Girly question time about Cars

[charlotte001]

I need to uprate my brakes because I drive on hand controls the dynamics are different to foot operated (won't bore you with the science) so I burn pads out and discs like there is no tomorrow (roughly two sets a year yes year) it's basically after a couple of hours the brakes go all nice and no where (bit like the Jaguar XJS V12) they fade in and out to nothing making stopping really interesting ABS is even more fun

Now I need to seriously uprate them looked at EBC spoke to EBC Tech decided nope they're not good enough. So don't really think I neet to go to Tarox SP or AP, also don't want to do the boy racer (or girl racer and stick huge Brembo oversized) although brembo are a choice.

If anyone technical or just anyone who knows about brakes can suggest where I first look I'd appreciate it

My car is a 1990 V6 765 Estate with no nivomat suspension and it's auto.

Charlotte

[pookie]

I think that the fact you are using hand controls is a bit of a red herring, you need a certain amount of braking effort to slow and stop a car, and it does'nt really matter how that effort is applied, either by hand or foot the end result is the same. How many miles are you doing to wear out a set of discs? How many sets of pads does it take to wear out a pair of discs? With regard to brake fade is the fluid O.K. ?

Pookie

[anth001]

howdo,

brembo are good to a point....but their prone to massive fade...

i'm try tarox pads...with standard disks....or ferodo...this should be ample.

cheers

Anth

[ChrisGrant]

Of course i don't know how the hand controls work but the wear rate should be the same. are you sure that the hand controls are completly releasing the brakes when your not telling them to 'brake' might be worth a check! if this is so you will be going though alot of petrol as well!!!!

[charlotte001]

I'm doing in excess of 40,000 a year sometimes as much as 75,000

Hand controls put somewhere in the region of 3-5 times the amount of brake force than the foot, less you are extremely heavy footed. No the brakes are releasing off. It's not the fluid it's the pads (Ferodo were very kind in discussing this with me after I went through a set of their pads in two months) it goes something like when the brakes start to fade it's gasses between the pad and disc on occasions this gas can start to cool moving into the pad causing it to become softer than normal.

Didn't know Brembo suffered brake fade. Not going through any more petrol than normal it's purely the excess pressure applied to the braking system. Looking at Black diamond Drilled and Slotted

The concerning thing is I had a set of seriously cheap pads on a previous car (think they cost £6.40) these were great they lasted ages with no fade just excessive wear on the discs.

If anyone has any other ideas let me know please

Charlotte

[warthog]

Charlotte,

How many miles per year???? You must live in your car! I have to agree with a previous post - hand controls make no difference to brake wear - only driving style and mileage for any given pad/disc combination will affect wear rate. I've been using hand controls for over 20 years in a range of vehicles (I don't think anyone who drives with me could accuse me of driving slowly :wink_smile:) and get normal life expectancy out of pads and discs. You should be able to get more subtle control of the brake and throttle with hand controls compared to foot operation depending, of course, on your level of muscle control in your hands and fingers.

I expect around 25k out of front pads (2 sets of front tyres) - this set of pads have been on for 23k and still has probably 5-7k left. Rears were changed after 30k from owning the car. On the next front pad change I'll probably have to renew discs due to wear (not scoring) as I've already ground the outer lip of them once before.

Some Volvo's are seriously underbraked and therefore benefit from an upgrade T5's and R's being two examples if you are going to drive them hard (or normally in some peoples opinion!).

[pookie]

So are you changing discs and pads every 20k, 30k,or what? I'm a professional motor engineer ( 40 years now ) by trade and I find the explanation by ferodo a little curious. Also whose hand controls do you use ?
Is there a direct connection via a metal rod from the hand control to the brake pedal.

Cheers
Pookie

[charlotte001]

I've used Jeff Gosling, my own, a few american ones, one set of custom made ones and they all do the same burn discs and pads it doesn't matter what car it is from a Vauxhall Corsa to a Range Rover same thing in around the same time scale.

The explanation was a brief one and not the full text from Ferodo as it would have taken too long to post it all. There is direct contact with the brake pedal, they are the push-pull ones as apposed to the individual rods for brake/accelerator (found those lethal) everything is correctly bolted onto the the pedals in accordance with fitting from suppliers) Yes I'm changing every 20-30k which is why I'm thinking about going up the scale. As a motor engineer you probably will agree if the quality and grade goes up the longevity should increase too. I've found some Black Diamond Discs and pads although for a full car it's only £330

Charlotte

[VolvoPassion]

Get a lighter car, my old 765GLE used to enjoy eating brake pads/disks
My sister has recently become spinally injured and I was looking at getting her a V40 1.8/2.0 as she needs a big car but a light one and the v40 has a kerb weight of about 1300kg
Do you have any tips for her?
Thanks, Ben

[Simon Linton]

I realise you don't want to go to great expense, but the larger disc size of the AP kit does mean that you get more braking for less pad pressure.

It's simply a matter of moment arm - the closer the pads are to the rim, the greater their effect for a given pressure.

The serious downside is that big brakes demand big wheels which demand big money!

The suggestion about a lighter car sounds good; it can come with big wheels "thrown in" if you go for a T5 or T4 (or better still a T5-R) and the car would cost £3-5000 depending on model (R saloons are cheap as chips and lighter than the 700).

Modifying a car is very expensive (I know) but buying a ready-modified car is incredibly cheap.

[foggyjames]

If you want to go to town, 'R' brakes from the new S60R/V70R can be fitted to 2/7/900 series cars, but it's a bit of a specialist job. Guidance is available though! :D

cheers

James

[charlotte001]

Uprating the brakes on my 760 is a good idea but AP Brake kits also Brembo are insanely expensive (£1500) that's more than it needs.

I'm fitting Black Diamond slotted and drilled a complete set £322 delivered

Charlotte

Although if anyone has a T5 R spec to get rid of let me know or if you have a set of brakes for it then let me know.

[foggyjames]

R brakes are bigger than APs (IIRC), and cheaper, if you want to go for bigger brakes. I know of a set available for ~£500, although fitting might be as much again, if you get a garage to do it.

cheers

James

[charlotte001]

Don't need a garage to fit it I'm C&G 383 qualified. I don't like electrics or timing otherwise if it's fittable I can fit it.

speciality is engines.


Charlotte

[foggyjames]

Cool - we need a few more spanner-capable girls in the Turbobricks crowd!

cheers

James