Scary experience

[joss]

On Friday on the motorway (doing 40 in roadworks) I went to accelerate gently and there was no response. I looked down at the pedal and saw the brake pedal hit the floor by itself. The car stopped dead and caused a pileup behind me.

The police are investigating by getting the ecu downloaded. At the time there was no error message. Does anyone know what information they can get from the ecu? I am afraid that if it is not conclusive volvo may not take action and other people may be at risk. I am not trying to be scaremongering, but I like many others wanted this car partly for its safety reputation and this has freaked me out.

Has anyone heard of it happening to anyone else?

[Peter Milnes]

The police will need to investigate the OBD for readings, the ECU/ICU and gearbox for possible effects. The gearbox may be quite likely as there have been reports of sluggish time-lag on acceleration, which Volvo should have cured by now ( I think they are playing Ostriches again).

Are you a Club member? if so would you like to register your car on the XC90 register? Let me know if you would and I can send you an electronic version of the form for you to print, fill out and send back to me (either by scanning and attaching to e-mail, or by snail-mail)

All the best, Peter

[George Holmer]

Thank God I drive a real car is all I say..

George

[link:www.ttsservices.co.uk/my%20volvos.htm|http://www.ttsservices.co.uk/imm021.jpg]

'95 940 Polar LPT estate (B230FK/AW71)
'87 740 GLE Turbo Diesel Intercooler estate (D24TIC/ZF22)
'79 262C (B27E/BW55)

[Bob]

I have been in touch with the owner of the car above and VCUK, and VCUK have examined one car which may or may not be the same car as mentioned above. I will pass on any useful info if anything comes my way.

Bob Isaac
Forum Admin
robert.isaac@volvoclub.org.uk

[Alex]

I experienced something similar on the M4 in road works doing about 40, when the road cleared I pushed the gas and nothing, I had time to think about pushing the hazard warning lights and moving to the hard shoulder when power was restored. Our Volvo dealer didn’t seem to take much notice but after its 3000 mile check and a lot of software/firmware uploads our D5 XC90 seems to be performing better with less turbo lag, perhaps the engine management system was to blame.

[Peter Milnes]

Are you a Club member? if so would you like to register your car on the XC90 register? Let me know if you would and I can send you an electronic version of the form for you to print, fill out and send back to me (either by scanning and attaching to e-mail, or by snail-mail)


All the best, Peter

[splutterycar]

I reported The 'lag' in pulling away several weeks ago to my dealer.It would appear Volvo know about it.
It only seems to happen on diesel auto's and is caused by a too smaller turbo fitted. (So they say.) I own two garages and am looking into my own cure.May mean 'chipping' it and voiding my warranty, but would rather that than put my family at risk.
Will let you know how I get on.

[Peter Milnes]

They certainly should know about it as they appear to have cured it by dint of software downloads on at least a few XC90 D5s.

All the best, Peter

[foggyjames]

Ironically, as a rule, the smaller the turbo, the smaller the lag! I simply don't buy that excuse from Volvo. I'd certainly wait to see if they can get you an ECU update before getting an aftermarket one.

cheers

James

[volvotuning]

James,

You're right!!! It's nothing to do with the turbo - it's all in the software.

Adam.

[Iank]

The S80 D5 auto has the same problem and I have been fighting with Volvo UK since July 2003 when I picked up the car brand new off the floor. Basically you get bounced between the dealer and Volvo UK. I do not blame the dealer as the dealer has no control over the software design in the car however they could shout a bit louder as they have more clout than us peasants!

Here is part of a reply that I recevied for the following question;
Question;
"I have been informed that a third party software upgrade called Rica ECU Upgrade removes a lot of the hesitation and stays within emissions parameters. Why is a third party able to design software that eliminates the problem but the manufacturer is not able to do this although complaints started with the 2002.5 S80 Volvos? I would like to know why this software is not offered to owners of S80s with the automatic gearbox free of charge by Volvo. I would also like to know if we are going to be re-imburse for buying a car with inadequate software."

The answer;

"Volvo are unable to use the third party software you have been made aware of as this has not been tested and approved by Volvo or passed the relevant homologation standards.

Any enhancements added to the vehicle will be covered under the 3 year / 60,000 mile manufactures warranty. Once the warranty expires customers have the option to purchase extended warranty. The cost of any repairs or enhancements carried out on the vehicle outside of the warranty period will be the responsibility of the owner."

[k690bpp]

not sure but there was a recall on xc90's by dealers because the abs was activating on its own.

dealers replaced the front sensors with modded ones, has this been done to yours???

double check this as i don't own a xc90 and i am trying to remember what i read somewhere.

[joss]

Well guess what, it just happened again.

After the March incident we got absolutely nowhere with Volvo. They did a download of the ECU - no error codes. We asked them repeatedly to do further testing, they refused. We had no use of the car for 3 months. Eventually we had to accept a personal assurance from Rob Thomas, Director of Customer Service, that the car was not faulty.

The car was repaired by a Volvo dealer and the ECU upgrades were done at the same time. Pick up did improve afterwards.

We drove the car around France in the summer, and it has behaved itself thus far.

On Sunday evening, while exiting the motorway on a slip road, so off the gas, doing about 40 - the emergency brake assist came on again - the pedal hit the floor without me pushing it - and we stopped abruptly. Luckily this time there was no-one behind us. Stiil scary though.

The factors that were the same were these:
Had been going at 70 ish for a while
Slowed to 40
Was not braking
At the moment the EBA came on, my husband was making a call on a mobile.

We have called Volvo and are waiting for a return call - watch this space....

[foggyjames]

I hope no-one in this thread was driving the silver XC90 which overtook me on the A27 just short of the M27 on Sunday night - breaking the speed limit in a 40, then held me up in the following 60! Charming!

I was under the impression that this was a problem with the turbo failing to spool quickly enough, causing sluggish pick-up from low revs? Is there a separate problem with one of the braking assist systems kicking in when it shouldn't?! That's mad!

I'm not sure what's wrong with normal brakes...ABS is useful for a daily drive, but anything else is just compensating for lack of driving ability. The manufacturers would be better off teaching people how to drive properly than making overcomplicated braking systems! Rant over... :)

Reading this again I feel really old...I'm 20 BTW...

cheers

James

[Andy]

> my husband was making a call on
>a mobile.


Interference with car electronics? Was he on the phone last time it happened?

[Peter Milnes]

Excellent point Andy. Too few people realise that mobile phones used inside cars can cause grave problems for the large amount of electronics inside the modern car. The wiring loom acts as an aerial and passes the signals all round the car, which is why you should pull over and switch off whenever you wish to have a mobile used in the car, even by a passenger. Remember the problems with fuel pumps and mobiles?

All the best, Peter.

[foggyjames]

Electro-magnetic compatibility! I'm studying that at university at the moment. Very important, but also a great way to send yourself to sleep...

cheers

James

[George Holmer]

What an improvement... the more I read, the less convinced I get about modern cars.

George

[link:www.ttsservices.co.uk/my%20volvos.htm|http://www.ttsservices.co.uk/Signature.JPG]

'95 Volvo 945 Polar LPT
'87 Volvo 745 GLE Turbo Diesel Intercooler
'86 Jaguar Sovereign 4.2

[Wentworth Man]

Just a thought, what Mobile service Provider was your husband using. I know BMW had an issue with Orange and wouldnt fit Ornage glass mounts as they wouldnt warrant interference with the airbag system. Electronic interference is always a possibility depending on the frequency, installation and shielding of the cables.

[foggyjames]

I've got to write a 2500 word essay about this very subject for Tuesday (Electromagnetic Compatibility in automobiles). Well...about interference with engine management systems, but near enough. Happy days...

cheers

James

[joss]

Yes it was Orange both times. Two different phones though.

Latest is we are meeting the Field Engineer (who inspected the car after the last incident) at the dealer to discuss it and see if the car needs to go back to Volvo for further testing.

Which is what we asked for the first time and they flatly refused!!

[Wentworth Man]

I'm putting £1 each way on electromagnetic interference from the Orange mobile and its 1900MHz signal frequency. Glass or body mounted antenna or entirely handheld? Vodaphone et all the others run on 1800MHz and didnt seem to have the same problems with BMW.

[foggyjames]

I have a suggestion based on my research for my essay. Get Volvo (or do it yourselves, if you wish!) to run the car on a dyno, then make a phone call near it. Alternatively, there are EMC testing facilities which can bombard the car with this kind of interference with the intention of highlighting any weaknesses in the vehicle's immunity - thus making for a more scientific test.

In order for the car to be sold in Europe, it must conform to EU directive 95/54/EC, which is a dry read to put it politely...

cheers

James

[Wentworth Man]

..and of course it will comply, but that was only the vehicle which was submitted for that test on that date in that specific configuration, and it won't necessarily account for every vehicle built as they will all be slightly different - and it only means one minor change and it could introduce a susceptibilty to interference.

I can't see Volvo doing anything until a number of people/ dealers have reported the same...and Volvo confirm it themselves.....unless it is a goodwill gesture as a recall is very, very expensive!

Just in case anyone reading this thread thinks I want this to be the case I really, really don't. It has taken me 3 years to get an antenna fitted to the BMW so I can have Orange (Company mobile and poor signal area) as BMW said I had to have a body mount but it would invalidate the rust warranty and equally/ conversely, wouldn't warrant a glass mount for the reasons given above. So please, I hope I am wrong as I was seriously thinking about a new one, honest :)

[Andre G]

Joss,

Any follow up on your experience?

Cheers,

Andre

[joss]

Our car has been taken away and 'components' removed to be sent back to Sweden for testing. Meanwhile we have been given a fleet car to use. We have been told it may take a while....

[foggyjames]

I ended up getting straight As on all marking points for the essay on electromagnetic compatibility in cars as mentioned above...let's see if Volvo deserve the same mark for their research :)

cheers

James

[keith.talbot]

It's not 1900 MHz in the UK, not even Orange.

900 MHz or 1800 MHz

1900 MHz is somewhere overseas (probably USA)

(Sorry - just hate to let a mistake sit in the archives for ever)

Keith

[anj]

In my experience this is typical of the crap products Volvo now turn out! Pre Ford -SuperDuper apres Ford - a load of Kryptonite!

[foggyjames]

I suspect this is largely a coincidence - Ford have barely touched Volvo (with the exception of the S40/V50) since buying them, as they are the one PAG brand who actually turn in a profit worth speaking of.

cheers

James

[anj]

Not too sure on this one.

Where have all the door lights gone compairing my '96 V70 T5 to my 02 V70 D5, the quality of switchgear as well; a little 'cost down' has taken place I think.

Also there are many new Ford products waiting in the wings. The P1800Es type - a smaller retro version. XC90 V8!! (USA Only) New S80, and later this year new V70.

Yours
strapped into his finance deal & is in neg equity due to the mileage.ANJ

[foggyjames]

> a little 'cost down' has taken place I think.

I think this happens generation-on-generation.
Despite being much better designed, the materials quality in our V40 are not a patch on the 360 (its spiritual predecessor by two generations). Likewise the 800 / 70 series are lacking some of the quality fit and finish of the 900 series. In both cases superior design outweight the lack of 'quality'...but I know what you mean!

>
>XC90 V8!! (USA Only)

The word is we'll get this as soon as they've figured out how to make it fit with RHD (same problem as with 240 and 360 turbos).

>strapped into his finance deal & is in neg equity due to the
>mileage.

Tempt me into that shiny new car why don't you :) Mine is worth £300 at the most...and unlike our V40, it doesn't break down! Then again its a noisy heap...such is life :)

cheers

James

[cornerforce]

Hi, Not a pleasant experience you've had. About 10 months ago i had an accident in my S80. Another car came rushing into the side of me and spun me around. When i hit the brake pedal the whole lot hit the floor with no appreciable braking taking place. Bizarley 30 mins later the brakes were working perfectly. This was never looked into as the car was written off, and was never driven again but certainly suggests there may be a problem. With regards to the slow responding accelrator my replacement S80 was similar when i purchased it, many people have written on the forum about it being electronic, or an ecu based problem. My car never gave any warning lights to say so, or error codes, but after replaceing the MAF sensor, throttle response is back to normal and not as sluggish as you would think in a diesel, also there is a noticeable increase in power, so it appears these sensors degrade over time prior to complete failure and at that time the dash lights up.

Yours Jason

[joss]

Update: well there is still no news. We still have the fleet car (which has much better pickup and mpg) and our parts are still in a lab in Sweden.

Next week it will be one year exactly since the first incident!

[Alpha206]

Ah, someone else who misses the door lights (and even the reflective stickers!) I asked Volvo what had happened to them and their reply was that the hazard flashers had removed the need for them!


"Remember when it used to take three-and-a-half hours to cross the Atlantic?"

[foggyjames]

Hazard flashers? In what way do those replace door marker lights?! I mean I think they're a (unnecessary?) luxury, but I certainly can't see how hazard lights are an equal replacement! I smell a cost saving...

cheers

James

[anj]

James sorry but I've got to responsd to this one - Tempt you into that shiny new car! Yours is worth £300. Its not the point! During my travels throughout Europe for my business I need a reliable car The last bill for a full servive & other items was £1719.20 Sorry but its still a pile of kryptonite although it cost the best part of £28000 - its expensive kryptonite (cockney slang)
Yep I'm stuck with it with all its cost downs and unreliability. I had an S60 that was not much better Graeme Catnatch reminded me of this one as he has responded to a comment of mine earlier in this forum. I was previously on here as Alex Jennings with a pile of krypotonie in the form of a Scarab Green S60TS - You are right I am a dick head for buying another Volvo.

[foggyjames]

I'm not entirely sure I get you....but if this is what you mean...an old car doesn't have to mean an unreliable car. I certainly can't afford to have an unreliable car! We've had our 360 for 13 years and 100k miles (130k total), and it's never suffered a breakdown. I probably know first hand of about 10 360s, and I've never heard of a breakdown - and we're talking about cars which are at best 15 years old. Some of these cars have 250k+.

Mine is now in need of a bit of work that my folks didn't want to do because of it's age (carb rebuild for a start), but I think nothing of jumping in it, doing 500 miles in a day, and getting out at the end of it feeling fresh, and often having achieved 40-50mpg. The thought that I might not get there doesn't even cross my mind. The most expensive annual maintainance cost we've ever incurred is ~£1k, and the average is more like £300. It'll stay with the traffic in the outside lane of the M1 all day, and still return 30mpg average at 100.

All this in a package which - if you try hard enough - can be got for free. Of course the big downside is 'respectability'...a rusty POS 300 hardly casts the right image, especially in a business environment. Of course there are ways to remedy that...and we could be talking about any number of cars.

My housemates girlfriend bought a brand new Polo last year, on the basis that anything used would be unreliable. Perhaps the car-owners of the house don't set the best example (Metro, and I'm always intentionally breaking my car...)...but the finance payments are fairly crippling, and funnily enough my 17 year old car still starts every time, goes fairly well, stops, and gets decent MPG...and it's worth about the same as one of her monthly payments!!!

And it's not like my car is a total wreck...
http://www.foggyjames.co.uk/inbox/steve/DSCF0027.jpg

The best bit is she's planning to sell it at 3 years old - after the worst of the depriciation, and when she's got little on the benefit of the VW build quality!

Really, I'd love to be convinced to buy a new car, but 20k-30k is a lot to drop on an item which will only lose value - spectacularly so - and the reliability card certainly won't work! Now if I were to spend 30k on an Aston... :)

I accept that my odd-ball interest in old Volvos isn't too practical, but in my humble opinion, the way to buy a newish Volvo privately is to buy an ex-fleet car at about 3 years old, so a finance company have borne the brunt of the depriciation, the car has probably proven reliable (most fleets will take 'bad' cars out of circulation, and will spare no expense on maintainance), and (being a Volvo) will barely be run in!

cheers

James