Cam belt /Water pump change

[surfer]

I have a 1998 V70 which I arranged to have serviced at a Volvo garage, including a new cam belt change just before going on my hols. The car has done 155K.
I asked for the water pump to be changed at the same time, but was talked out of it by the garage, as they said the never fail!
Guess what hapopens whilst in France? The water pump failed resulting in bent valves.
I ended up having to pay for a repair which came to almost the value of the car!
My question is, do the servicing schedules recommend the replacement of the water pump at the same time as the cam belt?
I could do with knowing before I pay a visit to the garage.
Many thanks

[BillB]

Volvo do not specify a water pump change although I insisted on it in my recent 160k cambelt change. If this is a reputable main dealer you have a strong case against them, as you can reasonably expect them to advise you of any risk involved in not changing a component. Have you already paid for the remedial work? If so, somehow you have to prove that they have advised you incorrectly. If, in their opinion, a Tdi water pump "never" fails then ask them to explain why yours has done. They must have checked the bearing on your pump whilst changing the belt. They don't just suddenly fail for no reason, it would be a more gradual wearing out that should be evident when checked. So, ask them if they checked it properly and, if not, why not. If they say they did check it and it was fine tell them an engineer has advised you that bearings don't suddenly fail for no reason. Make a fuss in the service reception area - they don't like that. Insist on a proper, qualified explanation. Components don't just fail suddenly for no reason. Regards.

[surfer]

Many thanks for the prompt response.
Yes I have had the repairs carried out, I had to get it done in France, but I have obtained the broken parts which were replaced.

[cboswell]

I have never really understood why the waterpump failing should have such a catastrophic effect, the pump is unlikely to seize as it has journal bearings or has your pump seized? I would suspect they have made a botch of the tensioning or you have been very unlucky with a flawed belt or tensioner. Either way they should be prepared to accept liability since the work has just recently been completed. It will be interesting to see what they're response is. Hope you get full compensation - Good Luck.

[surfer]

Went to the dealers today, and spent a good while negotiating with them. They still maintain they do not recommend a change with the water pump at the same time as a cam belt, as they rarely have any problems with them.
However, we eventually agreed what amounts to a credit note for half the cost of my repairs.
I accepted the offer rather than run the risk of getting nothing from them.
Can I recommend to others, for the relatively minimal cost of a water pump, that you change it at the same time as doing a cam belt change!!!

[Rufe]

They still maintain they do not recommend a change with the water pump at the same time as a cam belt, as they rarely have any problems with them.

They will maintain this as it is true and would be what any dealer (or even customer services at volvo uk) would tell you. I can say that we change timing belts here almost every day of the week and we have never automatically changed a water pump when doing a timing belt job. Your dealer is correct that they rarely fail. It is very unfortunate what has happened to you, but it is not common at all.

Obviously if the bearings from either the idler pulley or the water pump pulley are making excessive noise at the time of fitting a new timing belt then the parts should be changed, but if they were ok at the time of fitting, then they would not have been.

[BillB]

I've never heard of a water pump lasting 240k miles i.e. the Tdi belt change interval, as you'll know, is 80k. Would you happily leave the original w/pump in place at the 160k change, confident that it would last another 80k? I wouldn't. Regards.

[Laney760]

Went to the dealers today, and spent a good while negotiating with them. They still maintain they do not recommend a change with the water pump at the same time as a cam belt, as they rarely have any problems with them.
However, we eventually agreed what amounts to a credit note for half the cost of my repairs.
I accepted the offer rather than run the risk of getting nothing from them.
Can I recommend to others, for the relatively minimal cost of a water pump, that you change it at the same time as doing a cam belt change!!!



See:



http://www.southwestauto.com/volvo_service.asp


Ironically, this company that service Volvos point out the water pump as one component failure that can ruin a holiday and cause a huge bill. If you hadn't already accepted the 50 per cent credit note, I'd have printed off this Volvo company's servicing policy, sourced some other similar ones and taken your company to the Small Claims Court (5 grand max claim in England), your argument being that you asked for the work to be done and their 'expertise' advise against it was the cause of your financial loss and ruined holiday (although you cannot claim 'damages' for ruined holiday as such in Small Claims). I am female with a very very busy life who is desperate to make time to learn all they can about their new vehicle and how to do jobs themselves because I am sick and tired of garage's shoddy work, bad advice, rip off prices and refusal to accept responsibility when their mistakes cause more problems. I had a cd player fitted this week, in all it took four visits and lots of my time to sort out the resultant problems caused by the fitting. Glad you at least got 50 percent back

[Laney760]

This site, Telegraph Motoring, recommends the V70 tdi water pump change interval to be every ................. 60 thou

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:upQos6v5FJYJ:www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml%3Fxml%3D/motoring/2004/08/06/emrguide07.xml+volvo+v70+water+pump+when+to+change&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7

[Laney760]

This site recommends a change of water pump at 140K for your '98 model

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:KPsjNA4T55QJ:www.matthewsvolvosite. com/chat/phpBB2/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D14920+volvo+v70+water+pump+whe n+to+change&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=25

[phasesonix]

I have a 1998 V70 which I arranged to have serviced at a Volvo garage, including a new cam belt change just before going on my hols. The car has done 155K.
I asked for the water pump to be changed at the same time, but was talked out of it by the garage, as they said the never fail!
Guess what hapopens whilst in France? The water pump failed resulting in bent valves.
I ended up having to pay for a repair which came to almost the value of the car!
My question is, do the servicing schedules recommend the replacement of the water pump at the same time as the cam belt?
I could do with knowing before I pay a visit to the garage.
Many thanks


The 2.5Tdi is a VW engine so VW/audi would be the best people to ask.

If your doing the cambelt,It's always advisable to change the wp if it runs off the cam belt(it's common sense)as t's not much extra work and not much extra cost against it breaking-Don't know why they said not to do it-normally they try and get as much money out of you as possible.

[Clan]

They will maintain this as it is true and would be what any dealer (or even customer services at volvo uk) would tell you. I can say that we change timing belts here almost every day of the week and we have never automatically changed a water pump when doing a timing belt job. Your dealer is correct that they rarely fail. It is very unfortunate what has happened to you, but it is not common at all.

Obviously if the bearings from either the idler pulley or the water pump pulley are making excessive noise at the time of fitting a new timing belt then the parts should be changed, but if they were ok at the time of fitting, then they would not have been.

I'd Agree with all that said above and a water pump and all idler pulley bearing check should be carried out when changing the belt .. any roughness of the bearing or excessive play should have been noted and if the bearing failed shortly after its unlikely it was smoothly turning or had minimal play .. hence the garage paying half i guess ..

In this economic climate if a garage recommends having a perfectly good ( at that time) water pump changed at a cost probably double that of the job the car was booked in for , the first thing the customer is going to think is that he's being " ripped off " .... the garage trade can never win what ever it does .....

And in my long experience Volvo water pumps never have a bearing failure , cant vouch for VW however , although they seem to carry on that tradition .

[offset frontal]

I hate to add to the issue- you have had a raw deal. But my V70 D SE auto classic -late model - went to a non franchised volvo specialist who strongly advised- almost insisted on a precautionary water pump change when the cam belt was done at 99K recently.

So it seems that the 'garage' that advised you, may have, how can I put it, a lack of synergy within the structure of their product knowledge data base..... !

I can understand why you grabbed a bird in the hand, but they really might owe you more..

[Laney760]

I hate to add to the issue- you have had a raw deal. But my V70 D SE auto classic -late model - went to a non franchised volvo specialist who strongly advised- almost insisted on a precautionary water pump change when the cam belt was done at 99K recently.

So it seems that the 'garage' that advised you, may have, how can I put it, a lack of synergy within the structure of their product knowledge data base..... !

I can understand why you grabbed a bird in the hand, but they really might owe you more..



I agree entirely and if you haven't signed anything to say that the 50 per cent refund is 'in full and final settlement', I would return to the garage with the internet pages I have linked to printed off and call their bluff, saying that if they are not prepared to refund the full amount then you will be taking them to the small claims court. I think you may get a result. In theory you should and will win, in reality it depends upon which judge you get and what mood he is in. At worst you may have thrown away about £70 but I would pursue if I were you, I think they may well pay up when they get their first serving and the option to settle with you, there is plenty of reference on the net to failed water pumps on this model so they advised you wrongly...

[Grunthos]

Yes absolutely- you might as well go for it if they are a main dealer. They hate county court actions and adverse publicity in equal measure so dont forget to mention you have been discussing this on the owners club site and everyone on here wants to know the name of this dodgy dealer who gives bad advice and wont put their money where their mouths are...

I recently went to an independant garage to have the cam and diesel pump belts replaced on my '97 V70 and they were insistent the water pump must be changed as a matter of course - sugested I follow the Audi suggestion of 60k mile intervals rather than the Volvo 80 k one and said they would also check the tensioner or pulley too if these were showing signs of wobble.

It took less than an extra hour to change the water pump and I sourced the part from GSF for a little over £ 25. It just makes sense to take that extra care when it's only the same cost as a curry and a couple of beers.