MY04 D5 losing coolant

[ales]

Hello, all

I could use some ideas on a problem (yet another one) I've started having with my 2003 (MY04) V70 D5 recently.

Basically it's losing coolant. The problem is, no matter how much my local Volvo specialist, the guy I have immense trust in when it comes to these cars, tried, he hasn't been able to find where it's leaking. Everything seems nice and dry in the engine bay/under the car, and the same goes for the interior. All radiators, hoses, etc have been checked and nothing has been found. The carpets are dry.

A couple of things that could be relevant. The cylinder head has been repaired at some point. Also the car comes equipped with the factory auxilary heater (the one that burns fuel) and it *seems* that the problem started appearing when the weather became colder and I started using the said heater on a timer.

The mechanic tends to think that there is an internal leak in the cylinder head even though there's no unusual white smoke coming out of the exhaust.

I tried not using the additional heater for a couple of weeks (cold!!!) and the coolant level did seem to be fine. Then for a couple of days I started using it again and on Friday the "coolant level low" warning came on. The problem with this is that during the couple of days that the car was with the mechanic he had tried everything (engine and heater running, etc) and there was just nothing dripping on the floor. I've now topped it off and will see how quickly it reappears.

Anyway, I really don't want this to be the head because it's nigh on impossible to find a repleacement head in good condition for reasonable money and buying a complete engine is expensive. Have any of you had a similar experience? All thoughts and ideas are very much welcome.

Thanks,
Alex

[chiptivo]

I don't know what your issue may be... But I am jealous that you have one of these AUX heaters... :(

[ales]

I don't know what your issue may be... But I am jealous that you have one of these AUX heaters... :(

LOL! :)

That's one of the main reasons I bought this car in June last year.

So new brakes, turbo, driveshaft, MAF sensor, handbrakes, battery, glow plugs and loads of other stuff later I'm so happy I have that AUX heater that is probably causing the car to lose coolant :( I do still like it in a masochistic kind of way :D

You can, in fact, install an additional fuel-driven heater on your car - either the factory Volvo one or something like Webasto. Electric Defa ones are also available and are probably cheaper. It is nice to sit into a warm car in the morning when it's -20C outside :)

[Bernard333]

I agree would love to have a factory fitted engine heater , I cannot remember ever seeing a used V70 for sale in the UK with one fitted . Mine is a 2003 V70 D5 ( MY2004 ) so very similar to yours and have had the same issue for at least three years . I top the coolant up every two or three weeks and keep a litre bottle in the car , it would lose about half a litre every week all year round . I have no idea where its going and have checked everything , I dont think my cylinder head is faulty as the car performs ok and there is no oil in the coolant , you would think with such a big leak that the source would be visible but its not . I am concerned about the leak but I am not spending more time searching for it as it is not getting worse .

[chiptivo]

The O rings of the pipes going into the cabin heater matrix perish...
Check by seeing if the passenger footwell is wet, close to the centre console?

[ales]

I agree would love to have a factory fitted engine heater , I cannot remember ever seeing a used V70 for sale in the UK with one fitted . Mine is a 2003 V70 D5 ( MY2004 ) so very similar to yours and have had the same issue for at least three years . I top the coolant up every two or three weeks and keep a litre bottle in the car , it would lose about half a litre every week all year round . I have no idea where its going and have checked everything , I dont think my cylinder head is faulty as the car performs ok and there is no oil in the coolant , you would think with such a big leak that the source would be visible but its not . I am concerned about the leak but I am not spending more time searching for it as it is not getting worse .

Ouch! Adding coolant to the engine every couple of weeks for three years? That must be annoying beyond belief and you must be a very patient person.

The crack in the cylinder head can be between the cooling circuit and the combustion chamber so there'd be no oil in the coolant. Normally you'd see white smoke from the exhaust and the cooling system would be under more pressure than normal but in my case I observe neither of those. Hope you do get your sorted ... hope I get mine sorted too :)

The O rings of the pipes going into the cabin heater matrix perish...
Check by seeing if the passenger footwell is wet, close to the centre console?

Yeah, that's what I've heard but the mechanic assures me it's all dry and there is no evidence of leaking from the heater matrix. I haven't noticed anything on the carpets either but I'll check again. By passenger footwell do you mean the left side of the cabin? :)

[carl4u44]

Why don't you get a UV dye detection kit and put it into the system?

[ales]

Why don't you get a UV dye detection kit and put it into the system?

Because I'd never thought the option existed for automotive applications. Thank you for the idea, I'll suggest that to the mechanic and we'll see what we can find here locally.

Added coolant on Sunday morning, used the aux heater three times and this morning on the way to work the warning came on again.

[Brendan W]

So the heater warms you twice. Once sitting in the car and twice running around for coolant. A colleague claimed to be able to keep the wife warm for the whole winter with one bag of coal by making her carry it up and down the stairs when she felt chilly.
Has to be the heater plumbing. How do they work ? anybody got a schematic?

[Thassos]

There is some sort of 'sniffer' test that you can do on the coolant to see if its the head gasket thats causing the problem (its some kind of liquid that changes colour when the prescence of exhaust gas traces are found in the coolant?).

Although this isnt as good as fixing the source of the leak, have you considered adding a stop-leak additive, such as wynns do or many other companies?. (Some links below) I recently had a car with similar leaking of coolant (i think actually from a worn water pump) that was drinking a litre of coolant a week but was hard to see from where, and this additive has cured the problem.

http://www.wynns.be/Product.aspx?p=45644&g=GRP_PRO_COOL

K-Seal
http://www.kalimex.co.uk/

[Brendan W]

Does the heater have a separate exhaust and has the mechanic checked this for water/ coolant ?

[carl4u44]

You can get the uv kit yourself off eBay for about 15 quid. Do it yourself. A little obvious but have you checked around the water pump area too?

[Simon Jones]

If you haven't already, check the radiator where the end caps are crimped on to the core section. They often leak around that joint, but the UV dye will help identify if it's a leak or coolant being lost internally.

[ales]

Thanks for all the replies, guys!

All radiators, hoses, etc have been checked.

The heater does have a separate exhaust at the front of the car and I was there when we ran the heater with the car on the lift - saw absolutely nothing out of the ordinary.

Here's a bit of information on the heater
http://accessories.volvocars.com/AccessoriesWeb/Accessories.mvc/en-GB/EE/V70%2800-08%29/2004/D5/Manual/L.H.D/ShowDocument/VCC-425319

http://accessories.volvocars.com/AccessoriesWeb/Accessories.mvc/en-GB/EE/V70%2800-08%29/2004/D5/Manual/L.H.D/ShowDocument/VCC-425320

Unfortunately no diagrams but they are included in VADIS.

Checked the water pump and it is damp BUT just when we thought we found the source of trouble we only discovered another issue. When I kept the car at 3000 rpm it became apparent that the liquid on the water pump is bloody oil seeping from under the head - whoever had worked on the car previously installed the head using a lot of sealant instead of proper gaskets. It tasted like oil too :)

I don't want to go with the stop-leak additive just yet, this is not a proper solution and I'm not that desperate just yet. Not ruling it out, though ... sigh.

I'm liking the UV test idea more and more, I was just hoping to find a local shop to do this for me so that I wouldn't have to wait for the kit to arrive from ebay :)

Thanks again, all help is really appreciated.

[Brendan W]

That's quite a powerful heater. By my calculations, starting at 87degC, it's capable of vapourising 120cc of pure water a minute and probably lot more than that of the coolant mix because of it's lower heat of vapourisation. There may not have been water dripping from the heater exhaust but could it be disappearing as a vapour?

[ales]

That's quite a powerful heater. By my calculations, starting at 87degC, it's capable of vapourising 120cc of pure water a minute and probably lot more than that of the coolant mix because of it's lower heat of vapourisation. There may not have been water dripping from the heater exhaust but could it be disappearing as a vapour?

Possible but a bit hard to tell just by looking at it. There definitely wasn't pure steam coming out of the exhasust.

The UV dye should show that actually, if I'm correct. Going to order this one (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UV-Dye-UV-Torch-Kit-Leak-Detection-Dye-Cooling-Antifreeze-System-RLD2-Ring-/230723938073?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35b837e719).

[Brendan W]

Don't forget this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMBRE-SOLAIRE-UV-SENSITIVE-SUN-LOTION-SPRAY-200ml-SPF40-/330311344107?pt=UK_Health_Tanning_RL&hash=item4ce8171feb

[ales]

I won't :)

Attached are a couple of pictures - one taken in the evening when I parked the car and one in the morning after the heater had done it's thing. The pinkish traces are coolant (I use the long-life type as it was in the car when I bought it), so it's thankfully looking like it's not the head. It's in the opposite corner to the heater, though, and even with the heater exhaust sort of directed that way, I don't think it's coming from there directly, so I hope the UV kit arrives soon.

Hadn't noticed any puddles there before but now feel a bit silly since I must have just missed them.

[Brendan W]

Long life pink? I'm on original Volvo blue and it's been in there 9 years.
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=134427
just throwing a spanner in the works

[ales]

Thanks for the heads-up.

It's long-life orange I guess.

I am actually planning to replace the coolant as soon as I stop losing it and I'll use the recommended type.

[Puffster]

My first post though I am a longterm Volvo XC70 D5 owner!

I too lose coolant at an alarming rate, with no obvious cause. Essentially, I can fill up the expansion chamber to the correct level with the engine running, put the cap back on, drive 100 miles at motorway speeds and when I come to the end of the journey and go slowly again (town or traffic etc) coolant light comes on.

I can open the cap and release the pressure and sometimes the water level is there and sometimes not. At the moment, I am doing about 1 litre every 50 miles or so.

My car has done 220,000 miles and I've owned it from new (Nov 2004) and service schedules religiously followed until about 200k came up and I stopped doing high mileage regularly.

In looking at this problem, I have had a new radiator, new thermostat, new water pump, pressure test, uv test, water vapour test and virutally every other test I could have on the cooling system. There are no visible leaks behind the engine crank cover (where it mates with g/box) or any water in the oil (or oil in the water) or any other obvious leaks or water where it should not be.

Sometimes when driving along at a steady pace, say 60mph, the low coolant light will come on. If I stay at that pace, it will stay on but sometimes will go out after a few miles. As soon as I apply pressure to the throttle and apply load to the engine, the light will go out. What I think is happening is that under load, the water is being forced out of the expansion tank by high pressure (as evidenced by rusty water splashes around that area).

Water temperature is constant and does not fluctuate, even when coolant light is on for a while.

The question is, what is making that build up of pressure.

It "might" be a faulty thermostat (my, aren't they expensive!) which would be unlucky seeing as how I had had it replaced. However, in speaking to a breaker who is knowledgeable in engine (D5) failures, it could be one of the following:

1) Head gasket
2) Cracked head
3) Cracked liners
4) Cracked crank casing (which is why you might find water between g/box housing and engine)

Whatever it is is adding pressure to the system, particularly under load and causing the water to be pushed out.

Another candidate is water pump but I'm not confident on that as an option.

At this time, I will change the thermostat but if that does not fix it, then I will replace the engine with one from a breaker/recon. Probably won't hurt as the engine is such high mileage and the rest of the car is ok.

[ales]

Wow, sorry to hear that. So all those checks and tests have not shown anything?

My case is a bit different - when the coolant level drops beyond a certain point, the warning comes on at higher revs and goes out at lower ones. After a while it would just stay on until you add coolant.

The cooling system is normally pressurized but if you feel that the pressure is too high then, and I'm sorry to say that, my first guess would be combustion gasses getting into the cooling system somewhere, most likely the cylinder head.

[Puffster]

It's back at the garage (independant) today. We took the top hose off and looking at the thermostat, it was more or less closed at around operating temp whereas mech thought it should be open more. In addition, by accelerating the car, he expected water to come out and circulate through the top hose and into the rad. So he is investigating the thermostat and water pump. If no joy, then we're going to replace the engine.

[chiptivo]

It's back at the garage (independant) today. We took the top hose off and looking at the thermostat, it was more or less closed at around operating temp whereas mech thought it should be open more. In addition, by accelerating the car, he expected water to come out and circulate through the top hose and into the rad. So he is investigating the thermostat and water pump. If no joy, then we're going to replace the engine.

A little drastic??

[richardatlasman]

Hi Guys,
have read all the above threads and mine is the same. Only done 73k, runs like clockwork no smoke, oil in water or vica versa, no leaks or drips anywhere to be seen, but using about 1 litre of coolant every 500 miles or so. Under acceleration there is a faint radiatory whiff coming through the vents but floors are all dry. Totally baffled!! Any further suggestions???
Cheers

[chiptivo]

Quick bump.

Ever since I damaged and replaced my D5 2004 S60 radiator about 9 months ago I am loosing a little coolant.

Basically about a mug full every 3 months.

It is really odd, but I did see a little pool of coolant dripping off my skid plate the other day.

I can not see any leaks at all, and all looks great.

As it was a second hand radiator I brought on ebay, I am thinking it may have a little leak???

Would rad weld or any thing like that seal it up???

Or should I not worry and just top it up from time to time??

[kdst5]

Most likely where the plastic ends meet the metal core. Mine had been doing it for about 5 years until last month when it was constantly dripping.

[chiptivo]

Most likely where the plastic ends meet the metal core. Mine had been doing it for about 5 years until last month when it was constantly dripping.

Do you think some rad weld may sort it, or is this stuff a NO NO??

[BarryCambs]

My first post though I am a longterm Volvo XC70 D5 owner!

I too lose coolant at an alarming rate, with no obvious cause. Essentially, I can fill up the expansion chamber to the correct level with the engine running, put the cap back on, drive 100 miles at motorway speeds and when I come to the end of the journey and go slowly again (town or traffic etc) coolant light comes on.

I can open the cap and release the pressure and sometimes the water level is there and sometimes not. At the moment, I am doing about 1 litre every 50 miles or so.

My car has done 220,000 miles and I've owned it from new (Nov 2004) and service schedules religiously followed until about 200k came up and I stopped doing high mileage regularly.

In looking at this problem, I have had a new radiator, new thermostat, new water pump, pressure test, uv test, water vapour test and virutally every other test I could have on the cooling system. There are no visible leaks behind the engine crank cover (where it mates with g/box) or any water in the oil (or oil in the water) or any other obvious leaks or water where it should not be.

Sometimes when driving along at a steady pace, say 60mph, the low coolant light will come on. If I stay at that pace, it will stay on but sometimes will go out after a few miles. As soon as I apply pressure to the throttle and apply load to the engine, the light will go out. What I think is happening is that under load, the water is being forced out of the expansion tank by high pressure (as evidenced by rusty water splashes around that area).

Water temperature is constant and does not fluctuate, even when coolant light is on for a while.

The question is, what is making that build up of pressure.

It "might" be a faulty thermostat (my, aren't they expensive!) which would be unlucky seeing as how I had had it replaced. However, in speaking to a breaker who is knowledgeable in engine (D5) failures, it could be one of the following:

1) Head gasket
2) Cracked head
3) Cracked liners
4) Cracked crank casing (which is why you might find water between g/box housing and engine)

Whatever it is is adding pressure to the system, particularly under load and causing the water to be pushed out.

Another candidate is water pump but I'm not confident on that as an option.

At this time, I will change the thermostat but if that does not fix it, then I will replace the engine with one from a breaker/recon. Probably won't hurt as the engine is such high mileage and the rest of the car is ok.

I'm having exactly the same symptoms, but with a 2002 petrol 2.4T. I'd thought about head gasket, although there is no sign of steam in the exhaust when starting from cold and it fires up from cold with no hesitation or misfire.

What is confusing me is that if you check the water when the car has been stood for a couple of days, there's still pressure in the system, so I can't understand how it can be losing water but holding pressure at the same time! I'm changing the rad cap today as a first step, in case this is causing some strange pressure related problem.

[kdst5]

I could not find the problem for quite some time however I managed to find it when I saw a small amount of water on the ground one hot day. Took the bottom cover off and there was a small drip between the plastic end caps and the metal core.

In my case it would only happen a few times a year and only when cooling down. When up to operating temp and completely cold there was no problem.

I am guessing that there is an o-ring between the plastic end caps and the metal core and due to the different expansion properties it can sometimes leak. Mine finally failed about a month ago (I.E. just constantly dipping water both when hot and cold) and I replaced the radiator.

I guess the reason for the plastic end caps is they use one metal core across a range of cars but use different end caps to fit the different hose placements.

I have to say I have never liked the idea of using rad weld but others may disagree.

[BarryCambs]

It now seems there's no ongoing loss of coolent, but it seems to find a natural level right on the minimum level. If I top up, it just drops back to this level and the warning comes on and off all the time.

Luckily, the DIM has now failed, so maybe the problem of the warnings are solved!

[swedecar]

Most likely where the plastic ends meet the metal core. Mine had been doing it for about 5 years until last month when it was constantly dripping.

Gents

I seem to have the same problem and i believe my volvo mechanic suggested the same.........leaks where the plastic meets the metal core.

How many hours would you expect it takes to fix this? I assume parts are cheap.

Thanks

[kdst5]

There is nothing particularly difficult to do this but it is very tight fit. I dropped mine down and out and had a second pair of hands to help. If I was going to do it again I think I might take the bumper off as I think it might be quicker and easier. It took me an afternoon.

[Stevepvolvo]

Gents

I seem to have the same problem and i believe my volvo mechanic suggested the same.........leaks where the plastic meets the metal core.

How many hours would you expect it takes to fix this? I assume parts are cheap.

Thanks

Had the same issue with a 2003 D5 and eventually after some months and all the dealer tests it happened overnight and I caught the drip trail on camera - it was appearning at the centre rear of the front skid pan. Dealer then discovered that it was the join between the rubber hose and a metal hose at the rear of the engine. Cost £400 due to the difficult location plus the replacement parts but that cured it finally.