What's the problem with electric cars?

[Forg]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

And the electricity to charge an EV is produced with fossil fuels...

Part of it.
There's no such thing as a complete solution to pretty-much anything, but "doing nothing at all" isn't even a partial or incremental solution.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by Forg

Part of it.
There's no such thing as a complete solution to pretty-much anything, but "doing nothing at all" isn't even a partial or incremental solution.

That is true. There’s always going to be emissions… It will never be truly zero. New ICE cars will no longer be produced by 2035, leaving only the used market for ICE vehicles or EV’s then.

I’m not entirely convinced of how “green” EV’s are. It’s not just infrastructure for EV’s that needs looking at. Cleaner ways to produce the energy required to charge and manufacture them also has to be considered. Huge investment is required globally.

I think people often forget that there may be no tail pipe emissions from an EV, but the electric to charge it doesn’t magically appear. If everyone is driving around in EV’s in future, will we really be tackling emissions? Taking into account that renewable energy to charge these cars isn’t totally “green” either. The more EV’s that are on the road, that increases the volume of the production of electricity to keep them going, which in turn increases emissions. We can’t rely solely on wind. Progress has been made, but like everything, its going to take a long time and a lot of money to produce more sustainable non-fossil fuel energy.

There is no easy solution, but we could be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

That is true. There’s always going to be emissions… It will never be truly zero. New ICE cars will no longer be produced by 2035, leaving only the used market for ICE vehicles or EV’s then.

I’m not entirely convinced of how “green” EV’s are. It’s not just infrastructure for EV’s that needs looking at. Cleaner ways to produce the energy required to charge and manufacture them also has to be considered. Huge investment is required globally.

I think people often forget that there may be no tail pipe emissions from an EV, but the electric to charge it doesn’t magically appear. If everyone is driving around in EV’s in future, will we really be tackling emissions? Taking into account that renewable energy to charge these cars isn’t totally “green” either. The more EV’s that are on the road, that increases the volume of the production of electricity to keep them going, which in turn increases emissions. We can’t rely solely on wind. Progress has been made, but like everything, its going to take a long time and a lot of money to produce more sustainable non-fossil fuel energy.

There is no easy solution, but we could be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

ICE cars will be still produced after 2035 and in their millions - just not sold in the uk and maybe Europe. It’s the same as saying my EV has no tailpipe emissions, when as a country we say aren’t we great we are net zero but we buy a load on stuff made in china…

Currently about 35% of the uk electricity is renewable (wind, solar). There is a huge difference between renewable and net zero (sustainable) - the latter (bio mass etc) is taking from Peter to pay Paul.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

ICE cars will be still produced after 2035 and in their millions - just not sold in the uk and maybe Europe. It’s the same as saying my EV has no tailpipe emissions, when as a country we say aren’t we great we are net zero but we buy a load on stuff made in china…

Currently about 35% of the uk electricity is renewable (wind, solar). There is a huge difference between renewable and net zero (sustainable) - the latter (bio mass etc) is taking from Peter to pay Paul.

I know ICE cars will still be produced, but not here. So it’ll be used ICE only, or new/used EV come 2035, in this country anyway. Unless some other alternative option comes out by then, or the Government change the deadline (again).

We’ll have to start erecting some more wind farms to generate power then. 35% ain’t going to cut it.

Lots to be done and lots of money required to do it.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

I know ICE cars will still be produced, but not here. So it’ll be used ICE only, or new/used EV come 2035, in this country anyway. Unless some other alternative option comes out by then, or the Government change the deadline (again).

We’ll have to start erecting some more wind farms to generate power then. 35% ain’t going to cut it.

Lots to be done and lots of money required to do it.

Yep I think most of that is undeniably true. I personally think the ICE ban deadline will be put back again, or abandoned, but with restrictions (perhaps petrol cars only under 1000cc etc.)

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

Yep I think most of that is undeniably true. I personally think the ICE ban deadline will be put back again, or abandoned, but with restrictions (perhaps petrol cars only under 1000cc etc.)

I think that may be true. Or if there's not engine size restrictions, there may be a rule on what euro emissions rating is deemed acceptable for petrol and diesel, like ULEZ, but across the country.

This is one way in them to get rid of old cars. Not good for the ones driving the older vehicles (myself included), but in a way, there's already restrictions and have been for years (just in certain places). I think that may change in future - A "blanket" approach. This is likely to happen if the 2035 deadline doesn't change. If it does change, then I guess they won't be doing any of this (yet). Its all speculative at the moment of course.

Whatever the EU say, we will follow.

[baggy798]

Future certainties:

1. It will be pushed back to 2040.
2. Most people on here will be long gone by that point.
3. If you're not gone you'll be paying more tax on everything.
4. My car will be tax, MOT, and ULEZ exempt so I can drive wherever with no penalty.
5. 90s car prices will start to really flourish.
6. I will be a sprightly 50 years old.

There's really nothing to worry about!

[Whippy]

Quite right too,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zjne2v0jo

🥸

[Tannaton]

Another interesting article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68947020

Pinning hopes on autonomous driving is their undoing, as it can only work if all cars on the road are autonomous. And just about every other car manufacturer has caught up with them on EV technology, and surpassed them on quality.

If they where a car company, as opposed to a software/tech company at heart, they would look to build affordable and practical models like the Dacia Spring and sell them to the masses. Every CEO and sales director has had an electric car now, what needs to happen next is to sell cheaper models to the masses - and in the UK that would be a sub £20k car but with a 170+ mile range.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

Another interesting article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68947020

Pinning hopes on autonomous driving is their undoing, as it can only work if all cars on the road are autonomous. And just about every other car manufacturer has caught up with them on EV technology, and surpassed them on quality.

If they where a car company, as opposed to a software/tech company at heart, they would look to build affordable and practical models like the Dacia Spring and sell them to the masses. Every CEO and sales director has had an electric car now, what needs to happen next is to sell cheaper models to the masses - and in the UK that would be a sub £20k car but with a 170+ mile range.

I agree that cheaper models need to come out with better range, but they can't sacrifice on safety too much. The Dacia Spring has a 1 star euro NCAP rating. For a new car to the market at this day and age, that's truly shocking.

Cheaper models, better range and good safety systems in an ideal world, but safety drives up the cost. People often say in the construction industry for example "safety has no cost"... I assure you it does.