Day of DISASTER !!!!!

[The Hooded Claw]

Remember this >>>

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=138542


And This >>>>>http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=137661


well today I went to pick up the S80 @ Brian's It all started soooo VERY WELL ..

A. The ABS Pump..............COMPLETE & WORKING

B. The ABS ECU................COMPLETE & WORKING

C. The Pre-Tensioner..........FITTED & WORKING

D. The Bottom Pulley..........FITTED & WORKING

the "Shearing" of the bottom Pulley had "Jumped a Tooth" on the Cam Belt so it was necessary to re-time everything.....BUT.... as you know the diesel D5252T engine is "Dynamically" timed so its ONLY possible to do this with the engine running & as the Pulleys were all off the timing of BOTH the Engine & the FIP were MILES OUT .....

Consequently it wouldn't start so we couldn't "Time it".. it was/is (This bit is STILL ongoing) only possible to Hand Crank the engine & Try it ...

This went on from 1PM to well after 5PM .. STILL NO JOY!!! ... at this point I gave up & Rang Andy (Thanatos) & asked him to come get me & take me home (I REALLY had, HAD ENOUGH today!!!)

SOMETHING is BADLY WRONG .. but we don't know what ..... The Engine timing is SET OK, the FIP timing is SET OK..... but the Damned thing WILL NOT FIRE UP.

Matty (Bri's No 1 Mech) is/was (shall we say "Struggling") to make sense of things & quite Frankly SO AM I !!!......

Heres the "Background" of things ... (After the Post in the link above)

It started & Drove into Bri's Garage (all be it "Clattery") The Engine timing was Locked off, The FIP timing was Locked off, the Pulley was exchanged & the Belts re-Fitted It then Started OK (ish) & when the pump timing was checked it was found to be 17 Degrees out. (4 Weeks ago Bri had set it at Zero Degrees so it was FINE then!!) ......We then discover the Cam Belt has "Slipped a Notch" so we correct this .... then we get the NO START Scenario

We can't "Check the timing" coz it won't start (See "Dynamic Timing" Above)

MY HEAD HURTS right about now!!!

Thoughts Gentlemen ??????


Keith

[outnumbered]

have you tried adjusting the dynamic pump timing in short increments to see if that will move it enough to start the car.
mike

[The Hooded Claw]

have you tried adjusting the dynamic pump timing in short increments to see if that will move it enough to start the car.
mike

YEP That's what we've bin up to most of the afternoon Mike .. A Tweek here & Crank ..... A Tweek there & Crank ... managed to run down MY battery & Two Booster packs & STILL NO JOY !!!!

SOMETHING is "Staring me in the Face" & I Can't see it.....

Engine ran at 17 Degrees out (approx One Tooth out on the belt).... adjust OUT the 17 Degrees (by moving the belt) & it won't start (I mean it doesn't even TRY at all !!!).....

NOTE*** we adjusted the belt BACK one tooth (Coz obviously it rotates Clockwise) & "Throwing a Tooth" would have thrown it FORWARDS ....

[david philips]

keith are you sure thet the cam wheel was a tooth out as the problim with not starting only came about when the cam was moved.i would think about the cam wheel is there any way this mark could be incorrect, good luck.

[stevo48]

Move the timing belt forward one tooth and theoretically it should start and run again, at that point you can start looking at the fuel pump timing again.

[SonyVaio]

Hi Keith,

It couldn't be complete coincedence and your crank sensor has given up the ghost??

:star-wars-smiley-01

[The Hooded Claw]

keith are you sure thet the cam wheel was a tooth out as the problim with not starting only came about when the cam was moved.i would think about the cam wheel is there any way this mark could be incorrect, good luck.

Hi David, I thought of that too but ....

3 weeks ago the timing was DEAD ON ... then last week the pulley Collapsed BUT IT DROVE OK... then we changed the pulley & IT STARTED OK(ish) but the timing is 17 Degrees out ..... the Timing marks from 3 weeks ago are/were EXACTLY 1 Tooth out so we remove the belt & re-align the marks NOW we have a TOTAL NON START scenario the ONLY Variable in all this is the pulley...

(clutching at Straws here) when the pulley collapsed it threw great lumps of rubber all over the place & we THINK a bit got caught in the Cam Belt & caused it to "Slip a Notch" ...... but now we've "adjusted" the Belt & BTW put it back to its "Slipped" position & Adjusted the "Free-Wheeling" pulley on the Cam to what we THINK it SHOULD be (there or There abouts) it SHOULD start to allow us to Read the timing & Adjust it to ZERO again...

But its a NO GO at all ... doersn't even THINK about Firing up ... it "Sounds" MILES OFF .....

Doin my head in is this !!!!

Move the timing belt forward one tooth and theoretically it should start and run again, at that point you can start looking at the fuel pump timing again.

Do That Steve ... NOTHING!!!!

Hi Keith,

It couldn't be complete coincedence and your crank sensor has given up the ghost??

:star-wars-smiley-01

I'm MISSING summott here Brian ... but at this point I'll take on board ANYTHING ANYONE has to offer!!!

Keith

[david philips]

i can not get away from the cam pully and mark could the pully be wrong the mark on a wrong place , maybe the pully of a diferent year or marks slightly different can the old one if still available be compaired along side it to check the posission of the marks.whatever take your time and be prepaired for a long investagation i would rather spend a few days sorting this than try starting it with the end result being bent valves and a bigger and costly job. i hope someone with more experence with these engines can give a better anwser and it gets sorted out,good luck .:car:

[The Hooded Claw]

i can not get away from the cam pully and mark could the pully be wrong the mark on a wrong place , maybe the pully of a diferent year or marks slightly different can the old one if still available be compaired along side it to check the posission of the marks.whatever take your time and be prepaired for a long investagation i would rather spend a few days sorting this than try starting it with the end result being bent valves and a bigger and costly job. i hope someone with more experence with these engines can give a better anwser and it gets sorted out,good luck .:car:

I follow yer train of thought David .. but it was my Bottom Pulley that Destroyed itself the timing marks (that we put on) are on the TOP pulley .. & they are BANG ON (both on the Cam Belt side & the Fuel pump Side)

This is why I cannot get my head around this ... we put it back EXACTLY to the marks that were there before (Marked by ME!) & so it SHOULD Fire up ... but it wont (& it "Sounds" like the timing is a Country Mile out) ...

You "Mark" something, dis-assemble it, replace the Duff part & then re-assemble it following the marks you put on it it SHOULD start but it won't
!!!

If we'd bin "Fiddling" in the Engine bay then I could understand we MAY have "Disturbed" something .. but the bottom pulley is/was replaced thru the off side Wheel arch The only thing that came off was the Damned Wheel !!!


My Heads hurting again ..LOL!!!!!

Keith

[thealchemyst]

Silly question but has the engine been turned at all when the pulley was off? Is it possible you have timed it in on the wrong cylinder ie 90 or 180 degrees out? Also when belts jump they do it at the crank not the can pulleys so if you've retarded the can pulleys it is possible that you've now set the timing 34 degrees out rather than resetting it back to zero. Good luck with it
Also Obvious to you and your mech I'm sure but do not rotate the engine against it's direction of travel and turn it over by the crank only to keep the belt under tension on the drive side, otherwise it can appear to be timed correctly when static but move out when it's cranked. Basic stuff which in sure you know but it's easy to overlook the simple things sometimes.

[The Hooded Claw]

UPDATE *******

Car STILL at Brian's & STILL NOT RUNNING!!!! .... We have tried EVERYTHING & THEN SOME FIP Timing is Correct...... Engine Timing is Correct....

But the Bastid WILL NOT START!!!.......

It Drove into Bri's OK he/they replaced the Bottom Pulley.... Fitted the New ABS Unit...

& .....................NOTHING!!!!... this is starting to get a tad TEDIOUS now!!!!!

[SonyVaio]

Keith,

Did you give the crank sensor a look or even a wiggle?

I take it you have also checked to see you are getting fuel and a spark? Simple things can often get overlooked when looking for something a little more in depth.

If your happy with everything else and still no joy the last thing to try would be to disconnect the battery and allow full power drain from car systems (30min - 3hrs??) re-attach battery and try again. Sometimes I just turn if off and on again?

Don't think anyone is going to be able to come up with any more than you and Bri?

:star-wars-smiley-01

[david philips]

if it was me now i would be getting into it in a big way, i would set the timeing back to the tooth out where it dit run, turn the engine over a few times by hand slowly to make sure nothing was goeing to go bang,then try and start.if no go then check for fuel at injectors i know this means new seals but check if theres fuel then a compression check,this engine needs 3 thiings to go ,compression , fuel and timeing,if getting no where with timeing then check the others if compression and fuel are ok then it has to be timeing marks or pump timeing.good luck and if you get this sorted it will feel like another christmas present.:car:

[migrator]

Is this one of those engines where the set-up is only correct every second revolution of the engine? Everything looks good but the engine needs a further complete turn? Even with the timing marks correctly lined up the fuel pump needs to stay where it is set but the engine needs one more turn to TDC.

[The Hooded Claw]

Is this one of those engines where the set-up is only correct every second revolution of the engine? Everything looks good but the engine needs a further complete turn? Even with the timing marks correctly lined up the fuel pump needs to stay where it is set but the engine needs one more turn to TDC.

Yean Ian Spot on, it IS that Engine .... Every SECOND rev it hits TDC

TBH Lads i've reached the point now where I couldn't give a STUFF about it Marie is bad with her Emphysema this morning (I just sent her back to bed) I've got things to do round the house & look after her ... so the S80 (At this moment in time) IS NOT high on my list of Priorities.......

Its at Brian's & Brian has his Guys "On the Case" so what will be, WILL BE when its sorted I'll post up EXACTLY what was the Cause of all the Problems.

Think you HAVE TO "prioritize" things in yer life & Marie is my main concern ATM, even if I went up to Bri's to sort it My Mind wouldn't be on it & i'd more than likely make the Fooker even worse!!!!


Keith

[christheancient]

Keith.

Look after that lovely lady. She's the most important part of your life.