Michael888
Sep 2nd, 2011, 17:44
On August Bank Holiday Monday 2011 I'd booked a rail ticket at a cost of £63.00 to take me on a six hour journey to Perth to collect my new (to me) 2002 V70 D5 that I’d won on eBay, it had been a bargain, or so I thought! I could see from the photographs that it needed tidying up cosmetically internally & externally but it had FSH and had only had two owners from new, cosmetics didn’t really bother me as I was buying the car specifically because I have two Dobermann's, they wouldn’t be bothered as long as it would get them to the beach :natur008:
Once I arrived at the dealers I was greeted by the guy who I'd asked, prior to bidding by the way, whether there was any other message being displayed other than 'SERVICE URGENT' that I could see on the photographs, he'd replied 'no, it's probably just over its standard service interval, nope, there's just a slight blow from the exhaust but other than that there's nothing else'. Being the trusting kind I took him at his word, never again! Anyway I could see the car in the compound and all looked fine, again due to my trusting, some would say stupid/naive nature, after a quick clarification from the same guy I'd spoken to earlier that the SRS airbag light definitely was not on, along with a check of the service book which DIDN’T have details of any cam belt change, another cost concern, I made my payment by Visa Debit, how I wish that I’d used my Visa credit!
The first sign of things not being quite as they should be was when I was handed a single tatty looking key with no remote fob, when I questioned if there was another key or any remote fobs a quick shake of the head was the only reply. Hmmmmm, economical with the truth sprang to mind, they’d not mentioned this in the listing description, I appreciate that it's fairly common to receive a used car with only one key as spares go astray, but not to have a remote surely meant that the alarm system would be useless!
After paying, and STILL - admittedly foolishly - not having inspected the car, I had another quick chat with the same guy who had informed me that the SRS AIRBAG message was not displayed, he reassured me there was just a little blow from the manifold area of the exhaust but other than that, with a little bit of time and money, it would make a great estate car again. At this point he also mentioned that someone else had taken the car for a test drive and that they had mentioned that the suspension maybe had a couple of faults, hmmmmm strange how this had not been mentioned before. Anyway I'd paid and, not having a return rail ticket and being over 300 miles from home, I had little option other than to bite the bullet and take the car; surely it couldn't get any worse......................
For the first time I went to check the car, before starting it I checked the fluid levels, the oil appeared a little high and the water appeared a little low, however neither were alarming enough to doubt that the car would be ok on its 300+ journey home, in fact the engine bay area looked VERY clean, thinking about it now it was obviously TOO clean when you consider that the rest of the car, cosmetically inside & out, was a total mess, and that's being VERY kind, maybe this was the reason they said it’d been owned by a vet!
So I started her up with my gaze fixed on the LCD DIM display, sure enough there was the fatal message, SRS AIRBAG and below it SERVICE URGENT, obviously I wasn't happy but I just thought 'ok, lying bugger, DIM out, cartronix, £189.00, job done, not the end of the world, yeah I'm a patient sod aren't I!!!
Chocks away, the start of my journey began, as I exited the 'garage' forecourt there was a bit of a dip, as the car drove across the dip and up the other side there was all sorts of creaking, groaning and knocking from the nearside front suspension. STILL I thought ok, drop links, bushes or lower/upper arm, still not the end of the world. Yep, patience of a saint, that's me!
Other than the occasional creaking/knocking from the suspension and the LCD display doing an unnerving dance in my peripheral vision the car didn't seem to be driving too badly, that was until I got to my first incline, not a steep incline but an incline all the same. I was doing about 50MPH at this point and, as you do, in an effort to maintain your speed whilst going up an incline I depressed the accelerator slightly, Hmmmm I thought, was that a puff of smoke I saw in my rear view mirror or was it getting decidedly foggy to my rear?
I didn't have to wait long for my answer as, with each passing incline, and there are lots of those in Scotland, the black smoke got worse, to the extent that I had to decelerate and slowly lose speed whilst climbing, any attempt at maintaining my speed by acceleration was met by plumes of black smoke, and I really mean thick plumes! I was also suffer severe vibration from the steering wheel on braking, a sure sign that the front discs are shot!
Although obviously raging by this point, yes my patience had finally snapped :realmad: , I thought it'll all be okay once I get on some clear, level-ish motorway..........NOT SO!!!! Once on the motorway I attempted to increase my speed up to 70MPH but this car did not want to play, I reached 70MPH but within minutes the engine management light flickered on and the engine appeared to stall with a simultaneous violent shake of the car, instinctively I took my foot off the gas and thankfully the engine re-started. Okay I thought, the temperature level is where it should be, the balance of my journey home, about 250 miles, would have to be done at around 60MPH, after which point I was asking for, and getting, a full refund, NOT GOOD!
Between that point and getting home, yes I did actually manage to nurse it home, I had one more really nasty incident, I was travelling down the A1M at about 60MPH, certainly no more than that, and, slowly but surely, I was closing in on a heavy goods vehicle, with buttocks clenched I indicated right and pulled into the fast lane, having got past the HGV I indicated left and pulled back in, at that precise point the engine management light flashed on/off again, the engine stalled again with another violent shudder and I obviously started to lose speed. In my rear view mirror I could see the HGV heading towards me, closing the gap at an alarming rate with his full beam held on, not what I needed at this stage :bluegrab: Obviously I lifted off the accelerator and pulled over onto the hard shoulder at which point the engine sprang back into life, far too close a call for comfort! I don’t think of myself as the perfect driver, however I've been driving for over 30 years and therefore have a wealth of experience, I really dread to think what the outcome would have been had it been a much younger or much older person that had bought this car.
During the final leg of my journey, when I wasn't nursing the car up an incline, I was filled with the thought of what 'er indoors' was going to say about all this :lala: , how I'd been stitched up etc., I’m sure all you blokes out there can empathise. As it turned out she was great and just said 'at least you got home in one piece'
Oh I almost forgot, when I got onto my street, I daren't do this before in case the car died altogether, I dropped my window and accelerated to see if I could hear any strange noises, basically what I heard sounded like a load of broken bits of metal being shaken violently in a metallic jar, rightly or wrongly I guessed that this was the turbo attempting to spool but failing as it was broken (change the word broken to a more suitable word of your choice, it will probably reflect my thoughts at the time more accurately!)
The following day I went out to see if the car would start, before doing so I lifted the bonnet to check the fluid levels, it was at this point that I noticed that the whole left hand side of the engine was totally covered in a sooty deposit, little wonder then that they'd obviously cleaned the engine bay prior to me collecting it. Devious? You be the judge! So was it the EGR valve? A split hose? A broken turbo? Clogged intercooler? To be quite honest at this point I was totally past caring, I just wanted a full refund, eBay purchase or not! I even discovered that there were NO rear registration plate lights, both bulbs were out, and only one dipped beam headlight was working! Seriously, how bad/slack/unprofessional/couldn’t care less, does a garage need to be to send a customer on their way with DEFECTIVE ROAD LIGHTS??? I also found that the tailgate wouldn’t open, yes I’d bought car which was to be used primarily for transporting my dogs yet they wouldn’t be able to enter through the tailgate!!!
After speaking to Trading Standards I was informed that under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) I was well within my rights to ask for, and expect, a full refund as the car was obviously 'not fit for purpose' and under the The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 the seller was also guilty of 'misleading practices (includes both acts and omissions).' and that 'A breach of the Regulations is, in most cases, a criminal offence.'
Armed with this information I fired off an email to the seller, it should be noted at this point that this was a business seller so I'm not sure if the same rules would apply to an individual, I listed all of the faults along with a detailed summary of my nightmare journey home and highlighted the fact that there had been omissions and mistruths told in the selling of this car. The sellers reply included such gems as; these are copied & pasted directly from the email they sent, just to let you know that any errors aren’t mine! 'im sure you diddnt expect to arrive and find a volvo is as new condition. the description did intimate that the car would require work. i am familiar with ebay rules and sale of goods act and these do take into account age and condition.' So basically I assume that what he was saying was that by including the abbreviation 'TLC' in an eBay description means, in his world, that you can legally sell someone a complete death trap with a clear conscience. To his credit he did also include this statement 'we are not out to con anyone (yes, as unbelievable as it may sound, they really DID actually say this!) and if your not happy you are welcome to return the car to us in exchange for a full refund. please advise me of your thoughts.'
I've probably bored you enough now however please consider this when next making a capital purchase on eBay or anywhere else for that matter, if at all possible pay by Visa credit NOT debit card as this gives you important legal protection via a piece of legislation known as Section 75, it also means that your credit card provider has an equal amount of responsibility as the seller. Yes there may be a 3% charge but just think of it as your payment for your guarantee. I had purchased via my Visa debit card which complicated things slightly but, as it was blatantly obvious that the car was not 'fit for purpose', the seller didn't have any defence.
In an effort to resolve the matter quickly, and on the understanding that I received a full refund, I made the seller an offer to deliver the car via trailer to a local live auction house as there was no way I was taking the car back over 300 miles, incidentally Trading Standards had said that it was the sellers legal responsibility to collect the car. I just wanted it sorted, and quickly. Seemingly hesitantly they accepted my offer to deliver it to the auction but said that they would only transfer my refund monies to my account once I had delivered it to the auction house complete with the vehicle documents. I’ve got to say that I was less than impressed, this was obviously them not trusting me to deliver the car after I’d received my refund, quite unbelievable!!!
The moral to the story is, if buying a car off eBay ask the seller if, on collection, you can test drive the car before completing the transaction, if they have nothing to hide then they will agree to this. Also, if possible, pay via Visa credit card thereby availing yourself of the protective qualities of Section 75, I appreciate that not all sellers offer this facility but if it’s available use it, it may cost you a lot more than 3% if you don’t!
Finally I’d like to state that this experience has not put me off buying a V70, I still intend doing so but I will be much more careful in my dealings, in future I’ll be doing what I should have done in this instance, as well as checking every nook & cranny I’ll also insist on driving the car before completing my payment, if the seller disagrees then I simply won’t be buying it!
For posterity I am copying & pasting the sellers original listing description from eBay, you be the judge as to whether you think it was fair of the seller not to mention all of the faults that I’ve listed:-
Volvo V70 Estate
D5 S 2401cc
To Be Sold To the Highest Bidder Without Reserve
1st Registered 28th March 2002
Silver in Colour
Diesel (Manual
Towbar Fitted
1 Former Keeper
Mot'd 21st September 2011
Taxed till 30th Septemebr 2011
This car has been taken as a trade in, it was owned by a local vet from new, it has been used as a working vehicle and shows signs of wear and tare, there are some bumps and scratches, the worst can be seen in the photos provided, it has a service history up to 147000 miles, there is a slight blow from the exhaust. With a bit of TLC this car could be made into a good reliable estate car again.
Low starting price with no reserve.
Buyer to make contact within 24 hours of auctions end to discuss payment and collection details.
Auction will run till it's end, there is no buy it now price, highest bidder will win.
Once I arrived at the dealers I was greeted by the guy who I'd asked, prior to bidding by the way, whether there was any other message being displayed other than 'SERVICE URGENT' that I could see on the photographs, he'd replied 'no, it's probably just over its standard service interval, nope, there's just a slight blow from the exhaust but other than that there's nothing else'. Being the trusting kind I took him at his word, never again! Anyway I could see the car in the compound and all looked fine, again due to my trusting, some would say stupid/naive nature, after a quick clarification from the same guy I'd spoken to earlier that the SRS airbag light definitely was not on, along with a check of the service book which DIDN’T have details of any cam belt change, another cost concern, I made my payment by Visa Debit, how I wish that I’d used my Visa credit!
The first sign of things not being quite as they should be was when I was handed a single tatty looking key with no remote fob, when I questioned if there was another key or any remote fobs a quick shake of the head was the only reply. Hmmmmm, economical with the truth sprang to mind, they’d not mentioned this in the listing description, I appreciate that it's fairly common to receive a used car with only one key as spares go astray, but not to have a remote surely meant that the alarm system would be useless!
After paying, and STILL - admittedly foolishly - not having inspected the car, I had another quick chat with the same guy who had informed me that the SRS AIRBAG message was not displayed, he reassured me there was just a little blow from the manifold area of the exhaust but other than that, with a little bit of time and money, it would make a great estate car again. At this point he also mentioned that someone else had taken the car for a test drive and that they had mentioned that the suspension maybe had a couple of faults, hmmmmm strange how this had not been mentioned before. Anyway I'd paid and, not having a return rail ticket and being over 300 miles from home, I had little option other than to bite the bullet and take the car; surely it couldn't get any worse......................
For the first time I went to check the car, before starting it I checked the fluid levels, the oil appeared a little high and the water appeared a little low, however neither were alarming enough to doubt that the car would be ok on its 300+ journey home, in fact the engine bay area looked VERY clean, thinking about it now it was obviously TOO clean when you consider that the rest of the car, cosmetically inside & out, was a total mess, and that's being VERY kind, maybe this was the reason they said it’d been owned by a vet!
So I started her up with my gaze fixed on the LCD DIM display, sure enough there was the fatal message, SRS AIRBAG and below it SERVICE URGENT, obviously I wasn't happy but I just thought 'ok, lying bugger, DIM out, cartronix, £189.00, job done, not the end of the world, yeah I'm a patient sod aren't I!!!
Chocks away, the start of my journey began, as I exited the 'garage' forecourt there was a bit of a dip, as the car drove across the dip and up the other side there was all sorts of creaking, groaning and knocking from the nearside front suspension. STILL I thought ok, drop links, bushes or lower/upper arm, still not the end of the world. Yep, patience of a saint, that's me!
Other than the occasional creaking/knocking from the suspension and the LCD display doing an unnerving dance in my peripheral vision the car didn't seem to be driving too badly, that was until I got to my first incline, not a steep incline but an incline all the same. I was doing about 50MPH at this point and, as you do, in an effort to maintain your speed whilst going up an incline I depressed the accelerator slightly, Hmmmm I thought, was that a puff of smoke I saw in my rear view mirror or was it getting decidedly foggy to my rear?
I didn't have to wait long for my answer as, with each passing incline, and there are lots of those in Scotland, the black smoke got worse, to the extent that I had to decelerate and slowly lose speed whilst climbing, any attempt at maintaining my speed by acceleration was met by plumes of black smoke, and I really mean thick plumes! I was also suffer severe vibration from the steering wheel on braking, a sure sign that the front discs are shot!
Although obviously raging by this point, yes my patience had finally snapped :realmad: , I thought it'll all be okay once I get on some clear, level-ish motorway..........NOT SO!!!! Once on the motorway I attempted to increase my speed up to 70MPH but this car did not want to play, I reached 70MPH but within minutes the engine management light flickered on and the engine appeared to stall with a simultaneous violent shake of the car, instinctively I took my foot off the gas and thankfully the engine re-started. Okay I thought, the temperature level is where it should be, the balance of my journey home, about 250 miles, would have to be done at around 60MPH, after which point I was asking for, and getting, a full refund, NOT GOOD!
Between that point and getting home, yes I did actually manage to nurse it home, I had one more really nasty incident, I was travelling down the A1M at about 60MPH, certainly no more than that, and, slowly but surely, I was closing in on a heavy goods vehicle, with buttocks clenched I indicated right and pulled into the fast lane, having got past the HGV I indicated left and pulled back in, at that precise point the engine management light flashed on/off again, the engine stalled again with another violent shudder and I obviously started to lose speed. In my rear view mirror I could see the HGV heading towards me, closing the gap at an alarming rate with his full beam held on, not what I needed at this stage :bluegrab: Obviously I lifted off the accelerator and pulled over onto the hard shoulder at which point the engine sprang back into life, far too close a call for comfort! I don’t think of myself as the perfect driver, however I've been driving for over 30 years and therefore have a wealth of experience, I really dread to think what the outcome would have been had it been a much younger or much older person that had bought this car.
During the final leg of my journey, when I wasn't nursing the car up an incline, I was filled with the thought of what 'er indoors' was going to say about all this :lala: , how I'd been stitched up etc., I’m sure all you blokes out there can empathise. As it turned out she was great and just said 'at least you got home in one piece'
Oh I almost forgot, when I got onto my street, I daren't do this before in case the car died altogether, I dropped my window and accelerated to see if I could hear any strange noises, basically what I heard sounded like a load of broken bits of metal being shaken violently in a metallic jar, rightly or wrongly I guessed that this was the turbo attempting to spool but failing as it was broken (change the word broken to a more suitable word of your choice, it will probably reflect my thoughts at the time more accurately!)
The following day I went out to see if the car would start, before doing so I lifted the bonnet to check the fluid levels, it was at this point that I noticed that the whole left hand side of the engine was totally covered in a sooty deposit, little wonder then that they'd obviously cleaned the engine bay prior to me collecting it. Devious? You be the judge! So was it the EGR valve? A split hose? A broken turbo? Clogged intercooler? To be quite honest at this point I was totally past caring, I just wanted a full refund, eBay purchase or not! I even discovered that there were NO rear registration plate lights, both bulbs were out, and only one dipped beam headlight was working! Seriously, how bad/slack/unprofessional/couldn’t care less, does a garage need to be to send a customer on their way with DEFECTIVE ROAD LIGHTS??? I also found that the tailgate wouldn’t open, yes I’d bought car which was to be used primarily for transporting my dogs yet they wouldn’t be able to enter through the tailgate!!!
After speaking to Trading Standards I was informed that under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) I was well within my rights to ask for, and expect, a full refund as the car was obviously 'not fit for purpose' and under the The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 the seller was also guilty of 'misleading practices (includes both acts and omissions).' and that 'A breach of the Regulations is, in most cases, a criminal offence.'
Armed with this information I fired off an email to the seller, it should be noted at this point that this was a business seller so I'm not sure if the same rules would apply to an individual, I listed all of the faults along with a detailed summary of my nightmare journey home and highlighted the fact that there had been omissions and mistruths told in the selling of this car. The sellers reply included such gems as; these are copied & pasted directly from the email they sent, just to let you know that any errors aren’t mine! 'im sure you diddnt expect to arrive and find a volvo is as new condition. the description did intimate that the car would require work. i am familiar with ebay rules and sale of goods act and these do take into account age and condition.' So basically I assume that what he was saying was that by including the abbreviation 'TLC' in an eBay description means, in his world, that you can legally sell someone a complete death trap with a clear conscience. To his credit he did also include this statement 'we are not out to con anyone (yes, as unbelievable as it may sound, they really DID actually say this!) and if your not happy you are welcome to return the car to us in exchange for a full refund. please advise me of your thoughts.'
I've probably bored you enough now however please consider this when next making a capital purchase on eBay or anywhere else for that matter, if at all possible pay by Visa credit NOT debit card as this gives you important legal protection via a piece of legislation known as Section 75, it also means that your credit card provider has an equal amount of responsibility as the seller. Yes there may be a 3% charge but just think of it as your payment for your guarantee. I had purchased via my Visa debit card which complicated things slightly but, as it was blatantly obvious that the car was not 'fit for purpose', the seller didn't have any defence.
In an effort to resolve the matter quickly, and on the understanding that I received a full refund, I made the seller an offer to deliver the car via trailer to a local live auction house as there was no way I was taking the car back over 300 miles, incidentally Trading Standards had said that it was the sellers legal responsibility to collect the car. I just wanted it sorted, and quickly. Seemingly hesitantly they accepted my offer to deliver it to the auction but said that they would only transfer my refund monies to my account once I had delivered it to the auction house complete with the vehicle documents. I’ve got to say that I was less than impressed, this was obviously them not trusting me to deliver the car after I’d received my refund, quite unbelievable!!!
The moral to the story is, if buying a car off eBay ask the seller if, on collection, you can test drive the car before completing the transaction, if they have nothing to hide then they will agree to this. Also, if possible, pay via Visa credit card thereby availing yourself of the protective qualities of Section 75, I appreciate that not all sellers offer this facility but if it’s available use it, it may cost you a lot more than 3% if you don’t!
Finally I’d like to state that this experience has not put me off buying a V70, I still intend doing so but I will be much more careful in my dealings, in future I’ll be doing what I should have done in this instance, as well as checking every nook & cranny I’ll also insist on driving the car before completing my payment, if the seller disagrees then I simply won’t be buying it!
For posterity I am copying & pasting the sellers original listing description from eBay, you be the judge as to whether you think it was fair of the seller not to mention all of the faults that I’ve listed:-
Volvo V70 Estate
D5 S 2401cc
To Be Sold To the Highest Bidder Without Reserve
1st Registered 28th March 2002
Silver in Colour
Diesel (Manual
Towbar Fitted
1 Former Keeper
Mot'd 21st September 2011
Taxed till 30th Septemebr 2011
This car has been taken as a trade in, it was owned by a local vet from new, it has been used as a working vehicle and shows signs of wear and tare, there are some bumps and scratches, the worst can be seen in the photos provided, it has a service history up to 147000 miles, there is a slight blow from the exhaust. With a bit of TLC this car could be made into a good reliable estate car again.
Low starting price with no reserve.
Buyer to make contact within 24 hours of auctions end to discuss payment and collection details.
Auction will run till it's end, there is no buy it now price, highest bidder will win.