How does crime affect you ?

[sheerwater]

Hi,
Another topic for hot debate!!!! follows on from another thread that turned into a crime topic.
For me crime is a bit of a worry and is also becoming a big industry with regard to preventing it. My house is alarmed has security locks on all doors and windows. My cars have sophisticated alarm systems and immobilisers, lift out radios etc. One of our businesses (a shop type premises) has sophisticated alarms. sophisticated cctv systems and security doors.
Our other business relating to property involves similar measures for security. I would hate to add up the expense involved as well as time involved organising security etc. All this just to protect what is ours.(not withstanding that our prices are higher as a result)
As the UK has ONE SIXTH of the worlds security cameras the cost of these plus shop detectives and entry systems plus the cost of shoplifting must be bourne by the customer as additional expense.
Recently I returned from Switzerland and the local supermarket stored the 24 bottle packs of beer outside virtually on the pavement and nobody thought about trying to steal it.There was some shoplifting ( we were told) by an English man (no surprises here) who shoplifted from the first shop, shoplifted from the second shop and was himself lifted by police at the third shop!!!! In the UK I actually saw somebody run out of a shop through the alarm barrier with the alarm going (Wilkinsons) and nobody did anything. Staff just said that it happens all the time. I dont deny that crime happens in other countries but my personal costs regarding prevention and insurance are escallating daily. So whats going on in the UK to make me feel so uneasy ?
Cheers Nige

[George Holmer]

I never look my car nor my house. I do have a dog and he would bite but we do not have crime here on the Flemish country side, used to live in Reading. Bloody place, only ever had anything stolen there.

George

Anglo-Swede resident near Leuven in Belgium

'87 745 GLE Turbo Diesel Intercooler (D24TIC/ZF22, 200k)
'88 745 Turbo Intercooler (B230ET/M46, 270k)
'88 745 GL (B200E/M47, 200k)
'89 440 GL (B18K/M55, 90k)

[Mav_UK]

My Spit isn't locked, as there is nothing to steal from inside it, and I would rather just have someone get in and see this than slash the roof to do it. It does have a very good alarm immobaliser, but as it's a spitfire you can get around it. When parked for longer than a day though it doesn't have a rotor arm (how many car theives carry around Lucas spare parts?)

As for my house, it's alarmed, security locks etc. But the Dutch like huge windows in their houses so it's still not too secure.

As for shoplifters, when I worked for Tescos to get through college I was put on security once (stupid really nearly 6' and weighing 9 stone what did they want me to do?). They said just approach anyone walking out of the shop looking suspisious. Like hell, 4 pounds per hour doesn't cover me getting beaten up / stabbed by some shop lifter.

Stu

[Baffler]

Hi Folks,

In '99, I lived and worked in the Netherlands (Venlo) and Germany (Mains) for a short time and I couldn't get over the fact that retail security was so lax and tolerant. I don't think it even entered their minds to steal as I believe the punishment probably would have been severe. I would of stayed over there only for the language barrier.... I have to agree with Nige, why should we have to spend excessively on trying to protect what is after all, rightfully ours. I don't have a business to worry about so I don't shell out for expensive alarms, camera's, lock's etc...etc...but I can imagine Nige's frustration. I live in Limerick, the mid west capital of Ireland, and for many years we have been branded with the tag "Stab City" and it's all due to (in my opinion) bureaucracy! If some of the 'Fat Cats' of this country were to stop lining their pockets and put some of the monies back into society, we might be able to do away with what the Americans call 'The Projects' or 'Lower Class Society' because as far as I'm concerned, this is where the crime is being generated. Free money = Idle hands - Idle minds..........it's no wonder we need to lock our cars and homes. Although, putting up security camera's and alarms is only telling people that those premises has something of great value with in them, is it not...???

Fact: 5.0 billion in (road tax) revenue was taken in by the Dept' Of Transport in '99, but, 500 million was put back into the development of new and existing roads.

Question: What happened to the 4.5 billion that was left over?

[Peter Milnes]

You will never get George (Brown) to tell you what he does with all the extra money, just like the last Labour government.

All the best, Peter

[George Holmer]

Where as the Tory government told you what they did with every penny or what?

George (who votes Lib Dem and I would not expect them to tell me either!)

Anglo-Swede resident near Leuven in Belgium

'87 745 GLE Turbo Diesel Intercooler (D24TIC/ZF22, 200k)
'88 745 Turbo Intercooler (B230ET/M46, 270k)
'88 745 GL (B200E/M47, 200k)
'89 440 GL (B18K/M55, 90k)

[Mav_UK]

Ahhh, Politics. Almost as bad as discussions on Religion and DRL's :P

Stu (Would be Lib Dem if they would just help locals... - as it is Tory, sorry)

[sheerwater]

Hi,
I agree that money is taken away from one part of society and given to another but the distribution system is rather lop sided. In my opinion before any benefits are paid then some input is required. We have National Insurance. You dont have to pay this in certain circumstances but you should be registered. i.e. have a N.I. number and have a reason for not paying. ...between jobs or sick. What other Insurance policy pays out if you do not pay the premium????? I am a pure capitalist because I make money but I also believe that certain services should be serviced by the state i.e. health, roads etc. What I object to is people getting largish sums of money for doing nothing and NEVER contributing to the pool.
I believe a lot of our ills are due to 2 reasons. Jealousy and greed.
Both I and my wife spent years getting qualified. Years working our way up the ladder on low money while friends earnt much better cash doing simple jobs. Now we are reasonably comfortable people are jealous of our success. Tough. We earnt it and my wife still leaves home before 8 in the morning and only returns with more paperwork (govt generated) when all work is finished. Often 7 days a week. My brother on the other hand employs people as washers up for 16 hours a week who get benefits making their take home pay greater than the take home pay of a teacher. Easy money for some so if its easy money why bother to conform to the ''work club''. While the others are hard at work they can spend the easy money i.e. our taxes on important things like mobile phones, sky tv and expensive trainers. And when the money runs out they think that they have a right to help themselves to more. (I dont generalise here as many are honest and genuine) To put this into some context I know personally of single parents on housing benefits etc. who contribute nothing to society who get far more in the way of benefits than most of our staff are paid net. Ah well . Thank goodness the new thinking is that normal law abiding people should be left alone for minor infringments and the more serious offenders should be targeted.
Remember if you dont have to go to work you dont need a car so speed cameras cant catch you!!! PS Ive now got to replace a door on a flat that has been kicked in and the place ransacked. Cheers Nige

[Ben H]

Crime is, in my opinion, to do with underlying trends. Though a scumbag may shoplift to satisfy some desire for good X, we need to ask what causal mechanisms are behind that decision. I work at the Citizens Advice Bureau, and although I see loads of people who might be characterised as benefit frauds/dossers, I also see people enduring genuine, life-long poverty. Poverty of education, poverty of living environment and poverty of hope. I think that it is people who have little to care for and no-one to care for them that are most likely to commit crime.

[Mav_UK]

I've heard this before, but how do you account for all the descrepencies. I come from a bad neighbourhood. More people went inside than finished Uni. yet myself and my friends are all (relatively) law abiding people, whilst a majority were not. The only thing I can link it to was the discipline of the parents. Those who got either no discipline or too rough discipline (smacking fine, but not beating up) are the ones that seemed to go down the worst routes.

The problem, I think, is more to do with the 'blame others' attitude. Parents blame schools for a lack of discipline, but it all starts at home. Parents who don't give discipline tend to create parents who give even less and the problem grows. When my dad was young he wouldn't have dared telling his dad if he'd been clipped around the ear by a copper - he'd have been in trouble for getting in trouble. Nowdays, you'd be suing the copper for it. Until people wake up and realise that they have responsibility for their lives the problem will grow.

I think simply saying we come from a bad background is a poor excuse. Work hard and do what you can to alter the situation. Yes it's difficult, but I'm working at it - and until the trouble with the IT industry recently was doing damn good. Now not quite so good, but still okay.

Stu

[sheerwater]

Hi,
I agree Stu,
I taught for 13 years in a new school in a London overspill estate. Rough it was but there was respect for each other. (I lived on the same estate for a long time) Everyone was in the same boat. Skint and poor. A banger if you were lucky, the carpet on HP, and a rental telly. As a qualified teacher half my rent was paid by social as I assume nearly everyone elses was. I ended up doing a second job for 10 years to make ends meet and are there others who remember the day mortgages hit 17.5%? Yes kids went two ways...I have checked on friendsreunited but in no pattern.I am still amased by the high power jobs some now hold. As for the ''nobody loves me'' and I have no hope but to fall into evil ways this does not wash. In the UK once you hit 50 you re washed up as far as jobs are concerned. Nobody wants me as a teacher..I cost to much. Nearly all my friends in the 45-50 bracket are redundant and not wanted. Do we go around stealing , burning cars etc. NO NO NO. We get off our fat Ar*** and do something and I know of guys doing menial repair jobs who now earn more than they did with their managing directors job. Its all to do with punishment. There is no punishment. Even a verbal warning to youngsters is met with verbal abuse and a brick though the window. I have been in that situation. A group of neighbours reprimanded some teenagers verballly (after 4 useless calls to the police) Oh the police turned up. Three adults were cautioned for threatening children. Where do I send my subscription to the save Tony Martin Fund. PS yes I believe that as Ben says there are deserving causes. Yes they may go to the CAB but they are genuine. They dont burn my car because they need help. Burning my car will not solve their problems. Cheers Nige

[migrator]

Hi Stu,

I too fall into the category of those kids who went home and said they had been clipped on the ear by the local bobby - and got another from the old man for my trouble. My father would also go and thank the local bobby for his interest next time he saw him on the beat.

Difficult - yes and by the way, same industry and (probably) the same problems.