ETS Light - ETM failure -> Volvo US admits to problem.

[Muscas]

I'm glad to see some action on the ETS problem. Mine failed at 71000 miles while my wife was overtaking a truck at 60 mph on a three lane road... not even slightly amusing. It failed several yimes after that and eventually the car became undriveable. After contacting various people, including Don Willson at Vexed Volvo, I ended up having the throttle body replaced at Stratstone's, our local dealer, who were very helpful. Volvo, however, are refusing to offer any money towards the work because there is a gap in the service history of the car (last main dealer service november 2004 at 64000 miles, no work in 2005 because the car was out of use for most of the year).

This is not a service related problem and is, in spite of what the Volvo Club say a safety issue. How dangerous does it have to be? Unexpected and devastating loss of power in the middle of a three lane road? Stories of the same on the motorway at 70mph +?

Volvo say they are paying up in America because of the tougher emission regulations there but this is not an emissions issue either! It's caused, as I understand, by a software malfunction and should be Volvo's responsibility.

Add my name to the list, please and help get my £580 back!

James Brunning
Gisburn
Lancashire
V70 2.5SE December 1997, fsh to 64000.

Help!

Another happy Volvo customer!

Volvo can certainly no longer boast that there cars are among'st the safest in the world.

As for the VOC's stance on this issue, shameful.

[Oli]

As for the VOC's stance on this issue, shameful.

What is the VOC's stance?

Oli

[Muscas]

What is the VOC's stance?

Oli

Exactly?

Having spoke with Bob via e-mail the VOC are of the opinion that this issue is not safety related................

Regards

Patrick

[Welshboyglos]

and as a matter of principal it is the reason that we won't be renewing our VOC membership.

Call me stupid but I thought that the club was there to be a voice for it's members. Clearly Volvo are in the wrong here and the club seems to be keeping quiet so as not to ruffle any feathers or tread on anyone's toes.

What purpose can the club have other than getting everyone together for a chat? It should be there for it's members and support them, especially now when it's costing lots of members due to something that should be rectified by Volvo with the pressure of the VOC.

Who else is going to be noticed? not any tom dick or harry will be that's for sure, but a group that Volvo UK recognise?? You'd have thought that they would respond to that and fix this potentially lethal problem once and for all and issue a recall.

Still I don't this it's ever gonna happen.

Just because the issue "is not safety related" (how they figure that I just don't comprehend) should they just stand by and watch as their members get ripped off by Volvo? Too many people have a problem with this unit and that is WHY it should be recalled.

Rant over.

[Rbphot]

I support you guys completely on this issue, I don't have the problem with the ETM as my V70R is a 98 model.

But this is the reason I won't hand over any cash to be a full paid up member, with the size of this club they should be supporting it's members if problems like this turn up.

And not sticking there heads in the sand, just because it doesn't affect them..

Ray

[Oli]

Hey Melvyn (Volvo2),

Noticed that you're watching this post just now. In another thread on this topic you posted this:

"Today VOSA informed me that following discussions they have received confirmation from Volvo that an action to address the ETM issue has been agreed.

The action to contact consumers is not expected to start until about four week’s time. Apparently the action will be progressive in that those who have reported problems will be dealt with first.

VOSA also inform me that Volvo have suggested that in due course individuals affected should contact the Customer Care Dept at Marlow (08457 564636)"

Have you any update on what the fix is going to be?

Has anybody heard from Volvo directly about this?

Cheers

Oli

[Track_Rod]

Since my original reply from Volvo GCR (posted here 24th May), I forwarded their response to Volvo UK with some additional questions for clarification.

Despite them suggesting that 3 days was usual for a response I chased them yesterday. They claim not to have received my correspondence so I have resubmitted today - directly rather than from their website.

I will post any response.

Interestingly enough the one independent Volvo specialist I visited recently for test drives seemed unaware of the issue.

I have yet to visit another soon and will ask the same questions.

[Nick44]

Hi,
My 2001 V70 2.4 T still has the origional one at 110K miles. Car came from GE Commercial Fleet and I have a print out of everything that has ever been done to it.
Had a brake servo unit at 83K though.
Nick.

[Welshboyglos]

as soon as we consulted our mechanic (ex volvo) he knew what the problem was from the symtoms.

The dealership "could find no fault" after keeping the car for 24hrs and a couple of trips to them

Nick44 - I would be wary as our dealer would not issue us with any paperwork regarding the warranty work surrounding this issue (well they said they would but that was month's ago - will chase them tomorrow actually).

I guess that there is a sinister reason for this. If they don't record it then there is no proof that there has been a problem and they walk away when the unit fails again after it's software update. Clever though I'll grant them

From a customer service issue it has been a disaster. Different people have received different offers for help toward the cost of replacement. Working in a customer services job elsewhere I urge ANYONE who has to have their unit replaced don't pay until you can get an offer of at LEAST 75%. They will do it if you hold out for it. Some people have had offers of a miserly 10% - which we get anyway as VOC members. This is Volvo's problem and they will have to deal with it - and pay up.

I was not happy with the dealing of this problem by Johnsons in Gloucester - they've been a nightmare. It seems that this diabolical treatment is a pandemic one throughout Volvo.

Keep trying!

[volvo2]

Oli,

Because there seemed no real interest or support from this website I had pretty much given up reporting back. Yes, there have been developments but the news is not good. The ‘action’ is merely a version of the so called software upgrade. I copy my last e-mail of 8/6/2006 to VOSA below. Mr Sweetings response was simply to say that he had raised the issue of the replacement (ETM) units, but Volvo disagree. Hardly surprising that Volvo doesn’t feel it necessary to suffer the cost of replacing these faulty units.

Melvyn


Dear Mr Sweeting,

I wonder if you could please clarify what form this action to 'fix' the faulty ETM will take? From communication with Volvo UK it would seem that in fact their position has not really changed. If I understand correctly, Volvo only intends to offer software up grades in the UK. This is quite different to the free replacement units offered in the USA. It is very clear that this software change will not solve what is a hardware design fault (i.e. the premature wearing out of a potentiometer track). All the software change may do is slightly delay the onset of the premature failure of a device that should last the life of the car. So all we have is a little window dressing. We are still left with a ticking time bomb under the bonnet. These cars will continue to suddenly suffer power loss at any time and without warning. In my opinion, the only acceptable course of action is for Volvo UK to offer a free fault-free replacement for those cars fitted with these faulty Magnetti Marelli ETMs.

I am not sure if you have had a chance to look at http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/index.html There is some very interesting reading there. Specifically, there seems to be evidence that:

1. Volvo was fully aware of this problem back in 2002.
2. Volvo expects 94% of cars to fail within 100,000 miles.

Can VOSA not simply insist that based on the evidence the faulty units be replaced at Volvo's cost?

I am sorry if I seem a little annoyed over this but I can hardly believe that so many consumers have been ripped off and placed in this dangerous position by such an established manufacturer.

Regards

Dr Melvyn Smith

Hey Melvyn (Volvo2),

Noticed that you're watching this post just now. In another thread on this topic you posted this:

"Today VOSA informed me that following discussions they have received confirmation from Volvo that an action to address the ETM issue has been agreed.

The action to contact consumers is not expected to start until about four week’s time. Apparently the action will be progressive in that those who have reported problems will be dealt with first.

VOSA also inform me that Volvo have suggested that in due course individuals affected should contact the Customer Care Dept at Marlow (08457 564636)"

Have you any update on what the fix is going to be?

Has anybody heard from Volvo directly about this?

Cheers

Oli

[Oli]

Melvyn

For a while there, I was hoping that Mr Sweeting was going to be our man. He'd replied to me before saying that discussions were underway. I'll follow up with him too.

The stats you mention can not be ignored. Don@Vexed Volvo has done a grand job on investigating this. The US has also upped its investigation despite, the implemented extended warranty, because the authorities there are taking the saftey risk seriously (in addition to the emissions issue that led to the warranty extension in the first place).

And, there are people here interested, so please keep us uptodate with your progress on this issue.

Cheers

Oli

[Don Willson]

Hi gang,

I have added at a few links at http://vexedvolvo.org. On the Contents page look at "What volvo knew in early 2002 (should be 2004)" See the ETM Focus team Power Point presentation.

Campaign 155 in North America requires the dealer to upload the software if the owner requests. I had my son's car, which is why I am in this fight, and had the software updated. The car did handle better. The service manager said this was because the parameters were reset to 'performance' settings then as you drive the car will learn your driving style.

Notice that the original ETM had a mean life of a little over 47,000 miles and the replacement 'improved' to 57,000 miles. Hey you math whizes, what do they mean by 'Targer = 50,000' miles. I thought they designed for 100,000 miles.

Look at page 15, 'Conclusions' where they say "--- but still has an unacceptable life expectancy" and " Cleaning--- cannot prevent the ultimate failure of the component."

Then note page 16, "VCC needs to develop a replacement --- that will meet customer expectations for life expectancy and trouble-free operation". and "All involved VCC departments must do what thecan to reduce the cost of this repair to the consumer."

Norman Friberg has since 'retired'. I have sent this to the appropriate people but have received no response.

Dn Willson
VEXEDvolv.org
VEXEDvolvo@comcast.net

[Oli]

Hello Don,

Just tried following your new threads. Your homepage comes up, but the link to the new section just gives me a blank page. Can you fix it?

Regards

Oli

[Track_Rod]

Very interesting reading indeed. Thanks for the update Don.

[Oli]

Hello Don,

Just tried following your new threads. Your homepage comes up, but the link to the new section just gives me a blank page. Can you fix it?

Regards

Oli

OK working now. Think it was a popup blocker issue my end.

V. interesting info Don.

Oli

[Welshboyglos]

For those that are interested. I finally got the invoice regarding the upgrade.

It cost a mere £18.84 - that's what was billed to Volvo Cars Uk Ltd C/O CAr Care Plan Bradford.

Not an unreasonable charge to levy at people for a fault they knew existed to be held at bay for an undeterminable period of time.

But at least I got the invoice for my file!

[terry_cunnane]

Hi,

Looking through the records of my newly bought 1999 V70 I see the ETM was replaced at 61k miles and 124k miles.
Ridiculous isn't it? I guess I might have until 180k miles if I'm lucky!

Terry

[Muscas]

For those that are interested. I finally got the invoice regarding the upgrade.

It cost a mere £18.84 - that's what was billed to Volvo Cars Uk Ltd C/O CAr Care Plan Bradford.

Not an unreasonable charge to levy at people for a fault they knew existed to be held at bay for an undeterminable period of time.

But at least I got the invoice for my file!

Hi, please forgive me but did you have to pay for the ETS software upgrade?
i.e. the 18.84 or was it recharged to Volvo UK

Regards

Patrick

[Oli]

Hi, please forgive me but did you have to pay for the ETS software upgrade?
i.e. the 18.84 or was it recharged to Volvo UK

Regards

Patrick

I've just had my 90k mile service (actually at 81k miles). I've been complaining to the dealer for a while about coughing and spluttering and cutting out. Never any fault codes to read by the time it gets to them though.

However, they volunteered to put new ETM and ECM? software in at the service. Charged me 50 pence I notice on the cost sheet for both (inv VAT).

Been a week now, and no sign of the old problems, but we all know that this must be just a temp fix as the real problem is the wearing out of the contacts.

I have to say that the car is driving differently. Seems to be a bit sluggish, unless you floor it. Used to have a good sporty twitch to it, now seems a bit stifled. Maybe it's still learning what to do (if it's a learning system). Let's see how we get on.

Oli

[sierraman]

Hi

Anyone who reads earlier on is this thread will know that my V70 also suffers with various symtoms of the etm fault. Anyway when my car was serviced in February i had the etm & ignition barrell cleaned and for the few weeks the car was no different. However since then the car has been almost perfect and now never trys to cut out-stall/alter speed or rev by itself. It does however get very sluggish at times and feels underpowered. Sometimes it is appalling at pulling away from the lights and other times it goes like a rocket.

Anyway at least the car now appears to be reliable and not trying to kill me. This has got me wondering if weather conditions can effect the etm's as i notice when it is cooler that the car is less responsive? I also had loads of problems with trying to start the car and it used to rev up and down by itself and then cut out.(I was told that along with etm fault codes that it was showing immobilzer /alarm fault codes as well)

Thankfully these faults have now dissappeared and i really don't know what to do about the etm. I have a WMS warranty until December and if i get the etm replaced it could be worse than my existing one. Should i get the software upgrade or will it make my car worse....What a nightmare?

Finally the most i seem to get out of my v70 is 26mpg around town (2000W Classic 140 bhp) is this about right or is the etm effecting this also (books say 31 -33 mpg)

Has anyone else experienced these problems or had the etm cleaned during a service?

If someone does have the etm replaced...should the sensor on the accelerator be replaced also? The garage i had my car serviced at says both need to be replaced together in order to cure the problem.

[Track_Rod]

I have finally received a response from Volvo UK on their position.

It has taken several weeks and 3 attempts to get a response from them. What I originally did, was forward the response I had received from Volvo Global Customer Relations (posted earlier in this thread), requesting further clarification ;

"I can confirm that software is now available for approximately 30% of the cars affected. We hope to roll out the rest of the software in the coming weeks. We will not look to charge customers for this upgrade.

In our experience, the software has fixed the majority of running faults reported prior to installation. In addition, when our dealers carry out the update, we have also asked them to clean out the throttle body and the crankcase ventilation system. Poor servicing can cause carbon deposits in these areas. "

[simmo]

When it says that the dealers will "clean out the throttle body and crankcase" does this imply that they will be doing it free of charge along with the software upgrade?
IIRC Volvo wanted a couple hundred quid to clean out the ETB. My car is getting progressivley worse with regards starting / idleing etc and having just had a baby daughter cannot really afford the best part of 1000 pounds to replace the defective parts.

[Nick I]

Hi Track_Rod


I have sent you a private message concerning the Volvo UK letter.

Regards .... Nick

Volvolemon Action Group Australia (VAGA)

Canberra

[Nick I]

My email to VOSA UK

Dear Mr Sweeting,
VOSA UK

I understand (although please correct me if I am wrong) that VOSA have negotiated with Volvo UK only the ETM software upgrade.

If this correct, this is a very disappointing outcome indeed.

Volvo needs to not only update the software but also replace faulty ETMs until it finds a permanent fix for the problem. This is the only way the major safety concerns can be addressed both now and in the longer term.

Volvo owners worldwide are deeply concerned about the safety issues surrounding the failure of this ETM. We are all reliant on Government bodies like yours to do the right thing by it's customers, ie Volvo owners.

It seems NHTSA in the US is the only such body that is taking the ETM issue seriously. I hope that you can prove this not to be the case for the UK.

As Australia is a smaller market we rely on organisations like NHTSA and VOSA to provide leadership and a way forward to resolving (not patching up) the ETM problem.

I also hear disturbing news that some misinformed or mischievous individuals infer the ETM issue is not a safety issue.

However here are Volvo's own words:

Conclusions' where they say "--- but still has an unacceptable life expectancy" and " Cleaning--- cannot prevent the ultimate failure of the component." and this:

"VCC needs to develop a replacement --- that will meet customer expectations for life expectancy and trouble-free operation". and "All involved VCC departments must do what thecan to reduce the cost of this repair to the consumer."

You can find the above Volvo documents at www.vexedvolvo.org see under the heading "What Volvo knew from 1998 to early 2004."

and this - Volvo's own concern about safety in advice to its NA customers:

Dear Mr. Mxxxxxx,

Thank you for contacting Volvo Cars.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is still involved in the investigation into the electronic throttle module that is found in some of our model cars. We take the concerns of our owners in this matter very seriously and we are cooperating with NHTSA in determining the scope,
frequency and safety consequences of the complaints.

Once a definitive course of correction action and resolution has been reached to ensure vehicle safety, Volvo will notify all owners involved. At this time, we would suggest that you hold onto your receipt until the issue is resolved. You may want to periodically check with our Customer Care Department at 1-800-458-1552 for the latest information on this topic.

We understand that this experience is not to your expectation and for that we do apologize.

Sincerely,

Bxxx Cxxxx
Volvo Cars of North America


I and many others look forward to your response, with much interest.

Regards

Nick Ilic
VAGA
Canberra, Australia

[Nick I]

I have just sent this email to the VOC contact mail box.

Hi VOC and the relevant forum site,

I represent the Volvolemon Action Group Australia, and have posted my concerns about the ETM issue on your forum here: http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=8536&page=28

I have read some past posts and it seems many UK Volvo owners are very displeased with VOC's lack of interest in assisting UK Volvo owners and/or VOC members in resolving this ETM issue.

I have been involed in establishing both Volvo and Peugeot Clubs here in Australia, and in all cases representing the membership was the key objective.

Serious commercial activity or linkage or favouritism or being "in bed" with the auto maker was discouraged. We wanted to ensure total independence and capability in being able to voice or own views and influence improvements to vehicle ownership. The Volvo ETM issue would be a case in point.

I could be wrong, but it seems the VOC is reluctant to get its hands dirty by involving itself with the ETM issue. Does your Club's constitution prevent this?

I would like to see the VOC take on an active role in dealing with the ETM issue, and would see no reason why it shouldn't. But your views for good or not so good reasons may differ.

It seems however your own members would like the VOC to be proactive in dealing with the ETM issue. The way I see it, if the VOC as it does has no problem in promoting the Volvo product then it should have no problem in promoting a safe product for its members or indeed potential members without worrying about upsetting its relationship with the Volvo manufacturer and its dealer network.

I look forward to your response.

Regards

Nick
VAGA

[Nick I]

This is some info about our Volvo:

We have a 1999 V70 with no ETM issues to date with 185,000 ks on the clock

We do change the engine oil and filter every 5000 ks/or three months whichever comes first. We use a quality synthetic oil that I source from a wholesaler.

Always use minimum 95 ron fuel.

At every oil change I put a quality fuel injection cleaner in the tank. However, if we do many short trips, the cleaner goes in monthly.

I feel that the throttle body stays much cleaner with quality oil changed regularly along with fuel cleaner additive.

Fitting a K&N air cleaner would also help.

I also think the crankcase recirculating breather pipe which is plumbed into the ETM should in fact be plumbed into the airfilter box on the air intake side. I will seek more info on the latter.

Cheers .... Nick Ilic

Volvo Lemon Action Group Australia

[volvo2]

For information:

Dear Mr Sweeting,

Thank you for your e-mail and my apologies for the delay in my reply.

As you might imagine, I am disappointed to hear this. As I mentioned before, Volvo are hardly likely to recommend that they themselves engage in a costly recall.

There is now plenty of evidence pointing to a safety problem, yet apparently you are prepared to take the word of the manufacturer. If you have looked into the cause of the problem then you must know that it cannot be solved by altering the software. There is an obvious test to confirm that this is not the solution. All we need do is look to see how the problem has been solved for later model cars. I feel certain it was not by changing the software. Rather they will have fitted a different design of ETM because as everyone knows the units fitted are faulty and dangerous.

Perhaps you could tell me under what circumstances VOSA would take action and what powers you have.

Frankly, I thought we had more protection than this in the UK.

Regards

Dr Melvyn Smith

[Nick I]

Well said Melvyn,

Here is my email that I sent tonight to our VAGA team, Volvo et all.

VOLVO ETM FAILURE ISSUE - AS IT STANDS NOW FOR AU VOLVO OWNERS

Dear VAGA friends, and other key people, please read the email from Volvo
Sweden below, and

Here are the all up facts for the moment as it see it, in condensed form:

1. Volvo Cars is controlled by Ford. Ford has a poor history when it comes
to recalls. They would rather pay for a death or two or more as it is
cheaper than a recall. So you wonder about the quality outcomes and power of
any government's public servants.
2. Volvo knew about the ETM issue as a major problem in 1998. Subsequent
evidence reflected in Volvo's own documents as can be viewed at
www.vexedvolvo.org The documents should be read by all.
3. Because they knew the ETM was a "dud" they dropped it for subsequent
models after 2001.
4. There are major safety concerns with the ETM as you all well know.
5. Who do you think is letting you down as the protector of such issues for
you. Volvo obviously, VOSA in the UK who have only been able to negotiate
the software update for UK Volvo owners. As for DOTARS in AU (sorry
Lawrence) so far we have nothing. If you read the email below from Ms Ryder,
we have no control over anything. Unless DOTARS sticks it up Volvo. So I
ask, what's the point of "Global Customer Relations"? - You decide!
6. My advice - is it worthwhile continuing the fight? Maybe. However there
are so many other cars out there, equal to or better than a Volvo. So maybe
we could off load our Volvos and let some other owner deal with the ETM
problem and leave it to the authorities to sought out issues down the track
if ever.
7.Would I buy another Volvo - never - even if they fixed the ETM issue. But
then again our V70 is one of four cars that we own. It could go tomorrow.
8. I do feel very sorry for those who have a passion for Volvo. I like
Peugeots (we have 2) and I adore, dare I say our Ford Fairlane, and the V70
for the moment is very nice.
9. But many of you have a Volvo as your main car, you may have more than one
Volvo in the garage, and have felt very proud about your choice but now feel
a tad betrayed by Volvo. Would you pass on your Volvo to your son or
daughter, or friend?
10. At least VOSA in the UK were able to negotiate the updated software, as
a start to assist its clients, the citizens of the UK, ie existing and
potential Volvo owners. Was the negotiated outcome strong enough - no.
11. At the very least, we here in Australia deserve what the UK people got.
Lets hope DOTARS and the NRMA can convince Volvo Sweden to do the right
thing for us Aussies. An interesting point do you think?
12. Volvo UK seem to care more for their customers than Volvo Cars AU for
theirs.
13. We must thank Don Willson whose site resides at www.vexedvolvo.org , for
his expertise and dedication in exposing the ETM failure issue and his
desire to help pave a way for Volvo to rectify the ETM failure permanently.

You may wish to contact Volvo Sweden (as you can see they won't respond to
any of my future emails to them), maybe someone higher up the ladder,
DOTARS, the responsible Minister or whoever to lobby for a positive outcome.

If you don't feel like doing any of the above, then maybe it is time to
consider your next purchase. The way I see it, oil reserves are on the way
out and so maybe the car. In the meantime why not enjoy your vehicle, other
than a Volvo?

Cheers ... Nick


----- Original Message -----
From: "GLOBAL CUST RELTNS, GCR (.)" <gcr@volvocars.com>
To: <ni-ilic@grapevine.net.au>
Sent: Thursday, 13 July 2006 7:22 PM
Subject: JR file ref No 74355



Dear Mr. Ilic,

We acknowledge receipt of your new email. I do not know if the software in
question will be adequate for your market, so I do not know if or when Volvo
Car Corporation has any intention of releasing that software in Australia.
At any rate, Volvo Car Australia will be the first to know.

As I have already told another Australian gentleman persuing the ETM
question, decisions concerning matters such as this are taken at a higher
level within the company, neither you nor I have any means of influencing
such discussions.

We are sure that you will understand that we are powerless to assist you any
further with your requests. We would therefore like to inform you that all
further correspondence from you to Volvo Car Corporation in Sweden will be
filed with interest but without further action.

Yours sincerely,
________________________________
Jeanette Ryder
Global Customer Relations Manager
Acting
Dept 57130, SAA2
Volvo Car Corporation
SE-40531 Göteborg,
Sweden

Telephone: +46 31 3250077
Fax: +46 31 59 55 55
Website: www.volvocars.com/gcr

[Track_Rod]

I think there is some great work being done here by members of the VOC.

I have yet to see any official standing from the VOC on this matter. I did read through the whole of this thread some weeks ago, so apologies if I missed such.

However, the information presented here (and the links to Vexed Volvo etc.) was sufficient to totally put me off purchasing my preferred choice of a used petrol V70. Opted for the S60 D5 as I wanted to stick with Volvo.

Some very valid points raised in the recent posts regarding Ford's attitude toward recalls - sadly we have to remember now that the parent company is Ford.

So come VOC, stop sitting on the fence.

[simmo]

Has anyone on here has the update done to their cars? what work was involved by volvo? was it just the software. The reason I ask is that I have approached Volvo in Bradford with regards to fixing the irratic idle and this is their response:

good afternoon stuart

sorry for delay in responding

cost of etm clean out is £272.00p inclusive of:
remove/install inlet manifold.{essenstial to effect a
long term fix} remove/install etm
de-carbonise both units,rebuild.
apply software & road test.
earliest booking is next monday,car req'd minimum 1/2day.


DOES THIS SEEM REASONABLE? I would expect some sort of % discount as they must be aware of this problem with the 2001 MY ETMS

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,
Has anyone on here has the update done to their cars? what work was involved by volvo? was it just the software. The reason I ask is that I have approached Volvo in Bradford with regards to fixing the irratic idle and this is their response:

good afternoon stuart

sorry for delay in responding

cost of etm clean out is £272.00p inclusive of:
remove/install inlet manifold.{essenstial to effect a
long term fix} remove/install etm
de-carbonise both units,rebuild.
apply software & road test.
earliest booking is next monday,car req'd minimum 1/2day.


DOES THIS SEEM REASONABLE? I would expect some sort of % discount as they must be aware of this problem with the 2001 MY ETMS
Given that the issue seems to lie with Volvo, as per the above numerous informative posts, I would suggest that you point out to the dealer that this is a result of their failures in original manufacture of the vehicle.

I would also suggest that you forward the comments for cost/work to Volvo Customer Care, point out that it is a recognised issue, both here and in the US, that can be considered as being an issue the vehicles were unfit for purpose with the fault unit and that you do not see why YOU should be paying to rectify their faults.

I can say, without a doubt, that I was most unhappy when Fud bought out Volvo.. Worst move ever in the history of Volvo I think.

Des. . . ;)

[Gregor]

Hi folks,

My ETS warning light came on last week while i was on holiday in Perthshire so i phoned Strathmore volvo in Perth who took the car in the next day to run a diagnostic check to see what the prob was, no suprises i needed a new ETM, i got them to phone Volvo but the response was not very good, apparantly they have a sliding scale of help for people with this problem which stops at cars over 6 years old (mine is 7 with only 53000 miles on the clock) and that my failure is due to wear and tear! Well im not a happy bunny but what can i do, i give Strathmore the go ahead to fix it which they did the same day and the car is running sweet as now. I'll give you a break down of the costs:

Parts: Throttle housing 381.50
ETM reload 27.80

Labour: Electronic throttle module intake manifold clean 78.00
Diagnostic trouble codes reading/resetting 13.00
Software control module downloading 6.50

All prices plus V.A.T

I got my pollen filter changed (£30.80 including labour ex vat) aswell so the total bill was 631.68, im planing on challenging Volvo myself but dont expect to get anywhere but you never know.

Ive done well since getting the car, its needed a new steering rack/wheel bearing/back discs and now the ETM !! surely thats it for a while ive nearly rebuilt the bloody thing:Not_Impressed:

Gregor.

[simmo]

After speaking to my local dealer about the problem with my ETM they suggested a clean and the new software for the princely sum of 272.

I have since spoken to them with regards some sort of discount for the work and got a very cold response. NO! my car (a 2001 S60) doesn't fall within their criteria (all to do with VIN Numbers aparantly) sounded like a load of waffle to me.
So I spoke to volvo uk who instantly said yes no problem we will give 50% off the price. I was fishing for more after a heated debate with the customer services chap who himself admitted that Volvo UK are DRAGGING THEIR HEELS his words not mine!
He also admits that this won't cure the problem and that it could happen again and again until the unit fails completly. When it does i shall be entitled to another 50% off parts and labour.

[Gregor]

Just to add to my above post, strathmore told me that volvo were still working on the software upgrade? and when it was done they would get intouch with me direct and arrange for me to get it loaded free of charge. Wow their generosity bowls me over.

[Stamford267]

Hello everyone.
Please excuse if this in wrong place, newbie contributor.
The ETM on my 2000 V70 2.4 10v is failing at 99000. All the usual symptoms. Have had a nightmare with Volvo UK and absolutely NO help from local dealer. I can source a replacement from an engine with 57,000 miles. Anyone know if it's a simple changeover job? I suspect not, and there are software implications. Any help appreciated. Don't really want to fork out to have it changed by a company who have so far failed to help me or even acknowledge in writing waht the problem is!

[Chris_Rogers]

The secondhand module may be OK if it's from the exact same model car as your own.
The other alternative is to have your existing module repaired.

Try:

http://www.bba-reman.com/volvo_throttle_actuator.htm

[slender]

My attention was brought to this thread from a posting I made on Monday following less than satisfactory results IMMEDIATELY AFTER the recall work was done by the dealer. You may want to read what has happened to me and what could happen to you:
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?p=134244#post134244

[volvo2]

I am told by VOSA that VOSA approves of Volvo's software up-grade solution to the ETM problem. In addition, as a matter of interest, following my suggestion, VOSA have this morning contacted the police forces who use/used Volvo cars. Apparently they report “NO PROBLEMS” whatsoever with ETMs.

So there you have it. VOSA are happy and we should be happy. It would seem there are no safety problems to worry about or if there is a problem it is being fully resolved.

So that's comforting. I hope they are right.

M Smith

[Oli]

Well, I've just had the software upgrade installed at the last service, for which I paid 50 pence by the way, following a year of comments from me to dealer about intermittent [ETM] problem. Assured this would fix it. However, within less than a 1000 miles of the service, the same symptoms have occured on at least 3 seperate occasions, including rough idle, erratic revving when driving along and stalling.

I must report this to the dealer before the week is out. And I'll write to VOSA again.

So in my view and experience, the software is not even a fix, and I've not even discussed the reduction in fuel economy (about 5%) and the sluggish feel to the drive of the car now.

Oli

[jthrppel]

Here one more ETM failure.
I had to take our v70 (2000 lpt) to the dealer for the replacement of electronic throttle system (ETS) module which costs about €538 plus labor plus VAT. The prelude to this is that there was a water bottle rattling around on the floor in the car which probably hit the wires going to the airbag and seat belt sensor etc. This started a SRS fault light to come on which meant taking to the dealership for a reset. Everything was fine and we drove about 400 hwy miles and two days later when the odometer was exactly at 60000 and while driving under 30 mph the ETS light came on. If you turn the engine off and the key out for 5 minutes or so it will restart and run fine either for a short while or for a long while. We took to the dealer and they thought it might be best to clean the unit first if it cures the problem. However after about 30 miles of hwy running and when got off to secondary roads the light came on and not only that, reappeared even at a higher frequency (turning off and restarting will only allow 5-10 miles at the most.I have seen it only happened during lower running speeds (ie. have not seen it at highway speeds). So last Saturday night I disconnected the battery and left overnight hoping it resets the computer. Sunday and Monday we did not drive and yesterday the car behaved very normal. I am not sure whether the dealer upgraded the software (as they are doing in the States) while resetting the SRS light and that sparked the whole issue. We were charged about €110 for the reset.
Last week I also wrote to Volvo Ireland (whose customer service rep in vacation but soon will be back), the consumer affairs ombudsperson, who suggested that I should write to the vehicle safety section of the our Dept. of Transport. Now I have written to all parties. Have not heard back from them yet. I am also planning to pursue the matter through EU consumer protection/vehicle safety section. The more complaints received the impact would be more.
We had very few problems with this car, the major ones being the MAF and the Electric Window Control Unit on the driver side, shift position LEDs and the boot latch problem (known issues with v70s). Here the replaced window control unit one is partly faulty after 24 months. My other Volvo 945 still reliable after 16 years and 125K miles although we do not drive it much because it is LHD.
jthrppel
Dublin, Eire

[Muscas]

Hi, Thanks for your helpful post and your first post.

The more consumer action the better, and from as many countries the better.

Good luck

Patrick

[slender]

I am told by VOSA that VOSA approves of Volvo's software up-grade solution to the ETM problem. In addition, as a matter of interest, following my suggestion, VOSA have this morning contacted the police forces who use/used Volvo cars. Apparently they report “NO PROBLEMS” whatsoever with ETMs.

So there you have it. VOSA are happy and we should be happy. It would seem there are no safety problems to worry about or if there is a problem it is being fully resolved.

So that's comforting. I hope they are right.

M Smith

I can categorically assure you that at least one UK police force DOES have problems with ETM's - because I have asked. 'No problem whatsoever' is a very robust denial. I know for a fact that problems have been experienced with V70's used by a very large police force. A question under the Freedom Of Information Act addressed to Police Fleet Managers around the country could result in a different response to that stated by VOSA.

[ollieoxford]

to continue reading this after all this time, to see the dishonest dealings of Volvo/Ford in this matter to avoid solving the problem. Its is simply procrastination, the longer they delay, the more cars are finally scrapped and the problem will simply eventually go away. VOSA obviously has no teeth disappointingly, and the BBC couldn't manage much embarrisment. So we end up paying to continually replace a component that is not fit for purpose and worse potentially unsafe.

Now if this was the US, some no-win no-fee young laywer would be after a class action on this. I suspect Ford/Volvo has paid off anyone who has actually been injured (worse killed) by the failure of this component.

I like my Volvo's but now I will never buy another one.

[Muscas]

I like my Volvo's but now I will never buy another one.

I quite agree with you Ollie, sad state of affairs.

I used to be Volvo's biggest fan, having owned many different models over the last 10 years. Likewise this is the last Volvo I will ever purchase.

My last conversation with Volvo UK, I am certain they were pleased I had experienced problems with my car. To be honest the thing that angers me the most is Volvo UK's unaccectable attitute and unwillingness to offer a replacement.

I would go far as saying that any Volvo fitted with this type of ETM is unsafe.
Volvo is no longer a car manufacturer that can say it produces safe cars, as this is simply not the case.

Patrick

[detgnome]

Hello all, newly registered to coincide with what I feel is a slowly failing ETM. I see from another thread that someone has been told by Volvo that if they replace the ETM, they will only ever have to pay for one, regardless of whether it is within the one year warranty period or not. Does anyone else have any knowledge of this? (I would quote the post, but I don't know how to quote from other threads!)

[V70driver]

Hi Ollie,
Hmm this all sounds very interesting. Do you know how long an ETM is supposed to last for? One thread mentions driving on borrowed time with 117,000 on the original ETM. I have 10 months warranty left on my vehicle which has only completed 66,000, I take it I should be safe or can it fail at any time/mileage?
Yours nervously
V70 driver


For all of you with 1999 to 2001 Volvo 70's who (like me) have suffered ETS lights coming on, and expensive (£800+) Electronic throttle module failures, it would appear that Volvo North America has finally admitted to this being an initial design problem, and has extended the warrenty on the ETM to 10 years / 200,000 miles.

(http://www.vexedvolvo.com for all the details).

This obviously comes as no consolation to anyone in the UK who has already forked out big money for a replacement unit, and then discovers (as I have found) that the replacement unit can fail within 10,000 miles.

Short of opening a can of worms here, since I'm waiting for an official response from Volvo UK on this one, I'd like to gather as much information from users on this forum of their own experiences with respect to this problem, so I can hand a complete file to the relevant parties and consumer organisations, in the hope that we can achieve a similar outcome here.

Ollie

C70 T(rouble)5
940 2.3LPT

[Doctor Who ?]

I've just spent ***** s reading this Thread (from the beginning last December ?) MY FLABBER HAS NEVER BEEN SO GHASTED:cyclops:

[detgnome]

Below is the text of an email from Veronica Knight of Volvo customer care, responding to a query regarding their policy on ETM failures. It would seem that Volvo UK are still persisting with their hard line on this issue


Thank you for your e-mail below. The unit does not meet emission laws
in the USA and therefore under their laws they have offered an extended
warranty on the part. The part meets our emission laws and we have no
intention at the moment to launch any similar action here in the UK.
Should we do so you would be informed.

If you are experiencing difficulties with your car, whatever they may
be, we would always recommend that you take your car to your local Volvo
Authorised dealership for investigation, diagnosis and repair. Any
accident arising after you have noticed a problem and not had repairs
carried out would be your responsibility. Your local Volvo Authorised
dealer can diagnose if the symptoms are related to the ETS. It is
possible that other issues may exhibit similar characteristics but in
any event the car should be taken to an Authorised Volvo dealer or
repair centre to ensure correct diagnosis.

Volvo do not consider the issue to be safety related and like many other
manufacturers, will only use 'limp mode' under very specific conditions
to prevent damage to the car and more importantly to allow the driver to
stay in control of their vehicle but with reduced acceleration and top
speed. Limp mode is designed so that the car does not come to a sudden
halt and can still be driven to a position of safety. (There are varying
levels of limp, depending on driving style some drivers will notice
little difference, whilst others may detect a slight performance
reduction. Only in certain scenarios is Mechanical Limp Mode activated
which restricts the speed of the car.)

As your car is one of those that may be potentially affected by the
issue raised on Watchdog in February 2006 Volvo Car UK Limited would
like to arrange for your car to be upgraded with new software to improve
the performance of the ETS. The new software is going to improve the
operation of the ETS, however, if the ETM is faulty it will not cure it
as this is an electrical component and as with any component it may
fail. Your dealer is best placed to determine what is going to be
necessary to repair your car once they have had an opportunity to
inspect it.

We are in the process of rolling out the updated software and your
dealer will be able to tell you whether it is currently available for
your car or not. If not we will be in contact nearer the time to arrange
a convenient time for the software to be installed free of charge. At
the same time as the software upgrade we will take the opportunity to
clean the throttle body and check the engine crankcase ventilation
system of your Volvo. All of the this work will be carried out free of
charge by your Volvo dealer.

Experience to date shows that some cars submitted for this work have
been suffering from other faults or failures within the engine
management system. It is therefore important that your Volvo Dealer
checks your car for any Diagnostic Codes prior to commencing work for
the software upgrade. Any such additional work would not be covered by
our goodwill gesture.

As with all components the ETS can be subject to failure. As the ETS is
not subject to a recall in the UK we would view any failures on a
goodwill basis dependent age, mileage, denied usage and loyalty to the
dealership network as demonstrated by a full Volvo dealership serving
history. If the diagnosis is that there is a problem with the ETS (it
is possible that other issues may exhibit similar characteristics) there
are several measures that the dealer can perform to resolve the issue
they can clean & refit the ETM; they can replace it with a new one;
apply the ETS software upgrade when it becomes available.

Your dealer will be able to contact us to discuss your case at which
time we will be better able to determine whether we have a
responsibility to assist with any costs involved and if so, to what
degree.

Veronica Knight
Customer Relations Consultant

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,

Interesting.
Who says it is an emissions issue?
On what basis?
How does a software upgrade fix, what the americans consider, a hardware issue?

I would love for Veronica Knight to explain these...

Des. . . ;)

[Oli]

CTC,

A government agency in California responsible for air quality, initiated the investigation of the ETM problem in the US, and whilst only responsible for California, they negotiated/enforced a 10 year/200k miles extended warranty on the unit, on the grounds that the emissions from a car with a faulty ETM would be unacceptably low, which was extended to the whole country.

Since then though, the National Highways Agency in the US has launched an investigation into the issue, taking into account the safety concerns raised by many owners. Last I heard, they had promoted the initial investigation into a full blown study, which seems to mean that they believe there is a case to answer. Can't remember the terminology though. I'll try and check up on where they're at with that.

I believe the problem is caused by the bushes wearing out or the copper contacts wearing out in the ETM, causing faulty readings for the location of the throttle by the ETM software, hence all the erratic revs, etc. I expect the new software averages info over a longer period so that it will smooth out glitches in the info and avoid confusing the ETM software. Something like that anyway. So yes you're right. The software can not fix a hardware problem, hardware failure being the root cause of the issue.

In Ms Knights post, she claims that all components can fail. That's not correct. There are countless millions of components about (not just in cars) that because they were designed and built correctly, will never fail whilst operating within conditions they were designed for. Had the ETM been correctly designed, then it wouldn't wear out - would it. In fact, I'd have thought designing a throttle system along the same lines as that used in a handheld Scalextric controller, was naive to say the least, and that I bet that type of design is no longer used - by anybody!

If they recognise this part can fail, of which the "goodwill gesture" is a clear recognition of the unacceptable failure rate, then why not at least sell the replacement (same design, same inherent problem, same risk, etc) part at a sensible price, rather than £500+.

No mention of the lifetime warranty if you do replace, as suggested in another thread started on Monday. That would also be a major step forward.

However, a proper recall and free replacement with a new design is really the only acceptable solution.

Shame that VOSA didn't do more to help, despite the lobbying from various forum members. Can't really believe that any well educated person would be duped in to believing a software update would fix a hardware problem, but they do seem to have been.

Lastly, I paid for my software upgrade (albeit only 50 pence, but it's the principle at steak here), and cleaning the crankcase ventilation was part of the service anyway, for which I paid full price (less 10% VOC discount). I've no idea whether the throttle body was cleaned. Will be trying to find out. And yes, withing a 1000 miles of the upgrade, I've experienced erratic revving whilst driving and at idle. It's even stalled on my wife once too.

So CTC, the US warranty is attributed to emissions. But that was just the way the govt. body forced a solution.

Long thread, sorry.

Oli

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,

As you mentioned Oli the other study is a more practical one for the purposes od failure. It is not linked to this "emissions" failure, which you could consider as not being a failure per sea...
However, a proper recall and free replacement with a new design is really the only acceptable solution.
I think a re-design of the unit for those affected vehicles lies at the heart of the solution.

Doesn't even have to be Volvo or fud (their parent) to do this as I would assume that there are a number of 3rd party companies that do research/development into such products...

However, the way that UK customers have been treated and continue to be treated over this issue is farcicle to say the least..
I would thing that we deserve better. and some official body needs to get this in hand and take Volvo by the scruff of the neck and shake them about a bit. Even if only to get some positive action.

Des. . . ;)

[V70driver]

Hi All,
I have just spoken to my local Volvo dealer regarding the situation of the ETM and was advised that what I read on the VOC forum was "scaremongering tosh". The ETM was like any part of a man made piece of machinery, liable to failure. That is what I was told this morning. I have since spoken to Volvo Customer Care and they have advised me that Volvo UK will be writing to me, to invite me to bring my car to a registered dealer for an upgrade on my ETM software FREE OF CHARGE
Will keep you all informed.
V70 driver:huepfen024:


Hi,

As you mentioned Oli the other study is a more practical one for the purposes od failure. It is not linked to this "emissions" failure, which you could consider as not being a failure per sea...

I think a re-design of the unit for those affected vehicles lies at the heart of the solution.

Doesn't even have to be Volvo or fud (their parent) to do this as I would assume that there are a number of 3rd party companies that do research/development into such products...

However, the way that UK customers have been treated and continue to be treated over this issue is farcicle to say the least..
I would thing that we deserve better. and some official body needs to get this in hand and take Volvo by the scruff of the neck and shake them about a bit. Even if only to get some positive action.

Des. . . ;)

[savanaman]

Hi All

I just bougt a 2000 V70 and noticed the ETS light and engine management light were on. The used car dealer said he would fix this before me collecting. Now after reading all this I'm a bit skeptical.

Is it possible for the dealer to just get the lights reset or switched off before I collect?

Is it always the case that it's the throttle control that is broken or can the ETS light mean minor things as well?

any thoughts or experiences?

Thank you

[detgnome]

The codes from the on-board computer need to be downloaded from the car and these will give a clue as to what the problem might be. Be aware that non-Volvo dealers may not be able to interpret the codes as they are 'proprietary'. My local dealer charged £40 for 1/2 an hours work to milk the computer, but were unable to get any useful information as the previous (non volvo) garage had wiped all the codes. I'm not standing up for main dealers and their extortionate rates, but sometimes it's worth biting the bullet.

[insider]

This issue has bugged me for some time.

I've spoken to 2 Main Volvo dealers. 1 spent some time digging, but couldn't find any update and said they were still waiting :mumbles:

The last one was this last week, I was also told that I was talking "bo**ocks" :angry2: that the problem didn't exist with uk cars, only american cars. That there was no "update" never will be and there is no issue.

Their attitude miffed me, so I rang Volvo UK this morning, and was told immediately that there is an upgrade and that the "work" that is done is a clean of the ETM/Throttle Body/PCV system? and that the new software upgrade is also performed. It was pointed out as well that the upgrade IS NOT a cure for the issue and that it is purely a precautionary fix which may help.

The work should be done FREE OF CHARGE and he just couldn't understand why the dealers have no knowledge (allegedly) of the issue and why they'd sent me away with a pack of lies. He was going to ring them and get back to me, however I haven't yet heard anything from him, but he was very very helpful.

He had also pointed out that if the part failed then they would offer a "discount", although he didn't quite catch (i think) my comment that the part clearly was not "fit for purpose" and when (rather than if) it fails then I would have no hesitation in issuing a county court summons against Volvo for the repair costs, backed up by the research from Don and the relevant Consumer Protection acts. Needless to say, he was still very helpful.

I'm just sick of the UK dealer network treating people like s**t to be honest. My local dealer appears to take an instant dislike to anyone who a) didn't buy their car off volvo/them b) who doesn't have their vehicle serviced by them.

All I can say is I've asked for it to be booked into another dealers, and won't use the local one ever again if I can avoid it.

Oh, and if you are interested It was Harrats Volvo in Bradford. I wonder if V70drivers dealer was the same one :speechless-smiley-0

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,

Welcome to the forums insider.. Hope you find some helpful stuff here for you...
This issue has bugged me for some time.
You're not the only one..

Their attitude miffed me, so I rang Volvo UK this morning, and was told immediately that there is an upgrade and that the "work" that is done is a clean of the ETM/Throttle Body/PCV system? and that the new software upgrade is also performed. It was pointed out as well that the upgrade IS NOT a cure for the issue and that it is purely a precautionary fix which may help.
They would say that.. The official line.

The work should be done FREE OF CHARGE and he just couldn't understand why the dealers have no knowledge (allegedly) of the issue and why they'd sent me away with a pack of lies. He was going to ring them and get back to me, however I haven't yet heard anything from him, but he was very very helpful.

He had also pointed out that if the part failed then they would offer a "discount", although he didn't quite catch (i think) my comment that the part clearly was not "fit for purpose" and when (rather than if) it fails then I would have no hesitation in issuing a county court summons against Volvo for the repair costs, backed up by the research from Don and the relevant Consumer Protection acts. Needless to say, he was still very helpful.
Someone will trip them up on this, and hopefully soon. One of the consumer groups should sponsor an action against Volvo UK and take it all the way.

I'm just sick of the UK dealer network treating people like s**t to be honest. My local dealer appears to take an instant dislike to anyone who a) didn't buy their car off volvo/them b) who doesn't have their vehicle serviced by them.
It may be because of the support they themselves get from Volvo UK.
It may also be that Volvo UK ar paying them a very poor rate to compensate them for this.

Des. . . ;)

[James23]

have been pointed towards this thread from a thread i started where my (november)1999 v70 t5 has a flucutating idle.
does this mean then that my ETM is on its way out? are volvo doing the clean up and update for free?
if not i think ill be selling this car as ive spent enough on it already and cannot afford a £700 repair bill!.
thanks guys
edit:
i have had the car 2 weeks and it has 145 thousand miles on the clock

[V70driver]

Hi Insider,
Sorry for delay in reading / replying to your thread regarding the ETM. No my local dealer is the oposite end of the country to you, in Dorset. As per my thread, Page Volvo (now Kings Volvo) were not interested and told me not believe all that I read on this forum. But David at Volvo UK Customer Care is supposed to be writing to me to invite me to take my car to my local dealer for this upgrade. That said, I have just come back from a week in Lincolnshire and nothing on the door mat as yet. This was, incidentally, my first long distance drive with the car since I bought it. Incredibly comfy, cruise control was brilliant and gave my right foot a break. I recorded an average of 37 mpg. The best was 43 mpg. Very good for this car.
Will keep all informed re ETM and upgrade etc.
V70 driver


This issue has bugged me for some time.

I've spoken to 2 Main Volvo dealers. 1 spent some time digging, but couldn't find any update and said they were still waiting :mumbles:

The last one was this last week, I was also told that I was talking "bo**ocks" :angry2: that the problem didn't exist with uk cars, only american cars. That there was no "update" never will be and there is no issue.

Their attitude miffed me, so I rang Volvo UK this morning, and was told immediately that there is an upgrade and that the "work" that is done is a clean of the ETM/Throttle Body/PCV system? and that the new software upgrade is also performed. It was pointed out as well that the upgrade IS NOT a cure for the issue and that it is purely a precautionary fix which may help.

The work should be done FREE OF CHARGE and he just couldn't understand why the dealers have no knowledge (allegedly) of the issue and why they'd sent me away with a pack of lies. He was going to ring them and get back to me, however I haven't yet heard anything from him, but he was very very helpful.

He had also pointed out that if the part failed then they would offer a "discount", although he didn't quite catch (i think) my comment that the part clearly was not "fit for purpose" and when (rather than if) it fails then I would have no hesitation in issuing a county court summons against Volvo for the repair costs, backed up by the research from Don and the relevant Consumer Protection acts. Needless to say, he was still very helpful.

I'm just sick of the UK dealer network treating people like s**t to be honest. My local dealer appears to take an instant dislike to anyone who a) didn't buy their car off volvo/them b) who doesn't have their vehicle serviced by them.

All I can say is I've asked for it to be booked into another dealers, and won't use the local one ever again if I can avoid it.

Oh, and if you are interested It was Harrats Volvo in Bradford. I wonder if V70drivers dealer was the same one :speechless-smiley-0

[roadhog]

Hello all, I've been watching this thread with interest for a while,before I found it I thought I was the only one with this problem!
I bought my '99 reg V70 T5 in 2001 with 30k miles, I had numerous engine warning light incidents, each meaning a trip to my local stealer and most bills were horrendous! I had (in no particular order) a new throttle position sensor, clutch position sensor, maf, map, coil pack and in 2003 a new ETM! No warning, the car just stopped working.
Sometime after that the idle started to fluctuate which at first was a bit annoying. I had the car checked by my local indie and the main dealer for fault codes but nothing. I've put up with it ever since but lately it's got very annoying and it was while researching that I found this thread.
The local Volvo franchise suggested cleaning out the etm to hopefully cure my idle problem but I couldn't see how that would help as it's been doing it for so long. That was before I read all this though. They also qouted quite a large bill.
Here's my first question: Does a clean really make any difference?
My car currently has an etm fitted which has got a yellow sticker, the one they removed back in '03 has a white one. I still have that one. Is there any significance in the colour of the sticker, ie mod state or software required?
Is it possible for me to have the old one cleaned and swap them over or do I need to have it set up?
Which part of the etm needs the clean, just the butterfly or the tracks for the pots?
I contacted the company mentioned a few times in earlier replies as being able to overhaul these units but was told they don't anymore as they were having problems with the software.
Sorry for the long post and the many questions but I would apreciate any help with this.
Cheers, Johannes

[terry_cunnane]

Hello all, I've been watching this thread with interest for a while,before I found it I thought I was the only one with this problem!......

What a catalogue of troubles. I should think every dealership knows of the ETM problem by now but how many ever tell thier customers about the allegations? Surely it influences any trust that a dealer might want to develop?

Terry

[James23]

My car currently has an etm fitted which has got a yellow sticker, the one they removed back in '03 has a white one. I still have that one. Is there any significance in the colour of the sticker, ie mod state or software required?



I think that the original ETM's all come with white stickers and when they are replaced they are put in with yellow stickers. I think this is just a way of knowing whether it has a had a new ETM or not.

[Oli]

I think the yellow sticker is the only difference.

Your dealer should now be able to load updated software, which allows the car to deal with the deteriorating unit more effectively, but it is just a patch. As part of this upgrade (well that's what they call it) the crankcase and etm should be cleaned for free too.

But as you've read, it's a mechanical design fault, and as such needs a replacement.

Somebody once suggested that Volvo use an independent design house to come up with a replacement. Anybody have any suggestions? Perhaps we could do a multibuy and spread the cost between us. If it's a good solution, we may find a few hundred customers.

Oli

[James23]

Your dealer should now be able to load updated software, which allows the car to deal with the deteriorating unit more effectively, but it is just a patch. As part of this upgrade (well that's what they call it) the crankcase and etm should be cleaned for free too.



So we can take our volvo to the main stealer and ask that they do this work and they wont charge us?

With regards to another solution, why did volvo swap from the one they used in the 850? can we not install this as a replacement?
thanks

[Oli]

If you've a local dealer that you've used, then I suggest you call them and ask about booking your car in for the complimentary ETM software upgrade and associated crankcase cleaning etc. See what they say. If a no go, the ring Volvo customer services and ask about how to get the complimentary work carried out, explaining that you've already replaced the unit and are now having problems again.

I suggest you save criticising this option as being a cover up until you've had it done, as I'm sure it will improve things if only for a while.

The ETM is effectively a "fly by wire" module. There is no longer a direct connection between the accelerator peddle and the fuel injected into the engine, as was the case on the 850. However, it does raise the point about what was used in the C70 post 2002 and as to whether that would work.

Anybody know the answer to that?

Oli

[roadhog]

Your dealer should now be able to load updated software, which allows the car to deal with the deteriorating unit more effectively, but it is just a patch. As part of this upgrade (well that's what they call it) the crankcase and etm should be cleaned for free too.

But as you've read, it's a mechanical design fault, and as such needs a replacement.

Oli

Hi again, thanks for the replies so far. When they originally suggested to clean the etm they also 'suggested' I pay for it, I had heard about some sort of software update from my indie but when I mentioned this to the stealer they didn't seem to know anything about it at all? At least that's what they said to me!
I'm back in the country tomorrow, I'll give them a ring and suggest they clean my etm and crankcase. Will keep you posted.
Having read about the software changing the feel of the throttle response, I'm not so sure I want that part of the upgrade though. The way I read it the software seems to change the way the car deals with a fault code, can't see how it would make any difference to worn mechanical components but I'm sure they will tell me all about it tomorrow.
Cheer, Johannes

[bellaoz]

As a new member I have read with interest the previous threads on failed electronic throttle modules as we have suffered the same problems and the replacement unit (one year old) seems to have failed as well. However, we have had various parts replaced in the last two months as the garage appears unable to diagonise the correct fault. We get the car back, supposedly fixed and two days later the same problem occurs - lack of power, sometimes stalling and running rough. It loks like we need a third ETM and many, if not all, the things done to it in the last two months were unecessary...
Volvo are not being sympathetic!
Has anyone heard if there has been any progress with an official response from Volvo UK and is there a list of UK parties who have suffered from this problem yet? We definitely want to be included.
Any comments would be much appreciated as we have a car we can't sell and can't drive at the moment. It is 6 years old and has done 128,000 miles and owned since new with a full service history.

Thanks!

[roadhog]

Hi all, as promised here's an update on my situation.
I called my local Volvo franchise and discussed my problem with the lady at the service desk. She quoted £89 for having my ETM cleaned. I asked her about the software update and after a little research she called me back and said there was NO software update for my '99 model V70 T5! The problem (according to her anyway) only affected vehicles from 2000 onwards! So all you '98 to '00 car owners (me included) must be imagining things! I asked exactly what the ETM clean entailed and was put through to a chap on the shop floor who said they only clean the butterfly part of the valve, they wouldn't touch the electronics of it. I was also told that if I needed more info I should contact Volvo UK.
So I did.
I got to speak to a very helpful guy called David who initially said that there was no software update for my car but they were continually rolling new versions out on a model by model basis. He went away to check the situation and when he called me back he told me that there was an update in the pipeline for my car and that he had added my name to the list of potential users. He said that if/when the update comes out I will be notified by post and that my Volvo dealer will also clean out my ETM free of charge at the time of the update. Let's hope he meant it!
I also asked him what the software update does and was told that while it won't rectify any defects it will change the way the ETM is used and so prolong it's life. Reading back through earlier posts I guess it's the less sensitive thing causing it to hunt less?
So, for now I guess I'll have to kangaroo around a bit longer and keep an eye on the post.
I would suggest that EVERYONE who has this problem contacts Volvo UK and adds their name to the list for the software. When I called them they couldn't find my car on the database by number plate and they had to set up an account manually. I guess without the phone call I would have slipped through the net?
Anyway, sorry for the long post.
Cheers, Johannes

[addyman]

I have a 1999 T5 and had the software update, and as my previous posts my ETM totally failed shortly after.....

Info varies from Dealer to Dealer, some are knowledgable about this and some not...or are denying at at least....

I now have a new shiney etm new software, receipts to prove it and am quite happy at teh moment....

Adrian

[savanaman]

How about we get some prices for the new ETM fitted by those that have done it and where?

If you have had it done please tell us how much it was and where you had it done.


Thanks

[Muscas]

How about we get some prices for the new ETM fitted by those that have done it and where?

If you have had it done please tell us how much it was and where you had it done.


Thanks

£550 inclusive of 10% dealer discount from Lookers Chelmsford, Essex

[roadhog]

£461.50 but that was back in June 2003. The Dealer was Inchcape in Norwich. Haven't had a quote lately, hoping not to need one either.

Cheers, Johannes

[savanaman]

This may have already been covered in which I apologise.

Can we just get a used part from another similiar model? One from a scrappy?

[Muscas]

This may have already been covered in which I apologise.

Can we just get a used part from another similiar model? One from a scrappy?

Yes you can get a used ETM from a scrapper but post installation in your car you will have to take it to a Volvo dealer so they can configure the software to match your car.

So it's not really worth it IMO, all the hastle of removal, having to re-install then having to take the car to your local garage. Plus the second hand unit may be on it's way out.

From what I can gather from having fitted a new ETM we have approximatly 40K miles before it is likely to go wrong again, however there are cases of failure as early as 7K miles after replacement.

Hope this helps

Patrick

[Oli]

Hello Patrick,

Maybe you know the answer to my above question: What was used as the replacement unit in the C70? I think the problem was confined to units pre 2002, but the C70 has only just been replaced. Maybe (fingers crossed here) that unit would be a better replacement option?

Oli

[Muscas]

Hello Patrick,

Maybe you know the answer to my above question: What was used as the replacement unit in the C70? I think the problem was confined to units pre 2002, but the C70 has only just been replaced. Maybe (fingers crossed here) that unit would be a better replacement option?

Oli

Hi Oli,

Good to hear from you, I hope you are well.

I am not sure I fully understand your question.

This ETM defect effected all S70/V70/C70/S80 Classic series and the S60/V70 latest editions, from years early 1999 till early 2003.
With the exception of the C70 Classic, I believe this car still uses the self same poorly designed unit up untill end of production, March 2006.

All other cars from 2003 used a different ETM, i.e. not a Marinelli unit.

Please follow the link below to yet more comments on this topic:

http://www.v70r.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1767

Patrick

[Oli]

Thanks for the link, I'd read those posts before. they include a list from the National Highways Agency of the cars effected and the dates:

VOLVO / 700 2000
VOLVO / 740 2000
VOLVO / 780 1999
VOLVO / 850 1999-2000
VOLVO / 855 2000
VOLVO / C70 1999-2002
VOLVO / C70 CONVERTIBLE 1999-2001
VOLVO / COTTRELL 1999
VOLVO / S40 2000-2001
VOLVO / S60 1999-2002
VOLVO / S70 1999-2000
VOLVO / S80 1999-2001
VOLVO / S90 1999
VOLVO / V40 2000-2001
VOLVO / V70 1999-2002
VOLVO / V70XC 1999-2001
VOLVO / V90 1999
VOLVO / VOLVO 1999-2001
VOLVO / X70 1999
VOLVO / XC70 2001

Not sure that the cars at the top of the list should be included. Anyway, C70 is limited to the same time period as all the other cars (roughly 2001 or 2002 cap). Therefore suggesting that the problem was solved in 2001 and that any C70 made after that date had a different solution/module that does not have this problem. So what's now used as an alternative for the S80/S60/C70/V70N/V40/S40 between 2001 and now or the last redesign, most of which have only happened in the last year of so?

I don't think all the engine types changed in 2001 to allow a move to a completely new solution, so what is used and would it work on the models in the above list that are effected (you and me in other words)?

Should be worth persuing, as there is no account of any problems with ETM from late 2001 onwards, if indeed an ETM is still used.

See what I mean now?

Oli

[Muscas]

Yeah, I catch your drift.

Interesting question you have raised.

I think I spoke to my dealer some time ago about the newer C70's (still Classic shape). Next time I am in there I will have a chat with the R specialist technician.

Patrick

[ollieoxford]

The faulty (read badly inappropriately designed) Italian ETM unit was eventually replacing by a completely different unit. (Any later 70 owner/expert not afflicted please look under their bonnet and please confirm).

I strongly suspect that this also coincided with a change to the engine management system ecu. One of the reasons this is so expensive and complicated for Volvo to fix and why they are so hesitant to do so, is that the new unit would work in a completely different way (not based on resistance - probably optical or opto-magnetic), and hence interfaces to the ecu in a different way. So simply, a new unit would not work unless the engine management system was also changed. And quite simply, the cars are no-longer worth that amount of work since manufacturers would like us to scrap them and replace them every 6 - 8 years.

Volvo (or alternatively a wealthy group of us) would need to commission the manufacture of a new unit based on appropriate technology, (or an interface box for an alternative newer unit) which connects with the old ecu. I've raised this discussion point before, but it would seem that no-one outside of the motor manufacturers really have expertise or the necessary technology. If anyone knows otherwise, or has contacts with the likes or Recardo - please post to this list...

[Oli]

Well let's keep on it until we get a difinitive answer on the newer version of the ETM. From memory (which aint all that great) it's the tracks that wear out in the ETM, so stands to reason we need something conductive but significantly more resistant to wear than copper to be used. Rhodium for example. The unit would have to be modded to allow for the different resistance of the metal, but I expect that's just a software lookup issue.

But that's about the limit of my engineering imagination, for tonight at least. but if something along those lines would work, then a mod/upgrade to an existing ETM may prove possible.

I need to go to the dealer to get some clips for the drain hoses in the engine bay. Now have 2 reasons to go.

Oh and Ollie, how many different ways do people find to spell your name for you? (Ollie and Oli being 2 so start us off)

Oli

[Muscas]

Perhaps BBA reman would be interested in your suggestion.

Seems like they would get plenty of custom.

Patrick

[roadhog]

Hi all, I might have mentioned this before but I contacted bba reman last week and was told they don't do the Volvo/Marelli ETM anymore due to software problems. Shame really as like you say, they would probably pick up a few customers from here. From the way the said it there doesn't seem to be any plans in place to sort their problem either, it was "we don't do them anymore................."
Realistically though, the cost of redesigning this thing would probably be so high that even if we all clubbed together it wouldn't be viable.
Perhaps a better option would be to steal some unsuspecting 850 owners engine and de-mod our cars? :laughing-smiley-008

[savanaman]

We had a couple of prices from volvo so far, I asked stockport volvo their price and was quoted £600.00.

Does anyone know which Volvo garage is the cheapest?

[Mr2volvos]

I have just signed up as a newbie and have read the many threads on the ETM topic. My sympathies to you all! I remain confused however as to specifically which models are/may be at risk. The Watchdog website states:

All of the following models with petrol engines are affected: not just the 1999-2001 V70s and C70s, but the S60, S70, S80, XC70 and the model year 2002 V70 non-turbos and C70s. Also, all S60 and V70 Bi fuel models are affected. Not exactly an isolated problem then.

There have however been questions (unanswered) on some posts asking whether it is the mosel year or year of production that is key. Oli's comprehensive list also includes '03 models but doesn't mention turbo models.

I believe that I am experiencing some of the symptoms described (hesitation/lag and surging) when under hard acceleration. I have a 2002 (first registered in June) V70 2.4T SE.

With 95.5K on the clock, I am heading for an eye watering bill if taken to my local dealership (£750) but am unsure whether to raise the ETM issue (particularly as (according to watchdog)) turbo's are unaffected).

Given the lack of diagnostic expertise in identifying an ETM problem combined with the possibility of other causes of this problem, I am unsure whether to set this hare running.

Can anyone clarify whether my limmo is at risk? If not, then i'm off to my local indy garage. Thanks

[Oli]

Hello Mr2Volvos and welcome to the forums.

Open your bonnet and look at the engine between the radiator and the engine. You may see a box attached with a white lable (Magneto Marelli) or yellow if it's already been replaced. If you can't spot it then have a look through the Vexed volvo website. There are pictures there to show you what to look for.

You're right that the lists don't all match up, but mine was alledgedly provided by Volvo to the US Highways Agency, so should be good. I think it will be based on model year too, which is worst case.

By the way, Turbo engines are most definately effected too.

However, the problem doesn't necessarily manifest itself under hard acceleration, that could be as simple as needing a new fuel filter. This will be replaced as part of a normal service.

Ring Volvo customer services, describe your problem and ask them to book you in at your local dealer for the software upgrade and associated cleaning activites, which are being offered on a complimentary basis. As you will have read, this is just a patch to make sure that in the event of an ETM problem, the car doesn't switch to safe home mode (max speed 40mph) while you're driving along, but when you next start. It also allows the software to better cope with the increasingly variable quality of feedback from the ETM.

I've had the software done, and did have signs of the problem still for the first 1000 miles or so, but since switching to Optimax/V-Power about 10 tanks ago, have not had a hint of a problem (this could just be optimistic cooincidence though).

Hope you don't have a prob. but call Volvo anyway.

ATB

Oli

[Mr2volvos]

Oli,

Many thanks for this.

As I suspected, I appear to have fallen into the 'probably vunerable' catagory and will therfore submit my car for the whole 96k (cambelt change ) service at the dealership (via Customer services)and see how they react to being asked to do something for nothing!

Will let you know of the outcome.

Cheers

[Oli]

Unrelated, but just read a post suggesting that having the water pump changed at the same time as having the camblet changed (think you'r a bit late doing that BTW) is very sensible. You know, something that really should be on the service schedule, but isn't. I've no idea of the extra cost, but no harm in asking.

And unless you've a regular dealer that knows you, then best to get in touch with Volvo, tell them you're booked in for the 90k service and ask if they'll contact the dealer to get them to do the extra work at the same time for free.

Cheers then

Oli

[smith428]

Hi everybody, would just like some advice on a letter I have just received from volvo uk inviting me down to the dealership for a software upgrade, and to clean the throttle body and check the engine cranckcase ventilation(all for free). At this moment in time I don't seem to be having any problems with this unit. The only time the ETS light seems to come on is if I fill the car right up with fuel on a hot day. But it has no effects on performance.
They are also advising I have the car checked for diagnostic codes prior to commencing work.
Is it worth having this work done, or best to leave it.
Sorry its a '99 V70 2.5T with 94000 miles.

Many thanks

[s elster]

Hi I have a 1999 V70 xt that has done 39000 mls the the orange light has appeared, the Dealer who has seviced the car upgraded the software etc after I informed him I had read various tit bits on the web ( I am a new member)prior to this he was rather unhelpful I started the car the light re-appeared, I got out spoke to them, they said as we all no I need a new module, he then booked the car in for Wed 27th sept, ! was given no warnings about driving the car till then, which when I then told him I had studied the class action web sites and the dangers of driving with this problem he clammed up, I intend to have the work carried out then sue through the County Court, I would therefore like any information that all victims of this problem may feel germain.Thank you

[s elster]

Hi I forgot to add that Myron Levin of the Los Angeles Times wrote an interesting article www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0505/06/1auto-170127.htm also leading lawyers in the action are Fazio & Micheletti of San Mateo California I found them by searching "Volvo Class action Lawsuit", happy reading, NB I would add that up until this problem, I found as a 2nd car it was verygood, I also received good service from my dealer until now, he was taken over approx 1 year ago and I have noticed a change in attitude

[s elster]

Here is the web site for the us lawyers you can download the class action details www.fazmiclaw.com/Volvo.html also does anyone have any iformation on the report ofnov 16th 2005 that claims that volvo in the us has extended the warranty for this problem www.carbuyersnotebook.com/2005/11/volvo_extends_w.htm regards

[roadhog]

Personally I'm not really interested in any legal action, I'll settle for getting my car to run OK. It's a design flaw but - I think this may have been mentioned before - most cars have one or two of them.
Perhaps if there was a bit less of the blame/claim culture we might have a chance to get manufacturers to admit they got it wrong.
Reading between the lines, I take it you've not had too much of a problem with this issue before, has your ETM been confirmed as being the cause of your warning light? It seems to me a trifle early to be talking legal proceedings, but perhaps I'm behind the times.....?

[chow]

gad zooks! i didnt know this awful piece of kit is made by maralli! that explains a lot, there a bloody awful company most italians cars are afflicted with there garbage electrical equipment, what in gods name was volvo thinking of getting involved with them? surely bosch would have been the wisest choice

[s elster]

Hi roadhog it was the dealer who advise me I need to spend £650 to fix the problem, so I trust he recognised the simptoms, as to the blame/ claim culture it would appear that there is enough evidence of blame,this then if I care to test its validity in a court of law is my right because the court will evaluate the evidence and make a judgement, as to you being behind or indeed infront of the times your comment is rather subjective, if you require an answer I would look to that other BBC programe Dr Who regards S Elster

[s elster]

Hi I have just had another thought? VOC has done some pieces on Police use of V70s perhaps they could find out if they have had any problems with ETM and if Volvo provides the same outstanding level of customer care, for its large fleet users as for us mortals, the mind boggles at the thought of a Police car going into crawler mode on its way to an incident, if not I believe under the freedom of information act you may ask your force for the relevant stats, by the way for roadhog the time lord there is a potential here to damage more than our wallets, Im sure he is a very capable driver, I worry about the person who may not be as capable who finds themselves on a winters night going over the tops on the M62 having sudden power loss in the overtaking lane at 70mph scary

[roadhog]

Mr Elster, I salute your public spirit and wish you success with your upcoming court case. Be sure to let us all know when you've won!
Now where did I put that sonic screwdriver........
Kind Regards Roadhog

[s elster]

Thank you for your encouragement Roadhog, you realy dont want me to suggest were you start your search for your Sonic equipment do you,regards S Elster

[roadhog]

:sprachlos020:

[s elster]

update, I spoke to Volvo Uk, they towed the party line, and offered me 20% off the bill, because the car had done under 40000 mls, I refused and told them that I intended to pursue them through the small claims court and that I had opened a dialogue with Trading Standards. Today the dealer who after the software upgrade and the cleaning of various part on Friday, and the warning light returning on his forecourt, who told me I need a new ETM, has just called me to say that there is nothing wrong with the car, they cannot explain why the light came back on, why I had problems with starting,why the idleing was lumpy, why I had on 2 occasions lost power etc ect, I leave you to draw your own conclusions, maybe Roadhog retrieved his Sonic gadject from were ever it was lodged and used his Timelord powers or maybe not. I will keep you updated of my actions in the future ( I dont want to raise the next and rather obvious pun) S Elster

[s elster]

update I spoke to soon! The car has just been returned to me with the dealer assurance it is fine. started the car you guessed it surged and the light came on they are taking it in on Monday I will keep you posted S Elster, PS Sonic screwdriver needed

[roadhog]

Sorry, still haven't found it yet, hope they get your car sorted anyway.
Regards Roadhog

[Zota]

I have had this failure. I took my car to a company that has been servicing Volvos for many years, but they are not an "approved" service dealer.
They had the software to tell me what was wrong but they had not been able to get the software codes to set up either a new replaced unit or reset the module alarm.
He told me it was the ETM so that all checks out with what I read here.
I have only just subscribed to this site so it has paid off handsomely.
Congratulations to you all.

I am told it will cost me about $2000 to replace the unit. Thats about L800 !
So now I am going to chase up Volvo Australia.

[Zota]

Additional to my previous post;
I was told that the fault code read out was the ETM and something to do with oxygen reading. I do not have the ETS light on except it ocassionally comes on but goes out on a restart. It sometimes takes a while to go out when first started, about 10 seconds. I now presume that the ETM may only fail intermittantly.
I do have the light for the Engine Electronic System on permanently.
Disconnecting the battery has it off for about five minutes after the car is restarted. .
Do those with the ETM problem have the ETS light on all the time ?

Since I have learned from this list that there are carbon potentiometers involved I am horrified. It is the last application anyone would use carbon pots for. I have not looked at mine but it might be possible to clean the pots.
Carbon pots are notorious for getting noisy. Have you ever turned the volume up and down on a radio and got lots of noise ?
Thats what is going on with your car.
I suspect from what I have read that eeproms hold some code or constants.
Has anyone read them out ? eeprom = electrically erasable read only memory.
I would love to get hold of a duff one and see if I can get the data out.

Barry

[Zota]

Here's my first question: Does a clean really make any difference?
My car currently has an etm fitted which has got a yellow sticker, the one they removed back in '03 has a white one. I still have that one. Is there any significance in the colour of the sticker, ie mod state or software required?
Is it possible for me to have the old one cleaned and swap them over or do I need to have it set up?
Which part of the etm needs the clean, just the butterfly or the tracks for the pots?
I
Cheers, Johannes

I have not seen the potentiometer yet, but for carbon pots in general, yes they can be cleaned, carefully. There are sprays available in electronic shops that are suitable. Have a close look at the tracks marks on the carbon. If they are not smooth with no broken up surface then it will probably work OK.
Try to clean the wiper contacts. Don't bend them up to get under them.
Soak some white paper in the cleaning solution and slip it under the contacts, and then move the contacts accross the paper.
The fact that they have two pots in parralell is an admission that carbon pots are not suitable for this application.

Good luck Barry

[Zota]

Does anyone know what is inside the pedal shaft assembly ?
It has to be either a pot or a photo-optic position readout.
A capacitive device similar to the tuning capacitor used in valve radios.

If it is a potentiometer, has it given problems ?
The symptoms would be the same as the ETM.

Barry

[Muscas]

Does anyone know what is inside the pedal shaft assembly ?
It has to be either a pot or a photo-optic position readout.
A capacitive device similar to the tuning capacitor used in valve radios.

If it is a potentiometer, has it given problems ?
The symptoms would be the same as the ETM.

Barry

Hi Barry,

Check out the following link, figure 5

http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/tech_info.html

Hope this helps.

Patrick

[Oli]

Hey Patrick (and Anybody with a post 2002 C70)

Hope you're well.

The Vexed site lists the cars effected, with the C70 being listed until 2002MY. However, the classic shape C70 carried on being sold until quite recently. You wouldn't happen to know what was used instead of the MM ETM module would you? Seems to me that this could be an option.

Cheers

Oli

[Muscas]

Hey Patrick (and Anybody with a post 2002 C70)

Hope you're well.

The Vexed site lists the cars effected, with the C70 being listed until 2002MY. However, the classic shape C70 carried on being sold until quite recently. You wouldn't happen to know what was used instead of the MM ETM module would you? Seems to me that this could be an option.

Cheers

Oli

Hi Oli,

Good to hear from you, I hope you are well.

Umm, This is something we spoke of a couple of weeks ago. I was going to ask in my local Volvo garage, I will be in there shortly, so will ask then.

But it is a good suggestion of yours, may even solve all our long term problems.

Patrick

[timh30]

I have been paying a close eye on this thread as I have an affected vehicle - although I was led to believe mine had been replaced recently.

Shortly after buying my car 3 months ago I contacted the local Volvo dealership and they informed me it had been replaced last December - which was quite a relief as it mean't I shouldn't experience the issues for quite a while (I didnt get this in writing though - only verbally).

The other day however I was reading up on the Don Wilson site and noted that replaced units should have a yellow sticker, upon checking mine in more detail I saw it still had the original white sticker!!! (Lying b*st*rds).

Having now contacted them again, they report it was only cleaned last December and a s/w update applied - which according to them will fix all the issues. I explained that it is fundamentally a h/w issue, akin to a crackly volume control and WILL inevitably happen - but this seemed to fall on deaf ears.

I'm not suffering any symptoms at the moment (and using cruise control as much as possible to reduce wear) - but with 86k miles on the clock, I guess I'm living on borrowed time.

As a bit of a DIY'er - what are peoples thoughts on a diy repair, such as using a resistive carbon paint to repair the tracks ?

I know that a new unit has to be reprogrammed into the vehicle, but if the actual unit cost is much lower than the £600 being quoted, I guess it may also be possible to just move the electronics over to the new unit and avoid a reprogramming charge - although one would have to be brave to perform this.

Does anyone else have any ideas about DIY solutions?

[Oli]

Not sure about DIY solutions, but am fairly sure that the new software upgrade was not available last year. Only released during Q2 this year I think. Something else to check with your dealer then.

One would have thought that a repair would be possible, but apparently a Kent firm that was offering this service has now given up due to too many problems.

Glad to hear that you're joining the fight on this and that for now you've no symptoms.

Oli

[Oli]

Hi Oli,

Good to hear from you, I hope you are well.

Umm, This is something we spoke of a couple of weeks ago. I was going to ask in my local Volvo garage, I will be in there shortly, so will ask then.

But it is a good suggestion of yours, may even solve all our long term problems.

Patrick

Doing fine thanks.

You're right, and I must do the same. Need to call the dealer anyway as I'm using up oil. 2 notches on the dipstick since and I'm only half way through the service period.

Hope we can compare answers soon. Anybody with a post 2002 C70, please chip in.

Oli

[timh30]

yes had seen the company who will repair the ETM:

http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?content=volvo_post_1999_marelli_elect ronic_throttle_system

I have not contacted them yet, but had read somewhere they were no longer doing this repair.

[Oli]

yes had seen the company who will repair the ETM:

http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?content=volvo_post_1999_marelli_elect ronic_throttle_system

I have not contacted them yet, but had read somewhere they were no longer doing this repair.


That's the company, yes. In Kent too. No harm in giving them a call to double check I suppose, and if they're no longer doing it, then they may be happy to tell you what it was that they used to do.

Oli

[timh30]

I've just called BBA Reman in Gillingham, and they tell me that they aren't currently providing a repair service (due to issues with the old fix), however they are currently looking for a better solution - which will then be marketed. No idea on timescales was given, but it sounded like they are at least on the case.

I asked how much a repaired item was previously as a ball-park figure and was told £250, which is a damn site more pallatable than Volvo's £600.

[s elster]

update, The car was taken back to the dealer, on Monday, they now say it was not an Etm fault that it was something to do with an oxygen intake they replaced it at a cost of £260 funny that it had all the symptoms of an Etm fault, that on the first visit when they updated the software ect and the light came on in the forecourt they told me it needed an Etm. Trading Standards said that we dont have the same type of consumer rights that the U S A has so they cannot investigate this etm problem or though he did say that the laws here should be changed. sofar the light has not reappeared S Elster

[Zota]

Hi Barry,

Check out the following link, figure 5

http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/tech_info.html

Hope this helps.

Patrick

Sorry Patrick the link you gave me is for the ETM unit.
The pedal shaft transducer is on the shaft of the pedal itself.
My comment related to the possibility of it being a carbon potentiometer similar to what is in the ETM.

Barry

[Zota]

I've just called BBA Reman in Gillingham, and they tell me that they aren't currently providing a repair service (due to issues with the old fix), however they are currently looking for a better solution - which will then be marketed. No idea on timescales was given, but it sounded like they are at least on the case.

I asked how much a repaired item was previously as a ball-park figure and was told £250, which is a damn site more pallatable than Volvo's £600.

I wouldn't hold my breath on this. There is no way they can recondition or easily modify the unit without replacing the carbon track.
That would be a non-trivial manufacturing project.
That would get them back to square one which is not where we want to be.
We need to get to square three as any real fix must not end up with a carbon potentiometer. To do it any other way will mean a total redesign and electronics to change the output from the new device to be the same as the old devices output.
The only reason I can see that they did not use a shaft encoder which would have given them a digital output is shear incompitance.

The problem is they just don't have a clue.
Nobody in the electronics industry would have used a carbon potentiometer in an application like this.
If I can't get a new unit for my car I will sell it.
Reconditioned units will not have had the pots changed. They just clean them.

Does anyone know what is used in later models ?

Barry

[timh30]

I agree that using carbon track pots in this application is just plain stupid, however short of a redesign currently we'll have to live with a replacement/reparied unit (or sell the vehicle). If I can get another 90k miles for £250, then I'd be happy with that.

It a shame that our legal system allows Volvo to get away with this, but this is rip-off Britain, so shouldn't really come as a surprise.

Personally when mine fails I will probably open up the unit and clean the pots in the first instance. I'm not sure if 'service' parts can be obtained from Magneti Marelli since the carbon track pieces cant really be more than a few quid to manufacture.

Maybe if we can get hold of a failed unit, we could get a working group together to see if a redesign could be made. From what I see these pots provide voltage positioning feedback for the server motor via the 'fingers' being attached to the shaft of the throttle. It may therefore be possible to fit alternative pots of better quality (mil spec) to provide this reference voltage.

So does anyone have a failed unit in their possession - or could someone ask for their failed unit back ?

[timh30]

A hall effect potentiometer looks like a good candidate - non contacting etc:

http://www.potentiometers.com/HRS100.cfm?session_num=2006100408250469

Would need to check out voltages etc, but with a minimum 50 million cycle lifespan - it would certainly be a better candidate than the carbon pot volvo specified!

Having just checked the PDF Datasheet, they list one of its possible applications as throttle position sensor !!!

[Oli]

This would be better too (a handheld Scalextric sport controller) at only £11 each:

Oli

[Oli]

Maybe if we can get hold of a failed unit.....

Patrick, I think you replaced yours yourself, have you the old one still in the shed?

Oli

[Muscas]

Patrick, I think you replaced yours yourself, have you the old one still in the shed?

Oli

Hi Oli !!

Like anything in my home that stands still to long I flogged it on e-bay some weeks ago.

Patrick

[Muscas]

Here is a link to the class action complaint in California which may be of interest www.fazmiclaw.com/VolvoSAC.pdf

Patrick

[Zota]

Hello TIMH30,
The real difficulty in replacing the pots is that they are curved around the body of the ETM. The only mod that I see possible is to extend the shaft of the butterfly valve outside of the ETM and attach a suitable pot.
I do not know the Hall effect pots, but do they have a shaft able to rotate through 90 degrees ?

If all of the above is possible then it would work, but would be messy.
If the tracks are worn out then no amount of cleaning will help, just make the problem worse.
Unless you can find a way to deposit carbon onto the tracks to fill in the holes the only alternative is to sell the car or pay for another new ETM.
AS the original maker is out of the business the question then is do the dealers have new units or reconditioned units ?
If the answer is new then do that, as the car will be unsaleable otherwise.
If they only have recconditioned units they have either had new carbon deposited on the tracks or they are lying.
Let them keep trying "reconditioned" units until they strike one that will work well enough to sell the car.

Grim isn't it ?

[Oli]

It occurred to me yesterday while flicking through the manual, that the problem with the ETS was anticipated at the design stage by Volvo because they've included a warning light specifically for its failure! ETS Warning.

This is surely evidence of a guilty design and backs up the claim (on Vexed I think) that Volvo knew the unit/design was unacceptable in 1998 before fitting it to any of their cars, but went ahead anyway and included a simple warning light to lower their guilt.

Will be interesting to hear how the class action gets along.

Oli

[timh30]

From what I see of the setup, yes you'd fix the back of a conventional style pot to the housing and rotate the pot shaft from the throttle shaft. The key point with the hall effect sensor are they only give out 0-5 v range, so would need to identify what voltage ranges are output from the current pot setup.


Hello TIMH30,
The real difficulty in replacing the pots is that they are curved around the body of the ETM. The only mod that I see possible is to extend the shaft of the butterfly valve outside of the ETM and attach a suitable pot.
I do not know the Hall effect pots, but do they have a shaft able to rotate through 90 degrees ?

If all of the above is possible then it would work, but would be messy.
If the tracks are worn out then no amount of cleaning will help, just make the problem worse.
Unless you can find a way to deposit carbon onto the tracks to fill in the holes the only alternative is to sell the car or pay for another new ETM.
AS the original maker is out of the business the question then is do the dealers have new units or reconditioned units ?
If the answer is new then do that, as the car will be unsaleable otherwise.
If they only have recconditioned units they have either had new carbon deposited on the tracks or they are lying.
Let them keep trying "reconditioned" units until they strike one that will work well enough to sell the car.

Grim isn't it ?

[windycar]

Just registered with this site after owning volvos for the past decade or so. Pretty fed up with my c70 T5 at the moment as the ets light and the abs light have been coming on intermittently lately. It's only covered 78k miles and been my pride and joy. I love the car, but it could spell the end of a loving relationship I have had with volvo. What were they thinking when they changed from a tried and tested throttle system to a piece of electronic junk? It just gets me mad.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Wardair]

I am also new to the forum.

My C70-T5 ETM recently failed giving my wife a big scare. After reading the Watchdog article I called Volvo Car UK who were very evasive and suggested a 10% good will contribution may be available subject to dealer investigation.

The local Dealer (who have serviced car from new) have investigated and confirmed a new ETM is needed.

I have viewed the US class action papers (which resulted in the US extended warranty on the ETM) and wonder if anyone has had a UK lawyer look at the papers? Is there no way that a 'claims are us' company could pick this up?

As I need the car I will be getting it repaired but looking to fight Volvo Car UK for some money back. Is there any benefit in keeping the failed unit?

[Zota]

To Oil; The fact that they provided two parallel potentiometers is proof that there was some uncertainty about the reliability of the pots.

To TMH30; Well if the signal is above 5 volt then an opamp would be needed to condition the signal to give the corret range.

As I am looking at getting rid of my car I have been enquiring about other makes of car. The ETMs in Toyota, Honda and Mazda look to be of similar construction but not identical. However the general shape suggests that they could use carbon pots in a similar manner.

I have so far been unable to get a straight answer from them. I emailed them to their HQs but only one answer so far from Toyota and they said to see their dealers. I'll bet quids that their technical people in the dealers won't have a clue as what is inside, let alone what a carbon potentiometer is.

Barry

[Muscas]

I'll bet quids that their technical people in the dealers won't have a clue as what is inside, let alone what a carbon potentiometer is.

Barry

They hardly need to, Toyota's and alike are so reliable.

[Darcy]

I have registered with Volvo Community today because I read your note and this past week the ETS warning on my 1999 V70 has begun to intermittently light.

Volvo is performing a diagnostic on it tomorrow morning (£50).

But it sounds from the notes on this forum I am suffering from a well known fault.

I will update on the prognosis Volvo give me next week.

Regards.

Ed.

[Wardair]

Darcy,

Remember that software upgarde is free (see BBC watchdog website http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/watchdog/reports/transport/transport_20060214.shtml )

Ring Volvo UK Customer Relations and ask what they will contribute towards a replacement unit (the list price is £381.50 + vat) and lobour will be around £100 + vat so total around £600.

Good luck I hope you are treated better than I was!

Wardair

[Darcy]

Thank you for that. I can't help thinking a software patch will just delay a complete failure (presently the car behaves slightly erratically when the light comes on). And I wonder if Volvo will waive the fifty quid diagnostic charge?

Will let you know how I get on.

Cheers.

[Wardair]

You are quite right - the module will fail completely, it is just a matter of time. My car ran for many months with ETS light sometimes showing.

I do not think you should be charged for the diagnostic test if it is the ETM.

Have a good read of the US site Vexed Volvo

http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/tech_info.html

From this you will see that even in the US where there is a declared 'Limited Warranty' Volvo are trying to get people to pay for repairs!

Disgraceful behaviour!!

Wardair

[detgnome]

Intrestingly (well for me), after a period of the ETS light coming on it has now gone out. It was replaced for a while by the engine management light, which conincided with an occasional erratic idle - the revs would dip to about 500 rpm when you came off the throttle before stabilising at a normal level. Both are currently extinguished so I shall carry on until I get some more persistent symptoms. My V70 is now at 110000 miles, so the ETM may already have been replaced and I may be experiencing some other, unrelated, problem. As a complete aside, the engine management light went out when I used non-supermarket fuel - sorry for drifting off thread.

Still, forewarned is forearmed - I still expect to have to replace it at some point!

[Wardair]

You can check if the module has been changed as the replacement should have a yellow part number label wheras the original part has a white label. The replacement part number is V08644347, I am not sure what the old part number was as is has been rubbed off on my failed unit.

[Darcy]

See also thread "Electrics: 70: - ETS Warning Light".

£57 diagnostic at Volvo on Saturday told me that my Clutch Position Sensor was faulty. Went home and cleaned the sensor and so far no ETS light since ......

Will give it a few days, but with luck that's all it was.

Volvo quoted £100 to replace it.

[Wardair]

It is interesting that the Clutch Position Sensor also brings up the ETS light?
I will have to ask my friendly ex Volvo service manager about this.

I have started a new thread to try and capture data regarding this ETM failure issue and how Volvo Car UK are handling the matter.(see following thread)

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?p=158161#post158161

if you have had an ETM failure please post a reply to the above thread.

Thank you

[Muscas]

It is interesting that the Clutch Position Sensor also brings up the ETS light?
I will have to ask my friendly ex Volvo service manager about this.

I have started a new thread to try and capture data regarding this ETM failure issue and how Volvo Car UK are handling the matter.(see following thread)

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?p=158161#post158161

if you have had an ETM failure please post a reply to the above thread.

Thank you

To the best of the knowledge the clutch position sensor has nothing to do with the ETS light.

Patrick

[roadhog]

When my clutch position sensor went it brought on the engine management light, the amber one with the piccy of an engine not the ETS light.

[Kimibe]

Just read the BBC article it mentions the petrol engines.

Am i to understand that the TDi engines do not suffer from this ETM failure?

Cheers

[Zota]

Further to my earlier posts to Oli & THMS;
I have had a reply from Toyota where they said it was on a ceramic base, but would not admit that it was a carbon pot. Being on ceramic it almost certain it is carbon.
Honda has not been able to give an answer and
Mazda said they are Hall Effect tranducers on both throttle and pedal.
So THMS your suggestion of Hall effect types is spot on.

Volvo Australia is still in denial. If anyone here is in Australia please reply and we might take it up with the NRMA or RACV.

In Australia they do not have new replacements only "Reconditioned" ones.
I don't believe that they can redeposit carbon on the tracks so I believe that they must be raiding the wrecker yards.
The implication of this is that there is an ever smaller number of ETMs going the rounds and sooner or later they will run out.

Not much choice but to get rid of it and buy a Mazda !

Barry

[Darcy]

Update following my last entry of the 16th October. Since cleaning the clutch position sensor I have had no ETS warning lamps. ETS = Electronic Throttle System I think. Because depressing the clutch will disengage the cruise control, isn't it sensible that the clutch sensor is a component of the ETS?

[Gregor]

Im putting my v70 in to Strathmore volvo in perth tomorrow to get my free software uprade, unfortunately not before i had to spend 600 quid replacing the etm in the summer! I had an engine management warning light come on the other week and as i happened to be in perth i nipped in to strathmore and they ran a diagnostic test and only thing that came up was a faulty temp sensor for the aircon, mechanic reckoned i musta kangarood at a junction and the light came on, aparantly quite common, but the best thing was they didn't charge me for the diagnostic, so top marks for strathmore.

[nest]

hello all

I've just read this thread as I have recently purchased an S80 and have just saw the BBC Watchdog program.


So far as I understand things the ETM failure is caused by failure of positional information from the throttle caused by the potentiometer wiper contact friction wearing through the resistive material of the sender unit giving rise to false or garbled throttle position information.

Volvo say they are carrying out remedial action by upgrading software ???????????????


Can someone explain how a software upgrade can solve a hardware failure ?

[Muscas]

It can't !

It's a fraud.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you are stuck with a poorly designed component that has the potential to cause a fatal accident in the event of it's failure.

Patrick


hello all

I've just read this thread as I have recently purchased an S80 and have just saw the BBC Watchdog program.


So far as I understand things the ETM failure is caused by failure of positional information from the throttle caused by the potentiometer wiper contact friction wearing through the resistive material of the sender unit giving rise to false or garbled throttle position information.

Volvo say they are carrying out remedial action by upgrading software ???????????????


Can someone explain how a software upgrade can solve a hardware failure ?

[Andy_eclipse]

Nest it can't. If I understand it correctly the software upgrade reduces the tendancy for the wiper inside the throttle to jitter about and therefore will increase the life of the part, it may also desensitise the assembly thereby making it less likely to go into a fault condition, but does not fix the problem if it already exists.

hello all

I've just read this thread as I have recently purchased an S80 and have just saw the BBC Watchdog program.


So far as I understand things the ETM failure is caused by failure of positional information from the throttle caused by the potentiometer wiper contact friction wearing through the resistive material of the sender unit giving rise to false or garbled throttle position information.

Volvo say they are carrying out remedial action by upgrading software ???????????????


Can someone explain how a software upgrade can solve a hardware failure ?

[nest]

It can't !

It's a fraud.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you are stuck with a poorly designed component that has the potential to cause a fatal accident in the event of it's failure.

Patrick

you are not disappointing me Patrick

I'm already of the opinion this fault is not possible to be corrected by a software upgrade and if Volvo say it can I'd love to hear how.

[Andy_eclipse]

Nest

If you have to have the ETM replaced and you have to pay take the dealer to court who sold you the car. I have just done the same and recovered the whole cost.
There is a risk involved but the part is not fit for purpose under the sale of goods act.

[nest]

Nest

If you have to have the ETM replaced and you have to pay take the dealer to court who sold you the car. I have just done the same and recovered the whole cost.
There is a risk involved but the part is not fit for purpose under the sale of goods act.


thanks for that Andy but it was a private sale so that option looks slim

the only way for me is to tackle Volvo themselves

ps my car is displaying signs of this defect (ie idle stalls):emoticon_U:

[Andy_eclipse]

Nest

Sorry, that is a problem! :emoticon_U:

I am going to try to publicize my situation as much as possible in the hope that Volvo may just give in and start to replace the ETM free.

[nest]

Nest

Sorry, that is a problem! :emoticon_U:

I am going to try to publicize my situation as much as possible in the hope that Volvo may just give in and start to replace the ETM free.


no worries Andy go for it

seems there has been a change in Volvo's company exposition regarding safety :speechless-smiley-6

[Andy_eclipse]

no worries Andy go for it

seems there has been a change in Volvo's company exposition regarding safety :speechless-smiley-6

and their attitude to customer service....

I have never spoken to such an unhelpful bunch of people. On the plus side though when you raise a complaint with them they foolishly ask for your feedback "so they may improve their service". Obviously the thought of not expecting their customers to pay for their mistakes does not occur to them as a way of "improving their service". It does give an opportunity to tell them what you think for what good it will do.

[nest]

and their attitude to customer service....

I have never spoken to such an unhelpful bunch of people. On the plus side though when you raise a complaint with them they foolishly ask for your feedback "so they may improve their service". Obviously the thought of not expecting their customers to pay for their mistakes does not occur to them as a way of "improving their service". It does give an opportunity to tell them what you think for what good it will do.

feedback ? ..........one word ........."brandname"

VOLVO = SAFETY and RELIABILITY (or does it ?)

both an issue with this problem

I think they should be concentrating on their brand name and what Volvo represents,

I think it is more important for them to retain that in the long run

after all, it's what gave them an edge through the lean times

[arvs31260]

Hi guys,

Well back into the new year of 2007 with every intention of putting my motor back in good working order. She went into Riverside Volvo in Hull on 4/01/07 for 2 days to enable a thorough examination and diagnostics.

Before I go on, let me remind any of you who have read my other threads that I have replaced in the last 2 months, with genuine Volvo parts, the fuel filter, the air filter, the spark plugs and a reconditioned air flow meter (12 month guarantee). The garage were made aware of this before the ETM clean and software upgrade in December.

The head mechanic at the garage has a Volvo V70 2.5 20v classic 1999, so as this was in good working order, the idea was to be to use this as the donor vehicle for all the parts they would try as part of the diagnostics and to check if the ETM was the culprit!

They loaned me an S40 56 plate, which felt like a Ford Focus and is a firm reminder of why we enjoy our 'proper' Volvos. On 5/01/07, the service manager from the garage rang. He advised me that they had checked by 'swap over' from the donor vehicle the: Spark plugs, the AFM, the air filter. The coil plugs were also checked and were OK. They also checked the fuel filter and the fuel flow delivery rate at the injectors. They carried out compression checks and they all were OK. So all checked out OK. They also checked the ETM which tested OK. So I was advised that the error could be the injectors!

I was advised my options were to either have them serviced or replace them. I am told servicing is not necessarily successful and for genuine parts are about £400 plus fitting etc.

The Bosch service centre who reset my ECU following the fitting of the AFM have suggested I try a higher octane fuel before spending loads on injectors.

I remain unconvinced that the Volvo garage are right on the ETM. The rough running and error codes that I had before the ETM software upgrade have not been mentioned. I don't have the engine warning light coming on as I did before, but this may have something to do with the software upgrade. The garage did not swap the injectors over, which I find strange (especially as the diagnostics days cost me £90!!!). They don't carry the injectors in stock. They are a Volvo supply part and come from Sweden. (Alas they are Denso again). Nordic do not appear to offer these in their on line catalogue.

So, while I search for alternative priced injectors, I will try 3 tanks of Shell Optimax 98 octane as recommended before expending more sums of money.:speechless-smiley-6 :Dancing_chief:

[chrisoftheday]

What's the best thing to do?

Pay for the solution through the dealer using Volvo parts and then take them to court to recover the cost - should be successful now that the precedent has been set in Horsham County Court...

Or

Source the part as cheaply as possible and get it fitted (with no guarantee that it will solve the problem) - after having the software upgrade and clean done by the dealer?

I want to see VolvoUK take responsibility for the issue BUT don't like the idea of forking out at their rates.

What's a guy to do? Who else is faced with this problem and who has already had it fixed and paid through the nose?

Chris (see my other posts for history of the case)

[ngaff1]

A question if i may guys. I've been reading through the posts but am a bit confused.
On the way home tonight my car (2001 S60 2.4t) lost power and a message appeared stating "reduced performance". I was able to crawl along at about 15mph and was lucky to be about 30 seconds from home. On moving the car once I'd got home the message had gone and performance seemed fine (although only moved from one side of the road to the other). Is the ETM wasted or could it be another fault ie position sensors that I have read about in the posts? The cruise control doesn't always work due to a faulty brake sensor according to the local Volvo dealer.
Only had the car a few months (bought privately) and am gutted if I'll now need to spend ££££ on the ETM.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Cheers
Neil

[ngaff1]

Car has been into garage. Clean and software update done. Garage claim they have had no problems with any cars they have carried out this work on. My fingers are crossed that I don't have any further problems.

[Ben 77]

My 2001 V70 T5 went into limp mode last night and after having the codes read at my mechanic it has to go to Volvo for the ETM clean and upgrade.Will let you know how i get on.

Ben.

[ollieoxford]

After starting this thread long ago, I felt it only fair I update.

My second ETM replacement (under warranty) has performed well to date, though admitedly thats only been another 4,000 miles. My circumstances have changed, and it was with some sadness I've had to sell my C70 to some lucky fellow from Rotherham, leaving myself with only an agricultural 940 2.3LPT as sole transport.

My own correspondances with Volord were inconclusive, and I'm glad that Watchdog had some effect in the end, though apparently not as much as some people finally taking legal action. It is a sad state of affairs when one has to resort to taking a company built on its reputation for safety to court over a safety issue.

Keep fighting the cause.

[Kimbie]

So does this issue effect S reg V70s?

[roadhog]

It affects all ME7 cars. Mine's a '99 S-reg T5 and it very definitely is affected, although not at the moment. I've had the upgrade done at my cost by an indie and other than burning a couple of exhaust valves since the car has been fine. Fingers crossed!!

[beoutside]

You are right on the nose for the situation in N america.
We just bought a Volvo use 1999 v70 x/c, and thanks to your info called up the local service tech. They searched the vin number and made an appointment this week for two warranty repairs. The throttle module and a faulty light harness I believe.
Thanks for the info and good luck with Volvo UK
A Canadian living in US , Donny

[AllyB]

I have read some of the comments on Electronic Throttle System (ETS) problems. My year 2000 C70 now has this fault. I have to wait for the ETS light to come on before the car will start. I live in Surrey in the UK and use the local dealer Squire Furneaux. Has anyone had any luck in getting it fixed free of charge? My car has done 59,000 miles.

[keefrto1]

I have read some of the comments on Electronic Throttle System (ETS) problems. My year 2000 C70 now has this fault. I have to wait for the ETS light to come on before the car will start. I live in Surrey in the UK and use the local dealer Squire Furneaux. Has anyone had any luck in getting it fixed free of charge? My car has done 59,000 miles.
Hi is this the same problem as the ETM issue? If it is I have just bought a C70 T5 GT AUTO 2000 and because of this website I asked the garage to send the vehicle to Volvo for the software upgrade which is free. Check out www.volvocars.co.uk and I beleive its under ownership section where volvo have a statment.
cheers

[keefrto1]

sorry if this has been postedaready:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/5331373/detail.html
OH MY GOD WATCH THE VIDEO

[OogieBoogie]

I have read some of the comments on Electronic Throttle System (ETS) problems. My year 2000 C70 now has this fault. I have to wait for the ETS light to come on before the car will start. I live in Surrey in the UK and use the local dealer Squire Furneaux. Has anyone had any luck in getting it fixed free of charge? My car has done 59,000 miles.

You've probably had this done by now - but if not the Squire Furneaux guys at Pirbright did it no questions asked after mine died on the way home just after xmas.

[kelpie]

hi oogieboogie,
Was that just a clean and software upgrade,or a whole new unit replaced free ?

[Oli]

Volvo customer services told me this week that the cost of replacement is now £250 with a £50 (20%) contribution from Volvo on my car. I've a reference number I can give to any dealer to get the work done when I feel it's needed.

Now that may still be £200, but it is £450 less than the dealer wanted to charge me a month ago!

Oli

[Muscas]

Volvo customer services told me this week that the cost of replacement is now £250 with a £50 (20%) contribution from Volvo on my car. I've a reference number I can give to any dealer to get the work done when I feel it's needed.

Now that may still be £200, but it is £450 less than the dealer wanted to charge me a month ago!

Oli

Hi Oli,

How is life????

What is the mileage on your car?
Seems like I got a raw deal from Volvo, I had to pay £550 13 months ago and that included a 10% discount from the dealer.
My opinion of Volvo is not improving!

Patrick

[Oli]

Hi Oli,

How is life????

What is the mileage on your car?
Seems like I got a raw deal from Volvo, I had to pay £550 13 months ago and that included a 10% discount from the dealer.
My opinion of Volvo is not improving!

Patrick

Hey Patrick,

Pretty good, except for a sprained ankle that refuses to repair.

My milage is now up to 97k miles. I had the software updated a while back and the instances of poor idle and irratic revs has dropped off a lot, but not completely eliminated. However, I had to speak to Volvo on another matter and the price of replacement of the ETM came up in conversation. This deal should be available to everybody it seemed. I'd give them a call if I were you and see if there's anything they can do for you retrospectively. They did say that it is a new pricing policy though - and yes, given what we know, it should be free.

I'll be posting on the real reason for contacting Volvo once the issue is resolved.

Passed an MOT this week with no observations, so pretty pleased/releaved. Tyres will need doing soon, so saving up for a decent set.

Work is work; family great, though exhausting; enjoying the sun.

How about you?

Oli

[Muscas]

Hi Oli,

PM sent.

Patrick

[GullH]

I've had the same problem and after taking my S60 Bi-Fuel to my local Volvo dealer and having the "software upgrade and ETM cleaned" my car is still the same. The dealer told me that I have to have the ETM replaced and that Volvo UK will not meet the cost as my car is 2002 registered and has done 97K miles. After contacting Volvo Helpline (0845-756-4636) the dealer has now told me that the cost is £260.59 inc VAT and fitting and I have to pay 50% of this as Volvo will pay the other 50%. Still rubbish though as we all know it shud be free.

[graemet]

Recently had problems with an ETM failure.
Contacted Volvo Uk direct and said that I knew this was a know problem and had resulted in recalls in other parts of the world.
They asked the age and model of the car and said it was one of those affected , and should be booked into a local dealer for a software upgrade and clean up.
They garage carried out the clean up and software upgarde but it apeared that the ETM units was too far gone and would have to be replaced.
Volvo UK make a sizeable contribution to the repair so the final bill was £230.00 and the cars now going fine.
My car is a 1999, V70, 2.5 20v.
Hope this info helps someone.
gt

[Paddler Ed]

What's the mileage?

Mine was cleaned at 172k at the start of the yr, and is now at 183k so I'm wondering when to factor in a new ETM

[JimDay]

Sorry wrong thread

[jimmyocharlie]

my light came on yesterday.


its an auto so wasn't too much drama when it went funny.


wonder how long till it packs up???

[jameswalsh]

can anybody tell me exactly where the throttle body/position sensor is on my v70 2001 b5204t5 model is ?

[silestanix]

Just to add to this; my car's ETS light came on and exhibited the symptoms of ETM Failure last night. I rang up VOLVO UK this morning and they asked for my reg number etc and said it was out of warranty due to it having done 131k miles and me only having owned it for 2-3 weeks.

Quite pi**ed off now, I've bought my most luxurious car yet and it's being more unreliable than any of the little french hatchbacks I've had!!

[terry_cunnane]

they asked for my reg number etc and said it was out of warranty due to it having done 131k miles and me only having owned it for 2-3 weeks.


Does that mean you'll have to bear the whole cost of replacement yourself then?

Terry

[ajpaynter]

All the threads I've read so far have been for cars up to 2002. My V70 2ltr is 2005 WITH 128,000 on it & appears to have the same problems ie. a hesitation when running on constant throttle, almost like a misfire. The local Volvo dealer said the Mass Flow Sensor was faulty & changed it but when they returned the car to me, they said the fault was still there & put the possible blame on the LPG system. I have had the ECU changed on the LPG system but it has made no difference to the hesitation which happens whether the car is running on either fuel. I have disconnected the MFS & it has partly eased the situation but it still does not run properly. Have also had an air leak test as well without any signs of leaks. Have had new plugs etc fitted in case it was these but no difference,I am at a loss to know where to look next. Can anybody help,PLEASE.

[classicswede]

Try posting in the LPG section of the forum

[shaggedetms]

hi im from aust and recently purchased a 1999 v70 for 300 dollars and was aware of the etm problem. i trailered the car 300 kilometers to home then when i started it to take off trailer ,it ran perfectly. considering the previous owner hadnt driven the car in 6 months because of problem i thought that a trailer ride solved the problem was improbable so i looked on net for maybe anybody else having same problem and was taken back to how many stuffed v70s are out there, i havent had car fixed at the moment($1300) but can still drive car if i play with it first,,but i cant understand how the ******s at volvo know about this problem and decided that its their customers problem and if you dont like that well go and plait your ****,then you have people like oilburner crying because people are picking on volvo well to all you shiny bums at volvo and people that think the sun shines from volvos arse these problems aren,t going away and 450,000cars still barely making it to the volvo dealerships to be ripped thousands of dollars VOLVO you should be ashamed of yourselfs

[tj101c70]

hi im from aust and recently purchased a 1999 v70 for 300 dollars and was aware of the etm problem.


You pay scrap valve for a car, aware that it has a problem,
and then register here and moan on a old thread, when Volvo won't repair it for free and make it all good again for you !!!

Time to get real, my friend,

[shaggedetms]

hey dopey when you want to have a go at someone get ya facts straight ...i did not get on the forum to moan about anything.. i got on to see if anyone else was having a problem and was taken by surprise at how many cars have the same problem and as for volvos lack of response to this problem well no wonder ford own them and as for your list of crap boxes you own or have owned ...it seems to me that you are going to have a lot of time travelling to the repair shops ...so have a good day mate

[Nick44]

Hi Shagged,
Welcome to the Forum, but maybe not got off to a good start?
I don't know if you trailled through the entire thread, it goes back years with many posts.
Volvo UK did do something about this issue, my own V70 Ph2 2001 was recalled by Volvo, and went into the shop and out at no charge to me.
There (if memory serves ) were 2 different types of ETM fitted to these cars, the Bosch one, and the Magneto Marrelli one. Again if memery serves, it was that Magneto Marelli ones that had the problem and it was caused by the carbon from the wiper brushes scoring the flexible track on the stepper motor/ and or/ a build up of carbon on the butterfly valve.
There are in these pages a couple of good cheap fixes for the issue, top of which is just a good clean of the stepper motor internals and a good squirt of carb cleaner in the valve body.
I beleive the easy way to tell which you have is by checking for a little "dot" sticker on the ETM. a yellow one is Magneto Marelli, and green one is Bosch. Further I seem to remember that if you have a yellow sticker with a half green flash then the recall has been done. Alternatly, contact your Volvo dealer and quote the VIN. If the recall has been carried out they will be able to tell you.

In the UK the DVLA keeps a track of who owns what car, and in the event of a recall like this the current owner is notified and invited to their dealership for an FOC inspection. Maybe down under it dosn't work like this - I don't know - so the former owner(s) may not have been notified, or bothered to follow up.

Remember the ETM is just a modern version of a carburetter air-flow butterfly. It works very hard and will of course wear over it's life. You don't say how many miles your new purchase has done, but at that age I would guess over 100,000 miles. My 2001 V70 now has 160,000 on it, and my 2000 S80 148,000. Nothing lasts forever, but that's not bad going is it?

However, I do think JJ101 may have a point. You paid less than £200 for the car, knowing it had a fault.

Fair also to say that Volvo did wriggle quite a lot initially, but did try to put matters right after a lot of fuss from owners and National vehicle agencies. Volvo are not owned by Ford anymore, and have not been for some while. For better or worse the Chinese own them now.

Hope this helps you.