £1200 quoted for the guaranteed rebuild stated that it included all new oils, belts, gaskets, etc.. plus vat plus collection and delivery (not keen on having someone else drive my new engine hundred+ miles back to me, would collect it myself). Did you mean this sort of stuff or that when they were putting it all back together they may say that I need such and such an ancilliary that's attached to the engine? Perhaps I need to have further communication with them. Thanks

[tfb]

Not only ancillary items like alternator, water pump etc may require replacing or not be included in the cost, but you often end up with siezed nuts and sheared bolts, stripped threads which suprisingly can end up adding a lot of time and money to a job.
This is not just specific to Volvo's but can happen with any car. Pretty much any job will always take longer and cost more than you orignaly planned due to the unforseen "little" problems!

Regards
TFB

[craig8661]

i sold two good d24s one intercooled on not one low milage one high i kno he is rebuilding his high milage one and also i kno what you meen theese engines are hard to get i have seen a couple on ebay for £400 but you would def want to see them runing on there

[SeanO'Connor]

Why spend £1200+ on an engine rebuild, when I picked up a near mint 2001 S80 2.5D for £1500? It seems pointless ploughing lots of money into a car, when you can get a newer car for similar money. Just my two peneths worth. Sean.

[Laney760]

Why spend £1200+ on an engine rebuild, when I picked up a near mint 2001 S80 2.5D for £1500? It seems pointless ploughing lots of money into a car, when you can get a newer car for similar money. Just my two peneths worth. Sean.

Thats a good buy, is it an estate? (sorry, not familiar with the shapes, designs of the newer models). If not how much more would it have cost in an estate? The way I'm looking at it is - I took the plunge upgrading from a 740 petrol estate to a 940 diesel estate, in that I am not well off and a 940 is considerably more money to maintain than a 740. I'm assuming the new diesel estates will cost me more in servicing, parts, etc.. My 940 has so many extras compared to the 740 and technology on these newer vehicles must be even more complicated? There's clearly been a lot of money spent on my vehicle before, the suspension is brilliant, lots of new parts on it including radiator, battery, some stainless exhaust, etc.. A 740td (with a full service history) sold on Ebay for £1500 maybe because everything on it, barring the D24tic engine, is cheap and simple to replace/maintain? I'm female, can't do a lot of jobs myself purely through lack of strength so have to get ripped off my garages. I just thought that as my 940 is perfect, zero rot absolutely anywhere, virtually pristine, it is sometimes easier with the devil you know and wondering whether it's value after engine rebuild when it dies would be similar to the 940 I quoted at £1500, they are getting to be a rarer vehicles. I'm also assuming that by the time the engine would be due for a rebuild I'd have already have ploughed some money into it other than servicing costs. However, if I'm assuming wrongly and these newer vehicles don't cost an arm and a leg for parts, servicing, etc.. then you're probably right.......

[SeanO'Connor]

No its a saloon shape, but they do an estate, Servicing costs will be similar to your older Volvo, there are lots of pattern parts available. Depends upon your own choice, just a thought if your willing to plough an extra £1200 into your car, you could use that as a part ex and put £1200 into getting a different car. Min e came out of the autotrader but if you look on Ebay and the like they are just as cheap.

[Laney760]

No its a saloon shape, but they do an estate, Servicing costs will be similar to your older Volvo, there are lots of pattern parts available. Depends upon your own choice, just a thought if your willing to plough an extra £1200 into your car, you could use that as a part ex and put £1200 into getting a different car. Min e came out of the autotrader but if you look on Ebay and the like they are just as cheap.


I've remembered one example of the difference in maintaining the older type engine and the more modern common rail this morning. I can get my injectors reconditoned for as low as a tenner each, apparently on a modern common rail engine I'd be talking hundreds. Well, thats what the diesel specialists told me, I expect I'll get a contradictory response to this, lol. I don't just go for pattern parts, I get all my parts normally from Ebay, new, very cheap, etc.. Couldn't afford to take on a motor on hp, would if I could...

[SeanO'Connor]

I didn't mean on HP, I never get one that way either, what I meant was use your engine rebuild money and your volvo in a part ex deal. As for my engine it is a DI engine , not common rail.

[jor]

Apologies if I've missed something, but are you sure a rebuild is needed? The engines are considered to be hgihly reliable, so unless your car has ultra high mileage, or had the wrong oil used (!), or has been neglected (which does not appear to be the case) then it is unlikely to have low compression. If it starts ok and does around 35 mpg there cannot be a lot wrong with it. Smoking on startup is a feature of all examples. For a thorough discussion on smoking see the manual or if you do not have a busy life spend a week looking at the d24 list (http://lists.subtend.net/mailman/listinfo/d24)
If someone has removed all the injectors and given you a printout of the results from a compression test then I would believe compression is low, smoking on its' own is probably a pump/timing/injector/unknown thing.
From your previous post it would surely be worthwhile to have another go at trying to establish who changed the cambelt, as this will save you £175 or so, which you can then spend on other things.

jor

[Laney760]

Apologies if I've missed something, but are you sure a rebuild is needed? The engines are considered to be hgihly reliable, so unless your car has ultra high mileage, or had the wrong oil used (!), or has been neglected (which does not appear to be the case) then it is unlikely to have low compression. If it starts ok and does around 35 mpg there cannot be a lot wrong with it. Smoking on startup is a feature of all examples. For a thorough discussion on smoking see the manual or if you do not have a busy life spend a week looking at the d24 list (http://lists.subtend.net/mailman/listinfo/d24)
If someone has removed all the injectors and given you a printout of the results from a compression test then I would believe compression is low, smoking on its' own is probably a pump/timing/injector/unknown thing.
From your previous post it would surely be worthwhile to have another go at trying to establish who changed the cambelt, as this will save you £175 or so, which you can then spend on other things.

jor


I take your point about the pump timing, its something that will be done soon but my gut feeling tells me it will make little difference but I hope you are right and it does. I will also look at the green manual, have it downloaded now but can't open the file yet despite having Adobe. My engine is still strong but not right. A lot of intermittent water loss with no trace, not heater matrix or anything else, probably head gasket just starting to go (between a cylinder & water jacket?), quite a bit of smoking if pushed hard in 1st, 2nd, lots if floored top end, some after motorway driving. Better up hills than I thought if you drive it v hard once warmed up but then quite a lot of smoking. Uphills before the engine is warmed up its foot to the floor just to crawl up it. I know this is really a motorway car, she gets a good run once a week but at the moment most of my driving is town, she does 28 point something if driven hard, nearly 32 if driven carefully and I've still room for improvement, I would love to get 40mpg motorway at constant 55-60, will be doing a big run soon to find out. Gut feeling tells me the seller lied, he cannot provide invoice or garage name, cambelt definitely not done but it's still a lot of car for £480, my personalised number plate starts K940, the rest of the number plate is also a bit special, my number plate alone has value. Find the smoking a bit unacceptable, I am really a bit of an environmentalist (in every way but motoring I do everything I can for the environment, put myself out time and money wise) but needs be financially, think the mpg I save is covering all the extra servicing required for a diesel but not a rebuild but with a rebuild I think it would be an excellent vehicle if serviced properly for years and would probably hold a decent value? I think if looked after I could recoup the money from the rebuild over a period of time. Love the 940, the seating, the vision, the suspension, brakes, steering, who says you can't throw them around (in the dry), the space, have fitted it with a full size roofrack and I'm a sucker for a big bonnet, lol.., I have zero rot or rust absolutely anywhere. Of course, if my engine starts all winter, passes mot (not to worried about that, ways around emissions), doesn't die on me, then maybe I could run the car cheaply for a few years until it died...

Hope I've not bored everyone to tears, have covered the engine's different problems over other threads

[jor]

All I can say is that, in common with the other members who have replied, this is a car that definitely grows on you with time. I got mine 3 years ago and apart from changing the oil and filters have not been required to do anything except replace a numberplate bulb for a MOT. So I think it is definitely worth finding out what needs doing on this car. As you have got a reasonable quote for cambelt replacement could you not get this chap to check for a headgasket leak and make decisions from there? The other way is to have the rebore outfit do the inspection and then proceed as necessary but this would require a degree of trust on your part. I have not seen any accounts or recommendations from forum users relating to rebuilds. I'm sure the 940 register keeper could be of help.
As per a previous post I do know a reliable garage but a long way from you (Wembley Motor Parts).
I was getting about 39 mpg from mine, but this was avoiding short runs, avoiding rush hour traffic and not exceeding 65 mph so as you can imagine I could hardly believe it having changed from a 940 LPT. Were the worst to happen I would definitely go for a rebuild/replacement engine rather than consider a different model.
BTW have a look at the air filter and chuck half a bottle of non synthetic ATF into a full tank before you do your long run.


jor

[Laney760]

I didn't mean on HP, I never get one that way either, what I meant was use your engine rebuild money and your volvo in a part ex deal. As for my engine it is a DI engine , not common rail.


I obviously need to gem up on newer models and their engines and what they've got on them in terms of extra expense. Thanks

[Laney760]

All I can say is that, in common with the other members who have replied, this is a car that definitely grows on you with time. I got mine 3 years ago and apart from changing the oil and filters have not been required to do anything except replace a numberplate bulb for a MOT. So I think it is definitely worth finding out what needs doing on this car. As you have got a reasonable quote for cambelt replacement could you not get this chap to check for a headgasket leak and make decisions from there? The other way is to have the rebore outfit do the inspection and then proceed as necessary but this would require a degree of trust on your part. I have not seen any accounts or recommendations from forum users relating to rebuilds. I'm sure the 940 register keeper could be of help.
As per a previous post I do know a reliable garage but a long way from you (Wembley Motor Parts).
I was getting about 39 mpg from mine, but this was avoiding short runs, avoiding rush hour traffic and not exceeding 65 mph so as you can imagine I could hardly believe it having changed from a 940 LPT. Were the worst to happen I would definitely go for a rebuild/replacement engine rather than consider a different model.
BTW have a look at the air filter and chuck half a bottle of non synthetic ATF into a full tank before you do your long run.


jor

Hi Jor

I changed my air filter, it was as if it had been in the Sahara for years, all the muck was underneath it and some has obviously got into the engine. The new air filter has made no difference to economy nor performance but I guess the engine must feel a bit better for a bit of clean air. I also forgot to mention another problem, she only had white smoke and never burned oil but since the diesel specialists got hold of her she now burns oil too and I've also got black smoke. Unhappy about this, I was going to use them to time my pump up but won't now, in time I want to try and do this myself. Yes, I will ask the garage doing the cambelt for their verdict on the head gasket but my gut feeling knows its that, I was hopeful when another mechanic told me it wasn't and that it was simply the turbo using water but this idea has been thoroughly rubbished on here, my first time with a turbo, I am a little ignorant still about workings of but another member has now explained. I wouldn't trust the engine rebuilders to diagnose my engine I'm afraid! Thanks for all the good advice and nice to know I'm not the only one who really likes this strange engined Volvo! Oh, by the way, I had a smoke test done at the diesel specialist who were recommended to me by a VW diesel mechanic and they diagnosed nothing wrong with the pump, injectors etc.., they diagnosed low compression but being as they thrashed the guts out of her cold and since then she's been worse, who knows if they're also not so specialist?

[jor]

Hope you stick with it as said before you are welcome to a loan of the timing stuff, cam tool and LARGE torque wrench if you are minded to get your hands dirty.
As it sounds likely that several bits may be needed for the car keep a lookout for a spare engine, which if you are lucky will have pump plus pipes etc. Last one I saw was from a seller by the name of "dogydave" but he does not appear to have any items on sale at the moment so it may have gone.
BTW if the gasket has gone compression readings will be out won't they?
A replacement injector will be approx £30 on a replacement basis.

jor

[Laney760]

Hope you stick with it as said before you are welcome to a loan of the timing stuff, cam tool and LARGE torque wrench if you are minded to get your hands dirty.
As it sounds likely that several bits may be needed for the car keep a lookout for a spare engine, which if you are lucky will have pump plus pipes etc. Last one I saw was from a seller by the name of "dogydave" but he does not appear to have any items on sale at the moment so it may have gone.
BTW if the gasket has gone compression readings will be out won't they?
A replacement injector will be approx £30 on a replacement basis.

jor



I'm now one hundred percent sure that my head gasket is not right because I am clearly heavily using coolant on motorway driving and the constant white exhaust emissions then are no doubt steam, my coolant going. Still no overheating though but I only do short motorway runs. I guess my next move is to get her looked at to confirm the head gasket problem and see if it is that causing the low compression or if that is also caused by worn ring gear? I am wondering if I have both problems if it is going to cost as much to do both as to have a complete rebuild, which will take me some time to save up for. (Someone on here mentioned the possibility of a rebore on one of these engines). I'm assuming a proper complete rebuild should not include a rebore but replacement of original worn parts?? Will check with the company concerned. The car is still going well and strong, I just have to be meticulous in checking my coolant. I've had to rule out a very long motorway run due in October, I don't fancy stopping every 100 miles or so and topping up coolant nor risking wrecking what is still a very usable engine. I am going to get the RAC recommended garage to diagnose my engine problems before they fit the cam belt the week after next, (perhaps as someone said I am wasting money having the cam belt done on this engine but I will have to continue running this engine whilst I save up for rebuild or replacement and would be gutted if the cam belt went in the meantime)

Will let you know the result of an engine diagnosis. I will also get them to quote me for putting in another engine as well as works required. If I am lucky enough to simply need a new head gasket and the head itself is ok, or if I decide to have the head gasket done and not any other work such as ring gear that requires doing, does anyone know how many hours labour this should take? Many thanks

[SeanO'Connor]

If you are loosing water into a cylinder through the head gasket, then yes you will have low compression, get the head fixed and your car will be transformed, don't waste money on an expensive rebuild.

[Laney760]

She was booked in on the 16th for the cambelt change with the diesel garage recommended by the RAC. The cam belt is now cancelled and she is booked in for diagnosis, they said it sounds like she is burning water in the cylinders but couldn't rule out water pump as she is burning water under load. If it is the head gasket they will put in a new headgasket and replace the cam belt for £600 plus vat which is pretty good so I will have some idea by the 16th what is wrong and think I can raise the money by the beginning of November. Getting excited about getting this engine up to scratch and then looking forward to having a tune up like Peter Milnes, lol, pushed her in first and second last night which I don't normally do to avoid smoking and was amazed how very fast she is as in 0-60 but now I'll behave and nurse her around until she is up to scratch! Will post this also on my other thread relevant to this, the head gasket or turbo using water thread and then update that when I have diagnosis as to what is wrong with her

[John Davies]

I bought a D24T engined car a while ago that was smoking and using water. A new steel head gasket, pump timing filters and standard service - oil and air filters changed etc. - swapping the injectors and regapping the valve clearances tranformed the situation. The MPG got a lot better as well.

I wouldn't go for a full rebuild unless there is significant bore wear and/or bottom end rattle. Water pumps etc are often cheap on ebay, but buy a Volvo head gasket. £90 ish, but worth it.

Be interested to hear how you get on

John Davies

[Laney760]

I bought a D24T engined car a while ago that was smoking and using water. A new steel head gasket, pump timing filters and standard service - oil and air filters changed etc. - swapping the injectors and regapping the valve clearances tranformed the situation. The MPG got a lot better as well.

I wouldn't go for a full rebuild unless there is significant bore wear and/or bottom end rattle. Water pumps etc are often cheap on ebay, but buy a Volvo head gasket. £90 ish, but worth it.

Be interested to hear how you get on

John Davies



I'm confused? Somebody else on here mentioned both a VW head gasket and a Volvo head gasket for this engine. So both make one? The garage will be supplying it, if that is what's wrong. Please tell me about the difference in VW and Volvo head gasket for my engine, thanks

[John Davies]

Right! The engine was developed by VW for Volvo and was used in the VW transporter vans for a while - 6though I think Volvo used it first. So either gasket will do. The thickness of the gasket is crucial however.

The bit of the gasket which is visible - sticking out between the top and bottom end of the engine will have notches cut in it - I fancy yours will have three, as a later engine, making it the thickest available. My own cars all use this one.

Regards

John D

[Laney760]

Right! The engine was developed by VW for Volvo and was used in the VW transporter vans for a while - 6though I think Volvo used it first. So either gasket will do. The thickness of the gasket is crucial however.

The bit of the gasket which is visible - sticking out between the top and bottom end of the engine will have notches cut in it - I fancy yours will have three, as a later engine, making it the thickest available. My own cars all use this one.

Regards

John D

Hi John

Yes, I know it's a VW engine, that's why I was confused, I'd always assumed that the gasket must therefore be made by VW and then people started talking about Volvo making one for it too! Thanks for the info about the thickness of the gasket. I once almost bought a nearly new Bosch diesel pump off of a VW transporter with the 6cyl engine in it for peanuts but although the Bosch pump was absolutely identical to mine the id number on it was different so I thought better of it - all a bit confusing! I think VW had a different id they used for this engine when they used it and I have yet to source what it is, perhaps Peter knows?

[jor]

The VW d24 engine, which was a developement from the d16 as used in the golf diesel, in order to be able to power both cars and light commercial vehicles, was purchased by Volvo for use in the the 240, 740 and 940.
VW used it in several vehicles such as the LT 28 and 35.
The pump is a Bosch item. After 1994 VW changed to a 2.4 TD engine, which is direct injection, as opposed to the d24 which has a separate pre-combustion chamber or indirect injection (idi). These later Bosch pumps are distinguishable from a photo even if a seller cannot give you the year of the vehicle from which it came.
As the engines differed in the number of cylinders i.e. 6 as opposed to 4, many components are common to all the engines, such as pistons, rings bearings, injectors, glow plugs and no doubt many other items.


jor