Speeding again!!!!

[sheerwater]

Interesting fact is that the number of people who are now living on social security in the UK as a result of losing their jobs because of speed cameras is approaching 20,000. This means that they are no longer paying tax, national insurance or pension contributions. It also means that they are a burden on society. If each fails to pay £5k into the system in tax and gets the equivalent of £15k in benefit then the cost to the country is £400,000,000 per year. The number of speeding fines is set to increase to 3,000,000 this year at a cost of £60 each. This raises £180,000,000. How long before the government realises that its making a loss on the deal and ups the ante. PS most of Northamptonshire is now being turned into 40 mph maximum even in completely rural areas so beware.
Cheers Nige

[Clifford Pope]

Reasonable or not, the fact remains that speeding fines are entirely optional.
The areas where speed restrictions apply are clearly signposted, all cars are fitted with devices for controlling the speed, and we are all equipped with intelligent brains who can work out how to use the controls to vary the speed of our cars at any given moment.
So whenever I set out on a journey it is entirely within my control, and mine alone, how fast I go and therefore whether I am letting myself become liable for speeding fines.
So people who lose their jobs through clocking up points for speeding have done so voluntarily.
So what on earth is free will all about if it doesn't include knowing what your right foot is doing?

[GorgeousGeorge]

fair point, but when you allow an hour for a journey that normally takes 30 mins and one day you get stuck in traffic for 30 mins so try to make up for lost time when the jam clears, you get the jist !!!

and a speeding motorist on an empty motorway or an 18 wheeler sitting an inch off your bumper doing 50 in the rain, who is in the wrong there, and they dont have "inch off your bumper" cameras do they ??

not saying speeding is right, just another angle

cheers guys

scott

[morsing]

Speed kills?? No it doesn't!!

When does the police/government realise that accidents are caused by inconsiderate/stupid (to put it mildly) drivers and not by speeding.

I am a very cautious (sp??) driver. The incident I had last month (83mph on A43 with no traffic) would never have happened if I had thought there was any danger to anyone. I am fairly confident that I can do that again and survive.
I would not, however, feel safe in the passenger seat doing 50mph with lots and lots of drivers on the road but the police would never do anything to stop those even though they should never have been given a licence!!

So what do we do about it??

Cheers

[GorgeousGeorge]

what are the deaths per head on the UK motorways compared to the autobahns ?????

and what do we do, right henrik, hack into their unix server and
rm the lot ( sorry mate, saw you over on tek-tips):P

later

scott

[morsing]

Aahhh... So you're 'CrustyOldBloke' ;-)

Cheers

[exley]

Sorry Sheerwater, but your impressive statistics take no account of the costs to the country of road accidents, caused or exacerbated by excessive or inappropraite speed. Just goes to show that you can prove anything with statistics!

As one who used to have professional responsibilities for road safety matters, including the fixing of speed limits (in consultation with the Police and others) I abhor 'blanket' speed limits such as the motorway 70mph limit, which was imposed for political reasons. However, you only have to look at the poor lane discipline of UK drivers, fast and slow, to see why they are perhaps necessary, and why the pressure groups have succeeded in keeping them. On the other hand, I have no problem with 20mph limits in housing estates and near schools, and 30mph in general in urban areas, they are totally appropriate.

It is inevitable that some highway authorities and Police forces will interpret the rules and guidelines for setting and enforcing speed limits to suit their own ends, and will also bow to pressure from 'interest' groups for political reasons.

The final point however is well expressed by Clifford Pope, to whom I can only say 'hear hear'.

Quentin Lucas, C.Eng. MICE, FIHT
aka exley

[Peter Milnes]

I am afraid that I have to subscribe to the school of thought which says that speed alone does not kill or cause incidents. If "accidents" were correctly called "avoidable incidents" a clearer picture would be obtained of the situation. This phrase correctly puts the blame for any incident on the person who is driving without due care and attention, not on how fast the cars were moving prior to the incident. Thus a speeding driver may certainly contribute to the causes of such an incident. But one also has to consider the driver who just is not paying attention to what he should be doing whilst in motion. The answer is in far better driver education in the first place. The majority of people in the UK have totally lost the idea of respect for other people and their property that used to be a Great Britain watchword, and this lack of respect can be shown any day on any road in the British Isles (and I do know that they no longer exist except in the memories of the ancient ones).

The ONLY way to avoid fines and points on licences is to keep to the posted speed limits (including temporary ones around roadworks). In other words think all the time you are at the wheel of a lethal weapon).

All the best, Peter

[Mav_UK]

Gotta dissagree there, I love coming back to the UK as driving there is a pleasure compared to driving in Holland. You may not realise it but people in the UK do drive MUCH better than abroad (living in Holland for 4 years now!). In the UK you get lane discipline, you get forward thinking, and most drivers will actually leave a gap (even if it's not big enough, you don't have the tailgating problem that exists over here - beleive me!)

As for blanket 20 and 30 limits, I think they are a bad idea. If you have some small road with no pavement / road boundries (as you get a lot in Holland) then fine, for those selected area's 20mph is a good idea, and yes load the area up with speed cameras, after all this is where speeding is stupid. For main roads through estates, 30mph all well and good, and again load the area up with speed cameras. But why should a road with a wide grass verge (like 3 times the width of the road) with plenty of traffic light controlled crossings be limited to 30? And why are all the speed cameras on the safest roads (dual carageways, motorways etc etc).

Appropriate use of the car is the answer, and appropriate setting of limits!

Most Dutch people I know who have driven a lot in the UK and around Europe agree that the standard of driving there is far higher than elsewhere on the continent.....

Stu

[morsing]

Last year danes were voted the most inconsideret drivers.
It pretty much matches their personality which is why I left!!

P.S. Exley: Relax on the funny words! I haven't got my dictionary with me.

P.P.S. C'mon Gorgeous, tell me who you are :-)

Cheers

[George Holmer]

Very true indeed. To drive in the UK is bliss, you do not know how good you have it!


George

Anglo-Swede resident near Leuven in Belgium

'87 745 GLE Turbo Diesel Intercooler (D24TIC/M46, 200k)
'88 745 Turbo Intercooler (B230FT/M46, 270k)
'88 745 GL (B200E/M47, 200k)
'89 440 GL (B18K, 90k)

[GorgeousGeorge]

on the whole the driving conditions are fine but you only need one bad apple to spoil the bunch !!!!

henrik, i'm gorgeousgeorge over there as well but more of a lurker than a poster.

later

scott

[sheerwater]

A good variety of opinion here then. I gather most of you do not live in my area where the speed limits change with the wind and I can show you a roundabout with 50, 30,60 and 40 mph limits on it where the limit changes again within a few yards from 30,40 to 50. You will notice however that in general the policy is to remove drivers off the road by the points system. A system which increases insurance with the points and nets the government additional insurance tax. Bear in mind that EVERY legal driver on the road has passed a driving test set by the Government (and even this was introduced as a tax). If it passes drivers it must accept some responsibility if they do not drive well. It is about money, not driving ability. Why would somebody driving at 47mph in a 30 zone not be as dangerous as a person driving at 31 mph if this was not the case.(yes my wife was caught doing 47 in a 30 area a week after they changed the speed limit and was ''offered the standard £60 + 3 points''). Another friend caught doing 31 YES 31 was offered retraining on a course at a cost of £90 plus a days lost wages instead of the £60+3points. Who was the most dangerous ? Who has a clean licence and who benefitted most ? British roads are designed by experts. I can show you numerous mistakes in road design i.e.
2 lanes going into one straight after traffic lights where there are accidents regularly. Why allow 2 lanes to start and compete for the same space. At one junction this is especially poignant as the exit road has just been reduced from 50 to 30. The situation arises where 2 lanes feed in doing 30 and they used to be able to accelarate to 50 and ZIP feed into one line. Now the exit is 30 2 lanes of traffic compete for one lane which is now doing about 25 as this is a mobile speed camera area. Result is 2 lanes bumper to bumper squeezing into one and this halves road area per car. Result bump after bump. If criminals are offered rehabilitation free of charge why not motorists ? Why if the government is so worried about driver attitudes does it not offer FREE courses to promote better driving for anyone interested? You may have read that it is considering allowing people who have taken an advanced test to drive faster on motorways. Now thats going to be an interesting situation. As for being bad drivers...yes we all are. Not one of us is perfect and not one of us can hold our hands up and say we have never made a mistake. The difference today is the government has realised that our little mistakes can be turned into cash. PS if you are caught in Northampton parking with a wheel touching a white line in a paid parking bay this can cost £60. Another example of the motorist cash cow.
Cheers Nige

[George Holmer]

Motorists are cash cows all over the place, nothing new there. Of course there are mistakes in road designs in England, but nothing compared to Belgium where all civil servants designing roads are smoking pot. My personal favourite is where the E40 meets the Brussels ring and there is also a junction from the A road. Thus, you have five flows of traffic: at the one end one coming on to the motorway and one coming from the E40 and at the other end, one going into Brussels, one going onto the ring clockwise and one anticlockwise. Now, I would personally design this thus: split motorway and junction separately and then merge junction traffic with motorway traffic, i.e. if you come off the A road and wish to go on to the ring clockwise, you will only merge with motorway traffic going onto the ring clockwise. Not the Belgians, here they merge junction traffic with motorway traffic and then quarter of a mile later, split the traffic, thus creating a very dangerous cross flow and overtaking on both sides. It is mad, frightening and plain dangerous.

George

Anglo-Swede resident near Leuven in Belgium

'87 745 GLE Turbo Diesel Intercooler (D24TIC/M46, 200k)
'88 745 Turbo Intercooler (B230FT/M46, 270k)
'88 745 GL (B200E/M47, 200k)
'89 440 GL (B18K, 90k)

[sheerwater]

Been there George!!!
I hate to admit it but the French seem to be leading the field in motorways. Flack will hit me here but the system around Paris has always been Magic for me. It was designed years ago (at least 20 to my knowlege but please correct me) in the days of lighter traffic. Last week I crossed Paris twice in under half an hour with no stops. Yes I have seen it stationary but its an old system dealing with modern traffic flows and they even tell you if you are going to get stuck so you can turn off before you sit reading a newspaper!!!! Cheers Nige

[niloc]

For those of you who have received the latest magazine, I was particularly interested in the article about safety innovations by Volvo. Quite a comprehensive list, of which a lot of items have become compulsory on new cars.
This begs the question ..... Are Sweden's roads that dangerous? :+

I understand that it is very often below freezing, with a blanket of snow and also mountainous, but how do they drive over there?

[George Holmer]

How do they drive in Sweden, well, they have a gearbox and an engine, they select the right gear and then press the throttle... No seriously, first of all, winter tyres are compulsory in winter and most people use studded tyres. Most of Sweden is quite flat so that is not a problem, but ice is, it does kill people every year.


George

Anglo-Swede resident near Leuven in Belgium

'87 745 GLE Turbo Diesel Intercooler (D24TIC/M46, 200k)
'88 745 Turbo Intercooler (B230FT/M46, 270k)
'88 745 GL (B200E/M47, 200k)
'89 440 GL (B18K, 90k)

[sheerwater]

Hi George,
Nice to see your write up in the magazine.
For goodness sake dont tell our Government that ice kills people or they will either tax it or ban it!!!!! Cheers Nige

[martinwoolley]

Just installed a BEL Euro 550 detector. Seems very reliable and gives ample warning.

To my knowledge this is one of the best detectors on the market and specically designed for Europe rather than previous versions which were adaptations from the USA.

I do not use this device to drive any faster than normal and I certainly do not agree with anyone speeding in a built up area.

What it does do is protect you from lapses of concentration on motorways, country lanes, temporary speed restrictions etc.. where cameras are positioned just around bends, behind trees etc..and alerts the driver in advance to potentially higher-risk areas.

Incidently there are guidelines as to the postioning of cameras. www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk is a very good site to look at.

Most local police authority web sites provide information on where mobile cameras will be positioned on a weekly basis. This is worth checking out before journeys.