"Miles to empty tank" accuracy

[Wonderboy]

Hi,

I'm a new member so hello everybody!

I was given a V50 loan car from my local dealers while my own V50 was being looked at and I noticed that the fuel looked pretty low. However, the 'miles to empty tank' read 50 miles which was more than enough to get me to work and back, so I thought! When I was about 3 miles from the dealers the computer still read 15 miles to go which was cutting it fine I know, but still 15 miles is a lot further than 0 miles which is what I actually had left...

I called the dealer to let them know I was seemingly out of petrol and as I was just down the road thought they might offer some assistance. Even if it was to call the RAC for me, but no, the service guy just said "what do you want me to do about it?".

I appreciate that normally it is pretty stupid and quite embarrassing to run out of petrol but on this occassion I feel the computer let me down. My V50 doesn't have a computer so I fill up whenever the light comes on or before.

Was this a fault with the computer or was just I silly to trust it?

Jamie

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,

It has been said in reference to other mpg calclations that the Volvo estimations are a bit generous.
From that you can read that the computer calculations are not to be relied upon for truely accurate displays.
These things are also affected by driving style, so I asssume the last person to drive the car was doing so knowing there was not much fuel left, which could affect the read-out..

Should have told the garage when they said "what do you want me to do about it?" : Ok.. I'll dump it here and you can deal with it.! I'd hurry up though as it's a bit of a rough area.. :)

Maybe next time, go to the nearest garage and put in 2 litres - the minimum you can pump. :D

Des. . . ;)

[pigapumbu]

Was this a fault with the computer or was just I silly to trust it?
Jamie

Without a doubt,.... it was the fault of computer. Why put a feature (which we have to pay for) that is not accurate is what I would love Volvo to answer? Taday we have cars on the road that has more computing power than a space shuttle (I think) so if this is the accuracy of all that computing power, I hate to be an astronaut.

"hey bill, it shows we can make another orbit and head back to earth with lots to spare.." ... yeah sure. If the guage is made by volvo, I better headback right now.

ps: I owned a different make car back in the 90's which had an onboard computer as standard. And the fuel readings were fairly accurate. I remember the to empty showing 0 miles and I still made it to a petrol station. I suspect it used the instantaneous reading to workout the balance and not average. The night before it showed 10 miles to go and in the morning it was down to 2miles left since its was drawing more gas when the car just started. Odd why Volvo can't seem to get such a simple thing right.

[Oli]

So you were planning on taking the car back completley empty so that the next person to borrow the car would get nowhere? That was good of you.

I expect there's still a traditional fuel gague, the needle for which must have been resting on the bottom pin. You must me used to that been a good indicator of needing fuel.

I think you'll have to accept that one being your fault on account of trying to get a free ride.

Oli

[Wonderboy]

Thanks for the replies,

I figured the computer should be reasonably accurate otherwise why bother with it! I have no previous experience of trip computers so didn't know if I was expecting too much of it.

I'm definately going to be writing to Volvo about this as I was stranded on a very busy A46* at rushhour with huge lorries bearing down on me and the service guy's reaction just astonished me. Good job I had my RAC card on me at the time otherwise I'd have had a long/dangerous walk to a garage.

* Near the 'Tollbar' island in 'Coventry'::(

[Wonderboy]

So you were planning on taking the car back completley empty so that the next person to borrow the car would get nowhere? That was good of you.

I expect there's still a traditional fuel gague, the needle for which must have been resting on the bottom pin. You must me used to that been a good indicator of needing fuel.

I think you'll have to accept that one being your fault on account of trying to get a free ride.

Oli

There was a garage near the Dealers at which I would have put in what I'd used before dropping it back. Besides, its not like there was much in for me to use either. Why don't they fill the tank so its easy to replace what you've used and you don't have to hunt around for a garage as soon as you collect the car?

[GMcL]

If they give out a car with a full tank, you can guarantee someone would take it and bring it back empty.

If you pick it up empty it makes you think about what you want to use it for and put in the amount of fuel you think you'll need.
You'll always put a little more in than you expect so the garage man gets enough to drive home and back for free too :)

If you only take the loan car to get to work and back why not use the dealer pick up and collect service whereby they take you and possibly a few others who work in the same area in one car ? That way you don't have to put petrol in the loan car and someone who may have geniune need of the car for the day, rather then have it sit in a company car park for eight hours, gets a loan car.

The computers calculates miles to empty, as previously posted, by using the instantaneous readings for the last x minutes. My S60 has a 6.9% error on average.

[S60-MBS]

The computers calculates miles to empty, as previously posted, by using the instantaneous readings for the last x minutes. My S60 has a 6.9% error on average.

Thats exactly what my trip computers been calculated at...i also use the dealer pick-up and drop off service as it is much more conveniant...last 2 times i used a loan car i had to temporarily change my insurance details and both occasions the cars (V50's) did not have enough fuel to reach fuel stations...

[Wonderboy]

My dealer wouldn't do collection and delivery as I work too far away, apparently. I agree it would be far easier though.

[GMcL]

There's probably no incentive Wonderboy for your dealer to offer the pick up/drop off service as you pay for the hire car in the cost of your service (usually about £30 per day) plus the cost of your insurance as mentioned by S60-MBS.

If the dealer provides this service, he doesn't get his free ride to from work (through the free petrol) and he has a car stuck on his forecourt which would otherwise be earning him money.

In Germany (NRW), as well as the pick up/drop off service they also give you the option of a public transport ticket. If you get the car serviced in a city and you can get to work by public transport they give you (probably included in the cost of the service but it's buttons c.£2.50) a day pass.

[Wonderboy]

I just put it down to poor service really. The BMW dealer up the road had no problems collecting my MINI from my place of work and the difference in mileage was minimal.

The last time my car was in to be repaired I was to keep the loan car for a few days so I put in what fuel I thought I would use in that time. They called a day later saying my car was ready and I could pick it up. So I returned the loan car with just under half a tank of diesel in as there was no way I could use it in that time.

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,

I must admit that the last couple of times I used a dealer loan car the tank was near empty.
The explaination wast that no one that used the car ever bothered to fill it up when they used it.
I managed to reach a garage and put a gallon in and when returnrd there was more fuel in it than when I received it..

Was nice to have the drp off and collect as it meant they had the car to use, and I was safe at home..

Des. . . ;)

[Pacman]

Wonderboy,

Was the dealer Tollbar at Coventry? I bought my V50 from there, good sales guys but I've heard bad things about their ongoing Customer Service, so their response to them running out of fuel doesnt surprise me. I've been recommended Johnsons in Hampton in Arden, and they seem a friendly bunch as they've just done my last service, although as expensive as ever. It's going back on Monday for a couple of minor glitches I have, they didnt have time last week, but again they're collecting and delivering for me (I work near Bham airport).

Next time I have a service I'm going to go to Chip Tuning LTD in Redditch (www.volvotuninguk.com) as they're supposed to be good. Wont get the delivery but if they;re a lot cheaper it'll be worth it!

HTH

Paul

[S60-MBS]

Wonderboy,

Was the dealer Tollbar at Coventry? I bought my V50 from there, good sales guys but I've heard bad things about their ongoing Customer Service, so their response to them running out of fuel doesnt surprise me. I've been recommended Johnsons in Hampton in Arden, and they seem a friendly bunch as they've just done my last service, although as expensive as ever. It's going back on Monday for a couple of minor glitches I have, they didnt have time last week, but again they're collecting and delivering for me (I work near Bham airport).

Next time I have a service I'm going to go to Chip Tuning LTD in Redditch (www.volvotuninguk.com (http://www.volvotuninguk.com)) as they're supposed to be good. Wont get the delivery but if they;re a lot cheaper it'll be worth it!

HTH

Paul

As Paul has just wrote Johnsons of Hampton in Arden are definitly a friendly bunch...had both my cars MOT's done there ...and bought afew bits for both cars there and got a voc discount too..and like Paul working next to airport is handy..my S60 was picked up and dropped off at promised times...i dont mind paying the price as long as i get the job what i want..

[Brian Davis]

'Near the 'Tollbar' island in 'Coventry':

Use Johnstons at Hampton in Arden (about 10 miles away) in future. 3 S40's from them sofar and the 4th on the 1st March. Never a problem

Brian

[Wonderboy]

I bought my V50 ex-demo from Tollbar in November and sales staff were extremely helpful and friendly. I have, however had ongoing problems with the car since to do with the car stuttering/dying on initial take-off. I have been back to the dealer three times and each time they cannot replicate the fault and therefore can't fix it. The last time it went in (when I ran out of fuel) they pretty much just checked the fault codes (none), washed it and rang me to say it was ready. I have since spoken to the dealer principle and threatened rejection and they are now taking it a bit more seriously.

The service manager is now going to take my car for an extended period to try and trace the fault. If they can't come up with anything they have offered to discuss doing some kind of deal, probably to part-ex it for a similar model or something.

If anyone has any idea what the problem might be then please let me know as I really like the car!

[Northview]

To some extent I think dealers should see the loan car service in two ways. Firstly, it's a customer service thing - make the customer feel that he's being looked after and his custom is valued, and he's likely to stick with you, even if you're not the least expensive around. Secondly, it can be an opportunity to sell the merits of a newer car, or one slightly higher up the range. I'm not saying that loan cars should be brand new and top of the range, but if it's reasonably new and somewhere in the midrange, a fair percentage of customers using it will be driving something "nicer" than their own car. Some dealers do this, as I know from personal experience.

As for the dealer not fueling the car, my local Volvo dealer is the same. Given the apparent inaccuracy of the gauge, warning light and computer, your first port of call is often a filling station - not ideal when you're trying to get into work after dropping off your car, and there are no filling stations nearby or on your route to work. The dealer for my previous (non-Volvo) car always provided a valeted and fueled car with the expectation that I replace any fuel used. I expect most people respond to well to being trusted and do indeed replace the fuel. Those who look for a free ride are probably in the minority.

All of these things add to the overall impression a customer develops of their car ownership experience. Add the recurrent faults, the less than stellar dealer service, and a lack of attention to customer care and many people will start to wonder whether they'd buy another (premium-priced) Volvo next time around.

(I realise not everyone shares this view or the experiences I've mentioned)

[Northview]

I have, however had ongoing problems with the car since to do with the car stuttering/dying on initial take-off. I have been back to the dealer three times and each time they cannot replicate the fault and therefore can't fix it. The last time it went in (when I ran out of fuel) they pretty much just checked the fault codes (none), washed it and rang me to say it was ready. I have since spoken to the dealer principle and threatened rejection and they are now taking it a bit more seriously.

The service manager is now going to take my car for an extended period to try and trace the fault. If they can't come up with anything they have offered to discuss doing some kind of deal, probably to part-ex it for a similar model or something.

If anyone has any idea what the problem might be then please let me know as I really like the car!

Sounds very similar to my experience. I've repeatedly had problems with uneven running under light load, and the car stuttering/dying when pulling away. On each occasion the impression I got was that the service department either just went with a "Oh that sounds like..." diagnosis, or were totally dependent on the fault codes in the computer. Is it not possible to do good old-fashioned fault diagnosis anymore? I know computers are increasingly integral to modern cars, but they're still basically mechanical devices aren't they? I went through several 'software updates' before they decided that it must be a faulty EGR valve (a known fault). They eventually replaced it, and while it has indeed been less troublesome, the faults still occur from time to time.

I eventually told them they should keep the car for as long as it took to fix the problems. They took it in over a weekend (Friday to Tuesday). I was phoned by them on the Monday to say that the car was ready, but when I asked, nobody had even checked one of the faults I'd explicitly asked them to look at.

I can't fault them for friendliness, but either the car is impossible to fix, or they don't know what they're doing.

I suggest following up on the EGR valve issue. It is a known fault on the current S40/V50 where it tends to stick

[pigapumbu]

....The dealer for my previous (non-Volvo) car always provided a valeted and fueled car with the expectation that I replace any fuel used. I expect most people respond to well to being trusted and do indeed replace the fuel. Those who look for a free ride are probably in the minority.

All of these things add to the overall impression a customer develops of their car ownership experience. Add the recurrent faults, the less than stellar dealer service, and a lack of attention to customer care and many people will start to wonder whether they'd buy another (premium-priced) Volvo next time around.

(I realise not everyone shares this view or the experiences I've mentioned)

I share the same view as you. My previous non-volvo dealer would always release the car with petrol and left it to individuals to top up before returning the car. I suspect if someone abused this kind gesture then the next time they wanted a loan car, they would be politely told none available.

[Wonderboy]

"....I suggest following up on the EGR valve issue. It is a known fault on the current S40/V50 where it tends to stick"

The EGR valve was replaced on the second visit but unfortunately hasn't cured the problem. I think Tollbar thought they had sorted it and were surprised when I called again.

I really don't trust the car much now. The other day I pulled out of a stop junction and the car just died on me. Fortunately there wasn't anything coming but it could have been dangerous. Now I give the accelerator a blip before pulling off just to make sure.

[Northview]

The other day I pulled out of a stop junction and the car just died on me. Fortunately there wasn't anything coming but it could have been dangerous.

This is precisely what worries me. A 'dead' engine in a situation like that could result in a serious accident.

My previous (non-Volvo) car was subject to a recall because of an intermittent fault in the windscreen wiper controller. They couldn't risk a failure of the wipers during heavy rain leading to accidents, so they pulled the cars in. This meant that they had to go to the expense of hiring cars from local hire firms to ensure that all their customers were able to keep mobile. In my case, I had a hire car for a month because of delays in getting the replacement part.

While that wasn't a situation that was pleasant for customers they felt it was the only responsible course of action in the circumstances, and while I (and many others) grumbled about it at the time, with the benefit of hindsight I'm glad they took that approach.

With the EGR valve problem (assuming that is where the problem lies), a failure at the wrong moment could be equally serious. The only reason I can think of why Volvo haven't issued a recall for this fault is that (a) it hasn't been reported as affecting a high enough percentage of cars, and possibly (b) there is no fix available that they are certain will resolve the problem. Either way, I hope it doesn't end up causing a serious accident.

[Wonderboy]

Its been 11 days since the car last went to the dealers and no dodgy starts so far (touch wood).

I spoke to the service manager and he explained that they thought air was getting into a vacuum pump that has something to do with the injectors. They replaced it and so far so good!


Jamie

[Northview]

Good to hear, Jamie.

I've had two dodgy starts since I last posted, the most recent being yesterday evening - started the car for the drive home and it sat there coughing and spluttering until I put it out of it's misery. When I restarted it, it was fine.

I think yet another trip to the dealer is called for. I'll suggest they look at the same area as your dealer.

[euro3b]

my gas calculator seems ok to me...:speechless-smiley-1

[webbie]

"....I suggest following up on the EGR valve issue. It is a known fault on the current S40/V50 where it tends to stick"

The EGR valve was replaced on the second visit but unfortunately hasn't cured the problem. I think Tollbar thought they had sorted it and were surprised when I called again.

I really don't trust the car much now. The other day I pulled out of a stop junction and the car just died on me. Fortunately there wasn't anything coming but it could have been dangerous. Now I give the accelerator a blip before pulling off just to make sure.


just to let you know, one morning I went to work but noticed staright away the car had no power (no turbo seemed to cut in). pulled over after a few miles, swicthed the car off and back on and it was good as new.

got to work, contacted dealer and after a lot of faffing around they collected car to replace EGR valve which they reckoned was the fault.

they did some checks and said my car (V50 2007 model) had the revised EGR valve which should not suffer same problem but then found a loose pipe in the engine. retightened and brought back to me (unwashed) but faster than before.

sorry dont know what pipe it was but thought I'd share my EGR experience

Webbie

[7050man]

Hi guys, perhaps a bit late on this one but my "Fuel problem and answer" post of Jan 10th could be reason for some of the stuttering and possibly starting problems.
Fault was down to air being drawn in and I also had a slight fuel leak. Read thread for more info. Hopefully it will help someone.

[guy-taliesin]

Sorry, just to go back to the beginning of this thread - does this mean that you should trust the computer, the mileage, or the gauge. Mine's reading off the bottom of the gauge and still 40 odd miles to go. The red light comes on at 60 miles. And the handbook's not much use, it seems to give a choice of 45 or 65 litres in the the tank.
Anyone know how much the tank does hold - it's 2 litre petrol V50.