No Mount for Slave Cylinder? [Archive] - Volvo Owners Club Forum

ddininio

Apr 10th, 2020, 00:48

Hi All,

I've got a '64 Amazon that is missing the transmission linkage. It's an M40 transmission. I've got the new parts but there is no where to mount the slave cylinder to the bell housing. I've looking at diagrams, articles and even watched Wheeler Dealers episode and all housings have a mount for the slave cylinder. Mine doesn't. Do I have the wrong housing or am I missing something?

See the two pictures attached. One shows the mount (not mine), the other shows mine (no mount)

Dave

Ron Kwas

Apr 10th, 2020, 04:00

Dave;

First picture is of the Bell housing with Hydraulic Slave, where actuator rod pushes on (forged) throwout lever (as can be seen).
Second picture is of a later Bellhousing with Clutch Cable (not present), where cable pulls on (formed sheetmetal) throwout lever (visible).

So it looks like you've got a cable type bellhousing when in a '64 (with hydraulic clutch), you should have an early type bellhousing.

See also: https://www.sw-em.com/Clutch_-_cable_actuated_Notes.htm

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

ddininio

Apr 10th, 2020, 04:04

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the feedback. How would you suggest I move forward? Change the bell housing to a hydraulic one, or change to a cable system? There is no room for the clutch arm to be pushed (towards back of car). There is only room for it to be pulled towards the engine. Do both hydraulic and cable pull the arm?

Derek UK

Apr 10th, 2020, 10:03

Do you have a clutch master cylinder fitted with push rod from the pedal? '64 was Hydraulic with B18. Cable came when Volvo fitted the B20. It's possible that you have a B20/M40? You can mix and match a bit but most would stay away from using a cable clutch on a B18 Amazon. Did Canada have B20 Amazons officially, USA didn't. Bottom line fit a B18 bell housing with hydraulic slave set-up. Hydraulic pushes, cable pulls. The levers are mounted differently inside the bell housing to make this possible.

ddininio

Apr 10th, 2020, 16:34

Hi Ron,

I know that I have a B18 engine and an M40 transmission. I don't think the hydraulic will work as there is no room between the arm and housing for the arm to be "pushed". There is lots of room for it to be pulled which looks like it was meant for. I would rather not remove the transmission to put a new bell housing in. How difficult would it be to convert it to a cable system?

Volvo_133

Apr 10th, 2020, 19:39

As others have mentioned, the operating arm on a hydraulic clutch is different on the cable type. With the hyd bellhousing and operating arm fitted you will have room for the cyl piston to push. Unless the tunnel has been modified at sometime.
I can remove my gearbox, replace the clutch and refit the gearbox in 4 hours including a tea break! I think your biggest issue will be finding a hyd type bellhousing.
The later cars with the cable clutch do look messy under the hood. Your car will also be period correct if left hydraulic.

grumpydad

Apr 11th, 2020, 00:00

Hi
put a pic up of the bulkhead where the clutch and brake cylinder are
that will tell all

ddininio

Apr 11th, 2020, 01:03

@Volvo 133 - I'm not worried about being period correct or if it looks messy. I definitely know the arm is for a cable, not a piston. But you're right. I can't find a hydraulic housing anywhere. And I have 2 extra cable ones as well. So let's say I want to stay with cable.

@ Ron - attached are 2 pics of the bulkhead. As you can see there is a hold to the right of the brake cylinder where the clutch cylinder goes. I guess the question is, can I run a cable through the firewall and attached it to the pedal? I know I need a pedal with the hook at the top for the cable connect.

Ron Kwas

Apr 11th, 2020, 01:55

dd;

The short answer is no...remember, anything CAN be done, but the question to be answered first is: should it be...

Converting the Clutch Pedal from a push-a-rod-into-the-Master-Cyl to a pull-a-cable-end-with-respect-to-a-sheath is quite involved, and not really necessary when the parts to put yours right exist...I suggest you get a hydraulic suitable Bellhousing and associated parts (any 122 donor car will do, and don't tell me you cant find one of those!)

Cheers

ddininio

Apr 11th, 2020, 06:05

Ron,

I will follow your expert opinion and try to find a hydraulic housing. Unfortunately 122s are very rare in Toronto and Canada for that matter. But I will find one and make it right. Thanks for the advice and support.

Dave

Derek UK

Apr 11th, 2020, 12:18

Pics show that you should have a hydraulic MC. Two bolts for it one above the other and the pipe is there ready to fit. Same bell housing used on the B18 1800 so that widens your search a bit. First year of the 140 as well but not many of those about. I suggest you put up a wants on the Brickboard forum. That has quite a few Canadian members but if that doesn't find you one it shouldn't be too difficult to get one sent up to you from the USA for a reasonable cost. Can you help Ron?
How about this
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-auto-body-parts/lethbridge/antique-vintage-volvo-parts-p1800-544-122-122s-142s-144s-240/1351516124

mocambique-amazone

Apr 11th, 2020, 15:03

There is a pull version of the hydraulic slave at the market. Still very expensive....

Don't think about to swap to the cable version... a hughe downgrade.
Good luck, Kay

c1800

Apr 11th, 2020, 19:39

I have no idea if this is the correct one. Seller says it for hydraulic op clutch. Possibly check with him. Nick Tarlton on eBay sells lots of parts for vintage Volvo’s too, you could check with him as well.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/VOLVO-1800-122-Series-bell-housing-for-M40-M41-3/193366923618?hash=item2d05911962:g:2pkAAOSwNjleXez 8&vxp=mtr

Derek UK

Apr 12th, 2020, 11:29

Or this one. It does have arm, so a bonus. Part #418424

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-122S-140-142-1800-Aluminum-Clutch-Can-Transmission-Bell-Housing-418424/173762679431?epid=2092116272&hash=item2875101287:g:ojgAAOSw5cNYQePf

Ron Kwas

Apr 12th, 2020, 20:16

mocambique-amazone

Apr 12th, 2020, 20:40

Derek;

I don't have the BH he needs but I expect any specialist with donor cars should be able to help...

Happy Easter!

Kay: Please give more info on "pull version of the hydraulic slave at the market" tnx!

Here we are Ron :-)

https://www.limebug.com/product/view/4043/cnc-hydraulic-clutch-slave-cylinder-for-gearbox

Kits and slave by his own are available from beetle suppliers.

I did use this kind of stuff several times for beetles and 240 and Amazons.
The cable system at Volvos sucks

Happy Eastern all

Good night, Kay

red122

Apr 13th, 2020, 10:45

i have a complete hydraulic type bellhousing to sell if anyone is after one . Located South East England

Ron Kwas

Apr 13th, 2020, 13:53

Kay; Thanks...that's a double-ended generic hydraulic cylinder, again requiring mounting and engineering...I thought we were talking of OE equipment...

R122; Thanks for chiming in with offer, but OP is located in central Canada, so he needs to locate the necessary equipment on this side of the Atlantic (and he says in Canada, they are also scarce) ...here in the US, there are several specialized people who keep parts donor cars...I can only think of Chris Horn (aka Agent Strangelove) on the US west coast at the moment...

Cheers

mocambique-amazone

Apr 13th, 2020, 14:40

Ron; 90% of me working on cars requires engineering and special mounting. I think different to most other for this reason, sorry.

My next job is to modify a Volkswagen T3 synchro Oettinger WBX 6 cyl
Next in line is a 162, will be a 152 later.
Later a Fiat/Seat 600 with Lambda controlled Fiat Cinquecento engine, parallel to both a Volvo 262 ( very bad condition for bad luck) and next year a Porsche 911 2.4S, even harder to find than a RS.
And my RV, a Avia (Renault Saviem) from 1972.

Since 1990 I'm involved in special cars.

My mind and head isn't working like a maintenance guy. Sometimes good, sometimes even more difficult to survive.

Stay healthy

Cheers, Kay

Ron Kwas

Apr 13th, 2020, 16:14

Kay;

...an interesting list of "patients"...

It's OK to engineer changes when original is just no longer available or has inherent issues...that's how I typically come up with my kits. Some owner/mechanics are willing to, and capable of this, some are not, or just not in that position...in this case, the original should do the job well...it just looks like, for him, finding it is going to be a bigger-than-normal part of the job...unfortunately, this is what happens when you are not familiar with a car and you get it as a "basket case"...

Cheers

Edit: I don't feel quite as strongly as you about the cable type clutch...both hydr and cable type had their wearout mechanisms (and we now have reliability improvements for both!**), but I think both were basically sound...

** O-Ringed Piston and DOT5 for hydr type, and making Throwout Lever into a box-section for cable type...

Derek UK

Apr 14th, 2020, 12:15

Here you go Ron.

mocambique-amazone

Apr 14th, 2020, 16:44

Here you go Ron.

Could be mine Derek. My pics are analog and I'm too lazy to digitalise them (and post here, way too complicated for me)

Fantastic help as allways Derek

Best regards, Kay

mocambique-amazone

Apr 14th, 2020, 16:46

I did mount it the opposite way. At this pic the hydraulic line will move

mocambique-amazone

Apr 14th, 2020, 16:48

** O-Ringed Piston and DOT5 for hydr type**

Allways this Ron

Cheers, Kay

Derek UK

Apr 15th, 2020, 00:49

I think the pic was from a USA guy. I nicked it off Brickboard, as you can see, some time ago.

Ron Kwas

Apr 15th, 2020, 15:04

Derek;

Thanks for showing an example of what looks like one of the later slant 4cylinders with its Bellhousing, originally intended for a Cable Clutch (lower Cable termination appears to have been cut away), ready for service with a hydraulic Master Cylinder...showing once again, that a lot is possible...I'd be interested in long-term operational results of this set-up...can you post BB link?

Cheers

mocambique-amazone

Apr 15th, 2020, 18:19