Motorbikes above the law?????????

[sheerwater]

So the new front facing speed cameras cant catch motorbikes because they dont have front numberplates. Now we find that most councils are not charging for motorbike parking places. I also find that the congestion charge does not apply to motor bikes. What next ? no tax and insurance, etc. What happened to the Human Rights Act where everyone is treated equally or is there a distinction in words such as
an aeroplane driver is called a pilot, a boat driver a captain, a car driver is a car driver but a motorcyclist is a rider. Wow!!
Cheers Nigel

[jamie28]

i ride a bike and drive a t5 i must say as a biker i get a lot more hassle than a car driver.it isent all one sided, for example tinited visors are all but illegal but you can but similar devices for car drivers to stop the glare from the sun.

[mike s]

Motorcycles take up less space than other vehicles & therefore help relieve congestion. The same applies to parking spaces.
As for the lack of front number plates, I can only wish that my 480 didn't have one a fortnight back!..............
Mike S (480 owner & motorcyclist)

[Mav_UK]

As a biker and a driver I have to agree with whats been said above - on the bike I get soooo much more hassle than when driving (people often seem to want to kill bikers, claiming they didn't see my headlight / white / red leathers with reflective strips, or the rear lights etc which are always on). Also as said bikes releive congestion and also use less fuel (normally).

Big one you'll like though - here in holland there's no MOT for bikes......... Scary, and yes I do keep mine in tip top condition with regular services (most people over here do...)

Chat later

Stu

PS Digital cameras are not the only ones bikes are imune to - the early types with round flashes / lenses also take a pic of the front......

[sheerwater]

Have to disagree about motorcycles taking up less room on the road. As with cyclists they take up a length of road the same as everyone else and its only when doubled up at traffic lights or when parking they take up less room. Its not that I have anything against bikers as in fact I was going to get a scooter for my daughter. This is where we find the inequalities against bikers/moped drivers. Insurance is frightening. Why ? because a third of all scooters are stolen and never recovered. Its almost impossible to get anything but third party only for younger people. Bearing in mind what has been said above it seems that it is bigger vehicle drivers who hit the motorcyclist so why are the younger drivers penalised especially as they have to have compulsory basic training before venturing out on L plates. Congestion on our roads could be the topic of a whole new debate. Kids are desperate for independence but in the UK they have to wait until they are 16 for a moped. I understand that in France it is 14 so kids are tuned onto 2 wheels earlier and once they find the advantage of 2 over 4 wheels often stick to that form of transport. Here in the UK we encourage the theft of scooters and mopeds (no we are not sending somebody out to you, have a crime number instead) This brings me back to my first point. If car drivers are scrutinised by the new cameras which can check your speed, photograph you, check the details with swansea and then stealth tax you , then there is more chance of getting stolen , untaxed ,uninsured etc cars. This does not happen to motorbikes/scooters etc. Cheers Nigel

[Mav_UK]

Bikes have anumber of advantages that help congestion. Firstly when there is congestion bikes are only involved when drivers go out of their way to make sure bikers can't get through (and add to the congestion), secondly at traffic lights and the such again bikers do not increase the sixe of the queue unless drivers make it impossible to get through. Also along motorways if bikers ride correctly (and I must admit most of the Ducth ones seem to) then you have two lanes for every lane. If I ride on the left of the lane the guy behind rides on the right, the guy behind him rides on the left again.

As for them being above the law, in fairness they should be treated the same as cars, but on the other hand, if it were cars that got away with it would you complain (Like I said before I have both sides to deal with so I consider myself neutral..... :P }>

Chat later

Stu

[tllewellin]

A number of issues here I think, the first is that front facing cameras cannot "catch" bikers.

Now as a biker for over 17 years (starting in Guernsey, where you can ride a poweful motorbike on the road at age 15) I have to say that there are a fair number of "nutters" on bikes that endanger other road users by driving much to fast and without due consideration for other users (including other bikers). On the other hand there are many of us bikers ( mine have are (Cb400/4 and GPZ 750 Turbo) that drive well, and respect life and other road users.

In the bike community Volvo owners are frowned up as driving around in bullet proof boxes with out a care for bikers or any other road users, or if a woman in a Volvo estate, they are seen as permenantly distracted by bickering childern. As a Volvo owner and driver (480 and 960) I disagree with these stereotypes as well.

At the end of the day if anyone drives badly and endangers other users I hope they get nicked, having said that, if there is a stretch of open clear road with no other users or potential hazzards, who wont open up their car/bike and let loose a bit.

Tim:9

[jamie28]

i must admit there is a fine line between being quick and reckless on a bike .however its not untill you ride a bike that you really appreciate how poor the standard of driving and road conditions are becomming. most people cant spell rear view mirror let alone use them. the stereotypical captain volvo in his bullet proof 240 estate wiping out bikers at every t junction is in my opinion unfair. where i live ( outer london) the most arrogant people are bemmer drivers with vans a close second.and lets not forget cabbies have their own version of the highway code.bikes do help conjestion(ive yet to master filtering in trafffic in my t5)and require little space to park. with referance to free parking if you ever pay for a ticket and put it on your bike it gets nicked or blown away.

[Mike Clift]

I rode a motorbike once - didn't like it and would never try it again !!!

I suspect there are bikers who drove a car once and didn't like it as well!!

Having said that, there's room on the road for everybody whether they drive a car or ride a bike.

Some car drivers could learn a lot from bikers and try putting some lights on when conditions dictate and some bikers could learn from car drivers that a gap between vehicles is left for a reason and its not to allow bikes to fill it up!

Probably more examples but at the end of the day if we all get on with one another the road will be a safer place for all.

Mike

[kwerrett]

Yeah, good old bikers!!
Me also a volvo driver and biker too! Started out as a biker when a volvo apprentice and that was the only means of transport I could afford. Went away from bikes for years but got back into it 3 years ago, now ride a Triumph 900 on Sundays and sunnydays only.
I will say that being a biker makes you much more aware of whats going on around you on the road, car drivers take alot for granted. A biker who is also a car driver is, I think, probably a better driver for that experience.
Like others have said, theres room for all.
I live in a seaside resort and there is no way I want to drive a car into town in the summer, traffic jams and nowhere to park. A sensible driver should also have a scooter I reckon.
Good luck and safe driving.

Karl

[brainsaw]

Yeah... bike SHOULD be above the law... unfortunatley they are not :(

I can see why volvos hot a lot of bikes tho... The visibility is particularly poor in the S70 ... Being a biker I look out for them and know they could be in one of the many blind spots, but the woman with kids ain't gonna remember them all!

I was told (jokingly) on my CBT the bikers worst enemy after the tarmac overbanding is volvo drivers and drivers wearing hats.... and soo far I've found this to be true (even when I'm driving!)

ANPR systems aren't too good with 2 level plates either... don't make bikes above the law... just not caught by tax boxes.

But you can guarantee that if a bike is speeding next to a car at the same speed, the bike is the one thats gonna get pulled!

[GorgeousGeorge]

this seems to be getting off topic, but as regards the speeding issue, i'm sure i'd rather smack into something at 90 in my volvo than on a bike !!!

repeating the above, there are planks on the road, not all car drivers, not all bikers.

and i get branded a "bike killer" just because i drive a volvo, now that is unfair

later

scott

[Mav_UK]

So if driving a Volvo makes me a biker killer does mean I'm suicidal? Or merely suffering from multiple personalities? :)

About the gaps and bikes filling them, I just wish that drivers would stop being petty and let bikes have the space to avoid jams. When pulling up to a traffic jam I always position myself so that there is *plenty* of space for a bike to go by. And when on a bike and someone does this to me I always thank the driver with a friendly wave (you can guess the wave I give to drivers who pull in my way....)

As far as the worst drivers go, I'd say most drivers of small cars and german car owners (beemers / mercs and worst of all VAG owners). Small cars always seem to be able to take up more room in a lane than 38 ton lorries (and I jest not here!)

Chat later

Stu

PS Nice to get a long discussion going again!

[George Holmer]

I have nothing against bikers and try to help them as much as I can when they try to edge their way through the endless traffic jams but bikers do take chances in away that scares me. However, as said before, it is not the type of vehicle that matters, it is the behaviour of the driver.

George

Resident near Leuven in Belgium

'87 745 GLE Turbo Diesel Intercooler
'88 745 Turbo Intercooler

[sheerwater]

Topic going on well here!!! Just to throw in another point. Why are motorcyclists allowed to modify their exhausts to produce maximum sound?
Worst are the 50cc wasps. I live near enough to a dual carriageway in a valley. Often at night you hear the battering sound of a big bike which must be over the speed limit for ages as it travels through the valley. I know kids put the big bore exhausts on cars but this is not nearly as common as the wasps on bikes!!!! Cheers Nigel

[brainsaw]

They aren't ... there is a maximum dB for bikes (87?) .... cars don't have this limit.

[Mav_UK]

I'll definately agree with taht one. Some bikers do take some stupid chances (cutting thorugh the traffic as high speed being one of them!).

I think that thing that amazes me more than anything though is the amount of people that ride without the correct kit. I ride with full Dainese sports leathers (2-peice that zips together) a Dianese back protector (as used bu Chille in superbikes) a kidney belt, alpine stars boots, Dianese gloves (with Kevlar / carbon fibre protection) and of course a decent helmet. Cost about 1500gbp, but is very good stuff. Amazes me that I see people going past me when I'm doing 90(MPH) wearing t-shirt and shorts. Do these people not realise what happens when you hit the deck at that speed with nothing between your skin and the tarmac? (I've seen test results for Dianese kit in a magazine and it was very good - one of the reporters fell off when testing a bike at 120, sent the leathers for inspection and they came back with a clean bill of health!)

Stu

[sheerwater]

I realise that there is probably a limit generally but didn't realise that there was no limit for cars. Disregarding the confort level inside!!! I thought that the change may come under construction and use regulations. What does surprise me on another track is that police will chase a stolen car with everything that they have available including helicopters but in our area are reluctant to use the same for a stolen bike worth probably twice as much. We were walking back from the pub in a park one night when we found some kids with a stolen Ducatti. They legged it and closer inspection revealled that it was wrecked up front. I telephoned the law with the registration number only to be told ''what makes you think that it is stolen''.
After trying to describe matters the control said that if they had available officers they might attend. Notice the word ''might'' Then minutes later after pushing/ carrying the bike back to my house we were suddenly surrounded by armed officers. At the time we reported it the police had been chasing it with cars and a helicopter as it had been involved in 4 armed raids. We had wiped all fingerprints off destroying evidence because the control was not even aware that it had been stolen despite the helicopter being up. Cest la vie!!! Cheers

[mike s]

Cars & m/cycles both have noise limits under the law. one of the problems is that they aren't enforced, leading to more stringent legislation, which isn't enforced...........!
Car noise levels are measured at an angle of 45 degrees ffrom the direction of travel at 3/4 throttle.
M/cycles are measured at 5 degrees & full throttle!(discrimination there methinks).
I've been into bikes for near on 30 years & have allways hated LOUD exhausts, especially the "bee in a coke can" effect of small two strokes-apparently their noise is at around 3khz, where hearing is most acute!
Cheers
Mike S

[Mav_UK]

Must admit it's not the volume, although very loud exhaust annoy me, it's more the sound. As you say the bee in a coke can just drives you mad (and with the Dutch love of scooters you get it all the time here!) But a Ducatti sounds simply marvelous.......... Same for cars, Cheery bombs annoy the hell out of me, but the sports twins for Triumphs sounds great (a very low burble, with a bit of a roar when you push it a bit).

Stu

Wonder why cars and bikes are measured differently?