Aiding and abetting

[Andy Northface]

One of my least favourite family members has lent her car to her boyfriend to go to work a few times KNOWING HE HAD NO LICENSE.The police stopped him and seized her car and are going to crush it.Please tell me she is going to get a hefty fine and loads of points. What annoys me is that this lazy little niece of mine has never worked since the day she left school ( she's now 30 ),Her dad keeps giving her cars that she never maintains and just drives until they blow up! I would love to see her banned because she already has points!!

The same person tried to sue me after she fell over in my garden even after my wife done the buffet for her wedding the previous week for nothing as a favour to her father. ( my uncle)

Ps,she is being done for aiding and abetting

[dew1911]

I don't think she'd get points, Aiding and Abetting is not a motoring offence but a Crown/Civil one (I forget which sorry), could be looking at a fine and slap on the wrist/community service/don't drop the soap punishment.

[Andy Northface]

I don't think she'd get points, Aiding and Abetting is not a motoring offence but a Crown/Civil one (I forget which sorry), could be looking at a fine and slap on the wrist/community service/don't drop the soap punishment.

Damn,I hate her because she's so smug,she is after a convertible now like my sister in law and is after her dad buying her one,The stupid bugger probably will as well! :(

[dew1911]

All that can make you feel better is people like this usually get whats coming to them eventually.

It could still carry a heafty fine and proceedings from the court outside of points, so maybe a stint in the cells and a four figure fine will knock some **** out of her?

[Andy Northface]

All that can make you feel better is people like this usually get whats coming to them eventually.

It could still carry a heafty fine and proceedings from the court outside of points, so maybe a stint in the cells and a four figure fine will knock some **** out of her?

Bloody hope so mate:thumbs_up:

[Paul240480]

If my memory serves and things haven't changed, her offence would come under 'using, causing or permitting' . By knowingly allowing the offence she is 'permitting' driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence - no licence.
She can have points put on her driver record, so depending on how many she already has a ban could be given under totting up .
Whatever I hope she gets hammered, but with all the wishy washy, namby pamby, do gooders out there she'll probably get a small fine which will never be paid and a little bit of comm service that she'll get off of with a Drs note.:lightning:

[Andy Northface]

If my memory serves and things haven't changed, her offence would come under 'using, causing or permitting' . By knowingly allowing the offence she is 'permitting' driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence - no licence.
She can have points put on her driver record, so depending on how many she already has a ban could be given under totting up .
Whatever I hope she gets hammered, but with all the wishy washy, namby pamby, do gooders out there she'll probably get a small fine which will never be paid and a little bit of comm service that she'll get off of with a Drs note.:lightning:

I hope she gets hammered as well mate,I've just rang her dad and he said it will cost him £120 to get the car back ( manky old micra ) and he is not sure if he is want's it back " as it will be a marked car?". It is really his car ( on the logbook ) but she has got it because her car had a burnt out clutch and was scrapped last week.

[david philips]

as allready has been said she will get what she is due may not be this time but it will come what you have said (lent her car to her boyfriend to go to work a few times KNOWING HE HAD NO LICENSE) tells you that her boy friend is a waster and is not to concerned about useing her,its only a mater of time before they fall out or get into more trobble.

[RUTV70]

What goes round...comes round.
Whatever she gets it probably won't be as much as she deserves.

Neil

[Andy Northface]

What goes round...comes round.
Whatever she gets it probably won't be as much as she deserves.

Neil

Yup,she always seems to come up smelling of roses.If she fell in the Tyne she would come out with her pockets full of tinned salmon! If I fell in I would break my neck on a shopping trolley! :)

[andy_d]

if your uncle is th reg'd keeper (log book)her + Bf actions may come back on him as well,
not too sure how it all works in cases where X is the reg keeper,, but its "H " car ,,and Z was driving it.
he's prob right in the "marked" bit, the police could have a record/flag set that "reg number" was being driven without licence / insurance on there anpr systems, and would/could be a bit more liable to stop/check it when seen next on road.

[kebab10]

Looks like they could all face a day in court and some considerable expense. Some people never learn.

[Andy Northface]

My uncle has traders insurance and the Micra was one of his cars. Now her insuranceallows her to drive any car that doesn't belong to her ( same as me ) but I thought you had to be insured on a car for this to work?I don't know which car she is insured on because my uncle has scrapped both of her last cars.
Her previous( a really nice Polo ) it was overheating,All it wanted was a switch but she refused to pay for one and she used to drive it,let it cool down,then drive it,She seized the engine,then he gave her a Saxo which her and her friends burnt the clutch out of.Finally he gave her the Micra which he has to pay to get back. He is doing himself no favours,but he has a blind spot where she is.She wont pay for repairs,he has to,and tax,MOT and replace tyres.If he can't get there to repair it she will drive it anyway even if she does more damage.

I hope she and her ilk are forced off the roads. Our lass HATES her with a passion and is always having a pop at him for being to soft.

[galloot633]

I didnt know about it at the time, but my daughters first husband ( not for long I"m pleased to say ) didnt have a license , my daughter did and he used to threaten her unless she handed over the keys to her car , thank god he never had an accident, but I still wonder how she would have stood in the eyes of the law if he'd been caught
dave

[andy_d]

No Insurance (Driving Without Valid Insurance)

The Offence

Using, or letting someone else use, a vehicle with no valid insurance

Likely Punishment

Fine up to £5000, 6-8 penalty points and discretionary disqualification


Driving Otherwise than in Accordance with a Licence

The Offence

driving a motor vehicle on the road that you do not have a relevant driving licence

Likely Punishment

Fine up to £1000, 3-6 penalty points and discretionary disqualification

ow for Bf
not good for niece either,, as from DVLA pdf on "information on driving licence"

Aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring
A person who ‘aids, abets, counsels or procures’ another
person to commit an offence (that is helps or causes them
to commit an offence, or gives them advice on how to do
so) will be punished as if they had committed it. ‘Aiding,
and so on’ has its own offence code and is set apart from
the other offences in this leaflet.
Offences are coded as set out in section ‘penalty points
and disqualifications’, but with the 0 changed to 2 (for
example, LC20 becomes LC22). The penalty points for
the conviction are the same.



ow + oppsie,, depends which one they stick on BF as to which one neice gets as well,,matching points + fine ,,,ow

[Andy Northface]

I didnt know about it at the time, but my daughters first husband ( not for long I"m pleased to say ) didnt have a license , my daughter did and he used to threaten her unless she handed over the keys to her car , thank god he never had an accident, but I still wonder how she would have stood in the eyes of the law if he'd been caught
dave

There was a girl on our estate years ago and she had a Corsa and she was always pootling around to the shops and whatever,swimbo was often in her car and so were our kids.She then had a thing on her Facebook a couple of years ago (we had moved since then) and it was congratulating herself on passing her test!!!!!!!!! We had just assumed because she was driving she had passed her test! Well you would, wouldn't you?

It makes me wonder how many people pout there have no license?

[tt82]

My uncle has traders insurance and the Micra was one of his cars. Now her insuranceallows her to drive any car that doesn't belong to her ( same as me ) but I thought you had to be insured on a car for this to work?I don't know which car she is insured on because my uncle has scrapped both of her last cars.
Her previous( a really nice Polo ) it was overheating,All it wanted was a switch but she refused to pay for one and she used to drive it,let it cool down,then drive it,She seized the engine,then he gave her a Saxo which her and her friends burnt the clutch out of.Finally he gave her the Micra which he has to pay to get back. He is doing himself no favours,but he has a blind spot where she is.She wont pay for repairs,he has to,and tax,MOT and replace tyres.If he can't get there to repair it she will drive it anyway even if she does more damage.

I hope she and her ilk are forced off the roads. Our lass HATES her with a passion and is always having a pop at him for being to soft.

I think your right there andy, to have an insurance policy that allows you to drive another vehicle TPFT you must first have an insurance policy. Dont know wether you can do that without actually insuring a specific car.

Also the TPFT cover only applies if the car itself has a valid insurance policy. If your uncle uses a traders policy then its unlikely that the cars are insured and as such she will be driving them uninsured.

Is there anything you can do to assist with them getting banned? Like having a word with local plod about possible uninsured drivers and and when there likely to use the car. An unfortunate side effect of this may be that your uncle may be charged with permitting to drive uninsured, but it may also be the kick up the backside he needs to stop bending over backwards for her.

[Andy Northface]

Thanks for the info,Andy D

[Andy Northface]

@TT82. I know what you mean,I love my uncle dearly,he is the one member of my so called family that I can rely on and I would love her to stop ripping the **** out of him. I would like to think this might be a wake up call. His son is LIVID as well,he is always telling him he is too soft with her.I think she has 6 point already ( using a phone and doing 45 in a 30 ) so I'm hoping she gets a few more.I wonder if she has informed her insurance company of her points? Her Insurance would be very expensive!

[tt82]

Well tbh Andy, best case scenario is only that your uncle inncurs some punishment himself and thus stops giving her cars to use. From what you say I can only imagine if she gets banned then it wont stop her driving, much like the rest of the disqualfied drivers in this country. After all once your banned another ban isnt going to make any difference. It will take several arrest before a proper punishment like prison time will be handed down to her.

[LankyTim]

I think the only way she could get out of being done for "aiding and abetting" would be to say her BF took the car without her consent, i.e stole it, either that or say she thought he was insured and had a licence.

The plod love doing motorists (as we all know) so I imagine whatever happens someone will be getting done over big time. Just sit back and watch the carnage unfold.

[Rustee]

why not check out the askmid database to see it the cars are insured?

[Andy Northface]

I think the only way she could get out of being done for "aiding and abetting" would be to say her BF took the car without her consent, i.e stole it, either that or say she thought he was insured and had a licence.

The plod love doing motorists (as we all know) so I imagine whatever happens someone will be getting done over big time. Just sit back and watch the carnage unfold.

No,she has already told the police she consented to him using it.So she is in the s@@t as well

why not check out the askmid database to see it the cars are insured?

Not sure what you mean mate.I don't know the reg's either?

My uncle is going too see her later,he sounded well sick when I rang him earlier.

[tt82]

why not check out the askmid database to see it the cars are insured?




Not sure what you mean mate.I don't know the reg's either?

My uncle is going too see her later,he sounded well sick when I rang him earlier.

askmid (http://www.askmid.com/)

Theres the askmid website, you can check if any car is on the Motor Insurance Database. I think it used to be free but now it cost £3.75 per search. Always an option but I think Crimestoppers will be an easier and cheaper route.

[V70Driver]

If the boy friend has no licence, then where are the Courts going to put the inevitable "points"? Am I right in thinking this was not his debut at driving with no licence and insurance. So the Court's putting "points" on his imaginary licence wont deter him from driving again, nor would I suspect any subsequent fine. If she has admitted to the law he had her permission to drive her car, knowing full well he has no licence and thus no insurance, surely she will end up with a criminal record, which would to me appear worse than points on your licence. Any future request to purchase insurance will result in her having to declare her criminal record for a traffic related offence, the cost will be huge and most likely prohibitive, which will probably result in her driving around without any cover at all.
V70Driver

[andy_d]

with "points" already on her licence,, it wont be cheap to insure anyway...with "more", f she escapes a ban,, and one being the "no insurance/no licence" version it really wont be cheap.

means any "next" car she has if not insured /etc 100% legal will be at serious risk of being siezed and taken for disposal.

uncle would be well advised of this as well, seeing as its him buying the car....

with luck ,, she/bf wont have a car to just carry on regardless in.

cant see andy being 1st in the queue to offer them lifts everywhere either.....

[Andy Northface]

IF she reports her points to the insurance company.She can always send a photo copy? I WILL keep you informed because I see her uncle every week.:thumbs_up:


cant see andy being 1st in the queue to offer them lifts everywhere either..... I would see her in hell first.

She wouldn't have the nerve to ask if she could borrow my car,my whole family regards me as a right bore about being fully legit' with my car.

[Paul240480]

If the boy friend has no licence, then where are the Courts going to put the inevitable "points"?

DVLA will create a driver record, and the points will be added to it. Plod have to apply (or used too) to DVLA using a Form DQ1 to get a copy of the Driver Record. That is the court admissable evidence for all driving offences that end up with a trial. They will apply to DVLA to prove the 'no licence' offence.
This is the same for those that drive whilst under age, once they get to 17 and apply for a licence it is issued with relevant points already added.

[andy_d]

it might "seem" a bit boring to make sure you have
licence/tax/mot/insurance, but you get to keep your car with all 4, without getting poits/fines for Just driving it.

ok with the £ the thieves hiked insurance this year it could tempt some to think "sod it"..but tbh unless you have a £50 car, and dont mind a £££££ fine + lost licence,,,,its not really worth not being an "old bore"

[Andy Northface]

I have just seen my nephew and apparently she told the police that she let him use the car,but he told her that he had passed his test.Still uninsured though.his dad told him he can't afford to get the car out at the minute because he has money worries of his own.So it looks as if it will be crushed. Good.:thumbs_up:

[V70Driver]

I have just seen my nephew and apparently she told the police that she let him use the car,but he told her that he had passed his test.Still uninsured though.his dad told him he can't afford to get the car out at the minute because he has money worries of his own.So it looks as if it will be crushed. Good.:thumbs_up:

Yes, but what he tells her and others is probably as different as black is to white. If he has finally got a licence why did he not go the next step and get insurance? If he has a licence why was his name not simply put on her insurance as a named driver? Is it because he has a murky past with previous convictions etc.
To be honest they both need to be taken off the road, him for having no insurance and possibly no licence and her for assisting with RTA violations in such a cavalier attitude.
V70Driver

[Andy Northface]

Yes, but what he tells her and others is probably as different as black is to white. If he has finally got a licence why did he not go the next step and get insurance? If he has a licence why was his name not simply put on her insurance as a named driver? Is it because he has a murky past with previous convictions etc.
To be honest they both need to be taken off the road, him for having no insurance and possibly no licence and her for assisting with RTA violations in such a cavalier attitude.
V70Driver

Why have insurance when you can weed and beer? :( I don't know why,but I'm sure her dad has her on his insurance.I could be wrong.

[XC60MY12]

it might "seem" a bit boring to make sure you have
licence/tax/mot/insurance, but you get to keep your car with all 4, without getting poits/fines for Just driving it.

ok with the £ the thieves hiked insurance this year it could tempt some to think "sod it"..but tbh unless you have a £50 car, and dont mind a £££££ fine + lost licence,,,,its not really worth not being an "old bore"

And why should the rest of us pay for the @rce'oles who don't bother to insure their vehicles?

[Andy Northface]

Again a member of the same family a few years ago passed his test and insured his car and then crashed it a few days later. What was the damage I asked? "**** knows he said,I did a runner coz I cancelled my insurance before I had to pay the first payment! " " I'm not paying because It's too much!" I also know someone who used to use his traders insurance to tax the local toe-rags cars ( no insurance see? ). This was a few years ago mind.