ETS Light - ETM failure -> Volvo US admits to problem.

[ollieoxford]

For all of you with 1999 to 2001 Volvo 70's who (like me) have suffered ETS lights coming on, and expensive (£800+) Electronic throttle module failures, it would appear that Volvo North America has finally admitted to this being an initial design problem, and has extended the warrenty on the ETM to 10 years / 200,000 miles.

(http://www.vexedvolvo.com for all the details).

This obviously comes as no consolation to anyone in the UK who has already forked out big money for a replacement unit, and then discovers (as I have found) that the replacement unit can fail within 10,000 miles.

Short of opening a can of worms here, since I'm waiting for an official response from Volvo UK on this one, I'd like to gather as much information from users on this forum of their own experiences with respect to this problem, so I can hand a complete file to the relevant parties and consumer organisations, in the hope that we can achieve a similar outcome here.

Ollie

C70 T(rouble)5
940 2.3LPT

[GrahamB]

I guess that this issue justifies a lot of attention and input from members, particularly those that have been affected, or are likely to be affected.
I had an exchange of Emails with Don Willson of VEXED, who advised that my 2000 V70 Classic at 115000mls and with no ETM failure that I know of, is running on borrowed time, which is very worrying.(I have only had the car since 100,000mls)
What was interesting is that he advised that our Which? magazine is taking an interest and attempts are being made to get the BBC involved, presumably a program like Watchdog, which might sharpen the corporate mind?
I gather that Volvo's US arrangements for replacements on failure are not yet fully in place. Presumably Volvo is considering how to deal with the rest of the world and will make a statement soon - we hope! I trust that the VOC will be among the first to be advised.

[oilburner]

My V70 is now on 85,000 miles with the original ETM...

I'm getting nervous now waiting on Volvo to do something.

I asked Volvo "Customer Care" about the current plan and was told:
"Volvo UK has no plans regarding this component at present".

Great.

I don't mind so much buying a replacement, but if that fails after 10,000 miles then I'll be stuffed. I do 25,000 miles a year, or £2,000 worth of replacement ETMs!!! That's £167 a month to put aside for ETM failure...

That's just not even funny.

Unless something is done soon, the first signs of failure will lead to me trading my car in for a Honda or something else designed to last.
That would be sad, because I do love my V70.

[Al115]

Yeah, this has been posted up before...

If you're looking to compile a list of UK parties who have suffered ETM failures - great! Add my name, TWICE. :-)


Alastair

http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/photopost/data/513/thumbs/alava.gif

[Al115]

Forgot to say, I have also spoken with reps from "the BBC programme". They don't have much support at present so if we're going to get a list going, I'm sure that would help the cause.


http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/photopost/data/513/thumbs/alava.gif

[volvo2]

I also had an exchange of e-mail with Mr Wilson. Unfortunately, not particularly fruitful.

Amongst others here in the UK, I contacted Watchdog and Which some time ago. Neither were interested in following this up. I believe the BBC contact that Mr Wilson refers to may have followed. I also wrote to Volvo UK twice with no success.

M Smith

[ollieoxford]

I have now received the following corporate UK reply:

"Volvo Car Corporation are currently investigating complaints raised regarding the ETM (Electronic Throttle Module) fitted to their large car variants upon request from NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration) and CARB ( California Air Resources Board). To date no Recall or Field Action has been launched. Volvo will respond to NHTSA and CARB) by the end of September and meetings will follow. Thereafter, a decision will be taken as to what action, if any, is to be undertaken.

This action does not affect the UK market as NHTSA and CARB are both based in the US. Once all investigations are complete, VCC will determine which markets are affected, if any. Should a recall be launched, your dealer will contact you and therefore please ensure that your dealer has your latest contact details."

Basically, - watch this space but don't hold your breath.

Since my replacement ETM failed under 12 month unlimited mileage warranty, I am apparently covered for its replacement. (This I'll wait and see when I've managed to get it too my local dealer - different from the original dealer). I've already had the line from the garage though, that this is a different part to the US part (which is actually untrue). Hopefully my replacement will last long enough for Volvo UK to have sorted itself out(or alternatively fail within 12 months so it is replaced under warrenty!)

What was ever wrong with a mechanical throttle cable?

Ollie

C70 T(rouble)5
940 LPT

[oilburner]

whoops...duplicate posting...

[oilburner]

whoops..duplicate posting..

[oilburner]

"VCC will determine which markets are affected, if any"

Statements like that show that Volvo are still in denial over the whole thing. If it wasn't for California's strict emmissions laws and the dodgy memo that was leaked, we wouldn't even as got as far as these extended warranties in North America.

The chances of Volvo putting their hands up to this and putting our minds at rest seem to be getting more remote.

Out of interest, what mileage did your ETM fail at, and how many miles did the new one do before that failed?

I'm at 85K now with my V70, still with original ETM...

[Muscas]

Its weird how some cars have been effected "twice" and others are simply waiting to break down!

My car is on 84K and I have yet to experience a problem. Tomorrow I am having the 90K service performed, the big one including cam belt etc, probably as bad as an ETM failure!

Patrick

[ollieoxford]

I can't vouch 100% whether the ETM that initially failed for me was original, but it went at 63K miles, and intermittently, which was murder trying to get the dealer who sold me the car to admit to the problem and actually fix it. The C70 had had 2 owners before me.

The second one failed 7000 miles later, in 9 months, I can only assume it was a reconditioned item and hence c**p. This was covered under the units 12 month warrenty, and this one didn't fail intermittently, from the ETS light going on to being effectively imobile in limp-mode was 12 hours. I think there must have been a software update as well hence the instantaneous limp-home mode.

I'm waiting to pick my C70 up now, my local dealer is arguing with Volvo UK and the original dealer in Warwickshire about who is actually going to pay for the replacement ETM! I can only hope in future for one of 2 things a) if it fails again its within 12 months, b) in the next 12 months Volvo UK owns up to the problem. I will continue to pursue this to try and get some resolution, since I don't actually want to get rid of the car since when its working its brilliant.

The original throttle cable in my 940 is now 140K miles and pretty reliable.... why did they have to change it?

Ollie

C70 T(rouble)5
940 LPT

[oilburner]

That's crazy! I'd be getting through 3 of them a year with a 7K failure interval! Are they re-conditioning them because they haven't got any new ones to put in? It's likely these parts aren't manufactured any more since they were superseded back in 2002! And since so many have failed and can't use the superseded part...

I do increasingly feel I'm on borrowed time now with 85K now a distant memory already!

At least they do cover the replacements under a 12mths warranty. Although it is a worry if it manages to limp on for 12mths and 1 day!

Would the replacement ETMs be covered under a new 12mth warranty every time they're replaced or under the original replacement part?
i.e. my ETM fails in January (fingers crossed it doesn't!) and then fails again in August, clearly that would be covered, but does a fresh 12mth cover start until the following August or is the 2nd replacement only covered until January?

[Don Willson]

Hi guys and gals, I'm back.

Things have been busy on this side of the pond. As you know the California Air Resources Board got Volvo to agree to a 10 year, 200,000 mile extended warranty. But Volvo Car Corporation says that is between owners in the USA and Canada and Volvo Cars, North America.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has excalated their investigation to an Engineering Analysis. They want to see if they can find cars that totally stall, that is not the limp home mode. They can force a recall and hopefully a redesign if they can prove it is a safety problem.

I am gathering information on failures, especially on the replacement parts, Volvo part number 8644347. I had heard of failures as early as 12,000 miles but not as soon as 7,000 miles.

I will try to find out if Magneti Marelli is still making parts or if they are being rebuilt as some have speculated.

Paula Thomas of the BBC was not sure that the problem was of significant nature to warrant a story. I furnished Paula Thomas all of the names I had at that time. I now have 13 Vexed Warriors. If you would like I will keep the e-mail list and update you all as information is accumulated. After the first of the year I will contact Paula again and give you contact infomation to get a story on television.

Send your name, e-mail, city, country and inportant information about your car and how the dealer handled the replacement. I am putting together an e-mail to the UK, the EU, Asia, Australia and NZ. To get any weight behind your campaign you may need to organize in some manner. I will help all I can with the latest information. If you have someone in the UK that will act as a coordinator I will share the list and any information I have with them.

Send to VEXEDvolvo@comcast.net.

Don Willson for VEXED
htp://vexedvolvo.org (which I try to keep updated)

[craigelford]

Hi Guys

Very interesting, my ETM went at 125K after having the lamdha probes replaced twice to no avail.
Funny really I told the garage it was the ETM and they didn't believe me as no fault code was lodged, then after a horrendous journey with the car kangarooing up and down the motorway I went on the internet and found all of Don Wilson's very useful info.
I went back to my local dealer with everything printed off (including the US legal document) and told them what I thought of Volvo and how my wife drives this dangerous car (pregnant wife actually) and how I'd open a can of worms if they didn't fix it for free (bear in mind I have a 99 V70R with 125k on the clock) - 3 hours later they phoned me back to say Volvo UK agreed to replace the part and labour under warranty, not one little smacker to pay!!!
They also told me the part was different to the US one, what a load of rubbish it has the brightest yellow sticker on it with Magneto Marelli splashed all over it.
My advice don't take no for an answer Volvo UK will replace for free!!!

and Don, thanks for your hard work you saved me some serious money and earache from the missus who wanted to scrap the car (how could she!!)

[scoffbelly]

I have paid my £645.02 bill on 3 Nov 2005 and watching progress here. I am considering writing to volvo UK also as I am looking to purchase one of the new C70 models.

What is also worrying is a female colleague of mine last month had a new V50 2.4 petrol with about 2.5k on the clock as a hire car for a few days and had a frightening experience where the ETM went crazy and caused the car to accelerate to over 100mph all on its own on the motorway - a very scary experience taht could have had unthinkable consequences. She had to kill the engine and coast to the hard shoulder, I suggested she take some kind of action, but she didnt want to as she just wanted to forget about it. After the RAC recovered the V50 The car hire company said they would take it back to volvo and gave her a replacement S60.

These ETM's are a problem and I have 2nd thoughts about buying the new C70 if it has the same technology - a shame because I love my current C70 - ETM aside.

[lemaz73]

Hi all, new to this forum!

My car is going at the dealer's tomorrow. Suspected ETM failure... The car has been coughing up in the morning for 10-15 seconds - all fine afterwards. Volvo specialist checked it and said it was probably the ETM but told me to go to the dealer as they are the only one who can download update. Will keep you updated. FYI, model is: s60 t5, 2001, 72000 miles.

Cheers...

[PunkDebutante]

Add me to the ETM failure list. My 2000 V70 T5 with 78,000 died while on my my to the hospital to dicuss delivery of my twins. My husband and I contacted Volvo Customer Care and was told they are very aware of the failure but have no intention of fixing it or issuing any sort of recall or extended warranty as is done in the US.

The lovely person I spoke with, Sabrina, also suggested that if I wasn't happy with their treatment that I should return to America (I am American and married to a Brit) and act like the other obnoxious Americans that are whinging.

Not happy at all! Just spent £150 on December 27th for a thermostat and that wasn't even the problem. So much for buying a reliable car.

[chriscxd]

Car details: Volvo S60 2.0 litre TS, purchased new in the UK in 2001, full Volvo service history.

I noticed erratic idling on my Volvo S60 at approx 60,000 miles. At 66,000 mile service the ETM module was replaced (January 05) and I was horrified at the cost:

Labour cost to diagnose & replace = £160
Throttle Housing (part no V08644347) = £378
ETM Reload (Vo8645425) = £21

Total = £ 559

No problems since - now on 89k miles.

Complained to Volvo UK in December having seen Don's site and got the same response as ollieoxford. Can't see how Volvo can get out of this one ....

[johnbV70]

here is what is happening me if anyone can help:

My car is a late 2000 V70 2.4 (140 hp) non turbo petrol, faults all started at about 90k miles on the clock and am now at 102k.

when started from cold, the car runs rough and will not rev above 1000 rpm, even if trotlle pushed down all the way. When turned off and immediately back on all is fine and no problems until the next cold start. Ive noticed that when cold if I only turn on the ignition (to II on the switch) then off and then start the car everything is fine. The problem is getting worse the colder the weather gets i.e. in summer no problem then intermittent towards autumn and now every cold start is a problem so the whole thing seems ambient temperature related.
Independent workshop running Volvo’s diagnostics indicates internal fault with throttle body but no more clues. Im not convinced given that the car runs perfectly otherwise. The cruise control quit in Spring in case that means anything.

Volvo UK didnt want to know and had no real interest in helping either. Talk about customer support at it's worst. Ive a good mind to get onto Volvo Sweden directly.

We need to create a stir in the motoring press based on fact that Volvo US recognising the problem but UK being treated unfairly. I write for magazines in N Ireland and am only too glad to help as these people need taught that it is totally unreasonable for the way they are behaving. Guess who will never be buying any sort of Volvo again. Above is just some of a string of issues Ive had.

[johnbV70]

Hi Don,

This ETM cannot be rocket science - Magnetti Morelli built it !

Does anyone know how the ETM actually work. Has anyone taken theirs apart. I suspect there is very little inside and we are all being ripped off big time.

If a clean of mine doesnt work (which I suspect it wont) then Im prepared to give it a go if someone can feed me some info. Do we have any contacts at Magnetti Morelli - they need spewed over in this as well.

here is what is happening me if you know of anyone that can help:

My car is a late 2000 V70 2.4 (140 hp) non turbo petrol, faults all started at about 90k miles on the clock and am now at 102k.

when started from cold, the car runs rough and will not rev above 1000 rpm, even if trotlle pushed down all the way. When turned off and immediately back on all is fine and no problems until the next cold start. Ive noticed that when cold if I only turn on the ignition (to II on the switch) then off and then start the car everything is fine. The problem is getting worse the colder the weather gets i.e. in summer no problem then intermittent towards autumn and now every cold start is a problem so the whole thing seems ambient temperature related.
Independent workshop running Volvo’s diagnostics indicates internal fault with throttle body but no more clues. Im not convinced given that the car runs perfectly otherwise. The cruise control quit in Spring in case that means anything.

Volvo UK didnt want to know and had no real interest in helping either. Talk about customer support at it's worst. Ive a good mind to get onto Volvo Sweden directly.

We need to create a stir in the motoring press based on fact that Volvo US recognising the problem but UK being treated unfairly. I write for magazines in N Ireland and am only too glad to help as these people need taught that it is totally unreasonable for the way they are behaving. Guess who will never be buying any sort of Volvo again. Above is just some of a string of issues Ive had.

[Colvo]

Having done a quick search on Google I have come across this thread which makes very interesting reading. My C70 T5 has been "lumpy" for some time now, especially in cruise. At the last service, 72000, my Independant Dealer did not think there was a problem. However 1500 mile later whilst overtaking a lorry this evening the ETS light came on and power was reduced somewhat alarmingly ( vehicles coming in the opposite direction) fortunately it would still go up to 4000 rpm, but it then felt as though a restrictor had been fitted. I only had 4 mile to get home and power was certainly lacking at all revs. Additionally the cruise would no longer function. Got home, turned it off, after some very fluctuating revs at idle, restarted and ETS light now off!!
I got out my owners manual and had a quick check and as you know the solution is "Switch off the ignition and start the engine again, if the lamp is still on contact your Volvo dealer to have the car checked." Were they aware of the problem when the manual was written?

I have a friend who had had his bits replaced after experiencing the no more than 10 mph mode.

Please add my name to any list that may be sent to Volvo, BBC etc..

I await further speed fluctuations, could be exciting on a motorway.

[scoffbelly]

Hi John

Have a look at Don's site, he has put all the technical details of the problem with photos & diagrams on his website see http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/tech_info.html

In summary....to quote Don - "The final failure mode for the Volvo Electronic Throttle Module, made by Magneti Marelli in Italy and used on 1999, 2000 and 2001, 70 and 80 series Volvos, is the wearing out of the resistor film on the two throttle butterfly position potentiometers.

The time to failure is determined by the repetitive movement of the potentiometer wiper across the softer thick film resistor. Thus, in-town stop and go driving with many throttle movements per mile will wear out the potentiometer film faster than long distance driving with few throttle movements per mile".

Dons Conclusions:
The construction of this potentiometer is obviously not suitable for the application. Considering that in the life of the car there will be multiple millions of cycles of the throttle, the action of the hard metallic finger tips riding on the soft thick film carbon resistor element is a designed-in shortcoming that will result in an estimated 100% or more, failure rate in the life of the Volvo automobile.

Owners of 1999, 2000, 2001 volvos are all seeing the problem manifest itself round about now - my Nov 2000 C70 ETM went at 96K miles in Nov 2005. Mine is an Auto and looking at Dons diagnosis, I wonder if manuals will wear slightly quicker than autos as the throttle is possibly used less ?

I am also awaiting a reply from a written letter that included all details of how the US extended the warranty to 200k miles asking for a refund from Volvo UK and the main dealer who charged me £645.00 to replace my failed Magneti Marelli ETM.

I have also posted a link to Dons site and brief description on the BBC's TopGear website - www.topgear.com - would be great if Clarkson told the nations volvo drivers about the problem in his new series, that might prompt some action from volvo UK, especially as Volvo will be hoping current C70 owners will be tempted to trade up to the new Mk2.

[PunkDebutante]

After a 3 day long battle between Marshall Volvo, Volvo UK and me, Volvo UK has stated that they have no intention of footing any of the bill and have never done so for any Volvo client out of warranty. They admit the ETM failure and are telling me that if I do not pay the £742 my car will not run. Also, I paid Volvo £150 for a thermostat replacement last week which was apparently the first fault code to appear after the ETM failure (and it is apparently Volvo's policy to treat the first fault code only and then take it from there). So in the last month, I have paid out £1400 for a car that I have lost complete faith in.

I think the real downfall is that there is no third party in the UK to force a recall or product investigation like there is in the US. Volvo UK is taking the **** with its consumers and they obviously care more about the American market than they do the UK market. I guess we must have more money to pay for ingrained faults that lie with Volvo than the US clients do.

I will never own another Volvo again. Their customer service is appalling and I have every intention of voicing my opinion loudly to anyone that will hear. I bought Volvo due to their reputation for being a safe and reliable car and they are neither. Volvo UK has made it abundantly clear that my safety and that of my children isn't important simply because I chose to live in the UK versus North America. Shame on you Volvo.

[nickdirtyd]

It seems at 90k miles my dads ETM was in the veteran years of its life... However when *PAYING* a visit to the local volvo dealer to replace the part we were welcomed with the always exciting phrase. Hello Mr Brown it seems we have a 'little' problem. The replacement ETM we have recieved is also faulty. Faulty you say? Yes faulty, the data that has to be installed... well it just wont install. So is this another common problem with the ETM? No not really a common problem but we recieve a few. Oh OK so do you have more than one in stock? Yes however one is currently being fitted. : ) and the other it would unfortunately appear is also damaged. We were actually told at the fitting centre by a mechanic that the fault is extremely common (hmmm well it almost went unnoticed).
What I would really like to know is, are these parts still being fitted to current models of Volvo cars rolling off production?
If so does this mean Volvo are producing and selling cars which they know are not suitably fit for their intended purpose.
I think my dads experience justifys his name being included 3 times!

[setjett5]

Hi,
I have just spent over £250 trying to find out what was causing this all to no avail I,m kicking myself for not checking out the site first,I have a 1999 V reg and its done 53,400 and I have had this problem for about six weeks now,the fact I live in Jersey and being up and down the gear box as you do in a small island explains why it,s happened so soon.I have come across a site where they say they can remanufacture the ETM,it,s called BBA-reman.com based in Kent,anyone know of them?

[AGB]

I have a 2000 Volvo V70 T5 and the diagnostic indicated a faulty ETM. Volvo UK weren't interested in the USA situation, the customer mis-service rep. stated it wasn't the same component as used there and they would contact owners if they thought it to be necessary! Faced with a car that was dangerous to drive it needed to be repaired.
The Volvo dealers quote was £380 for the ETM, 2 hours @ £80/hr, software download @ £25 (all + VAT) = £665. However I also found that BBA-reman.com offered a remanufacturing service. They charged £250 and repaired the unit in 24 hours. The car seems to run OK and I recommend them to anyone who may need this service.

[volvo2]

Hi

Do you know if the repair is to the same specification, i.e. will again fail prematurely. I wrote to them asking this and received no reply.

Melvyn

[ian_w]

Just had my ETM replaced today at the main dealers under a used car warranty. Was expecting to have to kick up a bit of a stink as I saw a bill for £600 on the desk but the guy just gave me my key back and said everything was covered.

I had previously mentioned about the US 'recall' and got the std "they are different in the US" answer.

I have seen BBA selling on EBay, they charge £150 for a recon.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Volvo-Marelli-Electronic-Throttle-System_W0QQitemZ4603895339QQcategoryZ10432QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[sierraman]

Hi

I have a Volvo v70 classic 140 which was first registered on 28/04/2000. Having owned the car for only a month i have been advised that it is now showing the first symptoms of etm failure. My only hope is that a "strip down and clean" may delay replacement for a while!
What a joke.This "Luxury"car has only done 83000 miles and it appears that it is going to cost me nearly £700 to rectify a manufacturing defect! How are Volvo being allowed to get away with this and is'nt it Ford who are ultimately responseable?

I have always wanted a Volvo and it is the most expensive and most luxurious car that i have ever owned. Someone who buys this type of car expects to receive a higher class of service and be treated with respect. I recently phoned THREE Volvo dealers and all THREE were unable to let me speak to someone inorder for me to book my car in for a service+ belts etc etc. All 3 promised to get someone to phone me back but didn't (and this was before i learned about my etm problems)This whole situation is a disgrace.

It appears to me after only a month of Volvo ownership that i have made a costly mistake. Volvo should be falling over backwards to remedy this situation and they urgently need to sort the dealers out as well.

So please put my name is on the list to ensure that Volvo treat uk buyers of their cars fairly.

[oilburner]

Seems you've been unlucky. All the Volvo main dealers and independents I've used have been brilliant. Try shopping around some more?

BTW, your problems (you didn't say exactly what they were) with the car may not be the ETM, although it will fail eventually, that is true.

To be honest, annoying as it is, if you review owner reports for all kinds of different cars from different manufacturers it is rare that there isn't some major fault that happens to most, if not all cars at some point. That's life. Even the Japanese brands aren't indestructible, despite the folklore.

Enjoy your V70 for what it is, a top class comfortable cruiser with exceptional practicality.

After all, if you take the car to main dealers you'll be lucky to see change from £600 for a service + cambelt (which your car will need soon, if it has not been done already). In that context, is the ETM replacement cost so bad?
After all, for a top luxury car, comes top maintenance costs. Yes Volvo should sort it, but right now they don't see why they should. IMO, it's only on an emissions technicality that Volvo US are agreeing to replace ETMs for free. I wouldn't see it as Volvo UK being deliberately un-cooperative.

Try taking it to an indy Volvo specialist, there are many listed here and most people have one they favour. The money you can save on servicing and maintenance compared to the main dealers could go a long way to paying for a new ETM and you get to keep a very good car...

Enjoy your V70 and try not to let this ETM thing ruin it for you. Who knows, it might carry on for another 20-30,000 miles yet anyway?

It could be worse, just look at the problems some 2002-2003 D5 owners have suffered with injectors...

[volvo2]

I don't think I could disagree more. This part is well known to have a defect that will cause it to fail prematurely. To make matters infinitely more serious this is the very worst and most dangerous kind of defect. The failure occurs catastrophically, i.e. suddenly and completely and without warning. In other words one could suddenly lose power while overtaking in heavy traffic. How can that not have significant safety implications? My own V70 has had throttle control problems almost from new. There is no adequate warning nor can the problem be detected by routine maintenance or servicing. There are no unusual noises or marked changes in handling or performance prior to failure. This is most certainly not what one would expect from a Volvo or any other half decent car. The fact that Volvo UK pretend the problem does not exist is an absolute disgrace.

Melvyn

[oilburner]

This is all hearsay right - has anybody actually had a failure that has resulted in injury or worse? Last I heard the NHTSA in the US were still looking for such a report and had not found one.

As for the failure mode, is it really any worse than a tyre blow out or ECU failure or any number of things that can leave you suddenly in trouble at an inopportune moment?

It's not like the car just dies either, it goes into limp home mode. Lots of failures can cause this.
My wifes Astra did this once on an A-road whilst she was doing about 50mph. No big deal, she slowed down and pulled over. The car behind might not have been impressed, but they coped!

I disagree that the ETM failure happens without warning too. I have heard many first hand accounts of owners who have suffered failures describing stalling, rough running etc, sometimes for months before the car gave up and put them into limp home mode. Some people then proceed to ignore this and are surpised when the car actually dies with no hope of continuing.

Sure, some ETMs might die outright without any warning whatsoever. Anybody here actually experienced this? If not, then the matter is still open to debate.

If we're not careful here, we can whip ourselves into a frenzy of outrage that may not actually be justified.

Yes the design of the ETM is poor. Yes it's expensive. Yes it's annoying. There are very few (if any) modern cars out there that don't have such faults appear after 5-6 years. That is my honest opnion.
I wouldn't be in such a rush to leave Volvo ownership (as many appear to be). Frying pan...into fire? Some of the stories I've heard about VWs, BMWs, Renaults etc make me very glad I've chosen a Volvo. So far, 18,000 miles in mine (88,000 total) with no major problems other than a new catalytic converter since the car was new. I'm happy with that. So what if I have to shell out for a new ETM, it's not the end of the world!

[volvo2]

Pete,

We are talking about risk here. You don’t have to have experienced injury before something is considered to be dangerous. Also, what sort of hazard are you going to be when travelling at 20mph all the way home in today’s traffic?

This is particularly ironic given Volvo’s reputation for safety and reliability, which in my mind they are in danger of throwing away. Unless Volvo sorts this out, my next car will certainly be a different make and this is after eight Volvos in my immediate family.

Melvyn

[oilburner]

Why on Earth would you attempt to drive home in limp home mode? Surely the sensible thing to do is to get to a safe stopping position and call for breakdown assistance?

As for risk, it's all relative. I notice that Volvo didn't start making stability control standard equipment until 2003 on the V70. Nobody seems to worry about this, and yet most of the pre-2003 cars are without it. It has been said that stability control could save almost as many lives as seatbelts have, more than ABS and traction control on their own.

Do we complain about the lack of DSTC on 99-01 cars? No, we just get on with it. Volvo have made it standard now and we're all the better for it. However, you could argue that the pre-2003 cars are more dangerous if without DSTC. Do we make out Volvo don't care about our safety because they waited so long to make it standard?

Personally, I am confident that if and when my V70 dies on the third lane of the Motorway at70mph+ (unlikely, but possible) and my family are in the car, I can safely navigate to the hard shoulder without causing undue risk for anyone. If I couldn't cope with the unexpected then it would be me putting me family at risk and not Volvo. There are plenty of things that can and do go wrong. As long as there is a way to recover from them safely without requiring extra-ordinary skill, what is the major issue?

I wish you luck if you try another brand, because the grass is definitely not greener!

p.s. sorry if this seems confrontational, I'm partly trying to play Devil's Advocate here, as I'm not sure the issues have been fully explored.... :)

[volvo2]

Mr Richardson,

Well, that’s certainly becoming confrontational. I don’t think this discussion is any longer constructive so this will be my last posting.

The situation is clear to me. I will finish by simply observing that if you think a defect like this on your car, with all the worry and hassle it entails is acceptable then that is clearly your choice - personally I don’t. If you want to defend the presence of an expensive on-going problem that others can ill-afford and are struggling to resolve (on what I hardly need to say is an expensive car produced by a major manufacturer), then again, your choice.

Regards

Melvyn Smith
PS Others have reported driving home under such circumstances.

[oilburner]

Fair enough.

Shame we couldn't have a discussion on it. I would have liked you (or anyone else) to be able to explain exactly why this defect is such a major issue without resorting to repeating the same dogma.

I tried to explain why I feel it's something I can live with, despite being fustrated that the problem is there, and yes it is a problem and yes it is expensive. It's an expensive car, as you say. Why the surprise that it's expensive to fix when it goes wrong?

Are you sure you can't help me to understand why you think Volvo have to do something about and why you think it is so dangerous, compared to other risks and potential failures?

I would also venture that anyone trying to drive more than a few hundred yards in limp home mode is not only putting themselves at risk but is being anti-social by holding up other traffic. The only sensible and safe thing to do is call a breakdown truck.

[lemaz73]

That's it, my ETM failed two weeks ago, was replaced and almost all paid for since I have an after market warranty but then........the NEW ONE FAILED AS WELL after about 150 miles!!!!! Brakes failed (was only doing 5 miles an hour thank god), engine coughing, probably running on 0.0001 cylinder, etc.
Had to be towed for about 70 miles...and get a new ETM in. With my luck, volvo called me on the day of repair and said that their server was down would I be able to wait a bit longer for the software upgrade????? Hum Hum...
Anyway, so far only done 110 miles and touching wood.
LeMaz.

[sierraman]

Well i'm lost for words after reading Pete's comments.He is obviously very rich or works for Volvo.There can be no other reason for such a cavalier attitude to such a problem.

Are you really saying buy a Volvo......Buy breakdown cover? Buy a Volvo......enjoy the defects? Have you actually read the comments from other members? Then bringing DSTC into it is a joke.ETM failure is putting volvo owners and other drivers at risk whereas DSTC aims to increase traction & stabilize a car in a skidding situation. In any effect the ability to avoid an accident remains in the hands of the driver!

Then you say it could be worse...look at the problems owners have experienced with injectors on 2002-2003 D5's. Why don't you buy a d5 as well.....Treat yourself to those repair bills.

I know you mean well but i just can't agree with some of your ideas.A person who buys a Volvo does so in the knowledge that they are buying a quality car.They realise that servicing and general repairs are going to be more expensive....as it is a luxury car. However when a part proves not to be of suitable quality but infact a very expensive defective part. They have the right to expect help from volvo and it's dealers.Afterall most Volvo owners spend a fortune on over priced maintenance & parts. To then find out that you have a ticking time bomb under the bonnet and no one cares ....is a joke!

You may be happy to spend on out on etm's but i and many others are not. If i wanted an unreliable car i would buy an old banger!

Does anyone actually know if the replacement units are reconditioned? If they are then volvo owners could be replacing these every year or so. Aren't they designed to last for 100,000 miles?

[Chris_Rogers]

It was interesting watching BBC Watchdog tonight.
One subject was the failure of Audi TT dashboards, Audi seem to have agreed to replace these FOC.
Volvo's response to the ETM issue in the UK seems to be perverse in this context.

[oilburner]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not happy to spend the money, I'm just being realistic here.

We all must have seen the Watchdog report on the Audi TT dash failure last night, note how one guy completely lost power on the Motorway due to the fuel guage not reading correctly. He safely made it back to the hard shoulder with no power at all. With a little power it would have been even less drama.

You see, I just think we're blowing this ETM issue out of proportion. Yes it's bad news, yes it's expensive, but it's not the end of the world as some seem to think.

Note that Audi are only replacing the Dash "pod" free for cars up to 5 years old, after that you're on your own! No doubt the replacements are just as useless. There was no mention of re-design either. It just goes to show that other manufacturers really are no better/worse than Volvo.

I just don't buy this attitude that somehow Volvo are treating us all so badly, they're treating us like any other company would, that's how it is.

Sorry I have an opnion which doesn't follow the herd, but I honestly believe that some people are letting issues like ETMs (and D5 injector failures for that matter) spoil their whole enjoyment of the cars, even putting them off the Volvo brand, when really it's just one of those things that happens these days. Modern cars are very complex but generally reliable. When they do go wrong it tends to be expensive and troublesome, fact of life. I hope this situation can improve, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it in the meantime.

And no, I don't work for Volvo, I'm just fed up of people constantly having a go at them, like they expect perfection or something. I'd rather be positive about the car's strengths than spend my time worrying about it's problems.

[PunkDebutante]

You don't think the ETM failure causes injury.... well mine did. I was overtaking when the significantly decreased and almost caused a major accident on the A1. I was then forced off the road and my 8 year old daughter was nearly smashed in the rear. This forcing off the road in order to prevent a collision that would have seriously injured my daughter and I, caused me to go into labour at 22 weeks. I have spent several weeks in hospital over this and am desperately trying to keep my unborn twins alive. This all could have been avoided very easily.

The funny thing in this is, my father is one of the largest Volvo dealers in the United States. He is mortified that, in his words, his daughter and grandchildren were almost kileld due to a problem that is widely reported.

So, you and your argumentative self oilburner, can go to hell. I am one of the many who completely disagree with the handling of the situation from Volvo UK. I understand that after this many years, you can expect a problem. What I will not tolerate is the lashings of abuse Volvo UK is putting upon its customers by refusing to fix a problem that is reported to affect over 400,000 cars worldwide. As my own father said, the Americans will be safe whilst the rest of the world is put in danger.

[oilburner]

I'm sorry to hear that, genuinely. I'm willing to be proven wrong, clearly for you, the ETM failure has had serious consequences.

I wasn't trying to make light of serious incidents like this, only to understand whether or not the issue really is as dangerous as people are making out. It is serious and it is dangerous, I accept that now.

I'm not trying to lay any blame here, but in your case, why did the loss of power force you to leave the road? I frequently have to overtake people and would not want to find myself in the same position as you did - if it's unavoidable then I may have to sell my car - I wouldn't want the same accident to happen to my family, that's for sure.

Perhaps I need to explain where I'm coming from here. I'm worried about my family naturally, we don't have money to burn so I have to hold onto my car. I don't want to do that if it's unsafe however.
So, what I've really been trying to acheive is to understand whether or not the ETM issue really is something to be concerned about.

My apologies for being inconsiderate of other peoples feelings here.

However, if people are coming forward and reporting the potentially and actually dangerous situations that this problem has put them in, then it's a good thing - when peoples lives are being put at risk then Volvo should know about it, and others too.

PunkDebutante, I'm sorry to have caused you offence. Would you consider taking your story to BBC Watchdog? I understand you have far more important things to worry about right now, but if Watchdog takes the story seriously and publicise it, Volvo UK might sit up and take notice. If that avoids what happened to you from happening again, I think that would have to be a good thing. At the moment nobody is taking this seriously (me included until now) because they're not seeing how dangerous the effect can be.

Best wishes to your family. I have been in similarly distressing experiences with my family and know how much these things tear you apart like nothing else can.

[sholtby]

I dont have a Volvo with an ETM but the thing that would annoy me the most is that Volvo have not improved the design. ie they just sell you an ETM with the same potential problem.

Simon

[oilburner]

Yeah - that is pretty poor, no denying that.

I wonder whether this whole thing about Volvo refusing to re-call and redesign is down to the fact that they're the only profitable (non-finance) company in the whole Ford Mo Co empire?

Just doing the re-call on 450,000 cars, never mind the redesign would be enough to wipe out Volvo's profit for some time.

Motives? Volvo make money and Ford leaves them alone to get on with their quirky ways or make no money and end up like SAAB?

I can see why Volvo wouldn't want the latter option, it's not within the interests of Volvo employees to put themselves out of a job. From their point of view, if they can contain the fall out and bad publicity (so far they have really) then they may lose a few customers, but that would be made up for be appealing to new customers with the new cars that are on the way?

Sounds dreadful, but could all be true.

I know Ford themselves were happy to do a re-call on faultly Focuses that cut out with no warning, so I don't think Ford themselves are behind Volvo's policy here.

[Bry_fuel]

So what do newer Volvos have?

My 2003 V70 Bi-fuel has a throttle body that looks horribly like that shown on the vexedvolvo web page. I have assumed till now my right foot was physically connected to something. It's a bit worrying to find it's not.

Is my stalling problem related or is it dirt or an air leak?

Have they changed the design to remove the problem?

[scoffbelly]

As an ETM failure victim, I have read with interest, the postings on the differing attitudes to the ETM failure. My conclusions are that on balance, it should be considered a safety defect that justifies a recall. Hypothetically, If Volvo included an ETM replacement every 80k in the service schedule like Cam belt & tensioners then I would understand. The fact is, the device is expected to be safe and maintenance free for the life of the vehicle. A sudden and unexpected throttle failure is surely of the same magnitude as sudden brake failure or steering failure, ie. It is a cause of major and unexpected loss of control of the vehicle.

My ETM failure happened suddenly and without warning or previous symptoms when I was driving in busy traffic on the M3 doing 60mph. My ETM and ETS lights both came on and it was as if my engine had cut out. I put on my hazards and made a desperate attempt to cross two lanes to the hard shoulder, I caused the vehicles behind me to brake hard and sound their horns including an articulated lorry that locked its brakes and began to jackknife. I was lucky to make it to the hard shoulder in one piece.

I wrote to Volvo uk about the problem and I share with you their reply:-

Thank you for your letter dated 1st January 2006. I am sorry to learn of your dissatisfaction due to the failure of the electronic throttle module of your car and I understand your wish to bring the situation regarding this matter in the USA to our attention. With regard to your comments regarding the specific situation in the USA, where this component is subject to an extended warranty action, please allow me to explain that different markets offer different warranties and this is the same with all manufacturers. I would clarify that, should a potential problem with a component or system be identified for cars within a given model and chassis range, technicians at the factory will assess all relevant information and advise us accordingly of the actions to be taken, if necessary. Volvo Car Corporation, as the manufacturer, determines if such an issue is to be a product safety recall, service campaign or a policy action bulletin in accordance with the guidelines issued by the vehicle inspectorate code of practice. Volvo car corporation had been in discussion with the authorities in California prior to this action being taken, although we have not been advised in instigate any product action in respect of this matter in the UK. Whilst I appreciate your concerns, I regret I am unable to meet the request for reimbursement outlined in your letter

yours sincerely.....

so that's that, maybe a letter to Volvo Sweden suggesting that there is sufficient grounds for a product safety recall would be more worthwhile ?

With regard to Oilburners comment "the redesign would be enough to wipe out Volvo's profit for some time", surely Volvo have grounds to seek compensation from Magnetti Marelli for providing a defect part (unless of course it was Volvo designed ??).

[oilburner]

Good post Scoffbelly. That pretty neatly sums up the situation I guess.


With regard to Oilburners comment "the redesign would be enough to wipe out Volvo's profit for some time", surely Volvo have grounds to seek compensation from Magnetti Marelli for providing a defect part (unless of course it was Volvo designed ??).

Wasn't the rumour that MM have already gone bust? Even if there's a new company trading as Magnetti Marelli now, Volvo AB wouldn't be able to sue them for problem with parts supplied from the previous incarnation of Magnetti Marelli...

Anyway, as you say, Volvo probably designed, or at least specified the part and Volvo knew about it problems as early as 1998, so it's not like Volvo have been taken by surprise on this.

[tj101c70]

I . However I also found that BBA-reman.com offered a remanufacturing service. They charged £250 and repaired the unit in 24 hours. The car seems to run OK and I recommend them to anyone who may need this service.


I have now fitted about 10 genuine ETM units in the last 7-9 months, and getting more,,to the point, that we put a couple of the BBA recon units into stock

Needed them both today, one on a 2000 T5 and another on a 99 V70 2.4, both the recon units would not take the sofeware download !!,
By luck !!!! the local dealer keeps 10 !! units on the shelf, and these were accepted the download with no problems,, 2 ETM to be returned to BBA then

[Chris_Rogers]

As far as I know a 'blank' throttle module can be programmed.
So keeping re-manufactured stock will only be any use if:

You can find a way of 'wiping' the software.

or you use the unit in a car that needs the software already in the unit.

[s40euro]

As long as I remember the story in the States has begun in California with the emission requirements.

Then it was taken to the court by the Federal Goverment with Hidden Warranty argument.

Now what we can do in Europe is (I do not know the legal requirements in UK)to force the Volvocars by sueing by ourselves or trough the consumer agents (or whatever the authority is) or may be the DMV (again do not know the name of department in UK.)

Mine has been changed 10K km. ago by the ex owner. But I think twice while accelarating while my kid is in the car.

I will try my chance in Turkey by trying to find out who has problems and go trough some consumer agencies..

[ascott1]

http://www.magnetimarelli.com/ boasts of its long history since 1919, but does link this at the bottom of its home page -

"After Market
Products and Services
------------------------------------------------------------
Magneti Marelli has divested in 2002
its A.M. activities to RGZ Group"

Google shows a site at http://www.magnetimarelli.net/MM/GB/ for 'Aftermarket'

It does look like a Volvo-specified problem, though, I suspect (though not an expert) in EU product liability terms Volvo/Ford are probably liable... but not as easy to sue as in the US.


Wasn't the rumour that MM have already gone bust? Even if there's a new company trading as Magnetti Marelli now, Volvo AB wouldn't be able to sue them for problem with parts supplied from the previous incarnation of Magnetti Marelli...

Anyway, as you say, Volvo probably designed, or at least specified the part and Volvo knew about it problems as early as 1998, so it's not like Volvo have been taken by surprise on this.

When did Ford buy Volvo (1999?).

[Mark Blowers]

Ouch I have a 2000 v70 T5 - guess what the ETM has failed - I am UK do I have any recourse for action as it seems to be a recognised fault

[oilburner]

You can visit your friendly local dealer and try and get a contribution? It might help if the car has full Volvo service history.

Otherwise, you're on your own.


As for me, I've decided to sell my V70, as much as I love it because I'm fed up of this whole issue and the risk it poses to me and my family.

I'm trading it in tomorrow against a nearly new Vauxhall Vectra. Not in the same league, obviously - but no major faults, certainly not safety related. What did go wrong on the early cars has been fixed via recalls, even when it's not a safety issue....who says big old bad GM is so terrible?

So that's it. One less Volvo owner thanks to Volvo's stubbornness over this whole mess.

I'm back to owning Vauxhall's knowing it'll be a mostly trouble free experience (we've had 6 of them in our family recently) with affordable dealer servicing and parts etc.

I may return to Volvo one day if they can learn to put the customer before profits.

[STE-MAL]

I may return to Volvo one day if they can learn to put the customer before profits.


It's a shame to lose someone to another mark, but I can't say I blame you. This is a problem that need's a fix. I blame Ford. Quantity over quality! I wouldn't be shocked if they have said "well most ETM's are failing out of warrenty so let's just leave it". Just my opinion.

[bryant_andy]

Having read this thread it now looks very unlikley that I will buy the superb 2.4 140BHP Nov 1999 V70 I have been offered.

I wanted to switch from a 54 reg Ford Focus C-Max TDCI to the V70 Volvo as I don't much faith with Ford, but it looks like there is not much difference

I am suprised as I thought that Volvo stood for safety & quality ! Not so sure now.

Andy

[oilburner]

Don't blame you at all Andy.

I wouldn't be surprised to see market values of 99-01 cars fall dramatically if more people cotton onto this fault, so if you've got one, be prepared to lose lots of money on it or stick with it despite the ETM troubles...not sure which is worse! :(

[sholtby]

Was the faulty ETM fitted to any other makes of car?

Thanks
Simon

[bryant_andy]

As I mentioned earlier I am looking at buying a 2000 model V70 140 BHP Auto.

I am however worried about the ETM problem. So I called 4 independent dealers from around the country and spoke to there service departments. All of them said that the ETM is a problem, but not a big one! Local dealer said they changed 2 last year. They also said that the total cost was £400.

Is it just a case that this forum like others I am on focus on the doom & gloom of car ownership?

Andy

[oilburner]

As I mentioned earlier I am looking at buying a 2000 model V70 140 BHP Auto.

I am however worried about the ETM problem. So I called 4 independent dealers from around the country and spoke to there service departments. All of them said that the ETM is a problem, but not a big one! Local dealer said they changed 2 last year. They also said that the total cost was £400.

Is it just a case that this forum like others I am on focus on the doom & gloom of car ownership?

Andy

That's what I thought, so raised the question a few pages back. I was convinced enough to sell mine, others will be happy to deal with it. It's always going to be down to whether or not you think it's dangerous or too expensive or troublesome...if you can live with it then cool.

Too right it's easy to focus on the negative things. The V70 is a great car, shame about Volvo's customer "care" though. I'm missing my V70 already after 1 day, but I'm sure not missing the threat of sudden failure in the middle of overtaking/fast motorway work/busy junctions etc...

[volvo2]

BBC Watchdog is presently looking into this.

Can I suggest that those of us who are concerned immediately write to Watchdog by going on-line to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/feedback/ ; or write to: BBC Watchdog, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TS; or telephone: 020 8535 1000

In a recent communication with the program they told me that they need more individuals to make contact with them before they can follow up the issue (e.g. apparently they had 50 contacts regarding the Audi problem).

From what I have seen, if the BBC gets involved then we just might get a result.

Melvyn

[PunkDebutante]

As I mentioned earlier I am looking at buying a 2000 model V70 140 BHP Auto.

I am however worried about the ETM problem. So I called 4 independent dealers from around the country and spoke to there service departments. All of them said that the ETM is a problem, but not a big one! Local dealer said they changed 2 last year. They also said that the total cost was £400.

Andy

My dealership in Peterborough originally quoted me £400 but that is just the part and not including labour and software. The total was £742. I am surprised that your Volvo dealership said they have only changed 2 in the last year. My research shows the average dealership is doing over 4 ETM replacements a month and actually keep the part in stock now.

I am so cross with Volvo UK's blase attitude about it. Buy the car but realise that you may end up like me and shelling out over £1400 in one month on the car and this is a car that has been very well looked after and has full Volvo Service History.

[bryant_andy]

My dealership in Peterborough originally quoted me £400 but that is just the part and not including labour and software. The total was £742. I am surprised that your Volvo dealership said they have only changed 2 in the last year. My research shows the average dealership is doing over 4 ETM replacements a month and actually keep the part in stock now.

I am so cross with Volvo UK's blase attitude about it. Buy the car but realise that you may end up like me and shelling out over £1400 in one month on the car and this is a car that has been very well looked after and has full Volvo Service History.

Keeping the C-Max TDCI does seem the best option, shame as I love the V70's:Banane44:

Andy

[scoffbelly]

Following Melvyn's post - Yes, BBC Watchdog emailed me today after looking at this forum thread. I subsequently phoned them back and had a chat about these issues.

They've asked me to send them copies of my ETM bill and the reply I received from Volvo following my complaint as they are building a case for a Watchdog feature. So please, please contact Watchdog. This is our chance to get this out in the open and pursuade Volvo UK to act fairly in response to this issue, as they finally did in the USA.

Watchdog by going on-line to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/feedback/ ; or write to: BBC Watchdog, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TS; or telephone: 020 8535 1000

[sierraman]

Hi
Just to let you know that i have also submitted my details to Watchdog.

I also contacted The Times last week but they don't appear to be interested.

Lets hope Watchdog highlight this problem soon
Regards

[oilburner]

I would love to add my names to the list of complaints to Watchdog, however I got shot of my car before the ETM failed. I doubt they'd be interested in the unproven warning signs I was experiencing...

I do have a copy of an email from Volvo on the subject though, not disputing the problem, just saying they're not planing any action on the component right now.

Maybe Watchdog would be interested in that?

[volvo2]

Yes, let's please send everything we have to Watchdog.

By the way, I think the contact web page I gave for Watchdog is incorrect (http://www.bbc.co.uk/feedback/ ). What they do have is a form that we can fill in on the following web-page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/contact/index.shtml

I can't seem to find an e-mail address for Watchdog on their web-site.

Melvyn

[oilburner]

Righty ho, I've sent my complaint off.

I won't help me much now, but I'd still like to see Volvo put this right. They deserve a bloody nose for this mess. I'm sure the trade-in value of my car was severely hit, are people in the trade already wising up to the fact that 99-01 cars are too much trouble?

[Loonstar27]

this does not make for happy reading. I picked up a 2000 V70 T5 yesterday......am sincerely hoping that there is nothing seriously wrong with it.

Like most, I bought it because of Volvo's appearingly good reputation of building solid reliable cars and now I hope I've not made a large and expensive mistake...

Jamie

[tedm]

Has anybody had a problem with 3rd party extended warranty cover on the ETM?

I have cover on my wifes 43k 2000 V70 T5 that specifically covers the throttle body. So I'm presuming that there will not be a problem should the problem arrise (which I'm sure it will).
12 months premium was £370, and obviously covers a load of other stuff on the car.

I was thinking of selling the car (whcih we've had from new) but realistically it's A LOT of car for what it's now worth. Still love my XC90 though :)

[scoffbelly]

Following Jamie's post, expensive bills aside, the real issue is getting Volvo UK to acknowledge there is a problem with the ETM and to act fairly in response to this.

If you have extended warranty, either Volvo's, warranty direct or similar, then I can see no reason at all why a failed ETM would not be covered and as such "expensive bills" will be paid by them. The real issue is that of safety and what happens if your ETM fails and your throttle cuts out in the middle of a busy motorway contraflow. This is what we need Volvo to address and Watchdog to put to them. I suggested a product safety recall, a refund to everyone who's ETM has already failed together with a service bulletin and recall letter to owners to replace the ETM's every 60k or so or ideally fit a better designed replacement module.

I chose not to renew or take out an extended warranty, which in hindsight, I maybe wish I had if I had known about the ETM problem before mine failed, however, on investigation it seems the warranties are only valid if your car is regularly serviced by Volvo or a VAT registered independent. So if you do home maintenance or have someone who does the work for you who isn't VAT registered then your warranty isn't valid. It appears though that the ETM is currently not part of any preventative maintenance service procedure apart from checking diag codes ?

I was quoted £320 by warranty direct for an extended warranty, but as my 2000 C70 has now just clocked 100,000 (ETM failed at 93k), they would now pay 100% labour costs (My Volvo main dealer ETM labour replacement charge was £136.50 + VAT) but only pay 50% of any part replacement (ETM module, gasket and Software reload for me was £412.45 + VAT). I guess it's like any optional insurance, you weigh up the risks versus the cost.

[volvo2]

PunkDebutante,

I thought the horrific incident you described on the forum involving the failure of your ETM was terrible. Given that the BBC program Watchdog is presently investigating the failure of these ETMs. I wonder if you would consider writing to them and describing what happened? If enough people report the problems they have had together with the unhelpful support they received from Volvo UK, we just might be able to get some justice. If you would rather not get involved that would of course also be perfectly understandable.

Melvyn

[scimitarf1]

My Dec 1998 T5 went into limp mode in early Jan and appears fixed after the ETM was changed. The replacement part number used (87814786) is the same as that mentioned on the Vexed Volvo site but the models mentioned start in 1999?

Is it possible that my otherwise well behaved T5 has the same problem that the later models have?

I spoke to Volvo customer disservice and they were aware of the problem and exceptionally rude - sticking to the line about the US being different (different part number?). I was not allowed to speak to the manager and was told to contact the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. Does anyone else have any experience with this body?

Really appreciate any help with this.

Will

[volvo2]

I have a 2002 V70 with the faulty ETM, which was only supposed to affect up to 2001.

Can I suggest that you report your experience to Watchdog

Melvyn

[GrahamB]

Does anyone know whether Volvo keep a central record of such things as ETM changes? At 115k on my 2000 V70 Classic 170 (purchased at 100k) I would like to know whether it was changed earlier? No problems with mine so far. (Perhaps we need a mole in Volvo?) Trying to look on the bright side, can anyone quote really high mileage without failure?

[oilburner]

Any work done at a Volvo dealer will be recorded on their central computer, accessible from any dealer.

You can also do a visual check of your ETM, a white sticker indicates an original, a yellow one shows a replacement. At least, that's how it works in theory....

[sierraman]

Hi
I had a phone call from someone at watchdog concerning the ETM problems. It was mentioned that it may be included in Next Monday's Program which is good news. I guess everyone else has probably had phonecalls as well. But if anyone else has a volvo suffering with this problem...please can you contact watchdog asap.
Thanks

[sierraman]

Me Again
Having re-read my previous message i have noticed i have made a mistake about the day Watchdog is on BBC1. It is of course Tuesday at 7pm (had a busy day) Anyway as i said before. Please anyone who has views or technical knowledge about this fault.
Please can you contact Watchdog & help with this report. Also if you are aware that this fault is also on other volvo models ......2002 v70? etc etc ...please can you contribute as well.
Cheers

[the_boy]

My car is a December 1998 C70 T5 and also has the ETM fault although I have yet to have it replaced as I can't afford it at the moment to be honest..the car has done 99, 000 miles so is due to fail.

As far as I know late 98 also had the ME7 unit fitted.

When I last had the car serviced there were 2 ETM faults in the ECU. The problem was they couldn't fix it at the time as the only people who could were Volvo which mean't going back and being without the car for a few days etc etc. So the codes were cleared.

Since then the car surges and stalls intermittently. The ETS light has flashed up at least twice since then. Fingers crossed it hasn't stuck when I've had the throttle open but I know it's got to be done sooner rather than later.

I did get a call from Watchdog who asked if I could drive down this Thursday but because I live in Tyneside it was too late in the day to sort something out. In addition the thing is very eratic, I couldn't promise that when I went down the thing would play up on queue.

Fingers crossed though watchdog do get something sorted for this. This is a bill I could well do without :(

[scoffbelly]

The BBC have confirmed the ETM issue is being covered on this episode bar any last minute legal hitches.

Thanks to all the UK "Vexed Warriors" who have helped bring this matter to Watchdog's attention and to Don Willson http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/Who_is_Don.html, creator of the www.vexedvolvo.org site.

[Andy_Gibson]

Sounds like it's just failed on my dad's 2001 V70 2.4 as well, it's at the dealers as I speak, should know a bit more on Monday

[STE-MAL]

That is a GREAT result!!! Fingers crossed they will sort it for you guy's:)

[Andy_Gibson]

Sounds like it's just failed on my dad's 2001 V70 2.4 as well, it's at the dealers as I speak, should know a bit more on Monday

UPDATE..............

Just got the car back from the dealer, it wasn't the ETM fault at all but the electronic accelerator pedal was faulty....bill was still £280 :baring_teeth:

[dhphoto]

Hi guys, I'm new here so be gentle!

I've read all the posts and as I have a 2002 170bhp V70 I wonder if I should be worried or not?

I can only find one reference to the models after 2001 having a problem

What does the team think?

David

[PunkDebutante]

I just wanted to say thank you to this forum and especially to Rajan from Watchdog. My husband filmed for the Watchdog story since I am on bedrest with our twins and hopefully now we will get some resolution to this problem. No one should be in a dangerous situation because Volvo UK wants to bury their heads. My daughter and I could have died and Volvo didn't care. So much for being safe and reliable.

[oilburner]

Saw tonights Watchdog and thought they were a bit soft on Volvo to be honest. A re-call isn't nearly good enough - a re-design is still required, the Watchdog team got caught up on solutions to help with the cost and not with the failure mode! As for free software upgrade - who's Volvo trying to fool? Watchdog should have rubbished that.

Watchdog also mentioned that it "may be a rare fault", 94% before 100,000 miles is hardly rare!

So, nothing's really changed or going to by the looks of it.

Also, I can't believe the cheek of Volvo of trying to make out that they take the reports seriously and are investigating now. As if they hadn't heard of the problem before - which we all know is untrue.

Pah!

[Muscas]

Interesting to see how a software upgrade can overcome a mechnical defect of this nature, sounds like RUBBISH!

Warranties are OK but what is really needed is a re-manufactured/re-designed ETM and a recall to replace the current faulty component.




Patrick

[PunkDebutante]

A software upgrade will keep the ones going that have been replaced but will not fix the original ETM's... or at least this is what has been told to me. Hopefully Volvo will get its act together like Audi did after the watchdog story.

[Muscas]

Have you any idea what the software change does?


Patrick

[PunkDebutante]

Unfortunately no I don't. And I do hope it works for people but it doesn't change the fact that I have paid out over £800 for this problem to own a car I feel damn unsafe in. I refuse to allow my daughter in it and am terrified of putting my newborns in it. It goes completely against why we bought the car in the first place.

[PunkDebutante]

Hi guys, I'm new here so be gentle!

I've read all the posts and as I have a 2002 170bhp V70 I wonder if I should be worried or not?

I can only find one reference to the models after 2001 having a problem

What does the team think?

David

I should think you would be okay. Volvo UK originally told me to sell my 2000 and buy a 2002 if I didn't want to have this problem. :baring_teeth:

[Agostino]

Hi.
Has anyone seen "WatchDog" tonight. They did a piece on this problem, and got Volvo Uk to admit that there is one.

[pyaap]

I too encountered a similar issue when I bought my very first T4 back in 1997. It had the inherent erratic idling issue which causes the cars to stall unexpectedly, has plagued Phase I cars and I too was very nearly involved in a serious accident on account of that. The difference was, VCUK put their hands up, admitted there was a problem (which I have in writing!) and replaced the entire car at no cost to me. Hence, as far as I was concerned, the issue was resolved and I went on to purchase a further 7 brand new Volvo cars over the years. Hence, I cannot help but feel that should this matter have been handled better, it probably would not have reached the current state.

One thing I will say is the level of customer service from VCUK has gotten progressively worse over the years. When I had the problem with my car, it was handled very professionally and everyone I met at Marlow was more than helpful. When I was told to expect a phone call, I received the call, even if it was to say that they were still trying to sort things out. When I have called in recent years, I cannot help but feel that the responses have been more arrogant and challenging and this has to be either down to the nature of the staff, or a simple fact that they have been inadequately trained as customer services personnel. I really do feel sorry for those of you with this ETM problem. Going on my recent experience, I think there's going to be a lot of "passing the buck" before anything is done. Perhaps they hope that you'll get so frustrated that you'll just give up, so DON'T!! :baring_teeth:

[PunkDebutante]

Try telling that to Volvo UK. My husband and I just rang them and even though we told them he was the one on the show, the rep said there is no problem and Volvo UK would be doing nothing for the owners.

[bmason2000]

As a concerned owner of a 2000 XC70 with 112,000 miles, we all need to hassle Volvo until they cave in. Keep ringing them on, 0845 756 4636. It’s called their customer relations dept. Don’t let them get away with this.
CALL NOW 0845 756 4636:baring_teeth:

[kevham]

I saw Watchdog tonight and I'm now very worried by this.
I've had my 2000 V70 2.4 for 2 and a half years and it has exhibited the signs of a faulty ETM intermittently since winter 2003 (poor cold starting, rough idle at startup etc). I first reported it to the dealer whilst the car was still under warranty in December 2003 and was told that they couldn't find anything wrong.
I had never considered this to be a potential safety issue until now (just a winter annoyance) but I am now very, very concerned after reading this thread (especially since my wife is 7 months pregnant).
I tried contacting the number given by Watchdog tonight and after 20minutes on hold, I gave up. I will be contacting my Volvo dealer tomorrow and will be pursuing a contribution to a replacement ETM on the basis that the fault was first reported during the warranty period.
If I'm not successful (and I don't have much hope), the car will be getting traded (probably for a Honda Accord) and I will NEVER buy another Volvo.
Volvo's reputation is totally dependent on safety (their cars have never had 'cool' appeal) and the way they are handling appears to be appalling.

[PunkDebutante]

I would be worried. My 8 year old daughter and my two unborn daughters and I were almost killed in our supposedly safe Volvo. Volvo UK still doesn't care and when my husband called tonight he was told "what do you want us to do about it."

[g-a-r-y]

Hi, I too have had my ETM replaced just 3 weeks ago:Not_Impressed: I did a whole lot of work before giving in by reading up on Vexed posts and this forum, then printing off the legal result in the states and the post from the guy who had his replaced in the UK FOC as part of a 'Goodwill' arrangement. I presented the evidence to the dealer and also insisted my local dealer phone Volvo Customer services, which they did.. the outcome........ Volvo refused to pay any part of the diagnostics, ETM replacement or software upgrade fees:sad_smile: .. total cost to me, the usual £650(ish). I own a 2001 V70 Torslanda btw (the cheapskates version ;-) ).

I've written to Volvo Customer Services tonight via their online facility asking for a full refund and informing them I will be contacting Watchdog after my expected return phone call (due this Friday according to the automated response) to tell them of my customer experience with this issue.

not hopeful that I'll get a positive outcome to be honest but worth another go whilst the focus is on Volvo.

cheers, Gary

[dhphoto]

I should think you would be okay. Volvo UK originally told me to sell my 2000 and buy a 2002 if I didn't want to have this problem. :baring_teeth:

That is interesting as I didn't think they had admitted a problem

David

[volvo2]

Kevham,

Volvo UK told me they will not replace the unit after the guarantee period, even if you report initial problems while still under guarantee. They say the unit has to actually fail and be replaced within the guarantee period. What a rip off!

Come to think of it, I am not sure this part meets the Sale of Goods Act (as amended) as it is neither of satisfactory quality nor fit for the intended purpose.

Melvyn

[ShadeTek]

Have you any idea what the software change does?


Patrick

Software upgrade = flim flam delay tactics.

[sholtby]

As the fault is with the 'carbon?' tracks within the etm being worn by the wiper arms a software update will do nothing!
Anyone know how they fixed the problem on later cars? Thicker tracks that dont wear as quick possibly?

Simon

[PunkDebutante]

Does anyone actually think this will amount to anything? I was hopeful until my husband's telephone call with Volvo UK after the show.

[kevham]

Kevham,

Volvo UK told me they will not replace the unit after the guarantee period, even if you report initial problems while still under guarantee. They say the unit has to actually fail and be replaced within the guarantee period. What a rip off!

Come to think of it, I am not sure this part meets the Sale of Goods Act (as amended) as it is neither of satisfactory quality nor fit for the intended purpose.

Melvyn

Doesn't surprise me but I'm going to put a lot of pressure on my dealer. After all, the dealer has much more to lose than Volvo UK if I chose to sell and stop giving them several hundred pounds every 9 months or so for servicing. If they can't see that and contribute to the cost than so be it - I'll get the Honda!

Shame really 'cause it's a great car otherwise.

[pyaap]

Does anyone actually think this will amount to anything? I was hopeful until my husband's telephone call with Volvo UK after the show.

I think if you exert sufficient pressure on VCUK "en masse", then they will have to respond in some way or the other. I think part of the problem with such issues is there are numerous complaints on internet fora such as this, but it does not really go much beyond that. There's a much better chance of getting something done now in a large group, individual efforts will be far more difficult.

[Muscas]

Oh, I remember Volvo customer services, I spoke with them about my cracked Alloy wheel........

Patrick

[MissDMeanor]

I feel for you all that have/had this problem. I'm very surprised that Volvo aren't being honourable, in my opinion.

Good luck with getting a result:Banane44:

[doakey]

I to am having problems with the ets, it has nearly caused two accidents, one on he M40 when in the fast lane and the car suddenly reduced speed to 30mph, and another time when going round a corner the engine cut out and I lost the power steering, consequently the car went straight on, it is all very frightening for a pensioner. the garage have changed the ets, and it was great for a while, but then it has started doing it again, other faults it produces are tick over when starting is erratic, the kick down sometimes changes twice into such a low gear the car loses speed instead of gaining, when starting from stationary, it is a job to get going with a smooth take off
David Oakey:huepfen024:

[TJMurphy]

I'm seeing conflicting info on what models are included in this - can anyone enlighten me? The vexed site says 2002 S60's are included on one page and on another only talks about up to 2001 cars. I remember when I was researching the S60 (in 2001) I was advised on various forums to order a 2002 model as (1) the throttle response was "snappier" due to a change and (2) the car would come with DSTC instead of normal STC. I'd been assuming that (1) is actually the newer model of ETM (Bosch?) and therefore my car is not at risk but I'd be interested to know for sure - can I tell from a visual inspection under the bonnet? Car's going in for 72,000 mile service next week but it's shown no signs of problems so far (touch wood) ...
And, does this really fail without warning or do they always give advance warning (rough idling , poor starting) as others have noted? Not that I would have known before reading this what the advance signs meant!

[scoffbelly]

Having seen the watchdog show, at the moment apart from raising awareness, it does seem that very little progress has been made at all apart from an offer to upgrade the software.

It will be interesting to hear what actions are taken by Volvo to those who phone their hotline number given after the show. As another posting says - they said "what do you want us do do about it".

I await Volvo's call or letter to me after the filming, as Watchdog said they would - will keep you posted.

But what's this....."Software upgrade only available to those who've already had their ETM replaced" this beggars belief as surely it is those who have yet to experience what I went through that need the software upgrade first ?

I am trying to work out exactly what this Software upgrade is, as Simon says, The problem is not software it's the wiper arms wearing through, so I agree, how is a software upgrade going to help ?

I can speculate that maybe all the upgrade will do is make your ETS warning light stay on as soon as there are diag codes logged rather than only coming on when the unit fails. I guess you could then take it to get fixed before it packs up completely, in which case why can it not apply to everyone and not just those who've already had a replacement ? It doesn't make sense to me at the moment and needs clarification.

A recall or USA warranty extension in the UK still seems to be the only real solution.

[Snowdon]

To all those affected by ETM issues I sincerely hope that now it has gone on Watchdog the momentum will grow, as it looks as in this case Volvo/Ford aren’t listening to what there customers are saying (SAFETY, UNPREDICTABILITY AND FINANCIAL LOSS THROUGH A MISSCONCEIVED DESIGN) without which they would not exist, just look at the USA market.
Eventually through the determination already shown and revising your strategy Corporations eventually succumb.
I wish you all well and a successful conclusion to this whole mess.

[kevham]

Following an e-mail I sent to Volvo last night, I received an e-mail from Volvo this morning (full text below). I am guessing this is a stock response but it is interesting for the following reasons:

1. They are NOT accepting that the problem is a safety issue (although their logic seems flawed to me).
2. They are trying to fob us off with the software upgrade. I suspect that this will only remove the fallback to 'limp' mode (and hence remove the potential for the issue to be called a safety issue). I cannot see how alteration of the software will in any way fix a degraded potentiometer track (which is what Vexedvolvo.org claims is the cause of failure). This suggests that Volvo UK either don't understand the failure mode or are not accepting it.
3. They are saying that other things can cause some of the symptoms (which I'm sure is true). However, can we have faith in the dealers to accurately diagnose the ETM?
4. Finally, they seem to be conceeding that they will take into account any previous notification of the problem if it proves that the ETM is faulty. I'll reserve judgement.

My car is being picked up by the dealer on Friday (credit to them - they called me at 8.30am today and offered to pick it up but claimed to be completely unaware of Watchdog or any ETM issues). Bear in mind when reading all this that my car's ETM has NOT failed - it is only exhibiting poor starting and rough idle on an intermittent basis.

VOLVO E-MAIL:
Thank you for your e-mail below. Volvo Car UK Limited would like to
arrange for your car to be upgraded with new software to improve the
performance of the ETS. We are due to have updated software within the
next few months and will be in contact nearer the time to arrange a
convenient time for the software to be installed. Volvo does not
consider this matter to be safety related in that the vehicle will only
use limp mode under very specific conditions to prevent damage to the
car and more importantly allow the driver to stay in control of their
vehicle albeit that there is reduced acceleration and top speed thereby
allowing the car to be driven to a position of safety. There are varying
levels of limp, depending on driving style some drivers will notice
little difference, whilst others may detect a slight performance
reduction.

If you are currently experiencing concerns such as the warning messages
of 'check engine' or 'ETS' or even experience uneven engine idling
before the upgrade is available, please do take your car to your local
Volvo Authorised dealer who can diagnose if the symptoms are related to
the ETS. It is possible that other issues may exhibit similar
characteristics but in any event the car should be taken to an
Authorised Volvo dealer or repair centre to ensure correct diagnosis.

Should your dealer determine that the issues that you are experiencing
are related to the ETM then naturally we will take into account your
contact with us and any previously reported experience when determining
our level of responsibility.

Thank you for your contact, I hope that this reassures you as to the
action we wish to take to restore your confidence in Volvo and our
product.

[After_Shock]

My efforts to defend Volvo and prove an insight into whats happening have obviously been taken far too seriously so I will just be quiet on the matter.

[Welshboyglos]

Oh My God

After reading this thread today I am now climbing the walls.
Guess who took the V70 to the dealer today? And guess what the suspected fault is from the symtoms in these posts?

Thanks to Telewest Replay I have just watched Watchdog and that was a cop out!
How did I know that it was on yesterday? When waiting for them to book the car in I saw an Email. It was from Volvo UK to their dealers advising that Volvo would be on Watchdog and the action they should take if people contacted the dealers.

Alas I could read no more as a colleague needed to read it and it was taken from the lady's desk. There is proof that they knew YESTERDAY about what was happening so they should not have advised the post above that they knew nothing.

We told our dealer a few weeks ago of the problems we were experiencing and they plugged it in, and said "There's no fault". Well there wouldnt be would there, The unit won't log a fault til it failed.

They asked us to leave it with them overnight (hence why they have the car today) and we get it back on Friday. We'll see what they say.

I think that there is one hell of a cover up from Volvo. And so they would, they don't want to have to pay out do they.

We'll see..........

[After_Shock]

My efforts to defend Volvo and prove an insight into whats happening have obviously been taken far too seriously so I will just be quiet on the matter.

[scoffbelly]

I am confused, what is different about UK ETM's compared to USA ETMs. Did I hear Watchdog say 40,000 have failed in the USA ?

If there's "almost no problem in the UK" why didn't Volvo explain this to Watchdog and put our minds at rest ?

There is also an earlier post on this thread that reads

I have now fitted about 10 genuine ETM units in the last 7-9 months, and getting more......

I do concede that yes the dealers have been dragged into what is actually Volvo's problem. My Volvo Garage was indeed excellent when my ETM failed, they replaced it the same day when I had no appointment, and gave me a loan car for free whilst it was being attended to.

[Welshboyglos]

Thanks for the post aftershock

your comment of "Please next time you speak to the service department at your dealer ask them honestly how many cars they have had in and had to replace ETM's on in the last year"

When we took our car in a few weeks ago detailing the "symptoms" of the fault our dealer said that there is no fault (as no fault code is stored).

However the same conversation with the ex Volvo mechanic now set up on his own as an Independant, advised that the ETM be investigated straight away.

My dealer will NOT advise how many they have replaced and even if they did I would not believe them as if they don't diagnose the fault in the first place why the hell would they replace them?

I can't even get an answer as to when my car will be ready when it's there never mind gleaning information from them regarding a fault that could cost Volvo dear.

I have worked for similar companies and these releases to branches or dealerships aren't there to stop the front line staff look like "tits" (to coin a phrase) they are there to minimise the damage to the BRAND and NOTHING ELSE!

Different memo's will be circulated as soon as the dust has settled - message me privately if you can prove me wrong. Even better get the email sent yesterday and POST IT HERE for all of us to read - then we'll see EXACTLY what Volvo UK's official line is through its network of its dealers.

I'm sure we'd all love to know

[After_Shock]

My efforts to defend Volvo and prove an insight into whats happening have obviously been taken far too seriously so I will just be quiet on the matter.

[PunkDebutante]

Aftershock,

As an employee of Volvo I commend you for defending them but you are seriously proving that you know nothing about Volvo's and the ETM failure and part. You are honestly making yourself look like a real twit. I have every internal document circulating about this ETM (Thank you daddy!) and you obviously are only see are very small part of what is being circulated as you are obviously a very junior employee.

What dealership do you work for? I would love to know as you seem to be able to access your manager's computer which is against Data Protection laws.

As soon as Volvo puts a part in their car with their badge on it, it becomes their responsbility. That isn't my take on it, that is the law. Volvo should be suing the manufacturer of the part, not us as it Volvo's stained repuation on the line.

[PunkDebutante]

One televised problem on TV which has only happened due to the problem that actually exists in the US has made people paranoid!

There is no cover up as theres nothing to cover up! Please next time you speak to the service department at your dealer ask them honestly how many cars they have had in and had to replace ETM's on in the last year, theres almost no problem in the UK.

Yes Volvo sent an E-mail to volvo dealers advising them as you say that Volvo would be on watchdog and informing us of what it was about so we didnt look like a bunch of tits if someone phoned up asking about it.

That is not true that there isn't a cover-up. I have every internal document to prove their has been one. So, you still don't know what you are taking about.

[mraldonnelly]

Surely not every car that's had a replacement ETM has had a Bosch unit fitted? I believe that the Bosch unit can only be fitted to P2 cars, P1 cars can only be fitted with a new unit which will suffer the same problems again.

Regards

Andy

[mraldonnelly]

Oh, and i don't think there's a cover up at all.

There will be two purposes of the e-mails. As After Shock says, to keep staff informed but also for damage limitation. There's a big difference between a cover up and damage limitation.

Regards

Andy

[doctorstephen]

Hi chaps and chapesses,
I only knew of this news yesterday when my friend mentioned what was said on watchdog. I have been reading through all the threads this morning and my heart sinks. We have only recently took delivery of a new XC90, is this issue of ETM going to affect this model? This is my wife's car primarily, as she often shifts the kids to and fro from school, nursery.....etc. I don't wish to see her car fail as some of you have experienced.

Steve

[Al115]

There IS indeed a problem with the UK ETMs. I have had mine replaced twice because of failure, the second unit failed approx 12,000 miles after it was fitted! Rubbish.

[mraldonnelly]

Hi chaps and chapesses,
I only knew of this news yesterday when my friend mentioned what was said on watchdog. I have been reading through all the threads this morning and my heart sinks. We have only recently took delivery of a new XC90, is this issue of ETM going to affect this model? This is my wife's car primarily, as she often shifts the kids to and fro from school, nursery.....etc. I don't wish to see her car fail as some of you have experienced.

Steve

I think this problem only affects cars up to model year 2002 so you're XC90 shouldn't be affected.

[volvo2]

After-Shock,

As a consumer, your comments seem very odd. Without wishing to appear paranoid, have you been tasked to make these remarks? I certainly hope not, that would be far too sinister.

I guess it is natural that you feel an affinity towards your employer. Believe it or not, I also feel loyalty to Volvo. I have had good service over the years and have no doubt that the older Volvo models (particularly the 240 and perhaps 740) were superior to their competition. That's assuming one values safety, durability and reliability above handling and high speed performance. Though as I and others have said, the ETM problem is real and unsatisfactory and not what one would expect from a quality brand.

Incidentally, the increased problem in the USA maybe caused by driving conditions causing increased localised wear on the potentiometer track - American roads are straight and very long.

Melvyn Smith
PS Incidentally, why is there a tendency on these forums to hide behind pseudonyms? At best this seems somewhat impersonal.
PPS Sorry for the duplicate posting. I also posted this message on the S80 site where there is a similar thread - as there is on the S60 site.

[Rich5ltr]

because of all of this crap on TV suddenly everyone in the country is an expert and can self diagnose there cars so straight away everyone has a faulty ETM.:laughing-smiley-008

[PunkDebutante]

After speaking with a senior manager at Volvo UK, Aftershock is forbidden from writing on these forums, even if to help someone. It is something that can cause employment dismissal. This senior manager is watching this forum and reading our comments and agrees that Aftershock's comments are against their employment policy. I really hope winding the Volvo consumer up was worth it Aftershock since you are breaking your employment agreement.

[pyaap]

After_Shock,

It is precisely this sort of approach towards customers which has gotten Volvo into the mess it currently faces and as a Volvo employee working in a Volvo dealership, you really need to learn to be a little more sensitive towards customers. Alright, you work in a dealership which runs several other franchises and claim to have only seen a handful of such issues. Could you kindly enquire and then post up how many ETMs have been replaced, across the entire Volvo dealer network in the UK, since 1999 when the ME7 cars started coming in?

In any case, why are you stating that the parts supplier to Volvo should be held accountable for this; when a customer buys a new or select used Volvo, who is their contractual partner, the supplying dealer or a company in Italy which supplied one of the engine components? All customers want is some re-assurance either that their car is not affected by this issue and if it unfortunately is, that something will be done about it. Common sense would tell that this sort of “all guns blazing” approach would only be met by the sorts of responses that it already has.

Afterall, this case has been now investigated and brought to public attention by BBC Watchdog. You will be surprised how much some car owners will put up with, thinking that something is just an occasional glitch, especially if it does not put them in any danger. When I experienced the hesitation issue with my Phase 1 T4, I was similarly assured by VCUK that it was not an issue affecting cars elsewhere in the UK and it was only after exhaustive research and checks on my part that an admission was made in writing, which I still possess. Following on from that, I’ve lost count of the numbers of T4 owners whom I’ve spoken to and asked if they have experienced the problem, only to be told that they do, but that they just put it down to a “quirk” of some sort. I, on the other hand, almost had a bus ram into my door when the engine suddenly stalled on me when moving off at a round-a-bout so it was something I did not forget and would not accept. However, as I said in a previous post, my issue was resolved well beyond my expectations and some of the Volvo staff I dealt with at the time, have now become personal friends. It was the exceptional manner in which my issue was handled, which prompted me to go on to buy more new Volvos and I will continue to do so.

If you are so sure that there is no problem, and your company will support you on this, then may I suggest you write, on your company letterhead, a letter signed by yourself, to BBC Watchdog and state, as categorically as you have on both this and other UK based fora, that it is not a common problem in the UK. Perhaps they will then get the re-assurance they need that no further investigation is required.

[mraldonnelly]

After speaking with a senior manager at Volvo UK, Aftershock is forbidden from writing on these forums, even if to help someone. It is something that can cause employment dismissal. This senior manager is watching this forum and reading our comments and agrees that Aftershock's comments are against their employment policy. I really hope winding the Volvo consumer up was worth it Aftershock since you are breaking your employment agreement.

Is that not a little unfair given that all he's done is defend Volvo. Shame on them if any disciplinary action is taken over him expressing his opinion.

[pyaap]

Shame on them if any disciplinary action is taken over him expressing his opinion.

I agree with you Andy, that would be exceedingly harsh and I would hope that does not turn out to be the case.

[mraldonnelly]

I agree with you Andy, that would be exceedingly harsh and I would hope that does not turn out to be the case.

I also think it's a real loss to the forum given help After Shock has provided in the past and the help he could provide in the future.

Regards

Andy

[PunkDebutante]

Is that not a little unfair given that all he's done is defend Volvo. Shame on them if any disciplinary action is taken over him expressing his opinion.

I agree but it is in their corporate employment agreement. I did not make them aware of this. Volvo UK was already aware. I was forewarning him of possible consequences.

[pyaap]

I also think it's a real loss to the forum given help After Shock has provided in the past and the help he could provide in the future.

Regards

Andy

Again, wholeheartedly agree with you, but it seems (from reading another post) that from a legal standpoint, he may be putting himself at uneccesary risk.

[PunkDebutante]

Again, wholeheartedly agree with you, but it seems (from reading another post) that from a legal standpoint, he may be putting himself at uneccesary risk.

That is it. It is a legal thing from the corporations viewpoint. I agree, from reading some of his previous posts, he is of huge help to people. But Volvo has to protect themselves in the midst of class action lawsuits and the talk of product liability lawsuits here in the UK. Remember, everything can be brought into court. Everyone has to protect themselves.

[g-a-r-y]

I informed Volvo when writing to them that my car had been serviced religiously every 10k miles by a reputable garage that is vat registered and here's the response.. obviously my low expectations of Volvo have been upheld at it's time to get in touch with Watchdog.... surely loyalty is earned by great customer service and open admission of failure to provide a part that is fit for purpose? Does anyone know if the service schedule specifically states that they clean the crackcase ventilation system? Anyways, here's the repsonse:

Thank you for your e-mail below. I am sorry that your car has been experiencing a problem which has recently been resolved by our dealership in Milton Keynes. I can understand your concerns and the reasons for contacting us following the Watchdog programme on Tuesday 14th February. However, as with all components the ETS can be subject to failure. As the ETS is not subject to a recall in the UK we would view any failures on a goodwill basis dependent age, mileage, denied usage and loyalty to the dealership network as demonstrated by a full Volvo dealership serving history. I have reviewed the decision made in January when our dealer contacted us and would advise that on a vehicle with 126,000miles and no recorded Volvo servicing history since 17/6/03 at 57,425 miles we do not believe that we have a responsibility to assist with your costs on this occasion.

What we are able to do to is to offer you a free of charge ETS software upgrade which will improve the performance of the ETS. We are due to have updated software within the next few months and will be in contact nearer the time to arrange a convenient time for the software to be installed.

Volvo do not consider the issue to be safety related and the situation in the USA is that they have extended their warranty on this component as a result of the USA's emissions laws. Different countries have different emissions regulations and to ensure continued compliance with local legislation the USA decided to extend the warranty period for the ETS to 10 years and 200,000miles.

Correct servicing is important as part of the servicing programme involves cleaning of the crankcase venitilation system, if this is not done then it can have an adverse effect on the operation of the ETM.

I am sorry that I am unable to offer you the response for which I am sure you had hoped.

[PunkDebutante]

I am so sorry Garry for the response you received. They say this isn't a safety issue but there are 3 cases in the US where bodily injury has happened from ETM failure. Maybe the Brits should band together with one another and look at a massive product liability lawsuit as it meets the requirements.

[marsbar]

After speaking with a senior manager at Volvo UK, Aftershock is forbidden from writing on these forums, even if to help someone. It is something that can cause employment dismissal. This senior manager is watching this forum and reading our comments and agrees that Aftershock's comments are against their employment policy. I really hope winding the Volvo consumer up was worth it Aftershock since you are breaking your employment agreement.

Are you sure that it is possible that After shock is breaking any employment agrement seeing as he does not work for volvo, but for a dealer?? Would the dealer care, i can't really see anything that After shock has written that is that bad.

Is this not an open forum for people to give there view on the issue, weather that is against volvo or not, it would seem that 'PunkDebutante' wants to control this string to enhance the issue against volvo, seems very biased?

I have been following this string for a few days now, since the watchdog program, and it seems that the biggest problem that people have is over paying for the etm. Looking back at some of the comments, it would seem that the issue is no worse than running out of petrol from a safety point of view?

If Volvo do cure the saftey concern with the software for the cars, it seems that your only issue would then be the cost of the item? If this is a safety concern that you have it would seem that volvo is dealing with it. So is the concern cost or safety?

[Snowdon]

It’s come as a great shock to learn of After_Shock exclusion, whatever the reason it feels like one Organisation has imposed censorship on another, not forgetting the possible consequences this person may face, I sincerely hope that they will not become a casualty.
Shame on anyone if their responsible.

[PunkDebutante]

Are you sure that it is possible that After shock is breaking any employment agrement seeing as he does not work for volvo, but for a dealer?? Would the dealer care, i can't really see anything that After shock has written that is that bad.


I was just forewarning him given what I was told today. I think Aftershock has given some fantastic information in the past to Volvo owners. But when you keep repeating time and time again you are employed by Volvo, the law is a bit less grey. Volvo UK has to protect themselves legally in a very litigious environment.


Is this not an open forum for people to give there view on the issue, weather that is against volvo or not, it would seem that 'PunkDebutante' wants to control this string to enhance the issue against volvo, seems very biased?





In no way am I biased nor against Volvo. I adore my V70. What I am upset about is the fact that I was almost killed because this is a safety problem. Money is one thing. I know when you have an older car, then you will have repair bills. The problem is in how people are being treated. I am sorry you feel I am trying to control the issue. I am most certainly not biased against Volvo. It is my dream car except for this issue. Plus, Volvo has provided me with a very nice life. I am sorry if I offended by simply correcting misrepresentations and telling my experience.

[scoffbelly]

the issue is no worse than running out of petrol from a safety point of view?

Yes of course, the effect is the same and both frightening if it happens when driving in the outside lane of a busy motorway. The key difference is of course that you have a fuel gauge and warning light to make sure you don't run out of fuel. There's no warning that your ETM is about to fail. If you recall the Audi dashboard failure, the incorrect reading on the Audi fuel gauge was considered a safety issue.

So is the concern cost or safety?

The primary concern is of course safety and if Volvo can follow this up and offer a solution that gives reasonable warning or prevent the ETM failure - as the software upgrade might do then that's a start. Trouble is as per previous posts in this thread, the software upgrade is only available to those who's ETM has already failed, so where's the warning going to come from for drivers with original ETM's ? This still doesn't make sense to me.

On the cost side, no one likes an unexpected bill for £645.00 especially when it is clear the failing part has an inherent design flaw.

What's more it's only human nature to feel the injustice that USA owners now have a 10 year, 200,000 mile extended ETM warranty due to their more stringent emission laws.

Is this debate going round in circles a bit as most points have already been covered and have feedback in earlier posts in this thread.

Simon Jennings

[marsbar]

Yes of course, the effect is the same and both frightening if it happens when driving in the outside lane of a busy motorway. The key difference is of course that you have a fuel gauge and warning light to make sure you don't run out of fuel.

That is the case, unless you have a faulty gauge, wiring or sender unit? All of which is possible on any car, and can happen quite easily. I think the issue with the audi was also different in the fact that the combined instrument can make the whole car fail, not just the fact that you get no instrument readings.



The primary concern is of course safety and if Volvo can follow this up and offer a solution that gives reasonable warning or prevent the ETM failure - as the software upgrade might do then that's a start. Trouble is as per previous posts in this thread, the software upgrade is only available to those who's ETM has already failed, so where's the warning going to come from for drivers with original ETM's ? This still doesn't make sense to me.

My understanding is that the software will be available to all owners of cars that are affected by the problem, not just those that have already had a failure.


Is this debate going round in circles a bit as most points have already been covered and have feedback in earlier posts in this thread.

This is true, but i feel that there are a lot of myth's floating around about the failure of the ETM, it seems more unlikely that the unit will fail in the extreme and that the car will drop to limp, the more common failure seems to be the fact that you will get rough idle issue's, and emission related problems. But that i said i still see the issue that it is possible to drop to limp in a bad situation.


I feel that the watch dog program has done no more than scare the people that are affect by this issue.

[scoffbelly]

My understanding is that the software will be available to all owners of cars that are affected by the problem, not just those that have already had a failure.

I do hope that turns out to be the case, Where have you gathered this understanding ?

Watchdog specifically stated and made a "vexed" point that Volvo explained that the upgrade would only be available to those who had already experienced an ETM failure

It is worth taking the time to have a good read through www.vexedvolvo.org

[marsbar]

Thank you for your e-mail below. Volvo Car UK Limited would like to
arrange for your car to be upgraded with new software to improve the
performance of the ETS. We are due to have updated software within the
next few months and will be in contact nearer the time to arrange a
convenient time for the software to be installed

Above is part of the reply fro volvo, it makes no mention of just cars that have had a problem, also the press release suggests all cars.

Many thanks for the vexed link, i have read through this inforation throughly, as i think everyone shuld, to get an understanding of the issue.

[chriscxd]

Just spoke to customer care this morning on the 0845 7564363 number as suggested by Watchdog, stating I wasn't happy with the response I got to my complaint and request for a refund back in December for my ETM which failed last year.

They advised me to write in with a copy of the invoice and they would consider a full or part refund under a goodwill gesture. At the moment they are still not offering the same warranty deal as the States though - discrimination or what ?

[ollieoxford]

Well, I am an IT Consultant with experience in software for electromechanical control systems. I can surmise on the software changes from my personal experience on the replacement and upgrades to my ETM units.

Original unit -> 6 years, 69K miles. Failed intermittently over two months, took 3 visits to original supplier who sold me the car to even admit there was a problem after they cleaned all contacts, and did bugger all to fix it until I threatened to give the car back. The ETS light came on and off, the Emissions light also did similar. Went into limp mode only the once, whilst wife at wheel - and when she got on the phone they sat up and got the unit replaced!!!!

2nd unit -> 7 months, 5000 miles. Worked perfectly from start. ETS Light came on Saturday night. Sunday morning, Limp mode permanently on…. Local Volvo dealer in Wantage replaced it the week before Christmas, no questions asked, under original 12 month warranty with the unit.

3rd unit (current). Sluggish response for first three weeks, settled down and working fine and smooth now, though sharp throttle response not there, and economy has slightly decreased.

Subjectively, I can conclude that there have been at least two changes in the software:
1. Fail-safe mode -> now at the first hint of a problem, the system switches to Limp-home mode PERMINANTLY at the first safe instance (when car next re-started). This is the safest option as far as driver and Volvo (litigation wise) is concerned.

2. The “feedback” response on the unit has been “smoothed” so that the wipers on the resistive film don’t “jitter” during operation causing premature wear. (In essence, the tolerances have been relaxed). The result is a less responsive throttle, but hopefully a longer lived throttle. (Technically, the throttle is driven by a motor, and the resistor tells the system where the throttle is. If the tolerance is too tight, the motor will continuously move the throttle “hunting” for the correct position).

Well, I started this thread before Christmas, and have been away until now, and was surprised at how much has happened. I also initially contacted Watchdog, and am now pleased that they have covered this, but I am disappointed at the response of Volvo UK.

What comes across, is the brand loyalty that people have to their Volvo’s, they buy them to keep their valuables safe (my best wishes to PunkDebutante – I swapped both our cars to Volvo’s due to my two young children). Owners will tolerate a lot of minor glitches, but serious continued expense because of poor reliability, and the doubt on their safety credientials will hit the brand hard. There are other cars proven as safe and performance wise now, so Volvo (Ford) UK had better wake up and smell the roses.

We have to keep vocal, and our best bet is to see if we can get Jeremy Clarkson to say something……………...

Ollie
C70 T(rouble)5
940 LPT

[ukvizeng]

My 2000 v70 T5 has been suffering the classic symptoms of the fault ETM. I've been to one dealer three times each time no answers.

Today however the ETM died while on the Motorway doing 70-80 it was early and i was alone so getting to the ard shoulder was possible though i have to admit rather scary as the engine was not responding .. Well i lost the fuel flap too as the lorries going by produce rather a lot of air preasure and mine came off just dangling by the retainer cord.

towed to the dealer where i bought the car and have the FVSH by greenflag .. left it there called Volvo, very helpful they said let the dealer diag the problem then call back .. Dealer called £600 for ETM and fuel flap and this included a 20% good will from volvo. I called Volvo and complained that 20% was not good enough and they now conceeded to 50% , considering my position i thought 100% would be better but 50% was not bad offering . for now i am hopeful that a full refund will be coming soon..

Apart from this one issue I love the car and would not hesitate to get another.

[kevham]

Update on my 2000 V70 2.4 (170bhp).
Background - car has been difficult to start and rough idle intermittently for last 2 years (since about 50,00miles). I first reported problem to dealer in December 03 - he was unable to find any problem. I've put up with problem as a minor irritation until Tuesday's Watchdog led me to this site and what I read prompted me into action again.

When I wrote to Volvo, they told me to contact my dealer if I experienced any problems before their software upgrade is available. As I was experiencing 'rough idling' (specifically mentioned in Volvo's e-mail), I contacted the dealer.

Dealer collected car today and called back to say that they had checked for fault codes and found none. They are unable to replicate the problem and therefore there is nothing they can do.:baring_teeth: This is EXACTLY the same response I got in Dec 03. I have told them to hold on to the car over the weekend and try to replicate the problem after the car has been sitting (this is when it is most likely to occur). HOWEVER, I now have no faith that they will diagnose any problem.

This is unacceptable. There is clearly a problem with my car. It may or may not be the ongoing ETM issue but it needs to be fixed. I have had nothing but good service from this dealer until now and I cannot help feeling that Volvo are not providing dealers with sufficient information to diagnose and resolve these problems.

Where can I go from here? I am rapidly losing any semblance of faith in Volvo and in my poor old V70.

[rogwebb1]

My son has borrowed my V 70 a few times and really liked the Volvo. As he was due to change his car he wanted to get a S 60 or S 80, he saw watchdog on Tuesday. Today he brought his new car down to show me, a Honda Civic R

[Oli]

Hello all,

Following this thread with interest. In the past year, I can list 3 occasions when my car has behaved irratically, with random revving of the engine and semi-stalling when stationary or moving in slow traffic and once at motorway speed. But after a short while the prob goes away. Not sure if this is ETM or just some gunk in the system (as at least one poster has suggested could be the cause of such symptoms)

Anyway to try and clarify some confusion on this thread, it does seem that the US extended warranty can be partially related to emissions, although to me that would seem a secondary concern to the safety issue. In fact I should say California, not US as it is there that the California Environmental Protection Agency/Air Resources Board has also taken an interest in this fault in that as they state in their press release on the matter: "Premature failure of this emissions component could cause an increase in smog-forming emissions and also affect the drivability of the vehicle." (http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/nr112205.htm). The national interest in the matter, which is still subject to an ongoing engineering assessment, is the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) which PunkDebutante provided in an earlier link. The ongoing engineering investigation is going to create a lot of work for Volvo in complying with the requirements of the investigation.

The NHTSA is part of the US Dept of Transportation. Perhaps this forum should be making a representation to our own Deptartment for Transport, as well as Watchdog. As it is the weight of government in the US that seems to have forced this resolution, not a TV show, albeit a well intended and valuable consumer champion.

Oli

[Don Willson]

Hi,
It's me again, Don Willson.

Rajan called me on Feb 2nd and I passed on to him the dozen names I have in the UK and pointed him to VEXEDvolvo.org and some of the US forums, expecially www.volvoxc.com and www.matthewsvolvosite.com and the ETM forum.

Even though I did not get direct credit on the Watchdog report I have received e-mail because of it. The link on the web page at the bottom links to the Channel 7 report in Denver, Colorado where some old bald guy (me) was explaining the ETM failure. Then he linked to VEXEDvolvo..org.
Let respond to several posts with this one.


Oli-- I realize that this does not pertain to the UK but I thought it might be of interest.
I talked with John Urkof at the Air Resources Board - California. When I asked about the letters I was enlightened. My questions were:
Q. How does Volvo get all of the addresses?
A. J. D. Polk maintains up to date records of who owns what car. They have confidentially agreements with all state registration bureaus that allow them to have the state records for appropriate use. When needed for a recall, the records are made available to automobile manufacturers (for a price). So it appears that they will have the names and addresses (and VINs) of current owners. We would hope that each car has a history of all owners which would even cover previous owners.
Q. When will the letters be sent out, the CARB report said December 5th.
A. William Shapiro said that there will be a mass mailing with the estimate being mid February.
Q. How did you negotiate a 200,000 mile warranty.
A. In California the average mileage on a 10-year old car is 147,000 miles, thus an adder to cover the higher mileage cars.
Q. Are you aware that replacement ETMs are failing as soon as 'on the dealer's driveway, 7,000, 12,000 and 20,000 miles?
A. I was asked where I got my information, to which I replied from the e-mail sent to me. There was no further comment.

kevham -- Check out 'troubleshooting' at VEXEDvolvo.org. Know what is said in TNN 25-149A. Ask them to read the codes and the counters which give some history.

ukvizeng -- 50% is better than nothing but check "Beyond North America" at vexedvolvo.org.

ollieoxford -- Great post on the software. Check "troubleshooting' at VEXEDvolvo.org. It describes the various 'limp home' modes. Your comments on the dithering (jitter) are probably right on. Since sht O2 sensor is continuously oscillating between .2 VDC and .8 VDC wouldn't this also cause minor movement around the stiometric mixture? My understanding is that the software is designed to reduce the number false alarms that cause ETMs in California to be needlessly replaced. This seems like it is counter productive from our position.

sholtby -- Later cars have a totally non contacting throttle position sensor. I have found two solutions that I think are promising and have passed them on. You can see my ideas at 'Very Technical' at vexedvolvo.org.

TJMurphy -- I am probably responsible for the confusion on which cars are affected. When I first started this campaign I thought, and spread the word, that it was 1999 through 2001. It was not until the extended warranty was announced that we found out there were 2002 models included also. There is no Bosch replacement for the Magnetti Marelli. You can check for yourself by looking under the hood, see 'Technical' at vexedvolvo.org

scoffbelly -- In North America there are about 330,000 cars of the 1999 to 2002 model years and by last December there have been 120,000 replaced. The units are identical. The part number being installed in the US is 8644347.

In summary: If you want me to add you to my e-mail list send e-mail to vexedvolvo@comcast.net. If you want to send e-mail to the whole UK group I will forward it. Can you get a news story in some of the papers?

Do you have any lawyers (solicitors) driving Volvos?

Don Willson
Fort Collins, Colorado
VEXEDvolvo@comcast.net
http://vexedvolvo.org

[mraldonnelly]

My son has borrowed my V 70 a few times and really liked the Volvo. As he was due to change his car he wanted to get a S 60 or S 80, he saw watchdog on Tuesday. Today he brought his new car down to show me, a Honda Civic R

Sadly, this is the route I'll probably take (not the Honda Civic Type R though). I'm not prepared to own a car whith a defective part which, even when replaced, is still a defective part. Can you believe that you pay £700 for a part with a known design fault and they only provide a 12 month warranty!!!

As much as I love my car I think she'll be disposed of in the not too distant future and a move to another manufacturer may well be on the cards. Christ I may even go for a Skoda as I've heard pretty good things about them. Especially the VRS.

And to think, my Father-in-Law bought a V70 T5 on the strength of my faith in them! He'd been looking at the 5 series, E-class and S-Type until I introduced him to the T5 and persuaded him to get one. £42,000 with all the options! Boy do I regret that!

Regards

Andy

[Oli]

Thanks for the above note Don.

On the subject of recalls, I'm pretty sure that Volvo have all the info they need on owners, etc. I suspect this because my wife's 850 was purchased from a private dealer, but a few months later we got an official letter from a dealer about a recall on the front heated seats! Never managed to work out how they got hold of us though.

Oli

[suck-it-and-see]

Hi folks, After reading about the ETM problems on various forums and seeing the Watchdog program the other night, I checked the service history on my W reg (2000) 2.0LPT C70. The throttle housing part No 8644347 was replaced and ETM reload part No 9438425 was completed at 65,742 miles. I have checked the part on the car and it has a yellow sticker on it. This I am presuming is the animal in question?
The car has covered approx 93,000 miles now and hasn't failed to my knowledge (as I purchased it with 79,000 on the clock), but just recently it splutters and coughs when started from cold. It's OK if you rev it or hold the revs at about 1500 for a couple of seconds, but the other day something happened for the first time, I was pulling off at a roundabout and put my foot right down, it accelerated as usual but suddenly hesitated like it had hit deep water and then was fine again! Does it sound like it is failing? It currently does approx 23mpg which seems a bit low considering I normally drive the car very sensibly! does the ETM affect the mgp?
I have read posts that suggest the replacement part only lasted approx 10-12,000 miles. I emailed Watchdog a couple of days ago to fuel the fire for us UK owners but have not recieved an answer. Other than this I love the car, but am a little worried going on trips with my 7 year old daugter in the car and obviously the expense of this item.
Any advice on the above would be greatly appreciated.
Jase.

[Welshboyglos]

We got our V70 back from the dealer on Friday.

The dealer has updated the software but will not confirm that this was done as anything to do with the symtoms the V70 was experiencing and therefore nothing to with the ETM. Oddly though it has fixed the problem.
They did advise that this was done purely as a goodwill gesture - I told him that that was rubbish, as the line seemingly coming from Volvo UK is that this upgrade will be done if the ETM is possibly at fault!

Neither could he answer why the upgrade can be applied now but when the car was with them 3 weeks ago they could find and do nothing. They knew about the upgrade then so why wasn't it carried out.

So for the meantime, the car is running a lot better from start-up than it was before. The dealer will not provide ANY warranty extension for the ETM (it's out of it's warrranty in April) but I did manage to get them to agree to discussing the issue and who would foot the bill if it does now fail outside the warranty.

Best we can hope for I guess but..

as per the post's previous to this - if your car is experiencing any of the problems then take it to your dealer. The upgrade can be carried out FREE OF CHARGE (refuse to pay for it - they will do it for free as we have got from our dealer) and hopefully with enough pressure from US the consumers we can FORCE Volvo Uk's hand and get the part covered under the same form of warranty as the U.S. customers currently enjoy.

I for one will be watching this with some interest in the coming months just to see how this is dealt with by Volvo Uk - Is this the first major crisis since Ford ownership? If it is expect the corporate Ford response to this issue and that is why we don't own Ford's! (ok we do now if you get a brand new one!)

Ho Hum!

[kevham]

Q. How does Volvo get all of the addresses?
A. J. D. Polk maintains up to date records of who owns what car. They have confidentially agreements with all state registration bureaus that allow them to have the state records for appropriate use. When needed for a recall, the records are made available to automobile manufacturers (for a price). So it appears that they will have the names and addresses (and VINs) of current owners. We would hope that each car has a history of all owners which would even cover previous owners.



In the UK, the DVLA will supply names and addresses of current registered keepers to manufacturers who require them for a recall. My V70 has already been recalled for the overheating fan issue. If we ever get a recall in UK, this is the way Volvo will contact owners.


kevham -- Check out 'troubleshooting' at VEXEDvolvo.org. Know what is said in TNN 25-149A. Ask them to read the codes and the counters which give some history.


Don - I have read TNN 25-149A deveral times and am just beginning to comprehend it (I'm a civil engineer - not an automotive engineer!) My main problem is convincing the dealer that there even is a problem when no fault codes are logged. My dealer is adamant that there is NO problem with ETM's in the UK.
Does anyone know if Volvo UK has issued similar troubleshooting guidance to UK dealers?

[ollieoxford]

, but the other day something happened for the first time, I was pulling off at a roundabout and put my foot right down, it accelerated as usual but suddenly hesitated like it had hit deep water and then was fine again! Does it sound like it is failing? It currently does approx 23mpg which seems a bit low considering I normally drive the car very sensibly! does the ETM affect the mgp?
Jase.

Hi Jase, I also have a C70, and that is EXACTLY the sort of thing that was happening to me which got me worried. It will only get worse. I can sumise that yes it will adversely affect the mpg as it gets worse - since my engine emissions light eventually came on as well as the ETS light.

One thing that improved the running of my car (after my first replacement ETM), was changing the original MAF sensor - this was causing some slight rough running (which initially had me worried as to the ETM failing prematurely) but a £100 well spent on Ebay and 5 minutes with a screwdriver sorted that. This is something worth investing in if you still have the original unit, but its affects are *subtle* and nothing like the problems associated with the ETM failing.

What I can say in the (only) defence of the ETM verses a conventional throttle cable, is (when its working properly) cold/damp weather conditions don't affect my C70 compared to the problems with my 940 Estate continually stalling until its properly warmed up!

Ollie
C70 T(rouble)5
940 LPT

[ollieoxford]

If there is a "non-contacting" form fit potentiometer available as Don Wilson (in Very Technical) indicates, isn't there a very big business opportunity out there for someone other than Volvo to re-manufacture these units for retro-fitting?

Ford is probably hoping the problem will go away as these cars get older and scrapped, unfortunately we know that Volvo's do last a very long time. (That's one of the reasons we bought them).

So, if someone was to do the leg-work to rebuild these units as non-contacting (rather than just refurbish/replace the carbon tracks) isn't there a large after-market out there?

Ideally we want Volvo to admit to the problem, and to do this for us, or to sponsor someone to build such a unit. But to be blunt, if I knew I was going to replace the unit with something that would last the life of the car rather than fail in the next ?? miles, then I would be prepared to pay a reasonable amount for it. Any specialists out there who can help?

Ollie

C70 T(trouble)
940 LPT

[suck-it-and-see]

I hope Don can answer this one, but isn't there a normal cable driven throttle system that us in the UK would be able to fit?

[suck-it-and-see]

Hoorah! Watchdog have just said that they have recieved over a hundred emails from consumers on the ETM problem. I think we should keep them coming !!!!!

Jase.

[kevham]

Finally got my car back today from dealer. After several days trying to replicate the fault, they finally saw it yesterday morning. They then accepted that there was a fault, probably related to the throttle, although no DTCs were stored in the system.
In response, they have removed the ETM, cleaned the throttle body and refitted. They have also reloaded software (part no.s 30677021 and 30677023). They describe this as an upgrade but I don't think it is the upgrade that Volvo UK have offered as this is not due until April.
The car is definitely running apparently as normal now but I remain concerned about the potential for sudden, unexpected ETM failure.
I realise that this is not likely to be a long-term fix but given that there is no long-term fix yet available from Volvo, I am quite happy with the DEALER'S response.
I have to say that the dealer has been great over this - they are clearly not to blame for Volvo's flawed part and have bent over backwards to try to resolve my problem (including travelling over 40miles each way to pick up and return car and providing a reasonably nice courtesy car).
I will continue to monitor the situation and keep you updated of any further developments.
Cheers,
Kev

[volvo2]

Jase,

I missed the Watchdog program tonight. Did they say anything else of interest?

Melvyn

[Alasdair Mackay]

My V70T5 2001 39k has had a bit of morning sickness since local Volvo dealer serviced 3 weeks ago. The only check they could do was first thing in the morning to replicate condition, was in Monday morning no problem on computer, suggets to me over phone they would need to check the up-grade they have done which appears to have sorted the problem. I now have to wait untill the morning to see if it has worked. No ETM problem was indicated. I suggested it may have been an injector problem overloading and when first started it ran rough until warmed. They informed me it was not the case. This is the 4th Volvo I have owned and the only time I have not felt very confident about the future. Does anybody know the stats of failing ETM's relevant to number of vehicles sold between 1999 & 2001.

[ollieoxford]

Alister - I quote from the 7NEWS DenverChannel report

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/5331373/detail.html

"In September, a 7NEWS investigation uncovered a document, showing that Volvo knew about problems with the electronic throttle as far back as 1998 before the cars ever hit the showroom.

Volvo tested the parts and determined a 94 percent failure rate before 100,000 miles."

Not good reading.

Ollie
C70 T(rouble)5
940 LPT

[suck-it-and-see]

Hi Melvyn,

They just said that they had recieved over a hundred emails. Not nearly enough I don't think seeing how many cars are affected by tis problem. I have not had one back from them yet but I think we should keep on at them.

Jase.

[Don Willson]

I hope Don can answer this one, but isn't there a normal cable driven throttle system that us in the UK would be able to fit?

Consider what in interconnected to the ETM. No longer do you have to have a bellows to operate the cruise control.
With the electronic transmission there are interconnections and interactions with the throttle.

You do not need a idle air bypass valve.

It is not just the ETM that was new but a whole interconnected control system for the car.

Don Willson

[Don Willson]

Jase,

I missed the Watchdog program tonight. Did they say anything else of interest?

Melvyn
You can go to www.bbc.com, go to watchdog and learch for
Volvo.

Don Willson

[volvo2]

Yes, that's the original Volvo feature. It was mentioned again this week.

Jase,

Yes I agree. I also left a message on the Top Gear web site but so far have not heard back. Given that Top Gear seems to have dumbed-down somewhat I guess they may not reply. Some time ago I wrote to Which Magazine. At the time they did not seem interested. I have recently forwarded the Watchdog transcript to them - lets hope they also now get interested.

Melvyn

[Muscas]

Just had my ETM overhauled at a cost of £167.

Takes about 1 1/2 hours to remove the unit and a further 2 hours to fit back in, but I am well pleased with the results.

Should you have any questions about this procedure I will be more than happy to help.

Patrick

[doorman]

Hi Patrick
Glad to hear everything is O-K now, trust you had a good holiday.

Dave
V70'R' AWD

[sierraman]

Hi Patrick

I have just had my v70 classic serviced by an independent volvo specialist. Vadis/veda? or whatever confirmed that the system had displayed throttle unit faulty signal codes along with Immobiliser communication faults as well.

I already knew that the car had etm problems and have been quoted £550 by the independent to recondition my etm and supply a new accelarator sensor unit as well. Apparently this sensor should be replaced at the same time as the etm because they normally wear out together or can cause similar problems and fault codes to the etm. which makes it more sense to replace at the same time. Anyone have any knowledge of this?

My local Volvo dealer wants £675.00 to replace the etm and acted like i was the first person to request a price for this. It took nearly an hour before they returned my call with a price and didn't seem at all knowlegeable about etm problems etc. I was told that i would be supplied with a new unit and there was no mention of them keeping my old etm (forgot to ask) They also didn't appear to know about the new software update which is available in April?

Anyway if you could explain what you had done and what warranty you got etc etc ...it would be helpful.

Many thanks

[volvo2]

I have been in contact with the Vehicle Safety Branch (VSB) of the Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA) here in the UK. Following my raising this issue, they met with representatives from Volvo but so far seem unwilling to take action. The communication to me was marked as confidential, so I would feel uncomfortable in posting it here. However, they do seem confused as the basis they give for not taking action is that, I quote, "as an adequate warning is given, there appears no reason to consider an action under the terms of the Code". They seem to be under the impression that a warning light illuminates prior to the failure, which as far as I know is not the case.

If anyone else would like to contact the VSB, the Head of Vehicle Safety
(VOSA) is Mr Jeffrey Sweeting, tel. 0117 9543245 Let me know if you would like his e-mail address (again I would rather not post it).

Melvyn

[Muscas]

Hi Sierraman,

Sorry for the delay, been really busy.

OK, my ETM failed after a 150 miles journey, throughout the journey the car was juddering, so I ensured the cruise control remained on.
Eventually the cruise kicked out and the ETS light came on. The car went into limp home mode, about 25MPH. No where near enough for a motorway.

When the recovery truck arrived, all was well, car idled fine even the light was out. Same again the next day.

Even though the car now appeared to be running fine I made the decision not to risk driving it as I felt it was unreliable. I decided to remove the ETM from the inlet manifold and send it away for bench overhaul. The advantage of doing this was that I would get the same unit back so there was no need for me to go to my Volvo dealer for a software session.

I sent the ETM to a workshop in Kent, follow this link:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4607988885
or
http://www.bba-reman.com/
for more info.

The workshop confirmed that the ETM was defective.

Fortunatly I went away on holidays, so by the time I had returned the overhauled unit was waiting for me at a neighbours house.

I refitted the same unit back to the car, primed the fuel sysyem, replenished the antifreeze and it started first time. Car now drives perfectly, idles fine, no lights. Fingures crossed it all stays that way.

I have lots of photos of the removal and subsequent refit, should you require them I will be happy to supply. If I can help in anyway I am happy to assist where ever I can.

Hope this helps

Patrick

[the_boy]

Hi Patrick,

Sounds good so far....any chance you could put up some pictures and possibly detail what you did?

I'm not very mechanically minded but I'd rather give this a go than take mine to a dealer, get a replacement unit that might fail another 8 months down the line and pay £650 for the pleasure.

Regards
Kieran

[Muscas]

More detail to follow

Patrick

[Muscas]

What triggers the ETS light?

Just that, what actually makes the light come on?

[Tinsel]

Dear all,

My first post - but not a happy one.

80,000 mile Year 2000 "new" shape V70 2.4 140bhp SE petrol. Running roughly recently but with no fault codes. Over the last couple of weeks the car is "missing" at medium revs, idling erratically and has cut out on 3 occasions (the last of which was at 40mph - hence, no power steering or assisted brakes).

Local Volvo dealer checked the ETM and confirmed there was a problem. Suggested that if I couldn't wait for Apr 06 software update, a new ETM would solve the problem... for £600. He stated that it was a now well publicised problem, agreed that it was a worrying and potentially unsafe situation. He then asked me to contact Volvo UK, as he felt I would have more say.

The number quoted in the BBC Watchdog report (0845 756 4636) got me through to Alex, the "Head of Dept." She denied that it was a widespread problem; said the extension of the US warranty was due to environmental concerns; and told me that I can expect the ETM to be subject to the same failure rate as any other component. In summary, she wouldn't agree that this was a special case requiring remedial action.

She offered me a "good will" contribution of 20% towards the cost of replacement. She also told me that the software upgrade will not fix faulty units...

I can't see that Volvo UK are that philanthropic to contribute to my maintenance costs without good reason. So, how widespread is this problem? This thread seems to be one way of tracking it.

Incidently, I am going to contact SMMTP, Volvo Global Customer Relations (Swedish centre, have proved excellent in the past) and BBC Watchdog. As a last resort, I will probably find myself in a Small Claims Court.

I don't think that I'm being unreasonable in seeking a more substantial financial contribution. Especially, in the light of events in the US and the likelyhood of this being a problem suffered by folk other than just me - despite Volvo UK's view to the contrary...

Yours aye

Tinsel

[Welshboyglos]

Further to the last post and Volvo's offer of only 20% towards the cost, check out post 147 in this thread (about page 16 or 17). There's a guy there who also got offered 20% but managed to get Volvo to give 50%.

Fight your corner on this one, if everyone just backs down and lets Volvo call the shots, they'll never sort this problem out and it's taken far too long to get this far.

Go back to Volvo and get them to up the offer, push for 75% first and they'll feel like they've beaten you if you then accept 50% lol!

GO for it!

[MoJocvh]

Firstly a big HI as this is my first post.:Banane59:

Right down to buisness, I have been looking at a XC70 in the dealers, very nice second hand etc BUT on operating the throttle there was stiction at around the 90% open point (LOL forgot to say this was a static test in the showroom :cyclops: ) like a cable was about to go lossie.
Now to those who have been unfortunate to be blighted by this ETM failure did you notice ANY stiction in the operation of the accelerator pedal beforehand?

cheers

MoJo.

[Muscas]

That would have to be NO,
No sticky pedal, throughout the range of movement.
The only noticeable restriction to pedal movement might be the kick down switch (assuming its an Automatic), but that is foot the the floor stuff!
Hope that helps.


Patrick

[Muscas]

What is the most Volvo have offered anybody as a good will contribution towards ETM replacement?

VolvoUK has just offered me 5% assuming the dealership matches it.
(The car has a Full Volvo service history with 86K miles)

Poor offer I reckon seeing as with VOC membership I can get 10% anyway.

Full dealership price for replacement is £614.

Patrick

[haggishead]

Hi guy's,

Can someone tell me if the ETM issues apply to diesel estates. I was just about to buy a 1999 2.5D ES (65k on the clock) - went for a test drive, started the car and the engine started to shudder slightly , along with an engine management light coming on. The salesman said it had not been through its thorough checkout before going out...
It's just had a service at 61k, so it seems odd to have an engine management light coming on 4k later ?. Any views would be appreciated.

Rgds:sad-smiley-047:

[Chris_Rogers]

Diesels are not affected by the ETM issue.

[cq20]

Help! I've had a look at the pictures on Don Wilson's site, checked all over the engine compartment of my March 1999 old style V70 (2.4/140 bhp auto) and I can't find an ETM anywhere.

I've followed the throttle cable. It goes under a plastic cover, round a pulley and the only unit I can see near it has Bosch written on it.

Am I missing something or am I lucky enough not to have an ETM?

[chriscxd]

Mucas, Volvo have offered me 70% - ETM failed last Jan at 66k - full service history from new.

[Muscas]

OK,

VolvoUK is only going to offer me 5% as a good will gesture.

As I see it, I have the following case against VolvoUK.

1. Previously Volvo has offered up to 50% Good will gesture, thus setting a president. To offer any less than 50% is prejudiced.

2. Volvo advertise their cars as "some of the safest cars in the world" however this component fails without warning, hardly very safe after all, hence the product (car) has been mis-advertised. As a safety issue alone Volvo ought to recall these dangerous ETM's and offer the customer a replacement that is both reliable and offers the consumer peace of mind that they are in fact driving a safe car.

3. After I spend £617 on a replacement ETM, I have no gaurantee that this component is any safer than the previous defective one. So as a consumer I am forced to purchase a product that I know has an inherent and dangerous problem. Volvo has yet to design a replacement in keeping with Volvo's safety record.

4. The recent public awareness with regard to the defective ETM's has undoubtedly had a negative effect on residual values, reinforcing the fact that Volvo should offer a reliable replacement or offer the consumer compensation to match the fall in values of their cars.

I am collecting the car on Wednesday, I have decided not to accept Volvo's 5%, as it equates to a measly £30.

The dealership has kindly offered my 10% as per the VOC discount. Hence the same discount anyway.

I don't really have the time, but I am very annoyed at Volvo and I am keen to persue a case in a small claim court. I believe Volvo has mishandled this ETS issue and are hoping the problem will go away in time.

Any advice would be much appreciated.
This is your opportunity as well!
Your thoughts and comments please.

Patrick

[Chris_Rogers]

Help! I've had a look at the pictures on Don Wilson's site, checked all over the engine compartment of my March 1999 old style V70 (2.4/140 bhp auto) and I can't find an ETM anywhere.

I've followed the throttle cable. It goes under a plastic cover, round a pulley and the only unit I can see near it has Bosch written on it.

Am I missing something or am I lucky enough not to have an ETM?

If you have a throttle cable you don't have an ETM.

[volvo2]

Patrick,

I agree with much of what you have said. Particularly regarding a possible negative impact on the resale value of the cars affected. This has always been in my mind. I hope you have success in your dealings with Volvo and the Small Claims Court, should you go that route.

Unfortunately, I can see that Volvo UK may well weather all this. There simply does not seem to be enough pressure coming from disgruntled customers - even here on this forum! Did anyone else take the time to contact the Vehicle Safety Branch of the Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA)? Is anyone else raising the issue elsewhere?

Melvyn



OK,

VolvoUK is only going to offer me 5% as a good will gesture.

As I see it, I have the following case against VolvoUK.

1. Previously Volvo has offered up to 50% Good will gesture, thus setting a president. To offer any less than 50% is prejudiced.

2. Volvo advertise their cars as "some of the safest cars in the world" however this component fails without warning, hardly very safe after all, hence the product (car) has been mis-advertised. As a safety issue alone Volvo ought to recall these dangerous ETM's and offer the customer a replacement that is both reliable and offers the consumer peace of mind that they are in fact driving a safe car.

3. After I spend £617 on a replacement ETM, I have no gaurantee that this component is any safer than the previous defective one. So as a consumer I am forced to purchase a product that I know has an inherent and dangerous problem. Volvo has yet to design a replacement in keeping with Volvo's safety record.

4. The recent public awareness with regard to the defective ETM's has undoubtedly had a negative effect on residual values, reinforcing the fact that Volvo should offer a reliable replacement or offer the consumer compensation to match the fall in values of their cars.

I am collecting the car on Wednesday, I have decided not to accept Volvo's 5%, as it equates to a measly £30.

The dealership has kindly offered my 10% as per the VOC discount. Hence the same discount anyway.

I don't really have the time, but I am very annoyed at Volvo and I am keen to persue a case in a small claim court. I believe Volvo has mishandled this ETS issue and are hoping the problem will go away in time.

Any advice would be much appreciated.
This is your opportunity as well!
Your thoughts and comments please.

Patrick

[kevham]

Unfortunately, I can see that Volvo UK may well weather all this. There simply does not seem to be enough pressure coming from disgruntled customers - even here on this forum! Did anyone else take the time to contact the Vehicle Safety Branch of the Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA)? Is anyone else raising the issue elsewhere?

Melvyn

I am in limbo over this. My ETM has not failed yet and although the car has exhibited symptoms (poor starting, rough idle at start-up), cleaning the throttle body has cured these symptoms. I know, you know and I'm sure Volvo know that the ETM will fail at some point but until it does, there's not a lot I can do.
Volvo UK is adamant that it does "not consider the issue to be safety related".

I have been promised the software upgrade and when I asked Volvo UK to explain

"How EXACTLY will your proposed software upgrade improve the performance of the ETS?" and
"Will your proposed software upgrade reduce the liklihood of future ETM failure and if so, by what mechanism?",

I received the following bland reply:

"The ETS is a computer based system and therefore as with any computer programme it is the messages to the hardware that are changed and upgraded to provide better operation of the hardware. The proposed software upgrade will offer better performance of the ETM."

So, I'm just waiting for the inevitable...........
In the meantime, I'm looking at new cars.:cry_smile:

[Muscas]

Please see below an extract of the letter I sent to VolvoUK yesterday.

Dear XxxX,


Further to your letter dated the 6th of March 2006. I wish to draw your attention to paragraph 3 where you state that you had previously offered me 10%, this is simply not true, your previous offer was for only 5%. Please send me an amended correspondence reflecting the true nature of our conversation.

Please be kind enough to explain to me how you can offer other customers up to 70% good will and you are only willing to offer me 5%. You have already set a precedent. To offer any less than 70% is prejudiced to myself. You have said previously that your good will is subject to the customer’s loyalty to the brand (Volvo cars), age and mileage. I would like to remind you that this is my 5th Volvo car; this particular car represented the flagship model in 1999 and 2000 costing £40,000 new. The car has a Full Volvo Service history. You have offered 50% to a gentleman with 10K miles more than mine. Clearly you are discriminating against myself, please explain why.

Volvo advertise their cars as "some of the safest cars in the world" however this component fails without warning, hardly very safe after all, hence the product (car) has been mis-advertised. As a safety issue alone Volvo ought to recall these dangerous ETM's and offer the customer a replacement that is both reliable and offers the consumer peace of mind that they are in fact driving a safe car. I have pointed out to you that my ETM failed without warning with potential fatal consequences and you still believe this is not a safety issue, please clarify.

After I spend £617 on a replacement ETM, I have no guarantee that this component is any safer than the previous defective one. So as a consumer I am forced to purchase a product that I know has an inherent and dangerous problem. Volvo has yet to design a replacement in keeping with Volvo's safety record. Please tell me what plan you intend to adopt to allay my concerns and that of other Volvo customers.



The recent public awareness with regard to the defective ETM's has undoubtedly had a negative effect on residual values, reinforcing the fact that Volvo should offer a reliable replacement or offer the consumer compensation to match the fall in values of their cars. Please tell me how you intend to address this issue.

I have collected the car today from the Volvo dealership; the dealer was kind enough to offer a 10% discount in keeping with his commitment to a member of the Volvo Owners Club. This in no way represents full and final settlement. This 10% in no way shape of form has any connection to Volvo UK.

I respectfully request that you revisit this issue taking into account all the information as above and I look forward to your revised offer letter in respect of this letter in the next 7 days.

Kindest Regards

Patrick XXX

[g-wagon]

Very well written letter Muscas.
Can I just ask if you have had any reply from Volvo, as my mums ETM has just packed up on her S reg V70. A similar problem happened a few months ago, and Volvo tried to make a cheap fix for it, but it has not worked. I think her car is up at Volvo now being repaired/looked at.

Thanks.

[T5JAS]

etm failure from what i gather affects cars up to 2001 model, does anyone know when the improvments were made, as my girl is december 2001 so im hoping that she isnt affected? is this the case? if not i shall go to the Police authority that owned her before me and see if it was ever changed.
would also be interesting to find out from our garage mechanics if any etm have failed on our police cars at high speed.

[Muscas]

Volvo have confirmed receipt of my letter, I have no indication when they will reply.

I received a letter from VOSA, thankfully they are going to instruct Volvo to begin an investigation, unfortunatly this investigation will be conducted by VolvoUK.

I believe this defective component was superseded in 2003.

If you go back a few pages on this thread you can find a chap that had his ETM replaced by Volvo for free and he had 125K miles on his 1999 car.

Patrick

[g-wagon]

My mums volvo went up to volvo the other day, but I hadn't realised that she has had thre ETM replaced 6 montha ago. This time it is an oxygen sensor that has gone.

Anyway, what could be done by my mum to take up this issue with volvo, as after having spent £600 on a part that volvo know is faulty, she is looking for some sort of compensation, if not full repayment.

Muscas, I couldn't find that chap who had his replaced free. Maybe wasn't looking hard enough. SOunds interesting though.

[sholtby]

Maybe you guys could tackle this from another angle. We know that pre 2003 ETM are unreliable. As volvo replace the ETM with a similarly unreliable item could you not persue them for selling something they know is a faulty design.
Personally I wouldnt mind too much if my etm failed but I knew the replacement was an improved design.

Simon

[volvo2]

Apologies if this posting appears a little rude or pushy, however frankly I am astonished at the short term, ‘flash in the pan’ nature of apparent interest in this issue. I realise that many are not affected, however unless those of us who are take more action we will be permanently lumbered with an on-going expensive and potentially dangerous problem. The evidence points to the fact that sooner or later each of us will suffer repeated failure of this defective component. It is pretty clear that we cannot simply sit back and expect that this issue will resolve itself.

I have been attempting to pursue the matter with the Vehicle Safety Branch of the Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA). They seem interested and are currently awaiting a response from Volvo. However, in a recent e-mail the Head of Vehicle Safety, a Mr Jeffrey Sweeting, commented that he was surprised that following the Watchdog item they had received NO REPORTS concerning this. So am I!

Can I urge all those affected by this problem to contact VOSA immediately.

Contact details are:

Jeffrey Sweeting
Head, Vehicle Safety
VOSA
tel: 0117 9543245
e-mail: Jeffrey.Sweeting@vosa.gov.uk

On the other had, if there really is no interest in attempting to sort this out, I’ll give up and run the risks and suffer the costs along with the rest of you.

Melvyn

[loafer123]

This post may not make me popular, but....

Having a 2001 T5, I am interested, but I don't know whether it affects 100% of cars or 2%.

If it is closer to the latter, that seems acceptable risk. It could just as well be a failure in the engine or a fracture in an alloy wheel that stops my car working. If it is closer to the former, there is clearly an "unfit for purpose" issue.

Can I suggest that VolvoClub do a survey for those with cars in the affected years which notes down mileage, and whether/how many times the ETM has failed, so we have some stats to work from...

Regards,

Loafer

[Muscas]

Apologies if this posting appears a little rude or pushy, however frankly I am astonished at the short term, ‘flash in the pan’ nature of apparent interest in this issue. I realise that many are not affected, however unless those of us who are take more action we will be permanently lumbered with an on-going expensive and potentially dangerous problem. The evidence points to the fact that sooner or later each of us will suffer repeated failure of this defective component. It is pretty clear that we cannot simply sit back and expect that this issue will resolve itself.

I have been attempting to pursue the matter with the Vehicle Safety Branch of the Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA). They seem interested and are currently awaiting a response from Volvo. However, in a recent e-mail the Head of Vehicle Safety, a Mr Jeffrey Sweeting, commented that he was surprised that following the Watchdog item they had received NO REPORTS concerning this. So am I!

Can I urge all those affected by this problem to contact VOSA immediately.

Contact details are:

Jeffrey Sweeting
Head, Vehicle Safety
VOSA
tel: 0117 9543245
e-mail: Jeffrey.Sweeting@vosa.gov.uk

On the other had, if there really is no interest in attempting to sort this out, I’ll give up and run the risks and suffer the costs along with the rest of you.

Melvyn

Hi Melvyn,

You are not alone....

I am awaiting a response from VOSA, will keep you informed.

I am disappointed with various VOC Forum members as I have PM'd numerious people that claim to have had a larger good will contribution from Volvo UK even up to 100%, but a poor response. Beginning to think its a lot of p**s and wind.

Patrick

[Muscas]

Can I suggest that VolvoClub do a survey for those with cars in the affected years which notes down mileage, and whether/how many times the ETM has failed, so we have some stats to work from...

Regards,

Loafer

Sounds like a great idea to me!
What you say Simon Linton?
Is this something the VOC would be prepared to run with?

Patrick

P.S. I believe Volvo themselves predict a 97% failure rate between 40-100K miles.

[setjett5]

HiI have just emailed the VOSA to tell them of my ETM problem,one can only hope they can get us some joy,I will be picking up my car tomorrow and the bill is nearly £700 I can,t describe how angry I am about all this,i hope that the new ETM plus the upgrade may solve the problem but I doubt it,i plan to run it for a few months without any lights coming on (hopefully) then I will try to sell it and after 36 years my volvo days will be over.Cheers Hugh

[Muscas]

Very sad that you feel compelled not to buy Volvo again.

But I agree with you.

They are no longer a safe car manufacturer.
The manner in which Volvo have handled this whole ETM is a disaster.

Patrick

[volvo2]

Yes, I agree that is unfortunate. I have owned Volvos for the last 25 years and if this ETM problem is not resolved very soon would not consider another. I share Hugh's anger. I bought my V70 new in 2002. It represented a significant investment and I certainly did not expect to be regularly spending around £700 on a defective component!

Patrick - I am also a little disappointed with the response from the forum, particularly of late. I would have thought the forum could provide a mechanism to allow owners to have a voice - maybe not.

Melvyn

[ollieoxford]

Apologies if this posting appears a little rude or pushy, however frankly I am astonished at the short term, ‘flash in the pan’ nature of apparent interest in this issue. I realise that many are not affected, however unless those of us who are take more action we will be permanently lumbered with an on-going expensive and potentially dangerous problem. The evidence points to the fact that sooner or later each of us will suffer repeated failure of this defective component. It is pretty clear that we cannot simply sit back and expect that this issue will resolve itself.



I think the problem with this, is that unless Volvo is faced with legal action, nothing will actually happen, and frankly how many of us can afford to take a company like Volvo to court - its inevitably cheaper to sell your car. Sad but true - but that's how great brands are destroyed overnight. If you read some of the articles from the states how Volvo has treated its customers over this issue, its disgusting.

So seriously folks, isn't this what the Volvo Owners club is all about? To collect information on this problem on behalf of its members and as a service to Volvo Corporate? Or is it simply a case of biting the hand that feeds it? I'm surprised (shocked) that NOTHING has yet to be mentioned in either the magazine or technical publication for the club. We're not imagining it, this is a real problem here that Volvo knew about IN THE FACTORY and has tried to cover up at its customers expense.

So I suggest
a) A serious customer survey of VOC members as to whose been affected by this issue, and when. I am prepared to collate this information, but obviously I would then need contact details for all contributors.
b) When we have this information, we contact Volvo, and ask for representation and resolution. If none is forthcoming we have to then
c) take the potentially expensive path of a UK class action that Volvo is knowingly supplying an "unfit for purpose" item, and we use existing consumer law to compensate all affected customers.

Comments please?

[Muscas]

This morning I e-mailed Bob Isaac and requested that he carry out such a poll.

I believe its time the VOC put their weight behind this issue for the sake of its members. It is my hope now that they will be forthcoming in what ever capacity they can be.

With regard to taking Volvo UK to court, I am still keen to persue this avenue, however despite my best efforts to PM members who claim to have had 20% good will or greater contributions from Volvo UK they simply have not responded. Poor show I say!

Patrick

[volvo2]

I agree, sounds like a good way forward. My work keeps me pretty busy but I will help in any way I can.

I note though that so far there are only two of us responding. What happened to all the others?

M.

I think the problem with this, is that unless Volvo is faced with legal action, nothing will actually happen, and frankly how many of us can afford to take a company like Volvo to court - its inevitably cheaper to sell your car. Sad but true - but that's how great brands are destroyed overnight. If you read some of the articles from the states how Volvo has treated its customers over this issue, its disgusting.

So seriously folks, isn't this what the Volvo Owners club is all about? To collect information on this problem on behalf of its members and as a service to Volvo Corporate? Or is it simply a case of biting the hand that feeds it? I'm surprised (shocked) that NOTHING has yet to be mentioned in either the magazine or technical publication for the club. We're not imagining it, this is a real problem here that Volvo knew about IN THE FACTORY and has tried to cover up at its customers expense.

So I suggest
a) A serious customer survey of VOC members as to whose been affected by this issue, and when. I am prepared to collate this information, but obviously I would then need contact details for all contributors.
b) When we have this information, we contact Volvo, and ask for representation and resolution. If none is forthcoming we have to then
c) take the potentially expensive path of a UK class action that Volvo is knowingly supplying an "unfit for purpose" item, and we use existing consumer law to compensate all affected customers.

Comments please?

[volvo2]

Incidentally, as I mentioned on the 60 Series Forum, this is what Mr Sweeting at VOSA told me when I queried the fact that Volvo are investigating the matter themselves. I also asked about the misleading information Volvo have given concerning the adequacy of a warning (see my previous post):

"VOSA, unlike the manufacturer, does not have the detailed product/ specification knowledge and testing facilities and therefore relies on the manufacturer to conduct an investigation.However, VOSA engineers almost always participate, often recommend testing methods and are therefore kept fully informed.

Should VOSA disagree with a manufacturers decision then, if necessary, VOSA is empowered by legislation ( General Product Safety Regulations 2005) to apply penalties. However, voluntary action is always encouraged.

In the matter of the adequacy of the warning. This is part of the ongoing investigation and as yet I am unable to comment. However, one of the things we are looking at is the ' limp home' mode the engine adopts when the warning occurs and whether this is adequate to enable a driver to take an appropriate action. "

Melvyn

[HowardL]

Hi, I have a C70 convertible and the light came on yesterday. Although I had no loss of power initially I have noticed a drastic decrease in power delivery (I have the T5) I called Volvo not knowing about the common problem and they have quoted me £55 to "diagnose" the issue. I called an independent dealer and he gave me an update on the overall problem with the throttle body housing or software upgrade fix and the fact that Volvo "may" cover the cost. I then called Volvo customer services and apart from being quite abrupt the lady said that Volvo would not cover the cost unless there was a specific case raised by my dealer and it would be a goodwill gesture if anything was contributed towards the cost of repair. Today I drove the car and the light has gone...but for how long?

Sorry to ramble on, but I am new to Volvo ownership and I see this as a big customer relations issue and would have expected Volvo to issue a recall and cover the cost. I feel now that my car is being driven with kid gloves rather than how it should be until the dealer tells me what is wrong. If I am having to pay over £800 to repair this then I certainly will sell the car and go back to Saab which incidentally did not have any issues in 3 years of ownership (1997 model 900) and my Volvo has had 3 visits to the dealer (to fit new lower arms, the CD player broke, fix steering problem) in the past 4 months!!

How should I handle the dealer when they call me after the diagnosing of the problem, presuming that they actually find anything in the car's computer memory. Is it likely that they will tell me to replace the parts and charge me a fortune? Or will they call Volvo UK and request the cost to be covered? I'll find out on Monday!

[ventura]

Like many others, I'm sure, I have had my fill of Volvo. The 20% I was offered was just an insult so I ignored it.

Having already filled in my forms to VOSA, I would very much like to pursue other means of complaining to Volvo, but just run out of ideas.

Can the forum publish a vote register in a prominant place on such an important subject. At least then we could have an idea about how many people here are affected.

[Agostino]

I agree, sounds like a good way forward. My work keeps me pretty busy but I will help in any way I can.

I note though that so far there are only two of us responding. What happened to all the others?

M.
I for one am still here, I totally agree with you. As yet I have not had this fault on my 2001 V70. I have responded to previous surveys on the subject including notifying the VOSA, and also had my car checked out by my local Volvo dealer, who found nothing wrong! I am following closely everthing on this situation, and will support in any way whatever it takes to resolve this to owners satisfaction. V.O.C. Please conduct survey of members and fight on behalf of us members.

[sixfootblonde]

Oh bugger!!!!

I was hoping ot read better news than this.

Between my parents and I we have 2 new shape W reg V70's. Parents just phoned on their way back from a funeral saying the car will not go over 40 mph and is running like a pile of pooh. It has been running rough for a while now. And my car is stalling alot and revs go up and down intermittently. We are not happy and will need two damn thingies :baring_teeth:

I will campaign, phone, harrass anyone who needs harrassing. I am not happy. And neither are my parents!!

Keep me informed. :Dancing_chief:

[Muscas]

V.O.C. Please conduct survey of members and fight on behalf of us members.

I quote a correspondance I received from Bob,

"Patrick,

Firstly, the VOC will not take any action on this as it is an issue between
Volvo and the customer(s). Since the poll can be accessed by forum members
who are not VOC members, the results would not show the proportion of VOC
members who have this problem. Also, not all VOC members visit the forum.

I can see no benefit in this poll, and that the threads themselves
adequately reflect the size and severity of this issue.

Thanks all the same for the suggestion, we always welcome these.

Bob"

In response,

"Hi Bob,

Thank you for your e-mail.

I understand your position and reluctance to submit a poll on the VOC.

As I said in my previous e-mail, if you believe this is an important issue
then is it possible for the VOC to speak with Volvo Cars UK Ltd on the
behalf of it's members?

I believe this issue should be taken seriously by the VOC and the
appropriate action ought to be taken where ever possible.

Regards

Patrick"


I now fail to understand the purpose of the VOC, perhaps further clarification is needed from Bob. I respectfully request Bob's input here as I feel the VOC is an ideal platform to represent its members on this important safety issue.

Patrick

[setjett5]

hello all,
I just thought i would let you know I have had an email from Jeff Sweeting and he says they are in talks with volvo uk and he expects an answer about the middle of next month.I got my car back today,cost me £638,that included the new upgrade with the new ETM.Hugh

[ventura]

I had lovely surprise this morning, when the acceleration started pulsing then the car slowed.

I nursed it to work and this evening tried to get it home. ETS light and throttle wobbling all over the place.

This is made worse by the fact that last week I paid £626 for a new ETM. Are Volvo seriously trying to tell me this is not a defective unit.

Back to Motorworld Volvo to have another one fitted then.......

[volvo2]

I assume people have seen this:

http://v70xc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6106

M.

[ventura]

If it's a problem of enough importance to the XC owners to create a poll, why is it not of enough importance to all other Volvo owners or this forum?

Excuse my irritation, but I've had two of them go. I may have told you that.

[Jasgb]

Interesting to read the threads about ETS problems. I found this community by typing "Volvo Throttle Body Problems" into Yahoo and up came LOTS of sites!

My 1999 model V70 2.5 is showing the ETS light intermittently and sometimes the engine struggles and sometimes it runs fine. I contacted my local unofficial dealer and he confirmed all the stuff I've read so far about the problem so I've now emailed Customer Care at Volvo GB and am awaiting their response. I saved for ages to buy the car and definitely can't afford a £600+ repair bill so I hope they're prepared to help.... (not holding breath..). Oh, and I got the message about "supermarket fuel" vs Shell and BP Optimax. The Americans seem to think this is a red herring. Any opinions?

The other question I have is what about these remanufactured units? BBA Remanufacturers offer replacements and say the old unit should be sent to them because of the software transfer. Is this right?

I really object to being held over a barrel by Volvo on this!

[Muscas]

The other question I have is what about these remanufactured units? BBA Remanufacturers offer replacements and say the old unit should be sent to them because of the software transfer. Is this right?


I have used BBA Reman at a cost of £167 however it did not work.
Perhaps it was just bad luck on the part of BBA, I would like to think so.
BBA did give me my money back.
A good point of contact in BBA is Mark Barrett, he was very helpful.
He offered me two choices, either attempt to repair the ETM again or a full refund. I opted for the refund and had the ETM replaced by Volvo at a cost of £620 less a 10% dealer discount.

Patrick

[Muscas]

Hi, I have a C70 convertible and the light came on yesterday. Although I had no loss of power initially I have noticed a drastic decrease in power delivery (I have the T5) I called Volvo not knowing about the common problem and they have quoted me £55 to "diagnose" the issue. I called an independent dealer and he gave me an update on the overall problem with the throttle body housing or software upgrade fix and the fact that Volvo "may" cover the cost. I then called Volvo customer services and apart from being quite abrupt the lady said that Volvo would not cover the cost unless there was a specific case raised by my dealer and it would be a goodwill gesture if anything was contributed towards the cost of repair. Today I drove the car and the light has gone...but for how long?

Sorry to ramble on, but I am new to Volvo ownership and I see this as a big customer relations issue and would have expected Volvo to issue a recall and cover the cost. I feel now that my car is being driven with kid gloves rather than how it should be until the dealer tells me what is wrong. If I am having to pay over £800 to repair this then I certainly will sell the car and go back to Saab which incidentally did not have any issues in 3 years of ownership (1997 model 900) and my Volvo has had 3 visits to the dealer (to fit new lower arms, the CD player broke, fix steering problem) in the past 4 months!!

How should I handle the dealer when they call me after the diagnosing of the problem, presuming that they actually find anything in the car's computer memory. Is it likely that they will tell me to replace the parts and charge me a fortune? Or will they call Volvo UK and request the cost to be covered? I'll find out on Monday!

Hi Howard,

I suggest you let the dealer talk with Volvo UK on your behalf. If they have no joy then complain to Volvo UK directly. Volvo UK have offered other members of this forum up to 100% good will towards the cost of replacement.
Good luck, and do let us know how you get on, this kind of feedback is important.

Patrick

[Muscas]

For those of us that have had no success with Volvo UK, may I suggest we contact the following:

Volvo's Glodal Customer Relations
Dept 57130, Sauz
Volvo Car Corporation
SE-40531
Goteborg
SWEDEN

e-mail: gcr@volvocars.com

Patrick

[Muscas]

Found this on the S80 Forum:

"Hi across the pond,
I saw this post at Volvoxc.com. I hope you will not be offended.
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showpo...03&postcount=7

Some ideas.
The US letter is posted at http://matthewsvolvosite.com click on 'Volvo Forum' then 'Don's ETM Room' then click on 'The ETM letter to owners." Some of these have been sent out but not all of them. You might use this as ammunition but I doubt if it will work.

Also look at 'Troubleshooting' at http://vexedvolvo.org to see the hoops that the dealer has to jump though before they get to replacing the ETM.

Look at the 'Beyond North America" for a couple of success stories and the company line that Volvo is feeding you.

Can you bargain with the dealer that you will pay his cost for the ETM and he contribute the labor and keep your good will.

I think someone mentioned a law that says 'The product is not suitable for the indended use'. I think you can prove this. It is a part that should not fail, but if it is impossible to build 'no fail' replacement, there shoud be a way to inspect the part and replace the throttle position sensor.

Can you get the names of people that have sent e-mails to Watchdog. You might get them organized.

Where is Volvo UK located, probably not more than a days journey from most of the UK? Make you some posters and park as many Volvos as you can get in front of the office. Then slowly drive though some major cities, I understand that you are forbidden to drive in central London.

Among the volvoclub.org.uk you are bound to have a solicitor (lawyer) that might be interested in getting involved on a pro bono (free) basis.

Again, If you want me to keep the mailing list I am willing. I only send out messages by bcc (blind copy) so no one else can see or reply to them.

Don Willson
DonWillson@comcast.net
http://vexedvolvo.org "

[sixfootblonde]

Where is Volvo UK located, probably not more than a days journey from most of the UK? Make you some posters and park as many Volvos as you can get in front of the office. Then slowly drive though some major cities, I understand that you are forbidden to drive in central London.


What a fantastic idea! If only we could get together to do this - Volvo would HATE it! :Dancing_chief: Would it do any good? Probably not :baring_teeth: :emoticon_U:

But it would be fun seeing Volvo UK sucking a lemon as banner-wielding, stuttering Volvo drivers jerk around the cities LOL

[ollieoxford]

Anyone have a friendly MP in need of a band-wagon? Or connections with the media wanting to film a story? If we were to organise such a protest, one would need to ensure maximum media exposure. Though I suspect, attempts to organise such an event through these discussion groups will result in it being "removed" since contrary to forum rules!

I am somewhat disappointed with VOC response to this you may gather, and will not be renewing my membership next year.

I sincerely hope Volvo PR are monitoring this discussion group, since if I was them, I'd be starting to get very worried. (And if they're NOT monitoring this discussion group, then they are incompetent and doing a dis-service to their senior management).

I am that angry with Volvo's inadequate response to this issue having been a loyal happy Volvo owner for many years, that I have considered a completely factual information advert in the Sunday motoring press to draw maximum attention to this issue. (Donations anyone?).

What we want, is not a reconditioned part which will fail sooner (due both to remanufacturing and the "fail-safe" software upgrade), but a redesigned part such as in the later 2002/3 models with a non-contacting throttle position sensor.

Yes, my 3rd ETM unit has now started acting "tempremental" within 1500 miles of being replaced. Should this unit subsequently fail, I will be making a compensation claim for damages as well as its replacement costs.

[volvo2]

For information - I have now asked BBA Reman twice (via email) whether their remanufactured units have the same defect as the original, i.e. will also fail prematurely. As they have not responded I assume they do!

Melvyn




The other question I have is what about these remanufactured units? BBA Remanufacturers offer replacements and say the old unit should be sent to them because of the software transfer. Is this right?

I really object to being held over a barrel by Volvo on this![/QUOTE]

[volvo2]

I am that angry with Volvo's inadequate response to this issue having been a loyal happy Volvo owner for many years, that I have considered a completely factual information advert in the Sunday motoring press to draw maximum attention to this issue. (Donations anyone?).


I would be happy to make a donation if we could keep the expenditure low by spreading the cost between many of us. As I think you have identified, we would need to avoid exposing ourselves to possible libel action.

PunkDebutante - did you not say you are a lawyer (or have legal training of some sort...)?

Melvyn

[Rbphot]

[QUOTE]

Where is Volvo UK located, probably not more than a days journey from most of the UK? Make you some posters and park as many Volvos as you can get in front of the office. Then slowly drive though some major cities, I understand that you are forbidden to drive in central London.



I've been following this thread, for some while, I know how Volvo UK brush off problems when you contact them as I did about my 480 which I owned several years ago, the alternator reversed charged the electrics and fried everything, ECU,dials,heater,battery(£2000 to fix and this was in 1994).

They bury there heads in the sand, a staged picket of the Volvo UK HQ would be a the best thing, make sure the national press and media are invited, not multinational can afford bad publicity, look whats happened to macDonalds after supersize me, stores closed, job loses.

Volvo have just spent millions on the new advertising for the new models, so it's not a matter of money, they should be loyal to there customers, especially as they knew about the problem before the model came out(read about this on one of the US sites).

Don't get me wrong I love the volvo's I've owned, for the safety, reliablility, but as there's a problem with both of the above for the year 99-03, Volvo should just own up and fix it with a redesigned ETM.

As for the VOC position, you need to stand behind you membership, this is exactly why I have been put off from joining!

Ray

[thebiggt]

I am the not so proud owner of a C70, with what seems to be ETM related problems, and I wondered if there had been any update on this issue over the last couple of weeks?

Have volvo finally bitten the bullet and agreed to replace the ETM's no questions asked, no bills raised? Or has the software revamping had the desired effect ( I read it's due to be available in April)? Or has everyone given up the fight?

I've read all the posts, but there doesn't seem to be a conclusion on the best course of action. If I understand it all there are a few options -

1) Go to a volvo main garage, get the unit replaced and suffer the cost yourself, but feel better about having a safer car.

2) Get the kent based company (i forgot the name - is it BBA?) to refresh your existing unit, for a lower price, but not gauranteed to work.

3) Wait until it fails enough to pressure Volvo into giving you a goodwill discount/ refund to the cost of replacing it (again the replacement is only gauranteed to work for 12 months) - though a failure might occur when you are doing 'motorway speeds' - not pretty

4) Sell the bloody thing, kick yourself for being idiotic enough to believe Volvo are a company that could be trusted with your safety, and buy a vauxhall.

Although option 4 is very tempting (particularly when it's my better half who drives the car), I think it's only fair to let volvo try to rectify the problem, does anyone have any advice on the best way to broach the subject with my local Volvo garage?

Yours more in hope than in expectation,

gordon

[sixfootblonde]

Hi all,

If anyone is still reading this thread - we had our ETM fixed with BBA (From Ebay). It arrived back and the garage came out and refitted it. It did not work! We were gutted. THought we would have to pay the full amount. :'( Then my dad thought that for that amount of money he wanted to refit it himself to make sure all instructions were carried out properly. So, he put it bacck in the car (mechanic had taken it out after it did not work). Dad turned the ignition on for 20 mins (or whatever BBA's instructions say) and hey presto - THE CAR WORKS PERFECTLY! I can highly recommend the BBA reconditioning. They give a 2 year guarantee (more than Volvo!) and as long as the instructions are followed correctly, it worked! If it doesn't work they give you a full refund so you have very little to lose.

Good luck! :)

[DougB]

I have a May '99 V70 AWD 2.5T. Early March this year my ETS light came on. The engine became slightly rough when this happened but no real problem. The light cleared itself after the engine was switched off and on. The car was in at the local Volvo dealer a week or two later for its 100k service. They said the diagnostics code indicated a problem with the throttle module, but there was no need to fix it immediately, just drive the car away and see what happened. They also quoted £600 to fix it, so I was quite happy not to have to replace it!

Anyway, over the next few weeks the ETS light came on a few more times, each time the engine became a bit rough but it always cleared itself if the engine was switched off and on (just like the manual says to do). At the end of April, the engine started to get quite rough, but with no ETS light on. After about 15 miles it lost most of its power (still no ETS or any other warning light), but by this time I was half a mile from home and able to get there OK. The car could not be driven so was taken on the back of a lorry to the Volvo dealer who diagnosed that it needed a new throttle module (ETM), for a mere £600!! This included £375 for the part (it is the Volvo 8644347 part) plus £27 for uploading new software, plus labour, plus VAT.

After collecting the car another engine warning light came on after about 20 minutes. I took it straight back to the garage, who said it was the lambda (aka oxygen) sensor. The senior technician said it was almost certainly failing because it had been driven with a faulty ETM over the previous few weeks. They cleared the fault code, cleaned the contacts to the sensor and told me to drive it away and see what happened. A couple of days later and the warning light came back on, with a noticeable increase in petrol consumption and a smell of petrol from the exhaust. So today it was back in at the Volvo dealer. This time they said it did need the new oxygen sensor, for £285.

I had a discussion with the service manager, who insisted that the ETM and sensors would be expected to only last about 100k and while he understood that £900 in the space of a a week was a lot, it was the expected life of the parts. No mention of any known problem with the ETM. He also insisted that the faulty ETM would not have caused the problem with the oxygen sensor, in contradiction to his technician. However in the end he agreed to knock £80 off the cost of fitting the sensor.

So, feeling that 100k was not a lot to get out of these parts I needed to get armed with some facts and so started surfing the net and here I am. Another disgruntled Volvo owner, with a dealer that has been less than straight.

Anyone else had problems with oxygen (lambda) sensors after an ETM problem??

Thanks

[Oli]

Hello Doug B,

Sorry to hear about your ETM, etc. In the US, Volvo have implemented a 200k/10 year warranty extension for this problem. They claim it's due to environmental issues and being forced to do so by a govt. agency in California. However, they are under a full investigation for this issue being a safety risk.

The UK govt dept responsible for this kind of stuff is also reviewing what action Volvo should be taking. Must chase them for an update. The general consensus here is that a redesign/recall is needed, not just a replacement unit with the same inherent design fault.

Some members here have complained directly to Volvo Cars UK and received varying levels of financial help with the cost of replacement. Why not give them a call, nothing to loose.

Oli

[ollieoxford]

If my memory serves me correctly, were we not promised on BBC Watchdog, a software upgrade to the ETM which would "solve the problem"???

Does anyone know any further about this, or what has happened? Has anyone had the said "upgrade" and can vouch for it? Whilst I seriously doubt that a software patch can fix a mechanical wear problem, it would be useful to know what is happening.

Also - does anyone have any further feedback from VOSA?

Thanks

[Track_Rod]

As I am (or was) about to purchase a V70 to replace my ageing Wentworth, I have read this thread with great interest.

I asked of BBA-reman what they actually did if I were to send them a failed ETM unit I.e. did they replace the potentiometer tracks, update any software etc etc.. This was their somewhat surprising response ;

"At present we can not help you with the repair of this unit. We have had a couple of warrenty issues, and are trying to resolve this before we take any more on.
Hopefully soon we can help, but presently we can't."

So that rather blocks that avenue leaving me in the hands of a Volvo dealership. Judging by the responses from Volvo to date, I consider this good enough reason to look at The VW Passat offerings.

[Oli]

Track Rod,

You should have noted from the different posts on this topic, the date ranges that are effected. There are earlier 850/v70s with a manual system that don't use this unit, and later models, post 2001 I think, don't have this problem either.

Therefore, if you're really concerned about it, the risk can be avoided as can moving to VW.

What age car were you thinking of getting?

Oli

[Track_Rod]

Oli, I haven't finished my 'research' as yet but it is very likely to be a V70 in the age range 1998-2001 so I reckon that puts me well within the problem range of vehicles.

I have a few test drives lined up next week and will quizz the relevant independent Volvo specialists about their take and experience on the ETM matter. Could be interesting and I'll report back.

TR

[volvo2]

Ollie,

I have been pursuing this with VOSA and BBC Watchdog on and off over the last few months. Unfortunately Watchdog no longer seem to be so interested. There was supposed to be a meeting between Volvo and VOSA during the week commencing 24th April. I have sent a couple of e-mails to VOSA (my last was yesterday) asking about the outcome but so far have received no reply.

Melvyn

[upv5]

I've been following this thread with interest because my V70R has the ETM, we know Volvo's response in the USA and in the UK but does anyone know what Volvo have done about this in Sweden. Has the club or any individual got connections that could tell us if the UK experience is being repeated in the rest of Europe.

I'm now at 70000 miles with no problems yet - touch wood!

John

[volvo2]

Today VOSA informed me that following discussions they have received confirmation from Volvo that an action to address the ETM issue has been agreed.

The action to contact consumers is not expected to start until about four week’s time. Apparently the action will be progressive in that those who have reported problems will be dealt with first.

VOSA also inform me that Volvo have suggested that in due course individuals affected should contact the Customer Care Dept at Marlow (08457 564636) - though when I did this I was told that they know nothing about this new action and that only the preventative software upgrade is currently available. So I am not sure what is going on. Maybe we need to wait a while. For what it's worth, I might add that the reception I received on calling Volvo was extremely frosty.

Melvyn

[Track_Rod]

Nice work Volvo2 wrt VOSA. I have found them helpful when I have dealt with them in the past about a totally different matter.

I still can't quite understand the take on the software upgrade being a 'preventative' measure when the excessive wear on the potentiometer tracks seems to be the issue. Unless of course, I have misinterpreted what I have read.

[peterclivemartin]

I have been following this forum with interest and thought I would check my C70 (july 02) to see if I have the faulty housing fitted - sure enough Magneti Marelli label on the housing. The car was bought having done 16,000 miles, now having done 22,000 miles. It runs well but will not accelerate from a standing start very well, so the unit could be faulty. When we bought the car the ETM light was on and the local dealer reset it and said if it came on again to bring it back. It hasn't come on yet. Volvo Uk have said that a software update will be available soon which will help - though if it is a mechanical fault I don't see how!

Just as an aside - before this we owned another 'Ford' , a Landrover Discovery. These vehicles also have built in faults - after 30,000 miles the alarm packs up - the cure is to hot wire the ignition, no replacement available, 40,000 the viscous fan seizes, cure remove and fit electric fan, 50,000 miles the catalytic converters fail (sounds like nuts and bolts rattling in a tin bucket (cost for part £1400 plus fitting), the sunroofs leak and the aluminium to steel battery effect on the doors means that the tops of the doors corrode. Before the engine cylinder liner crack fault at 70,000 miles we sold it!

I think we may sell the C70 - it is a beautiful car - but having a potential £700 fault inevitable takes the fun out of ownership!

[Oli]

......Volvo Uk have said that a software update will be available soon which will help - though if it is a mechanical fault I don't see how!.......I think we may sell the C70 - it is a beautiful car - but having a potential £700 fault inevitable takes the fun out of ownership!

I think the software changes are safety related, in that should a fault with the unit develop whilst driving along, the current software may put the car into limp home mode. In this state, speed is limited to about 40mph. The updated software only puts the car into limp home mode the next time the car is started after a fault has developed. Therefore, the car will start off in limp home mode and not switch to it whilst driving along.

So you're right, this software change does not solve the mechanical problem, but does improve the way the car will cope with the problem should it arise.

Also note that there are a lot of Volvos that were produced using this unit that have done many many more miles than your C70 with no signs whatsoever of this problem. Let's see what the proposed fix will be now that VOSA have had a hand in the issue.

Oli

[volvo2]

My fear is that they may just be fiddling with software rather than correcting the underlying mechanical problem. The latter clearly costs more to correct and is the only real solution.

Has anyone else tried calling Volvo Customer Care?

Melvyn

[Don Willson]

If my memory serves me correctly, were we not promised on BBC Watchdog, a software upgrade to the ETM which would "solve the problem"???

Does anyone know any further about this, or what has happened? Has anyone had the said "upgrade" and can vouch for it? Whilst I seriously doubt that a software patch can fix a mechanical wear problem, it would be useful to know what is happening.

Also - does anyone have any further feedback from VOSA?

Thanks

In March 2006 Volvo released new software for the Volvo with the Magneti Marelli ETMs. The Service Manager Bulletin (SMB 25-155). It said, in brief:

"The software upgrade contains changes that will allow the system to better differentiate between glitches of minor disturbances, and real system faults. The software upgrade will also reduce idle oscillations caused by dirt build-up in the throttle. The Electronic Throttle System software upgrade should be installed into the customer’s vehicle at the first service opportunity, when the customer requests or consents to the upgrade"

Don Willson says: (Be sure to note the word ‘should’. You and I know that ‘should’ ain’t good enough. ‘Will’ is positive, keep pushing this point. Remember in the Music Man they were talking about being stubborn and said, “You can stand touching noses ---- and still not see eye to eye.” That is where we are now, We say, “Will it fix the problem,” and they say, “It should.” We know and they cannot help but know, that a software change will not fix a mechanical problem.)

Later is says, "Retailers are to perform this campaign on eligible vehicles regardless of mileage/kilometers or vehicle age. The campaign work covered under Service Campaign 155 is free of charge to the owner."

Don Willson says; At the same time Service Manager Bulletin 25-149 details the extended warranty. It says;

“Only repairs or replacements required based on the diagnosis and which is a result of an Electronic Throttle System failure will be covered by this extended warranty and performed at no charge.”

Service Campaign, as detailed in SMB 25-155 Electronic Throttle System Software Upgrade, makes no mention that it is for North America only. However, SMB 25-149 Electronic Throttle Module (ETM) Extended Warranty specifically says, ‘Volvo Cars of North America --- has voluntarily decided to extend the warranty period ---

That is what I know as of now.

Don Willson
VEXEDvolvo@comcast.net
http://vexedvolvo.org

[Track_Rod]

If it of any interest, I emailed Volvo Global Customer Relations regarding my potential purchase of a used V70 and my concerns about the ETM. This is the reply ;

QUOTE "Thank you for your email dated 18th May 2006. We understand that you are interested in buying a used Volvo V70 and are requesting information with regards to the Electronic Throttle Module.

We would like to inform you that on the UK market, the issue with the ETM will be looked at on a case to case basis. Any consideration that Volvo Car UK Ltd make would be as a gesture of goodwill. Age, mileage and Volvo service history (incorrect servicing has the potential to reduce the longevity of the unit) the nature of the issue and any denied usage are factors that will be taken into account. If you were to buy a Volvo V70 through one of the UK's authorised dealerships as a Selected Used Car it would automatically come with 12 months Volvo Assistance (roadside recovery package managed by RAC) and a 12 month/20,000 mile Selected Used Car Warranty for added peace of mind.

In your email you also mentioned the software upgrade availability. Volvo Car UK Ltd are waiting for the Technical Department in Sweden to provide them with the updated software. As soon as it arrives, it will be available to the Volvo dealerships to download to customers' vehicles.

We hope this information will give you a better picture of the situation on the UK market. We would like to thank you for taking the time to contact us."END

So it appears there are some differing pieces of information out there !

[Oli]

In March 2006 Volvo released new software for the Volvo with the Magneti Marelli ETMs. The Service Manager Bulletin (SMB 25-155). It said, in brief:

"The software upgrade contains changes that will allow the system to better differentiate between glitches of minor disturbances, and real system faults. The software upgrade will also reduce idle oscillations caused by dirt build-up in the throttle............

Thanks for the note Don. I know you've done quite a lot of research and campaigning on this topic in the US. In your experience can this problem with the ETM manifest itself on a random/intermittent basis? Occasionally my car will cough a splutter, and just the other morning it cut out whilst I was sitting in a queue of traffic (cold engine though). However, it's not just at start up or idle that this will happen. Even driving at motorway speeds the car will very occasionally stutter, as if fuel isn't getting fed through properly.

The car's coming up for a service soon, and I was going to ask for the fuel filter to be checked/cleaned or changed, hoping that it could be that simple.

Your comments would be welcome.

Regards

Oli

[kevham]

After 3 years and 50,000 miles of V70 ownership, I decided to bail out before the ETM problem became terminal. My car had been running rough for 2.5 years and after having the throttle cleaned in February, it ran better for about a week. After that it became very hesitant and power delivery was not good.
Since Volvo had not contacted me in April for my 'software upgrade' and since I am now ferrying about my 8 week old son, I decided to change cars.
So, I've traded it in for a Skoda Octavia! Yes, a Skoda.
2 days before I changed the cars over, the Volvo power steering pump packed in so my timing seems to have been impeccable.
So, whilst I miss the comfy, heated electric memory leather seats, at least I now have a car which works and believe it or not, the boot is bigger than the V70!.
Anyway, good luck to you all with getting something out of Volvo over this issue.

[scoffbelly]

I dont like the idea of being first to try the software upgrade if it does nothing to fix the problem. I wont be getting the software upgrade done until someone braver than me has it done and reports no adverse effects / bugs etc.

[Muscas]

Reading between the lines, the software "upgrade" is Volvo's attempt at trying to convince the public that the problem has been solved. Either way the car is still unsafe!

Patrick

[addyman]

Just bought a 1999 v70T5....and then it started to surge and stutter, took it back to the dealer, no problem, only a camshaft valve causing the problem, replaced that they said as per the Vadis fault code.....no other faults though they did upgrade the ETM software i see on the receipt.....car still has the stutter and now, thankfully, theETS light has come on and they will hopefully replace the ETM.

I am lucky as it was bought from a dealer and still under guarentee, can safely say that with the software update the problem was still there, though remembering this is my experience with it and may not be applicable to others...

adrian

[Don Willson]

Thanks for the note Don. I know you've done quite a lot of research and campaigning on this topic in the US. In your experience can this problem with the ETM manifest itself on a random/intermittent basis? Occasionally my car will cough a splutter, and just the other morning it cut out whilst I was sitting in a queue of traffic (cold engine though). However, it's not just at start up or idle that this will happen. Even driving at motorway speeds the car will very occasionally stutter, as if fuel isn't getting fed through properly.

The car's coming up for a service soon, and I was going to ask for the fuel filter to be checked/cleaned or changed, hoping that it could be that simple.

Your comments would be welcome.

Regards

Oli

As the ETM is beginning to fail it will give erroneous feedback to the throttle computer and the computer tries to correct based on bad information. I think the ETM could very well be your problem. Ask for the March 2006 software update, but keep pushing for an extended warranty before someone is hurt or worse.

Don Willson
http://vexedvolvo.org
vexedvolvo@comcast.net

[Oli]

Thanks for the note Don, makes sense unfortunately. I've reported the problem to my dealer a couple of times over the last year, but no real comment from them. The usual thing is that no codes are logged, so difficult to tell what the problem is. Will specifically ask for the software update ASAP.

We're all now waiting to hear what Volvo has agreed to do about this problem now that our own government's VOSA department has been involved. Fingers crossed for a proper/physical fix.

Regards

Oli

[Jasgb]

I'm glad to see some action on the ETS problem. Mine failed at 71000 miles while my wife was overtaking a truck at 60 mph on a three lane road... not even slightly amusing. It failed several yimes after that and eventually the car became undriveable. After contacting various people, including Don Willson at Vexed Volvo, I ended up having the throttle body replaced at Stratstone's, our local dealer, who were very helpful. Volvo, however, are refusing to offer any money towards the work because there is a gap in the service history of the car (last main dealer service november 2004 at 64000 miles, no work in 2005 because the car was out of use for most of the year).

This is not a service related problem and is, in spite of what the Volvo Club say a safety issue. How dangerous does it have to be? Unexpected and devastating loss of power in the middle of a three lane road? Stories of the same on the motorway at 70mph +?

Volvo say they are paying up in America because of the tougher emission regulations there but this is not an emissions issue either! It's caused, as I understand, by a software malfunction and should be Volvo's responsibility.

Add my name to the list, please and help get my £580 back!

James Brunning
Gisburn
Lancashire
V70 2.5SE December 1997, fsh to 64000.

Help!