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View Full Version : Engine: TDI: - 1999 V70 2.5D D5252t unbelievably slow


ttocsc
Sep 28th, 2017, 14:52
Hi, newbie here - been lurking a while but now require the help of you V70 gurus. I inherited a 1999 example, a D5252T with 247,000 miles. It ticks over smoothly and sounds just fine through the revs, but it's just slow as all hell. My top speed is 85mph in 4th, and it won't maintain that in 5th. 0-60 takes 22s.

I occasionally drive a VW LT35 van with the same engine, albeit detuned, and the van seems a ton faster. There is noticeable turbo lag before 2,000rpm but after it's started blowing the thing pulls strongly and will happily sit at 100mph on the motorway, uphill and all.

The Volvo, on the other hand, doesn't have that turbo sensation, it just seems to pull sluggishly from idle all the way to the governer flatly and without any boost. It really struggles to get up to motorway speeds, and needs a ton of throttle to stay there.

The previous owner had deleted the valve-type thing that's clipped on next to the MAF (boost control valve..?) - the one with 3 pipe connectors attached to the inlet hose, the wastegate and what I assume is a vacuum line - by simply joining the hose from the inlet manifold to the one going to the turbo wastegate. Reconnecting the valve thing doesn't seem to make any difference.

When you squeeze the inlet hose and get someone to rev to 3000rpm the hose inflates, so there is some boost pressure, just apparently nowhere near enough.

Having read the posts here about similar problems I've had the injection pump timing checked (-3 degrees), replaced my MAF sensor with a brand new Bosch one, deleted my EGR and checked the cat for blockage and everything looks fine. Suspect the turbo must be wrongly plumbed but everything looks fine from the top. Service light comes and goes intermittently but according to Delphi diagnostic software the only code is glowplug-related. Anyone got any ideas as to where I should start?

TIA

doingitsideways
Sep 28th, 2017, 15:30
You really need it plugging into Vida for a proper diagnosis.

Does the Lambda light (green triangle on an amber background) come on with ignition and go off with engine start? That's your malfunction lamp.
If it doesn't come on at all the bulb has gone. Any odd gaps in your ignition lights on the RH side?

Something is very wrong though as mine went like stink even when standard with over 300k on the clock

Is the vacuum block for the EGR still plugged in?
If not, it's probably in limp mode.

doingitsideways
Sep 28th, 2017, 15:32
Could really do with a picture of the block you're referring toas there's one which controls boost and one the EGR.

Give us a pic of your ignition lights while you're at it :thumbs_up:

ttocsc
Sep 28th, 2017, 15:51
Could really do with a picture of the block you're referring toas there's one which controls boost and one the EGR.

Give us a pic of your ignition lights while you're at it

Thanks for such a prompt reply; I'll get those after I'm finished work this evening. I haven't seen any warning lights except the orange one which says SERVICE but as you say the bulb may be gone.

doingitsideways
Sep 28th, 2017, 16:02
No worries, just happened to be online at the time.

Mine is an 850, so runs the older management, but I think the light is the same.
See second from right, next to the service light

martin_r_smith
Sep 28th, 2017, 19:48
Check the pipe on the other end if the inlet manifold, it goes to the map sensor. Look for holes /splits and also the sensor itself.

You don't want to have the pipe going straight from the boost pipe to the actuator that is a recipe for disaster.

warninglight
Sep 28th, 2017, 22:26
How have you checked the cat for flow?

I had similar symptoms a couple of years ago with my Disco TD5. Went through wastegate actuator, MAF, EGR, boost hoses, intercooler etc. and finally found that if I dropped the downpipe off the exhaust manifold and took it for a drive, it went like stink. No errors showing up, it just couldn't get the gas through a clogged cat element. Bashed them out and it was back to perfection.

PNuT
Sep 29th, 2017, 04:57
Mine is an 850, so runs the older management,

99 could still be 15.7....

I have come across both :)

PNuT
Sep 29th, 2017, 05:02
Deleted EGR

It does sound like it is in limp mode but never tried deleting my later engines but have heard they dont like the delete

Richard_TD
Sep 29th, 2017, 06:53
No worries, just happened to be online at the time.

Mine is an 850, so runs the older management, but I think the light is the same.
See second from right, next to the service light

If it's the newer management it's a different light, that's how you know which system you have. 15.8 has a picture of an engine, in the same position. If it's not lighting at all you should be able to find out which kind you have by shining a torch into the dash.

We had a 99/2000 model that was similarly sluggish. It had no power supply to the MAF or TC control valve. A couple of wires jumped in and full performance was restored. The previous owner had removed the bulb from the fault light.

The SERVICE light just means it's more than 10000 miles since it was reset. It's supposed to be reset after a service, but not everybody can do that.

I have VIDA ("engine" light) and VOL FCR (Lambda light) available if you fancy bringing the car over to Fife one evening or over the weekend.

ttocsc
Sep 29th, 2017, 20:29
Thanks everyone. I checked the cat for blockage the same way you did on your Disco - a lot more noise but no more speed.

Mine seems to have an light which is a picture of an engine that doesn't illuminate when ignition is turned on, will need to get that changed. Will go have a poke around the sensor connectors with a multimeter and see whether the sensors are getting voltage.

I may take you up on your offer of reading the codes. Will return later as I need to go help a friend with a misbehaving Saab.

Thanks again for all your help, guys.

V70Zig
Oct 1st, 2017, 07:55
Blanking or plugging the EGR on 15.8 management system will cause the engine light to come on, so people tend to remove the bulb !! The car will run fine after but.........if you have another issue the light won't come on.
You can reach up from the drivers side to reach it...my bet is it's been removed so pop out the service one and move it along, unless you have a spare to hand.

A trip to see Richard TD for a code read would be a good idea.:thumbs_up:

ttocsc
Oct 2nd, 2017, 18:27
Okay, I've deduced mine has the 15.8 engine management. The (blown) bulb has a picture of an engine and I have already tried the Vol-FCR software with a Chinese OBD adapter to no avail.

This thing (http://www.swedishautoparts.com/catimages/Volvo-Boost-Pressure-Solenoid-Valve-9155936-AFT.jpg?mt=1349113120) is the one which was bypassed. I have plugged both hoses back in to where they should be, as far as I can tell, and it has made no difference at all.

Having done a bit more observation on a long run over the weekend I notice the car is just as fast at tiny throttle inputs as at full throttle - I only need to touch the pedal to get it to accelerate at the same rate as full throttle does. Dropping the pedal all the way just seems to make the engine sound like it's trying harder, if that makes sense.

As is probably evident from my posts, this is the first diesel car I've ever worked on myself, all of mine until the Volvo have been petrol so please forgive me if I'm using the wrong terminology.

I have VIDA ("engine" light) and VOL FCR (Lambda light) available if you fancy bringing the car over to Fife one evening or over the weekend.

I have tried to PM you but this forum does not permit new users to send PMs; not sure if you can message me first and I can reply.

martin_r_smith
Oct 2nd, 2017, 18:38
Have you tried my original suggestion?

ttocsc
Oct 2nd, 2017, 19:00
Have you tried my original suggestion?

I've checked all the hoses I can see from the top, but I've had trouble checking the one which goes out of the turbo and round the bottom of engine into the intercooler. There are no untoward whooshes when the turbo spools so I think it's okay, but I will have access to a ramp later this week so I can be absolutely sure.

V70Zig
Oct 2nd, 2017, 19:00
Vol-FCR won't work you need Vida Dice to read it......as Martin says have you checked the pipe LHS of the manifold ? (as you look from the front). It goes to the MAP sensor which is located at the top LHS below the windscreen (in the engine bay), hope you get my drift. When mine split it would boost once but not again till I restarted.

There is a way to increase your post count......can't remember where....so try the search function where ever that is.............

Richard_TD
Oct 2nd, 2017, 20:39
I've sent a PM with my email address.

Richard_TD
Oct 4th, 2017, 21:58
VIDA gave us three fault codes- one for the TC Control Valve, one for the EGR and one for the glow plugs. I clicked through from the TC Control Valve and it suggested checking fuse (IIRC) 5, which turned out to be blown. I think that fuse also covers the other two things that had codes.

I plugged in a new fuse and immediately a component just before the turbo started smoking. It didn't blow the fuse, although it's just occurred to me that I replaced the fuse like for like without checking if the blown one was correct.

I'm sure ttocsc will post a picture of the smoking component when he gets home, I'm not sure what it's called and I couldn't find it on any of the parts diagrams.

ttocsc
Oct 5th, 2017, 10:23
Enormous thanks to Richard for taking time out of his evening to help me out - took him 20 minutes to find a fault which has been stumping me for weeks - can't believe I didn't check my fuses first.

Neither of us had any idea what the component which was smoking when we replaced the fuse is, but I'm hoping someone here can shed some light. The connector has two pins.

https://i.imgur.com/lBHYrZt.jpg?1

From another angle with artists impression of where the smoke was coming from.

https://i.imgur.com/tqZ7M3q.jpg?1

I replaced the fuse when I got home to observe whether that component was in fact supposed to get hot and was just burning off the layer of oil that had formed on it, but it blew another fuse. The sticker on the fuse box lid states it should be a 15A.

V70Zig
Oct 5th, 2017, 17:04
If I'm not mistaken I think that is your TVC (turbo control valve) and the solenoid has gone tit's up, hence the smoke or the wires have been chaffed and it's grounding to earth somewhere.......and if that is the case then it's probably toasted the solenoid. So check your wiring before you fit another :thumbs_up:

ttocsc
Oct 5th, 2017, 18:22
If I'm not mistaken I think that is your TVC (turbo control valve) and the solenoid has gone tit's up, hence the smoke or the wires have been chaffed and it's grounding to earth somewhere.......and if that is the case then it's probably toasted the solenoid. So check your wiring before you fit another :thumbs_up:

Cheers, you wouldn't happen to know a part number or the part name by which Volvo refer to the control valve? I'm really struggling to find the part for sale, no record of it in the VIDA diagrams and no breakers nearby me have another car with a D5252T. Doesn't have any external markings that I can see.

V70Zig
Oct 5th, 2017, 19:17
Cheers, you wouldn't happen to know a part number or the part name by which Volvo refer to the control valve? I'm really struggling to find the part for sale, no record of it in the VIDA diagrams and no breakers nearby me have another car with a D5252T. Doesn't have any external markings that I can see.

Ha ha...my bad... got my V and C the wrong way round. I have just had a quick look on Vida and although I can find it on a diagram I can't find a part number for it. Vida is the dogs, so long as you know how to use it properly. Lots of sub categories etc.....
If I were you I'd give FRF in Swansea a call (under Traders Offers and Discounts ....at the top) and they might be able to help you.....and maybe even give you the part number...............
Failing that I'll have another look on Vida at the weekend.

martin_r_smith
Oct 5th, 2017, 19:42
That is the PTC valve (NOT TCV!!), it's there to heat the incoming fumes from the rocker cover breather to keep them liquid enough in cold weather to pass through the engine and get combusted. Completely useless in the country really, just unplug it. It shouldn't through a codewith it unplugged.

Richard_TD
Oct 5th, 2017, 20:18
Is it just smoking because it's covered in crap from when it wasn't working?

ttocsc
Oct 6th, 2017, 09:38
Unplugged cable to the PTC valve and replaced fuse but the replacement just blew straight away. Reckon I'm looking for a short to ground somewhere between that fuse and one of its components. Are there any common places for wires to chafe on these?

V70Zig
Oct 6th, 2017, 16:29
If I'm not mistaken I think that is your TVC (turbo control valve) and the solenoid has gone tit's up, hence the smoke or the wires have been chaffed and it's grounding to earth somewhere.......and if that is the case then it's probably toasted the solenoid. So check your wiring before you fit another :thumbs_up:

Ha, I was mistaken...:hidesbehindsofa:...naughty boy.....but at least Martin put us straight...:thumbs_up:
Couple of questions......
What were the codes that Vida found....letters and numbers please.....
Which fuse is it.....number and location please.

ttocsc
Oct 6th, 2017, 16:57
Couple of questions......
What were the codes that Vida found....letters and numbers please.....
Which fuse is it.....number and location please.

I owe everyone in this thread a pint - you're all so helpful! :dude_hug:

Codes are as follows:


ECM-0017 Glow plug relay - Signal too low
ECM-001D Turbocharger (TC) control valve - Signal too low
ECM-001E EGR controller - Signal too low

It's fuse 5 - labelled 'GLOW PLUG RELAY, EMISSION SYSTEM'

https://i.imgur.com/LZ6si0oh.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/QzY1dMf.jpg?1

V70Zig
Oct 6th, 2017, 17:35
I owe everyone in this thread a pint - you're all so helpful!

I've already had more than one..........so unless someone comes on in the meantime with a fix, I'll check those codes out in the morning....cheers:beer_yum:

Ches is lurking, so I might be beaten to it..................and Martin might be on again later............

V70Zig
Oct 7th, 2017, 08:31
Had a gander at Vida and all 3 codes state that possible causes could be component failure or short to ground.
I would try removing the glow plug relay first and see if the fuse holds out.
Then if not unplug the TCV and the EGR controllers.
The TCV should be clipped onto the bracket left front of the fuse box and the EGR controller is under the lid.....see attached pic.

ttocsc
Oct 7th, 2017, 11:49
Colleague and I identified the cause of the repeatedly blowing fuse - the wires to that turbo preheat device thingy had rubbed together and shorted out. Downside being that seems to have happened inside a thick bit of the loom which is clipped on the side of the engine and disappears away under the injection pump. The spanners'll be coming out this afternoon so I can get into the loom. Will report back with results.

There's a component marked 8/28 on this diagram (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fv%2Ft34.0-12%2F22330944_438639799865598_1575477160_n.png%3Fo h%3D21f1b8ea8ad0b9f34703860293cb8291%26oe%3D59DB1B 05&h=ATNIGky_91Lu4wjExk36c4Ai8ENE17uU7p9-YArK-PmOOcRXkPEGGBW7aQ-Z1v9LycCc-ylArx7fQrO0v6jVevFpoa_RXxOGyzh9CbZuk1pfZQh0dEdIqNq pSo84KOpD8gqaxg) which I cannot identify. It isn't named on the diagram. It appears to have 3 pipe connectors and a 2-pin electrical connector. Wondering if it may be in some way related to the operation of the turbocharger since as far as I can see none of the other components behind fuse 5 should result in my symptoms. The TCV is receiving ~7V but I'm told it is pulse-width modulated and won't read battery voltage. Is that right?

V70Zig
Oct 7th, 2017, 12:42
I think that is the TVC, looks like this......

V70Zig
Oct 7th, 2017, 12:44
And the EGR controller......

V70Zig
Oct 7th, 2017, 13:14
Have a read here...https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=151558

PNuT
Oct 7th, 2017, 17:57
There's a component marked 8/28

8/28 is the turbo control valve.....

ttocsc
Oct 10th, 2017, 16:13
Good news! Turbo is back and the car is utterly transformed. As PNuT pointed out, the mystery component 8/28 behind that fuse is my turbo control valve. The preheat device had shorted and caused the wires' insulation to melt and short together all the way back to the junction where the preheat device is separated from the other components on that circuit. Hacked the loom apart, pulled the preheat thingy wire all the way through it and chopped it off at the junction.

Started her up, and she spat an almighty cloud of grey smoke - which indicated something was different. First few tries on the throttle didn't seem to be any different but after about 10 miles the turbo seemed to start boosting, but only at about 2750rpm. Took it on a drive up north at the weekend, ~300 miles revving hard to blow out the cobwebsand it just kept getting better and better. Smoke has calmed down a great deal and it'll do 125 (private motorway ofc). Full boost seems to come in about 2100rpm now. Will report back with continued driving as it still seems to have more to give.

Thanks everyone for their help and especially to Richard for the code read and hand troubleshooting. What a great forum this is.

Tuning box time, methinks!

doingitsideways
Oct 10th, 2017, 21:12
Glad you're sorted now.
Boost does come in a little late on these, so yours sounds about right there.

Once you're sure everything is as it should be, give Martin_r_smith on here a shout and talk to him about one of his remaps for these.
Infinitely better than a tuning box :thumbs_up:

Link to my little review (https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=272937)

Mine keeps up my T5 and V8 XC90 now :D

ttocsc
Oct 11th, 2017, 10:13
The saga may not be over - yesterday I contended with a particularly steep hill - the one which goes through Dunning up to Path of Condie for anyone local.

Coming up the hill in 2nd at about 30mph, probably 3-3500rpm. Put my foot down for a straight (still steep uphill) part and the car boosted for a split second and then just spluttered and acted as if I was trying to hustle it up there in 4th - needed to change down to 1st to get the rest of the way up. Once I got to the top a lack of boost was once again apparent. Turned ignition off and back on again and everything went back to normal. Since then it has been doing that every time I rev past about 3500rpm at full throttle. Have rechecked all my vac and boost hoses. Any ideas?

doingitsideways
Oct 11th, 2017, 13:24
Sounds like it's overboosting and going into limp mode. (It resets with ignition off)

Hasn't got a manual boost controller fitted has it?
Maybe see if you can plumb in a simple boost guage to see what's happening

martin_r_smith
Oct 11th, 2017, 13:49
What sideways said. Sounds like an overbooked situation. It has more than likely stored a fault code.

V70Zig
Oct 11th, 2017, 18:20
As Martin said in his first reply.......have you checked the hose that goes to the MAP sensor as mine would only boost once till I restarted.....then only boost once again. Remove the engine cover and at the left hand side of the manifold there is a pipe which goes to the MAP sensor......inspect it carefully...could also be the sensor though.
Once your up and running, and before you try a tuning box, try adding some 2 stroke oil, and ask Martin about the hammer Mod......but you will need Vida + a hammer for that....

Richard_TD
Oct 14th, 2017, 13:08
Feel free to come along for another session. If you do manage to install VIDA on a machine you're welcome to borrow my cable for a bit. It's only used to help out random people from the internet at the moment anyway.

I found the pictures I took when our V70 wasn't boosting.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8730/16688156618_1721da19c2_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7626/16348090264_e7665c105d_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7584/17003049236_e7fe31974b_b.jpg

Vida told me where to check for continuity on the ECU plug and I made it work by connecting a new cable near the two ends. The MAF wasn't getting power either, but I took the supply for that from another component nearby. That was all temporary wiring to see if it would work before doing something a bit more professional.