For those who may think that I am not safety

[sheerwater]

A new thread for discussion!!!!
In an age of high mileage drivers why is the MOT test carried out on a yearly not a mileage basis? There are drivers who do high mileages of 50k + per year which can effectively mean that a car can travel 150+k miles before its first legal check. Common sense says that high mileage drivers should keep their vehicles maintained and of course it is advantageous financially to do so. It does however mean that those who are not as meticulous can travel great mileages between tests but are only subjected to the same test as the Sunday driver. The MOT is only valid on the day it was tested but how many cars get by on the MOT with just legal tyres and just legal brake pads to be driven until the pads grind the metal. To illustrate the point I have seen cars with 6 months test left where the brake pad had worn out so much that it fell out!!!! If a car has a service interval of say 10k miles would it be fair to say that a car should be legally checked for basic safety every 10k or even 20k miles. (assuming that all drivers do not get their car serviced in a garage) It is somewhat worrying that some manufacturers are heading for the 20k service interval which could mean that drivers assume that it is ''safe'' to ignore the safety of a vehicle for another 20k miles. Cheers Nige

[4 forty]

nigel,
this is a very sensible and valid question,h.g.v. and buses fall into the same 12 monthly test, and some can cover over 80,000 miles per year, but, they unlike us,have to hold service records that are checked by the dept of transport, failure to do so,and the operators licence is revoked.
on another side of the argument look at aircraft for example, they are checked over and serviced not by a time scale, but hours in the air.

paul
4 forty

[Networkguy]

I would have thought that in the main, most of these high mileage drivers are doing so on business.

So the chances are the car is probably newer and better maintained than a car that is only brought out on a weekend.

After all a car owner that can hardly afford to run it is hardly going to be driving 40k miles a year (or are they?).

Besides, a car that is used daily is probably going to be in better condition than one that is laid up for weeks at a time (maybe).

[George Holmer]

I agree that most cars that fal into the category that Nigel mentions is indeed company cars and therefore serviced as per schedule. As someone who refuse to buy a new car partly because I would never want a main dealer to service my car, in fact I would not let them touch my car. It is interesting, in Sweden most main Volvo dealers actually like people interested in vintage Volvos. I went to one in the summer visiting and when I returned from the shop to the car park, there were mechanics standing around my car talking about it, and then I had to open the bonnet and so on. They also give discounts on parts for Amazons and PVs and the like. In Worcester, I remember, when I still had the Mondeo, I went in to ask about 700 and 900 estates for sale, they looked at me as if I was a pile of dirt and said, we do not deal with rear wheel drive cars anymore, those are 70's junk. I digress...

Ok, Nigel, you may be right, but how are you going to impose any system based on milage? Those who drive many miles per year are going to complain and consider it discrimination. I know I would, I do 30k miles plus per year.

George

Resident near Leuven in Belgium

'87 745 GLE Turbo Diesel Intercooler
'88 745 Turbo Intercooler

[Mav_UK]

Hey all,

From personal experience I would have to agree with Nige. Whilst in the UK people seemed to service there cars frequently (company cars that is) almost all the people I know over here waited 50K+ (km's) between services and screwed there cars up totally. Driving on nearly bold tyres is practically normal and the lease companies won't allow you toget *all* problems fixed with the car - they have to agree with the repair first. So extra checks for those racking up the high millage is something I think should be imposed (uk or otherwise) and yes I was a high millage driver and it was all private - when I passed I did 35K per year, yes I did service the car frequently but is that the norm or exception for private use?

Stu

[sheerwater]

Going back to network guys comments. Agreed that high mileage drivers have their cars serviced regularly and would also ''feel'' faults developing. On the other hand my wife treats a car like a washing machine. Start it stop it and never check it. When it goes wrong scream!!! From one service to another I doubt she checks fluid levels etc. (I do when I remember) To be honest though how many of as ACTUALLY do the daily checks except at holiday time. Enforcement could be easy with non adjustable electronic speedos. For example how many people are aware that you can double check some VWs because thhere is an odometer in the gearbox.
My point is that with reliability people ignore basic checks never mind the serious ones and what are manufacturers going to do when 20K services come into the norm. Brake pads worn 60% @ 20K wont last until the next 20K service so change them now??? I for example know someone who bought a diesel from new and never serviced it until it did 28K miles and wondered why the turbo blew up!!!! Dont for goodnesss sake let the Government get hold of this thread or they will be testing us on the Friday of every second week!!! Cheers Nige

[Olaf The Blue]

Let's face it, as someone has already commented, the MOT test only tells us that a vehicle is considered to be roadworthy, having been examined using the statutory parameters, by an individual whose judgement could well be subjective, at a specific time, on a specific day. From the moment you drive your vehicle away from the testing station, the only value which the Test Certificate has is to enable you to tax your car the next time round.
The only certain way of making sure, in as far as you are able, that your car is in as good nick as it is possible for it to be, is to have it serviced regularly, and by that I don't mean sticking to the manufacturer's service schedule. Frankly, I look askance at some of the service intervals now being recommended. I know this is personal choice, but I would be unhappy if any car of mine went more than six months without being given the once over by my trusted and efficient non-franchised garage. O.K., so this costs money, but what value do you put on peace of mind, let alone the lives of yourself, your family and possibly others?
I don't mean to sound self righteous but this is a real thing with me. If my car isn't as near 100% right as I can get it, (with help, since I'm no mechanic), I don't want to know.
We are running, as a second car, the 1985 Volvo 240DL Est that I bought 14 years ago. It has always been maintained on the basis of six monthly or 6k services and it starts, as it has always done, first turn of the key, even when it has been standing for several weeks and it has never, in our ownership, been garaged. With 182k on the clock, running on unleaded, (Broquet catalyser), I reckon it still has a good few miles under its bonnet but the key, in my view, is regular and efficient maintenance.
As an aside, and then I'll get me coat, I reckon engine longevity is largely down to changing oil meticulously every 5/6k, with an engine flush at each 10/12k service and using decent quality petrol, ie none of your cheap cut price, lacking in additives stuff.
O.K. Got all that off me chest. Speak soon.


Regards
Olaf The Blue

[GorgeousGeorge]

nige

fair point, but a brand spanking new S80 driven by a moron is more dangerous than a careful driver in an Amazon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sheerwater]

Agreed but there is another couple of factors here. The guy in the amazon knows that if he bends it he has probably wasted hours of his time restoring it and drives accordingly. On the other hand the guy in the S80 knows that if it is bent he can get another one (but not another life before somebody else mentions it!!!) Driving habits also depend on other factors such as who owns the car. I like others have lost count of the number of prats in company cars/vans who are being pushed by incentive schemes and bonuses to get the job done faster. I have also been burnt up by the prat in the car they have just bought for £50 so it doesnt matter if his heap gets damaged. See my next post on company liability. Cheers Nige

[Mav_UK]

We all know that company cars are the quickest in first gear, reverse and have the abililty to fly over kerbs at speed....

Stu

[Olaf The Blue]

To get back to the original thread, in considering whether or not cars should be tested at given mileages, rather than merely on an annual basis after three years, it has to be borne in mind that most high mileage company cars clock up 90% of their miles, travelling at high speed up and down the motorway network. Modern motors thrive on this kind of usage, indeed mechaically speaking these cars have an easy life. Those components of the vehicle which are subject to MOT inspection will, after 3 yrs have been subjected to considerably less wear and tear in a car used in this way, over and above one that clocks up an average 10/12k a year being used mainly "for social, domestic and pleasure purposes only", in give and take conditions.
Indeed,provided that an authenticated service record was available, I would prefer to buy a 2/3year old company or lease car with 60k + on it that had been used mainly on M-ways, rather than a similar low mileage private vehicle that had been driven every day in commuter traffic or worse used on the school run!
So, on balance, and always provided that said motors are serviced regularly and correctly, I see no advantage in basing test intervals on mileage. Lets face it, there are enough bits of paper in the system already!

Regards
Olaf The Blue

[Mav_UK]

There are too many bits of paper in the British system, I agree, and there is no communication between departments, but that is for a different thread. I also agree with buying the high millage lease car, but ONLY if it has the paper work.....

With the high millage thing, I think the phrase "Assumption is the mother of all....." springs to mind. You assume that people are going to do service and repair their cars. And yes for the most part it may be true. But for the few that don't, who knows what is happening. We have a similar situation here in Holland with motorbikes. There is no MOT equivalent, with the assumption that a biker is going to look after his bike due to safety reasons. Some of the bikes I have seen and had to misfortune to ride whilst mine was serviced are deathtraps.

And an MOT cert given each x miles isn't going to cause too much extra paper, and if you keep them all then when you sell the car you have yet more proof that it was looked after well, and the department of Transport has proof of millage making clocking more difficult....

Stu

[Olaf The Blue]

I understand the point you are making, Stu but MOT tests based on mileage could be a double edged sword. It depends at what mileage you are going to demand that cars are tested because there are plenty of cars out there, often owned by the elderly, which cover ridiculously low annual mileages. My mum-in-law, for instance, has done less than 3k in the Pug 106 she bought new in March! Cars such as this could go for years without being tested unless you set the mileage interval between tests so low that some cars would be in and out of the testing station every couple of weeks.
Anyway, I wonder if anyone has access to stats showing how many accidents are caused each year as a direct result of mechanical failure of a component covered by the MOT - apart from tyres, that is- and how many of the vehicles involved fall into the high mileage, never been tested category which were the ones we were talking about at the beginning of this thread. Just a thought.

Regards
Olaf The Blue

[sheerwater]

There are Govt statistics for the REAL causes of accdents on www.abd.org.uk One interesting statistic is that vehicle failure does case accidents but so does a driver being unfamiliar with the vehicle. i.e. does not know the dials,switches etc. If this is a cause of accidents then why doesnt the Govt accpt this and insist that certain controls are placed in roughly the same position. Back to the thread. Yes there is to much paper floating around. Take for example the new plasic driving licence. Hi tech....nope as despte the technology of the magnetic strip you still have to have a paper one. The simple answer (and remember Im not suggesting this is enforced) is for the MOT to be based on mileage or time. his happens wth car servicing!!
Cheers Nige