V50. Petrol or Diesel?

[GazT4]

Dont get cheeky just because you arent sitting next to me. Its not big and its not clever.

You crack me up, now your quoting diesel services that require DPF replacement!

We all know not to buy one with a DPF and most of us dont have one.

Also, our diesel tax and insurance is cheaper.

So what does that mean?



* Buy a diesel with DPF in Germany and its more expensive.

* Buy a diesel with no DPF in Germany and even though German diesel insurance/tax is more expensive, it probably still at least breaks even.

* Buy a petrol anywhere and be worse off.

* Buy a diesel in UK and its considerably cheaper.

If your going to have a debate, at least be civil.

[Daim]

I give up...

[GazT4]

Because you know im right!

Its ok, you can buy a diesel the next time!

[EricMe]

It's getting really silly.

If you're happy with the car you've got, enjoy it.

What's the point in telling someone else who's happy with what they've got that yours is 'better' ?

[GazT4]

The thread is 'petrol or diesel', nothing to do with anyones particular car being better than anyone elses.

My argument is that the diesel is better, so he should get a diesel.

Thats what the thread is about!?

[EricMe]

Originally Posted by GazT4

The thread is 'petrol or diesel', nothing to do with anyones particular car being better than anyone elses.

My argument is that the diesel is better, so he should get a diesel.

Thats what the thread is about!?

But nobody's actually adding anything new to the 'debate' !

All the points have been made several times & the poor sod who asked the question has probably lost interest.

[SonyVaio]

Well that all makes interesting reading.

I'm a diesel lover who has only just gone back to a petrol with my current T5 so I sit directly on top of the fence when it comes to Pertol or Diesel. Although my car is petrol the other half has a diesel. Petrol at the pump is cheaper to buy but then to be fair to most diesels you will get further in a diesel to the same amount of fuel.

I like and enjoy both types, i service them both and I insure them both.

Modern diesels are very good and as has been said they have great low down torque which gives good low down grunt which is good for everyday driving. Petrols have their upside too though and can offer vast money saving over a diesel throughout a vehicles lifetime IMHO.

If you bought 2 exact same brand new cars one petrol and one diesel and only drove 8 to 10,000 a year the petrol would be far more economical than the diesel in terms of cost, then if you up the mileage to 20,000 a year then the diesel will win hands down on overall costs.

To be fair in a comparison then you have to pick a Turbo Petrol against a Turbo Diesel just as you would have to pick a normal aspirated petrol against a normal aspirated diesel. In this instance you would get just as good get up and go from the petrol as you would the diesel with the added ability of revving higher thus needing less gear changes and ultimately providing less wear on the engine and gearbox.

Before I go on I have no idea about Volvo statistics wether or not more diesels made did or did not have the DPFs or DPFs with EOLYS or lifetime DPF's or infact had no DPF at all.

Petrols are very simple with not a great deal to go wrong and no great extras

Air, Oil, Fuel, pollen then every few years spark plugs

Extras - Brake fluid, clutch fluid, power steering fluid and coolant

Diesels for a normal service

Air, Oil, Fuel, Pollen and every few years glow plugs

Extras - Brake fluid, clutch fluid, power steering fluid, coolant, EOLYS fluid, DPF or DPF and EOLYS

So in general servicing terms the diesel is likely to cost about the same UNLESS it is indeed fitted with a DPF and especially ones fitted with DPF and EOLYS tank.

Now when you look at common problems over the life of a diesel compared to a petrol then for me it looks like this:

Turbo - both cars got one and it can fail on either with both expecting at least around 150,000 miles to a turbo (LPT Turbos expecting a little more life). If petrol is fitted with a LPT trubo then expect the that to last longer so in cost calculations will cost less overall.

Fuel Pump - You expect to last the life of a car but unfortunately most don't! If a diesel fuel pump fails then you are looking at a world of pain in the fact it can cost literally thousands of pound to fix. With a petrol you are looking at a fuel pump costing 1/10th that of a diesel. Talking about main (high pressure) fuel pumps here not those that may have a little secondary diesel one in the fuel tank.

Then there are other common problems which fortunately or unfortunately depending what side of the fence you sit on are mainly (but not always) attributable to running a diesel.

Flywheel - DMF failing (then as a subsiduary cost beyond the DMF itself in replacing clutch plate, thrust bearing and slave cylinder - although not always necessary I agree). I do agree that a DMF failing in not just on diesels but the falure rate is far higher on a diesel.

Swirl Flaps

EGR Valve

DPF (EOLYS)

What i therefor conclude is over the space of a lifetime of a modern diesel compared to that of a modern petrol the diesel would prove more expensive to run in overall costs. Let's not forget that a diesel often cost a great deal of money more to buy in the first place.

I will also conclude that if you purchase a second hand diesel and only keep for a few years then change for a newer car where you don't encounter some of the excess expenses (DMF, DPF (EOLYS), fuel pump) then the diesel will indeed prove more cost effective. But this is in a 'just add fuel senario' or a high mileage runner.

Of course I've gone generic with what has been written above and not gone manufacturer nor model specific. I like both petrol and diesel cars, they each have their own characteristics that may or may not suit you individually. The choice is up to you and you alone - you pays your money you takes your chance!

I've tried to be objective here and give a genuine unbiased appraisal.

[EricMe]

Well that sounded a much fairer comparison than some of the previous entries !

However, I'm not so sure about this point :-

Originally Posted by SonyVaio

To be fair in a comparison then you have to pick a Turbo Petrol against a Turbo Diesel just as you would have to pick a normal aspirated petrol against a normal aspirated diesel.

If you're comparing two engines of same swept volume, the petrol one would usually have a higher maximum power output than the diesel. To some extent you could say that bolting on the turbo redresses the balance.

As will be obvious from the autosig, I'm firmly in the diesel camp (and have been for the last 30 years). Maybe modern petrol engines are more reliable than the ones I remember but dampness on HT leads and spark plugs that sooted up at the drop of a hat remain vivid memories. I also like driving past a lot of filling stations !

Have to admit that petrol engines have their advantages - but nobody in the UK is going to benefit much from their willingness to approach double our speed limit and if you really need the extra acceleration boost they offer, you're probably pushing your luck.

[SonyVaio]

Originally Posted by EricMe

If you're comparing two engines of same swept volume, the petrol one would usually have a higher maximum power output than the diesel. To some extent you could say that bolting on the turbo redresses the balance.

I see your point on this and fair enough to an extent.

I was trying to be objective in the factor of them both having a turbo for calculating in costs. If we swing your way you then have to factor in the petrol has no turbo and the diesel will definitely need a turbo at some point in its life, then that is just another nail in coffin for the addition 'Life' costs of a diesel over a petrol?

I have to concede though that a turbo diesel like for like against a normal aspirated petrol of the same displacement would have me sitting in the diesel camp for general use.

[JABB]

I'm glad there are people on here interested in good debate, but I am no clearer now.
I think I will just look at all cars and pick a good one.
Thanks