Wheels/Tyres: Nokian - mytyres.co.uk

[gevans55]

Okay - here is why I made the post about the "irregular internet transaction processing requirement" and mytres.co.uk

I ordered 4 tyres through their website using the Shopsafe Network option. No problem with that and no problem with that transaction being authorised by my credit card provider.

I then received the email below from mytyres.co.uk@delti.com;

"Email fraud prevention in the UK:
We refer to your tyre order RDNNNNNNNN dated 08.01.2009 12:29. Because of data security rules we need a proof of identity from our customers to ensure a high level of fraud prevention. So, please fax your last electricity bill / gas bill for address confirmation purposes to the following fax number: 01212103330

We will process your order immediately after confirmation.

Please note: If we do not receive a confirmation within 5 days we can only process your order if you transfer the outstanding amount to our account. In this case, we will send you another email with the bank details.

Please inform us if you still wish to continue with this order.

Thank you for your cooperation.

RDNNNNNNN: 4 x Nokian WR sport utility 235/60 R18 107V XL (Wi)

Delticom Tyres Ltd.,9 Thames Street,Charlbury,Oxford,OX7 3QL
Telephone: 0800 3286532, Fax: 0049-89-208080815
Directors: Rainer Binder, Philip von Grolman, Frank Schuhardt, VAT: 768438579
Bank account (BACS payments [UK]): Commerzbank London Branch, account number 20737320, Sort Code 40-62-01
Bank account (Only foreign payments): Commerzbank London Branch, Commerzbank house, PO Box 286, 23 Austin Friars, London EC2P 2JD,
Account no 160/2073732/00, Sort Code 40-62-01, SWIFT: COBAGB2XXXX, IBAN: GB82COBA40620120737320
Payments by cheque: Please use Delticom Ltd as beneficiary."

This email raised alarm bells with me for a number of reasons.

First, as I mentioned above, the transaction had already been authorised by my credit card provider so mytyres.co.uk had no need to make a secondary identification. Next, as I was not applying for a credit account there is no need for the merchant to try to make secondary identification. Thirdly, passing on a fax or email copy of a utility bill proves nothing to anyone about the email address used for the transaction so it cannot reduce email fraud (more on this later), and lastly it means a third party can now use that utility bill copy as a means of passing themselves off as me in a future transaction.

Note I am not saying that mytyres.co.uk were going to do this - I said a third party.

At this point, I phoned mytres.co.uk and discussed their requirement for this form of "identification" with them. All that they could say was "It is company policy". Their representative could not explain what was behind that company policy nor could he explain how providing this information would confirm either a) my email address, b) confirm that I was legitimately the person who received that utility bill nor c) confirm that the person he was communicating with was in fact the bona fide holder of the credit card used for the transaction.

I declined to provide the utility bill copies and asked instead how he would like to proceed. He stated that I could fax or email my drivers licence or bank statements (?????) or I could transfer money to their account to pay for the tyres and the transaction would proceed. I made it clear that none of those things was going to happen, as there was already a valid transaction in progress that my credit card provider had authorised. In short, mytryes.co.uk already had a legitimate payment from me.

I asked to speak to a manager and was informed that there were none in the office. I asked if a manager could phone me when they returned and was told no. So, by this stage I am definitely not amused at having my time wasted or amused by the odd operational practices of this company.

I then asked for the order to be cancelled and for all my details to be removed from their database, as they now had no legitimate right to retain them. I also asked that mytyres.co.uk process the necessary transaction to credit my credit card to cancel the debit they had made to it earlier. At this point, I was informed that mytyres.co.uk had not processed any transaction to my account and so that would not be necessary.

I bid them a farewell and phoned my credit card provider to discuss the above. At this time, they again confirmed a transaction had been processed and that my account had indeed been debited by mytyres.co.uk. When I relayed all the above information to my bank they were as suspicious as I was. I will not bore you with the details of the conversation I had with my credit card provider. Suffice it to say they were not impressed.

For the reasons above I am uncomfortable with using mytyres.co.uk and decided to make a short post that warned of irregularities in their transaction processing activities.

As far as the readers /posters on the forum go, here is some additional information and responses to points raised:

a) I have been in IT for 20+ years and historically have been involved with identification processes for many years. I have also been an on line buyer for many years and have processed some 1000+ transactions online and always by credit card. Never have I been asked to do what mytyres.co.uk asked me to do after the transaction had been authorised. Hence my comment that this is an "irregular internet transaction processing requirement"

b) TEM - I agree that mytyres.co.uk uses a secure payments process; there is no dispute with that. What my issue is is that identification has been performed by my bank and credit card provider through the Shopsafe network. In my experience, as soon as anyone, no matter how diligent they may think they are being steps outside that process as mytyres.co.uk have done they immediately open the door for a third party to acquire information that can then be used to initiate fraudulent activity.

c) TEM - you state "I feel that you need to be more specific, about the problem and you should think very carefully, about mentioning "Names", as something like this, shut down this forum, for months, last year." It is important to note that I have said nothing defamatory about mytyres.co.uk. I have simply issued a warning based on my experience with them as their business process and policy "opens the way for a particular type of credit card fraud to take place"

d) Lastly, eMail - the electronic equivalent of a postcard. Need I say more about using that a method of gathering identity confirmation information?

Now - does anyone have an answer To Part 2 of my original post? Thanks

[Ron_XC90]

I don't think many sell the Nokian tyres. On the mytyres website you can search for local fitting stations. Have you tried contacting them to see if they can supply Nokian tyres?

[tem]

Originally Posted by gevans55

Okay - here is why I made the post about the "irregular internet transaction processing requirement" and mytres.co.uk

I ordered 4 tyres through their website using the Shopsafe Network option. No problem with that and no problem with that transaction being authorised by my credit card provider.

I then received the email below from mytyres.co.uk@delti.com;

"Email fraud prevention in the UK:
We refer to your tyre order RDNNNNNNNN dated 08.01.2009 12:29. Because of data security rules we need a proof of identity from our customers to ensure a high level of fraud prevention. So, please fax your last electricity bill / gas bill for address confirmation purposes to the following fax number: 01212103330

We will process your order immediately after confirmation.

Please note: If we do not receive a confirmation within 5 days we can only process your order if you transfer the outstanding amount to our account. In this case, we will send you another email with the bank details.

Please inform us if you still wish to continue with this order.

Thank you for your cooperation.

RDNNNNNNN: 4 x Nokian WR sport utility 235/60 R18 107V XL (Wi)

Delticom Tyres Ltd.,9 Thames Street,Charlbury,Oxford,OX7 3QL
Telephone: 0800 3286532, Fax: 0049-89-208080815
Directors: Rainer Binder, Philip von Grolman, Frank Schuhardt, VAT: 768438579
Bank account (BACS payments [UK]): Commerzbank London Branch, account number 20737320, Sort Code 40-62-01
Bank account (Only foreign payments): Commerzbank London Branch, Commerzbank house, PO Box 286, 23 Austin Friars, London EC2P 2JD,
Account no 160/2073732/00, Sort Code 40-62-01, SWIFT: COBAGB2XXXX, IBAN: GB82COBA40620120737320
Payments by cheque: Please use Delticom Ltd as beneficiary."

This email raised alarm bells with me for a number of reasons.

First, as I mentioned above, the transaction had already been authorised by my credit card provider so mytyres.co.uk had no need to make a secondary identification. Next, as I was not applying for a credit account there is no need for the merchant to try to make secondary identification. Thirdly, passing on a fax or email copy of a utility bill proves nothing to anyone about the email address used for the transaction so it cannot reduce email fraud (more on this later), and lastly it means a third party can now use that utility bill copy as a means of passing themselves off as me in a future transaction.

Note I am not saying that mytyres.co.uk were going to do this - I said a third party.

At this point, I phoned mytres.co.uk and discussed their requirement for this form of "identification" with them. All that they could say was "It is company policy". Their representative could not explain what was behind that company policy nor could he explain how providing this information would confirm either a) my email address, b) confirm that I was legitimately the person who received that utility bill nor c) confirm that the person he was communicating with was in fact the bona fide holder of the credit card used for the transaction.

I declined to provide the utility bill copies and asked instead how he would like to proceed. He stated that I could fax or email my drivers licence or bank statements (?????) or I could transfer money to their account to pay for the tyres and the transaction would proceed. I made it clear that none of those things was going to happen, as there was already a valid transaction in progress that my credit card provider had authorised. In short, mytryes.co.uk already had a legitimate payment from me.

I asked to speak to a manager and was informed that there were none in the office. I asked if a manager could phone me when they returned and was told no. So, by this stage I am definitely not amused at having my time wasted or amused by the odd operational practices of this company.

I then asked for the order to be cancelled and for all my details to be removed from their database, as they now had no legitimate right to retain them. I also asked that mytyres.co.uk process the necessary transaction to credit my credit card to cancel the debit they had made to it earlier. At this point, I was informed that mytyres.co.uk had not processed any transaction to my account and so that would not be necessary.

I bid them a farewell and phoned my credit card provider to discuss the above. At this time, they again confirmed a transaction had been processed and that my account had indeed been debited by mytyres.co.uk. When I relayed all the above information to my bank they were as suspicious as I was. I will not bore you with the details of the conversation I had with my credit card provider. Suffice it to say they were not impressed.

For the reasons above I am uncomfortable with using mytyres.co.uk and decided to make a short post that warned of irregularities in their transaction processing activities.

As far as the readers /posters on the forum go, here is some additional information and responses to points raised:

a) I have been in IT for 20+ years and historically have been involved with identification processes for many years. I have also been an on line buyer for many years and have processed some 1000+ transactions online and always by credit card. Never have I been asked to do what mytyres.co.uk asked me to do after the transaction had been authorised. Hence my comment that this is an "irregular internet transaction processing requirement"

b) TEM - I agree that mytyres.co.uk uses a secure payments process; there is no dispute with that. What my issue is is that identification has been performed by my bank and credit card provider through the Shopsafe network. In my experience, as soon as anyone, no matter how diligent they may think they are being steps outside that process as mytyres.co.uk have done they immediately open the door for a third party to acquire information that can then be used to initiate fraudulent activity.

c) TEM - you state "I feel that you need to be more specific, about the problem and you should think very carefully, about mentioning "Names", as something like this, shut down this forum, for months, last year." It is important to note that I have said nothing defamatory about mytyres.co.uk. I have simply issued a warning based on my experience with them as their business process and policy "opens the way for a particular type of credit card fraud to take place"

d) Lastly, eMail - the electronic equivalent of a postcard. Need I say more about using that a method of gathering identity confirmation information?

Now - does anyone have an answer To Part 2 of my original post? Thanks

I can see where you are coming from. This must be a new policy that they have addopted.
Phone friend who got tyres from them 4 months ago and he did not have to supply further information.

Point of interest:-

This week, I ordered an item off ebay. They would only accept Pay Pay and would only deliver to the "Verified", Pay Pal address. My understanding, they are doing this to cut down on Credit/Debit Card Fraud.

Nokian Tyres:-

From their web site, there is one retailer listed for the UK.

Tyrco Trading Ltd
Unit 7 Hackhurst Lane
Hackhurst Industrial Estate
East Sussex
BN27 4BR

tel:- +44(0)1323 844 600

tem.

[gevans55]

Thanks TEM I will check them out

[AB-UK]

gevans55,
Thank you - this is the detail I suggested should have been given.
I too take your point - however, and in answer to your Part 2, after fairly exensive internet research, and a considerable number of 'phone calls to tyre dealers around my area, I found no-one else who could or would supply Nokian WRs.
A couple of suppliers refused point blank on the grounds that they were unsafe for use in our climate.
Therefore, if I wanted the tyres I would have to comply - which I did. My tyres were down to the limit so I couldn't afford to wait much longer anyway.

I console myself with the thought that perhaps as the tyres were not to be delivered to my home address / credit card billing address, they simply wanted confirmation of a permanent abode rather than risk delivery to an otherwise anonymous customer.
Most of us take decisions on trust like this everyday - though it is obviously sensible to monitor bank accounts etc. afterwards in case anything untoward should occur. If something does happen and those details are subsequently used fraudulently, by dint of this "unorthodox" request MyTyres would have put themselves in the frame for complicity, so for this reason I doubt there is anything dodgy going on, imho of course.

[gevans55]

In the previous post there is a statement - "A couple of suppliers refused point blank on the grounds that they were unsafe for use in our climate" - I find that hilarious.

Why is it that "suppliers" who dont stock a product think that they gain kudos by slagging off something they know nothing about? All they do is alienate potential customers for other products they may sell.
Thanks for the info anyway - given the hassle in getting these Nokians I have given up and gone for Vredesteins instead - far less hassle to source

[AB-UK]

It seems the suppliers think these are "Winter" tyres and the tread is going to fall apart if they warm up too much - at least that's the gist of their objections.

[Blowpipe]

Originally Posted by tem

I can see where you are coming from. This must be a new policy that they have addopted.
Phone friend who got tyres from them 4 months ago and he did not have to supply further information.

I got my Nokians from them last October and was asked to fax a utility bill. Didn't really see the problem as they were an established company, and it seems to be a sensible way to stop them getting ripped off by people with dodgy credit cards. Haven't had any problems since, so I don't think there's any need to be unduly concerned.

[languageservicesco]

Originally Posted by Blowpipe

I got my Nokians from them last October and was asked to fax a utility bill. Didn't really see the problem as they were an established company, and it seems to be a sensible way to stop them getting ripped off by people with dodgy credit cards. Haven't had any problems since, so I don't think there's any need to be unduly concerned.

Can't see anything in this procedure that helps to achieve anything other then promote fraudulent activity. As the transaction was authorised, how does MyTyres get ripped off? Finally, if this is such a brilliant way of achieving the aims they allege are the goals of this process, how come nobody else does it? I for one won't be going back, but then I hope my WRs will last longer than my ownership of the car anyway :-)

I do take the point about MyTyres being an established company, but the danger is that this brings information into a domain where it is handled by humans and is thus liable to getting into the wrong hands, something that is virtually impossible with electronic verification systems, assuming somebody doesn't lose a DVD with everybody's details on it of course :-)

Just an idea: is it possible to copy the content of this thread and send it to them? Just might elicit a response.

Kevin

[tem]

A reply from Mytyres.

Read the "Privacy Policy"

The link is at the bottom of their home page.

tem.