Geartronic lag / Tuning kits

[nrobinson]

I was caught out today on a roundabout when i pulled out in front of a bus and was slow to accelerate. To be honest i should have known better as the car has always been like it since I've had it. I decided to do a bit of research tonight and quickly came across this thread which is quite old now and suggests it seems to be a common problem on early 163bhp xc90s with the geartronic box.

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showth...t=13862&page=8

The thread finishes but doesn't seem to come to any definite conclusion as to what the cause is.

Does anyone know if this discussion and solution to the problem has moved on?

Also early on in the thread there is discussion of tuning kits. I haven't considered one before but the extra power would certainly be nice when towing the caravan.
Are the claims true that the engine can be taken from 163bhp to 193bhp that simply.. and from the link below - that cheaply!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-Dies...item3aa61a007c

Has anyone experience of this kit or can recommend similar that is reasonably priced?

Thanks

Nick

[Tannaton]

** Caution - lots of rambling thoughts ahead which may not be factual **

Have been thinking about what to do about this topic a lot over recent years as it affects a large number of people including me. Here we go...

WITH regard to the tuning box: As we know engines need fuel and air to create power. With modern computer controlled engines it is relatively easy to alter how much fuel and air the engine gets under certain conditions to alter the characteristics. By far the best way is a "remap" which is changing the reference values and calculations that are stored in the ECU to alter the fuel and air supplied in a very specific way and as we know this can have significant results. RICA and MTE and others do this - cost is typically £300+

The cheaper alternatives are the tuning boxes as you have linked to - these usually alter the fuel and/or air settings by "frigging" the signal from one or more sensors on the engine - often the mass airflow meter. Whilst they do work to an extent, they are just a "tweak" rather than a re-map and will never be as effective as a remap.

I notice the seller you linked to has very good feedback though....

WITH regard to the "Geartronic delay..."

I get this on my car and it can be a real pain in the backside, but there are some cars that seem to have it much worse than others for no obvious reason....

A few people have mentioned the Turbo Nozzle Valve - I'm assuming they mean the Turbo Control Valve (TCV) which sits at the front of the engine behind the starter motor on the 163 E3 D5. The turbo is variable vane in that there are a series of flaps which move to control how much of the exhaust gases from the engine go to drive the turbine and hence how much boost is produced - this is the same function as the wastegate on petrol cars. In steady state the vanes are held shut by a spring (i.e. full boost) and a vacuum powered actuator controlled by the TCV opens the vanes to reduce the amount of gasses driving the turbine. The TCV is operated by the ECU and adjusted to give the correct boost pressure, a leaking TCV can cause premature operation of the vanes but this usually kills the power of the engine across all the rev range, and in most cases would cause the car to go into limp mode, "Engine Service Required" displayed due to inability to control boost pressure. i.e. a faulty TCV is most unlikely to manifest itself in geartronic delay only....

For many years I did think geartronic delay could be related to old and worn torque converters and poor quality oil that meant less torque from the engine was transferred to the gearbox and power was lost as heat in the TC. I've driven some high mileage cars (200k+) where the RPM of the engine seems higher either because the TC is worn or the oil is degraded. I have had off thread conversations with a number of members who have changed their oil using Volvo branded or AMSOIL and believe that this has improved their cars.

However I now wonder if the opposite is true (having spent a week driving my mums 1.6D C30 which is gutless below 1,500 rpm) in that the revs need to build quickly so the volume of exhaust gas can spin the turbo up to get the power needed for brisk acceleration. So a more "floppy" toqure converter that allows the engine revs to be higher for a given road speed might aid a quick getaway?

The other point I would make is that the 163 E3 D5 was in the early days of automatic diesels - the AW55 gearbox was probably originally designed for petrol engines with a greater rev range. It was also one of Volvo's early attempts at a more electronically managed gearbox with less buttons (i.e. not sport mode) and continual adaptation. Not all owners are aware that as well as the on-going adaptation, the characteristics of the gearbox change immediately based on driving style also - aside from a basic "kick down" function if you stamp on the accelerator the shift points and aggressiveness of shifts are changed compared to if you gently press the throttle pedal to the floor. As most of us XC90 owners are probably over 35 and not boy racers we are more likely to drive our cars with mechanical sympathy and not invoke this function. If you're curious, find a quiet country road and try accelerating from 40 - 70 using full throttle, firstly by gently pressing the accelerator pedal say over a 2 second period and then by stamping on it very quickly and you will see what I mean.....

The other points I would note is that if you look at the more expensive re-maps such as RICA - they do claim to reduce hesitation at set off. Also the neutral shift function on these gearbox (that only Volvo have implemented) is unrelated, it can drop the box back into first in milliseconds and only operates when you've been stationary (held by the brake) for 15 seconds or so. On the D5's using the AW55 box my understanding is that torque is limited to 350Nm in 1st and 2nd gear (not overall power...) and this due to limits of the gearbox.

If you made it to the end of this post then thank you.....

[gmonag]

I don't believe this issue has anything to do with the transmission, so the term "Geartronic Delay" is a misnomer.

It may well be an issue with the turbo IGVs as you have described but another possible cause, and one easy to fix, is dirty injectors. Run a dose of Liqui Moly Diesel Purge through the system (see SiRobb's youtube video). I did and the delay disappeared.

Also, if you use supermarket fuel all the time, as I do, it may help to fill up occasionally with the stupidly expensive Shell V-Max.

[galloot633]

This is my only real dislike of the car , and it effects 185's just as much as the earlier 165's, mines done it from the day I bought the car in 2010 ( its an 06 model) and its true some owners suffer it and some dont . As far as i am aware no one has found a definitive cure for it, I believe the delay is due to the torque converter/gearbox , not the lack of engine response, if you floor it and watch the tacho the revs will rise instantly before the car actually moves forward , the best answer someone gave , was because the box is adaptive it takes a while to alter its mode, so if youre a spirited driver the box will respond imediatly ( no delay ) but if you drive sympathetically ( like an old f*rt or me) the car will be slow to react initially , this to me makes the most sense , although Ive never noticed any sport/eco differences with the xc box like I did with my previous car, an s80
Dave

[galloot633]

Just read the above post and thats the first time Ive seen the delay to be cured
Dave

[Tannaton]

It may have helped in that one case but its not always that simple, I've used liqui moly (which I think is great) but still have the issues....

[Simon Jones]

I've read that the engine power is restricted when pulling away from standstill to help protect the gearbox from the torque.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by gmonag

I don't believe this issue has anything to do with the transmission, so the term "Geartronic Delay" is a misnomer.

The reason it's called Geartronic Delay is you don't hear owners of manual cars complaining about it, which does suggest that it is the gearbox (or that engine gearbox combination).

[steadvex]

From my experience a remap will sort it out, not sure how a plug in chip could.

At least with RICA it seems to remove the delay, even mentions it on their site, should also improve mpg and help with towing. Although if anything is worn it will accelerate the wear slightly