D4204T5 excessive oil burn

[Dante86]

Dear Members,

I have bought a VOLVO V70 from year 2015 with D4204T5 (D4 Diesel) engine 3 weeks ago. The car run 192000 km.

I drove the first 1000 km without any problem. I went to a Volvo dealer for a re-call (I was told that a vent pipe must be installed in the cooling system).

After 200-300 km from re-call the message appeared on the dash board: add 0,5 half litre of oil, so I did.
After another 200 km the same message appeared, so I did again, but started to monitor the oil level on the dash board. Every morning and evening when I sat into the car checked, and it always showed the normal amount (only the stripe under max indication was missing).

After 200-250 km, yesterday the "add 0,5 half litre of oil" message appeared again. When I wanted to make the measurement, the dash board wrote "not available"

I went immediately to the Volvo dealer and I was told that they had to calibrate the oil measure on the dashboard with the computer and had to add 1 litre of oil. Now I shall wait, if error message pop up again or not.

TBH, I am a bit concerned, because within 2 weeks and 500 km almost 2 litre of oil had to be added. I see no oil leak on the floor. No black/blue exhaust gas coming, no power loss, nothing.

Please, help me. Can anyone had similar problem?

Thank you!

[Tatsfield]

Don't believe in coincidences! Suspect that the dealer forgot to put enough oil in the engine and all the "calibration" story is to cover his responsibility for his lack of competence. As you say, 2 litres of oil is a lot of oil to disappear without trace. I think if there was no oil at all in the engine, you would have discovered by way of indications other than dash warnings!

[Zebster]

It's quite possible the high oil consumption was happening when you brought the car and was maybe the reason for the previous owner selling the vehicle? And you wouldn't notice excess smoking due to the DPF.

Mine needs the odd top-up, but nothing alarming like that!

[Dante86]

It's quite possible the high oil consumption was happening when you brought the car and was maybe the reason for the previous owner selling the vehicle? And you wouldn't notice excess smoking due to the DPF.

Mine needs the odd top-up, but nothing alarming like that!

I am not sure. The sellers seemed to be reliable, older and rich person. They know I am lawyer, so I put a claim against them if this is the case, and also my first 1000 km was free of this problem.

[Dante86]

Don't believe in coincidences! Suspect that the dealer forgot to put enough oil in the engine and all the "calibration" story is to cover his responsibility for his lack of competence. As you say, 2 litres of oil is a lot of oil to disappear without trace. I think if there was no oil at all in the engine, you would have discovered by way of indications other than dash warnings!

But as far as I understood, during the re-call service the oil was not changed, only some hose has been installed into the cooling system.

[piotrek]

The most probable reason for excessive oil consumption are pre-2016 piston oil rings. Piston rings were modified in mid-2016. To avoid mass recall, Volvo considered 0.5l/1000 km oil consumption as normal and would not cover piston+rings replacement.

Technical Journal in the US (diesel D4 engines - not sold in the US - suffered identical problem)
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10146443-9999.pdf

https://youtu.be/8yJoHgwiwio

[AlexV70Drive1]

I’d take the car back for a refund or whatever you have to do to reclaim your money. I’m guessing you didn’t buy it knowing or suspecting it had oil consumption issues so you shouldn’t have to deal with it. Only 3 weeks in your possession so I’d just get rid one way or another and go buy another one! Unless it was so cheap in the first place that you can afford to do the work and still not have spent the same amount as one in sorted condition with the same miles.

[Dante86]

Dear Members,

With many thanks to Piotrek, I bought an ELM327 OBDII reader.
After the Volvo dealer did the oil top up and sensor calibration, I drove like 40 km and Car Scenner app showed 39mm engine oil level. The oil level was varying between 32 - 40 mm at the beginning depending on if I made the measurement in the morning or after driving (the latter is the higher volume).

Today, 670 km after the last top up, Car Scanner shows the oil level between 10 - 15 mm, however I have not received any message regarding "add 0,5 oil" so far (which I believe is very strange since as far as I know below 22 mm it should pop up already).
In the dashboard the oil level measurement gauge most of the time says nowadays "not available" and one or times indicated that "low oil level".

One more interesting info. I called the Volvo dealer where the previous owner used to take the car and ask them, if they were aware of any oil consumption problem of this car, but the answer was "no", however I have been told that the car 10.000 km ago had a warranty repair about the intake manifold melting problem, where they replaced also the valves, the EGR and the EGR cooler. I am not sure if this can be in connection with each other or no.

Tomorrow I go back to the official dealer and ask them to carry out the VIDA measurement.... Actually I like the car very much, instead of this it so perfect and lovable.

I am also thinking of putting in a bit thicker oil, maybe 0w30 or 0w40.

[Valdas1988]

So did you resloved oi burning problems? Because I got a same problem and now I will do replace pistons+rings of my car.

Dear Members,

With many thanks to Piotrek, I bought an ELM327 OBDII reader.
After the Volvo dealer did the oil top up and sensor calibration, I drove like 40 km and Car Scenner app showed 39mm engine oil level. The oil level was varying between 32 - 40 mm at the beginning depending on if I made the measurement in the morning or after driving (the latter is the higher volume).

Today, 670 km after the last top up, Car Scanner shows the oil level between 10 - 15 mm, however I have not received any message regarding "add 0,5 oil" so far (which I believe is very strange since as far as I know below 22 mm it should pop up already).
In the dashboard the oil level measurement gauge most of the time says nowadays "not available" and one or times indicated that "low oil level".

One more interesting info. I called the Volvo dealer where the previous owner used to take the car and ask them, if they were aware of any oil consumption problem of this car, but the answer was "no", however I have been told that the car 10.000 km ago had a warranty repair about the intake manifold melting problem, where they replaced also the valves, the EGR and the EGR cooler. I am not sure if this can be in connection with each other or no.

Tomorrow I go back to the official dealer and ask them to carry out the VIDA measurement.... Actually I like the car very much, instead of this it so perfect and lovable.

I am also thinking of putting in a bit thicker oil, maybe 0w30 or 0w40.

[Dante86]

So did you resloved oi burning problems? Because I got a same problem and now I will do replace pistons+rings of my car.

Not yet. Today Volvo diagnosed that there is no significant oil leak in the engine, so I was told this high oil consumption may be connected to a bad Turbo and/or piston rings.

[Dante86]

So did you resloved oi burning problems? Because I got a same problem and now I will do replace pistons+rings of my car.

Can you please let me know how much would cost the replacement for you?

[Valdas1988]

I did a call to the official volvo services in Sweden and they told me that There’s only two way to fix this problem, you have to replace pistons+rings or change the engine to new one. As well they offer call to official volvo service in my country and ask for Goodwell (that mean the service expenses can be coveted by volvo from 30% -70%). In my country volvo service offered me 30%... and they offered me only new engine witch costs 7000euros....
So i decided repair car by own money... I will replace pistons+rings.

I hope will help this info for you!

Not yet. Today Volvo diagnosed that there is no significant oil leak in the engine, so I was told this high oil consumption may be connected to a bad Turbo and/or piston rings.

[Valdas1988]

Yep sure, but the car will be dismantled only on Monday 26.10.2020. And When I will finish repairs of my car, I will comment the total amount of this repair
Can you please let me know how much would cost the replacement for you?

[Dante86]

Yep sure, but the car will be dismantled only on Monday 26.10.2020. And When I will finish repairs of my car, I will comment the total amount of this repair

Ok, many thanks for that.

[Valdas1988]

Well, I spended 1200 euros for new parts, repair cost 800 eur, total 2000eur.
etc.. my turbine has been leaking oil as well.. so double trouble. I paid 200 euros for to repair turbines.
Ok, many thanks for that.

[Sotosound]

Well, I spended 1200 euros for new parts, repair cost 800 eur, total 2000eur.
etc.. my turbine has been leaking oil as well.. so double trouble. I paid 200 euros for to repair turbines.

We’re you able to examine your old pistons and rings? If so, what was there condition?

Also, what was the condition of the cylinders?

[Dante86]

Well, I spended 1200 euros for new parts, repair cost 800 eur, total 2000eur.
etc.. my turbine has been leaking oil as well.. so double trouble. I paid 200 euros for to repair turbines.

Thank you, Under the terms of turbine you mean the turbo charger?

[Valdas1988]

Cylinders very good condition, the problem was with oil rings. There are very small holes for oil to flow. And my pistons weren't much burned yet, could have been put back old, but I had new ones and replaced...
We’re you able to examine your old pistons and rings? If so, what was there condition?

Also, what was the condition of the cylinders?

[Valdas1988]

VEA engines up to 2015 and prior to engine number 1501327 can be prone to developing high oil consumption. The solution is new pistons and piston rings.

Dear Members,

I have bought a VOLVO V70 from year 2015 with D4204T5 (D4 Diesel) engine 3 weeks ago. The car run 192000 km.

I drove the first 1000 km without any problem. I went to a Volvo dealer for a re-call (I was told that a vent pipe must be installed in the cooling system).

After 200-300 km from re-call the message appeared on the dash board: add 0,5 half litre of oil, so I did.
After another 200 km the same message appeared, so I did again, but started to monitor the oil level on the dash board. Every morning and evening when I sat into the car checked, and it always showed the normal amount (only the stripe under max indication was missing).

After 200-250 km, yesterday the "add 0,5 half litre of oil" message appeared again. When I wanted to make the measurement, the dash board wrote "not available"

I went immediately to the Volvo dealer and I was told that they had to calibrate the oil measure on the dashboard with the computer and had to add 1 litre of oil. Now I shall wait, if error message pop up again or not.

TBH, I am a bit concerned, because within 2 weeks and 500 km almost 2 litre of oil had to be added. I see no oil leak on the floor. No black/blue exhaust gas coming, no power loss, nothing.

Please, help me. Can anyone had similar problem?

Thank you!

[Zebster]

Well, I spended 1200 euros for new parts, repair cost 800 eur, total 2000eur.
etc.. my turbine has been leaking oil as well.. so double trouble. I paid 200 euros for to repair turbines.
I guess it's practically impossible to know which of those two separate issues was mostly responsible for the high oil consumption? Because I'd be happy to pay for the relatively cheap turbo repair but would keep topping up the engine using cheap oil to avoid the piston ring repair costs.

[Sotosound]

Cylinders very good condition, the problem was with oil rings. There are very small holes for oil to flow. And my pistons weren't much burned yet, could have been put back old, but I had new ones and replaced...

Many thanks.

Are you saying that the very small holes are new and that these small holes were letting oil through?

[Valdas1988]

That holes stoped flow oil in to pistons. The oil is returned to the engine via the pistons. after the oil has not passed through the pistons rings, it remains in the cylinders and as a result it is burned oil.
piston rings are most often damaged by egr valves because during combustion, everything is returned to the engine via the egr valve and etc..

Many thanks.

Are you saying that the very small holes are new and that these small holes were letting oil through?

[Valdas1988]

Not yet. Today Volvo diagnosed that there is no significant oil leak in the engine, so I was told this high oil consumption may be connected to a bad Turbo and/or piston rings.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10146443-9999.pdf

[Sotosound]

That holes stoped flow oil in to pistons. The oil is returned to the engine via the pistons. after the oil has not passed through the pistons rings, it remains in the cylinders and as a result it is burned oil.
piston rings are most often damaged by egr valves because during combustion, everything is returned to the engine via the egr valve and etc..

Please excuse my slowness in comprehension as I’m not a mechanic.

If I understand things correctly then the oil control ring is the bottom ring on a piston, and it ensures that the amount of lubricating oil that is allowed to pass by the piston rings is just enough to enable lubrication and no more than this. Is this right?

Are you saying that your oil control rings failed in their job and allowed additional oil to get past the piston rings and into the combustion chambers?

Are you saying that this oil was getting burned during combustion?

Are you saying that some of this burned oil was then passed through the EGR valve and back into the combustion chamber again?

Are you saying that this burned oil then contaminated the combustion chamber and caused damage to the piston rings (and possibly also to the cylinder liners)?

[piotrek]

VEA piston rings:
https://youtu.be/8yJoHgwiwio

General info:
https://youtu.be/Wadmzv1Vs0Q

[Sotosound]

VEA piston rings:
https://youtu.be/8yJoHgwiwio

General info:
https://youtu.be/Wadmzv1Vs0Q

Very informative.

I now understand.

Many thanks. :)

[Sotosound]

@Dante86 and @Valdas1988

How did your stories end?

@Valdas1988. How is the oil consumption?

@Dante86 Did you keep the car?

[Dante86]

@Dante86 and @Valdas1988

How did your stories end?

@Valdas1988. How is the oil consumption?

@Dante86 Did you keep the car?

Hi, Yes, I kept the car. The seller undertook the reparation in warranty. A smaller car service (not official Volvo) replaced the Piston rings (the oil rings were visibly clocked). The total repair cost £1000 for the seller (it was very cheap). Since they were disassembling the engine, valve steam seals and crankshaft seal have also been replaced. Now, after 1000 miles it seems the oil burn issue has no longer exist.

[Sotosound]

Hi, Yes, I kept the car. The seller undertook the reparation in warranty. A smaller car service (not official Volvo) replaced the Piston rings (the oil rings were visibly clocked). The total repair cost £1000 for the seller (it was very cheap). Since they were disassembling the engine, valve steam seals and crankshaft seal have also been replaced. Now, after 1000 miles it seems the oil burn issue has no longer exist.

That's great news!

Many thanks for sharing this.

[Chrisv60]

VEA piston rings:
https://youtu.be/8yJoHgwiwio

General info:
https://youtu.be/Wadmzv1Vs0Q

Brilliant, thanks. I had my engine replaced at 4 years old as they said there was something wrong with the piston rings. Volvo paid 90%. I never quite managed to get to the bottom of what the issue was, but now I get it. I've been worrying about it happening again but it looks like the revised rings might have sorted it.

[Digiboy]

I have this D4204T5 in my Volvo V60 D4 year 2015
And i face the same issue with the use of toooo much oil

I can find plenty of Technical Journal and recalls on US and AU sites for the petrol version but not for the Diesel...
like this one: http://australiancar.reviews/_pdfs/Volvo_B4204T11-B4204T12_oil-consumption_TJ-31216_201604.pdf


Is it possible to find Technical Journals/bulletins for diesel ?

/Lars

[Sotosound]

I have this D4204T5 in my Volvo V60 D4 year 2015
And i face the same issue with the use of toooo much oil

I can find plenty of Technical Journal and recalls on US and AU sites for the petrol version but not for the Diesel...
like this one: http://australiancar.reviews/_pdfs/Volvo_B4204T11-B4204T12_oil-consumption_TJ-31216_201604.pdf


Is it possible to find Technical Journals/bulletins for diesel ?

/Lars

Probably not, since Volvo aren't admitting that there is a problem with the diesel engines. This means that there won't be a Service Bulletin.

I have also just checked the engine number on my wife's V60 D3, which is using half a litre of oil every 700 miles, with the engine number at which the piston ring design was changed (according to the US recall for the petrol VEA engines), and it predates the change. This means that my wife's V60 has the old design of oil control ring. (Damn!)

[Sotosound]

Now that my own 2014 V70 VEA D4 has started to show increased oil consumption, I've tried to analyse the problem further, and I've just posted the following thread in the Diesel Engines forum.

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=316027

You might find it interesting, or thought-provoking, or depressing, or boring, or annoying, or all of these. :)

[AiV]

Well, I spended 1200 euros for new parts, repair cost 800 eur, total 2000eur.
etc.. my turbine has been leaking oil as well.. so double trouble. I paid 200 euros for to repair turbines.

Where did you repair your Volvo? I am having similar issue here in Kaunas.

[Diogo Santos]

Well, I spended 1200 euros for new parts, repair cost 800 eur, total 2000eur.
etc.. my turbine has been leaking oil as well.. so double trouble. I paid 200 euros for to repair turbines.


Hello Valdas, can you please share the list of material that you have changed in your engine?
Many thanks

[CaptainMarc]

Dear All,
My XC 70 2015 125.000 km with D4204T5 diesel is burning 8,4 Lt oil /10.000 km
this is exceeding Volvo spec...
It happened after a sensor in EGR recall in Belgium, since the engine got several ENGINE icon immediately after this recall and the oil consumption appeared obviously after that intervention.
The EGR was replaced after a while but the oil consumption was maintained...
The compression test is 100%, 100%,100%, 96% which is quiet good.

(blue smoke is apparent when decelerating downhill and resuming acceleration afterwards)I am facing the choice to investigate if:

-the turbo is responsible for leaking,

-valve guides oil leaks
or
- the infamous piston rings suspected and installed on this type off engine...

Some other Volvo owner suggest a problem of suction created by a faulty contact "the whole bloody thing is caused by a short on the Throttle body connector
plug"...

Any advise or expertise is welcome to solve this issue.

Thanks for reading and your input.

Marc

[sidubber]

Hi, just after more information on the oil rings. my engine number is 107.... so i know its in the effected range. I am looking to carrying out this repair. I have done this sort of thing before but not on this engine. My car has 110k full service history and Im losing about a litre every 500 miles. no leaks, turbo is good.
In general are the bores still okay ? even with over 100k ? Should i lightly hone the bores ?

When this job is carried out, do the cams have to be removed to remove the head?

Lots of questions. please reply if you have carried out this repair. Thank you

[Precise]

Hi, just after more information on the oil rings. my engine number is 107.... so i know its in the effected range. I am looking to carrying out this repair. I have done this sort of thing before but not on this engine. My car has 110k full service history and Im losing about a litre every 500 miles. no leaks, turbo is good.
In general are the bores still okay ? even with over 100k ? Should i lightly hone the bores ?

When this job is carried out, do the cams have to be removed to remove the head?

Lots of questions. please reply if you have carried out this repair. Thank you

Hi,

Did you get any joy with this?

Cheers!

[morsing]

[...]
In general are the bores still okay ? even with over 100k ? Should i lightly hone the bores ?
[...]


How did you get on with this? I am looking to undertake this job next summer. I am considering myself a very competent DYIer, will I be ok doing this? Haynes gives engine removal on the previous iteration four out of five spanners, so hopefully doable.

Did you check the bores? Our V70 has done 135 000 miles.

Regards,
Henrik Morsing

[Sotosound]

Hi, just after more information on the oil rings. my engine number is 107.... so i know its in the effected range. I am looking to carrying out this repair. I have done this sort of thing before but not on this engine. My car has 110k full service history and Im losing about a litre every 500 miles. no leaks, turbo is good.
In general are the bores still okay ? even with over 100k ? Should i lightly hone the bores ?

When this job is carried out, do the cams have to be removed to remove the head?

Lots of questions. please reply if you have carried out this repair. Thank you
1501327 is the engine number after which the new design of pistons and rings became standard.

[morsing]

I'm confused,

The Indy Volvo garage I spoke to said you just replace the rings, not the pistons, but this video says the rings only fit a new style pistons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yJoHgwiwio

Regards,
Henrik Morsing

[Sotosound]

I'm confused,

The Indy Volvo garage I spoke to said you just replace the rings, not the pistons, but this video says the rings only fit a new style pistons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yJoHgwiwio

Regards,
Henrik Morsing

If that's Horton Cars then their original fix was to replace the rings on the existing pistons. (In reality, however, in many respects they reconditioned the engine. They didn't just replace the rings.)

The replacement rings would be old-style rings, however, including oil control rings with very small drain holes that are prone to getting blocked and, to my mind, all that would do is to reset the clock for the engine, meaning that the problem might recur in a few years' time.

The better fix would be to replace both the pistons and the rings with the newer design items so as to permanently fix the issue for most cars. That would increase the cost, however.

To my mind, in many cases the repair cost makes the repair uneconomical as you'd be spending the value of the car to keep it on the road while adding no real value to it. In such a case it would be more cost-effective to sell the car and put both the proceeds from the sale and the would-be repair money towards buying a younger one without the problem.

[morsing]

If that's Horton Cars then their original fix was to replace the rings on the existing pistons. (In reality, however, in many respects they reconditioned the engine. They didn't just replace the rings.)

The replacement rings would be old-style rings, however, including oil control rings with very small drain holes that are prone to getting blocked and, to my mind, all that would do is to reset the clock for the engine, meaning that the problem might recur in a few years' time.

The better fix would be to replace both the pistons and the rings with the newer design items so as to permanently fix the issue for most cars. That would increase the cost, however.

To my mind, in many cases the repair cost makes the repair uneconomical as you'd be spending the value of the car to keep it on the road while adding no real value to it. In such a case it would be more cost-effective to sell the car and put both the proceeds from the sale and the would-be repair money towards buying a younger one without the problem.

But in my opinion, getting a younger car never fixes anything, you start over having to fix issues, pay for rust-proofing as people never do that here, more complicated car with more things to go wrong.

Replacing this car for something similar but younger would set us back £12-15 000, that's more than the £1 000 in parts it would cost me to do this job.

[Sotosound]

But in my opinion, getting a younger car never fixes anything, you start over having to fix issues, pay for rust-proofing as people never do that here, more complicated car with more things to go wrong.

Replacing this car for something similar but younger would set us back £12-15 000, that's more than the £1 000 in parts it would cost me to do this job.

Getting a younger example of the same model but with the new-design pistons and rings immediately fixes the problem that underpins this discussion, but if you're doing the work yourself, however, then that clearly alters the decision-making process.

If I were able to do such work myself then I would no doubt perform a repair.

[Geozyg]

Don't use thicker oil, it could make the piston ring issue worse.