Headgasket going or does the turbo use up water?

[Laney760]

Since I've had this 940 I've had intermittent water loss, sometimes as much as 2 pints in a week, no external leaks, not the heater matrix, have to top up lots after hard/some motorway driving, didn't have to top up a bit after one whole week of creeping/nursing around town. She doesn't overheat (brought her home at high speeds driven hard on motorway 100 miles plus when bought her), there are none of the usual signs of a headgasket going, no oil in water, water in oil, no milky oil, exhaust products 'normal' lol, it's definitely not the heater matrix, no internal leaks, but she does pressurise immediately after starting and the water pipes are rock hard and pressurised. A VW mechanic looked at it and was convinced head gasket fine. An RAC man told me to get the water system pressure tested. The mechanic did tell me however that turbos can use a lot of water. I check the water regularly and top up regularly if required.

However, I have read : If your gasket has gone between a cylinder and the cooling water jacket you'll have excessively high pressure in your cooling system with the engine running but no other symptoms

which is what I have got

Before I go down the road of having tests done on the vehicle reference the head gasket can anyone else tell me if their D24Tic's use water? Do the turbos 'burn' water? I have never had a turbo on a car before this one. Also, if it were the gasket going between a cyliner and a water jacket, might I get through to next year with it when I am considering a full engine rebuild or engine swapover? Or does anyone recognise my problem as you have so helpfully with some of my other threads

Thank you

[Clan]

VW specialist? surely he knows the VW diesel doesnt have a water cooled turbo? How can anyone say the head gasket is ok when you have this problem?I'd get someone more experienced !
It sounds head gasket or corroded head what else could it be .....??

[Laney760]

VW specialist? surely he knows the VW diesel doesnt have a water cooled turbo? How can anyone say the head gasket is ok when you have this problem?I'd get someone more experienced !
It sounds head gasket or corroded head what else could it be .....??



Hi Clan, I am totally ignorant of how turbos work/how mine works, so I didn't know that the intercooler wasn't run on water. However, what is the radiator for the turbo then? I've got two rads, a turbo one in front of the main one? Excuse my ignorance. Please tell me how my tic on my D24 works, thanks, if it's a quick answer for you

[Clan]

The intercooler radiator cools the air coming from the turbo to the engine as when air is compressed it gets hot ... Hot air is less dense therefore not so much volume of air can get in the cylinder so less power . thats the basics ..
Most diesel turbo chargers are not water cooled as the exhaust gas temperature is much less than a petrol due the diesel engine being more efficient ( less waste heat )
Modern high performance diesels ( the New D5 ) are water cooled as are most petrols ..
I hope that helps .
There is another new D5 coming at the end of the year over 200 bhp ;-)

[Laney760]

So I've managed to find yet another crap mechanic here in Henley? The guy specialises in VW turbo diesels so I naturally thought he knew what he was talking about. Thank goodness this guy is only doing some very basic stuff on my car next week. I just read that from a certain year the 740 etc. petrol models were fitted with a water to air intercooler so I was hoping you were wrong and they'd omitted to mention diesels, only because it means I've found another crap mechanic. I'm not making excuses for my gender, I'm female, love motors, know a lot more about cars than most of my female friends and don't mind getting my hands dirty one bit but not having the strength to do so many jobs myself and giving them to garages have not felt the need to learn up on stuff given that I'm paying through the nose to have work done but it isn't that the interest isn't there. My other diesel vehicle is as basic as they come, is very very simple, has the lowest compression at manufacture, a Merc 307D, someone I know has done 700 thou on same engine. I am finding this D24tic beast a bit more complex

[Peter Milnes]

To confirm what Clan is saying the D24TIC has an air-air intercooler and usually has the Garrett Turbo which is oil-cooled by the oil passing through the bearings. According to my information they never fitted the D24TIC with the Mitsubishi turbo which is watercooled by the coolant passing through the body surrounding the bearings. The engine has an oil cooler fitted underneath the coolant radiator and , if automatic gearbox has an ATF cooler integrated into the radiator. The intercooler is fitted in front of the radiator. If you have air-conditioning the heat exchanger fits in front of the intercooler. Mine was recently dripping water but I have seemed to cure it by replacing the radiator cap (on the overflow container on top of the driver's side inner wing, in front of the strut tower).

All the best, Peter. :car-smiley-031:

[Laney760]

Aaah, as far as I am aware I do have the Mitsubishi turbo so perhaps mine is after all a water to air cooler? Mine is a 1992. I will have to find out definitely if it is the Mitsubishi. I do have a drip exactly where you say but mine is definitely coming from the windscreen washer fluid container, it only drips immediately after I've used the screen washers

So, if I do have the Mitsubishi turbo, could the mechanic be right, do these use/evaporate water in any way? I have to say in fairness to this vw diesel specialist he's not worked on a D24TIC before as far as I am aware?

[jpliddy]

speak to your main dealer give them the reg no they shoud have case history on what was built on your car . if they are not helpful put out an appeal for a helpfull dealer. if you examine the turbo ther shoud be info on it . all the best j,p liddy

[craig8661]

one thing is i do say pull the lower part of the drivers side dash down and pull back the carpet mine had a drip there and would hold water ok but motorway work would push it out
it could be as your saying the head gasket as i saw anouther post where you was saying low power etc
does it white smoke when running hot you will get a little when cold
also check all the hoses see if you can see any green on the edges where they meet the steel as it could be a small weep
also its hard to see but there is a heater hose on the very back of the engine and a bung plate abouve it may be below cant exactly remember could be that one weeping
also with yours being intercooled does it seem to be adding to the oil if so replace the oil cooler as thats a comman falior part on the water cooled oil cooler you will see it square box between oil filter and housing with two pipes going out of it
now i could be wrong on the oil cooler as it could have been the 740 set up like that

[Laney760]

speak to your main dealer give them the reg no they shoud have case history on what was built on your car . if they are not helpful put out an appeal for a helpfull dealer. if you examine the turbo ther shoud be info on it . all the best j,p liddy


I'd already supplied my vehicle details (but not chassis/eng numbers) on an online form to a turbo supplier some time ago and it came up with the Mitsubishi one but I will check with Volvo main dealers as people on here seem quite confident mine isn't the Mitsubishi. Had a very quick look at the turbo today for info on it but not enough time, will take a look Monday, thanks

[Laney760]

I have wondered about my carpet my side as it's clearly been wet at some time, it doesn't lay right, but not wet or damp, will scrutinise it further back. Will also have another good look at the back of the engine. Have studied the engine many times intricately for signs of leaks but none. I had white smoke on start up when I first got her but now it's black. If you thrash her in first or second you used to get white smoke, but now it's black (bit slow in first or second if you don't thrash it, try not to but find it hard to nurse her around 24/07 plus I've been used to a very powerful car before). No problems or smoke hard driving in 3rd or 4th. Hoping change from white to black will go after her oil/filter change next week but the black smoke and some oil usage only began after the diesel specialists revved the backside off of her when she was clearly cold despite my telling them that these engines must be thoroughly warmed up first, they say they've worked on these engines for years and never heard of that (sorry for ranting). Also, as I said, just that once, I did have white smoke emission at sorta low constant emission for a while after flooring it to overtake several vehicles uphill that time. I did once have a petrol vehicle that used water in this way with no obvious leaks and after about nine years the head gasket went so theres hope there! Theres a bit of me thinks I should just enjoy driving this car, drive it hard, enjoy it, and what happens happens......

Yes, I've got the same oil cooler on this 940 as you are talking about. When you say 'adding to the oil', do you mean adding to my oil usage or increasing my oil level. Oil level has never increased, would be definitely thinking head gasket if it did. Oil level was always constant, never ever had to top it up, until the diesel specialists got their hands on her..

THANK YOU



one thing is i do say pull the lower part of the drivers side dash down and pull back the carpet mine had a drip there and would hold water ok but motorway work would push it out
it could be as your saying the head gasket as i saw anouther post where you was saying low power etc
does it white smoke when running hot you will get a little when cold
also check all the hoses see if you can see any green on the edges where they meet the steel as it could be a small weep
also its hard to see but there is a heater hose on the very back of the engine and a bung plate abouve it may be below cant exactly remember could be that one weeping
also with yours being intercooled does it seem to be adding to the oil if so replace the oil cooler as thats a comman falior part on the water cooled oil cooler you will see it square box between oil filter and housing with two pipes going out of it
now i could be wrong on the oil cooler as it could have been the 740 set up like that

[Peter Milnes]

A diesel engine does not need to be warmed up, it should pull with almost full power from cold start. It warms better under load. It does sound as if you need to reset the pump to the settings in the book. When you can read the *.pdf version of the Green book you will find a fault finding section very near the front of the book.

All the best, Peter. :car-smiley-031:

[Laney760]

A diesel engine does not need to be warmed up, it should pull with almost full power from cold start. It warms better under load. It does sound as if you need to reset the pump to the settings in the book. When you can read the *.pdf version of the Green book you will find a fault finding section very near the front of the book.

All the best, Peter. :car-smiley-031:


Hi Peter

I have read from dozens of different sources that this engine has one really really long oil pipe, problems with oil circulation and even after operating temperature is reached on the temp guage that it is probably sometimes as much as ten minuntes after that that oil pressure is at it's correct operating level and that that is why so many of these engines were so short lived. Can post lots of links to this later if you'd like them. Thanks

[craig8661]

hi the oil cooler has been known to weep oil into water thats all i was saying

[SeanO'Connor]

I wouldn't let it worry you so much, if you are planning on a rebuild, What I would say however is, that if you are worried (I noticed you said you drive hard?) try driving a bit steadier and give it a bit longer?

[Laney760]

She was booked in on the 16th for the cambelt change with the diesel garage recommended by the RAC. The cam belt is now cancelled and she is booked in for diagnosis, they said it sounds like she is burning water in the cylinders hence no water in oil etc... but couldn't rule out water pump as she is burning water under load. If it is the head gasket they will put in a new headgasket and replace the cam belt for £600 plus vat which is pretty good so I will have some idea by the 16th what is wrong and think I can raise the money by the beginning of November. Getting excited about getting this engine up to scratch and then looking forward to having a tune up like Peter Milnes, lol, pushed her in first and second last night which I don't normally do to avoid smoking and was amazed how very fast she is as in 0-60 but now I'll behave and nurse her around until she is up to scratch! Have posted this also on my other thread re engine rebuild, the head gasket or turbo using water thread and then update this thread when I have diagnosis as to what is wrong with her but sure it is head gasket

[jor]

Presumably that will be a volvo (or vw?) gasket they will be fitting? It is a steel item anyway. Also will they change the cam tensioner and water pump?
I've seen aftermarket water pumps for sale, but tensioners only come from volvo AFAIK. As I'm sure you have found out from your researches the only real gremlins with the engine are with the oil and the coolant - so make sure they have a good look at the coolant hoses.
Like you I was initially captivated by the notion of hatchback performance, however the expense involved in changing the belts and above bits was quite enough to cure me of this ambition, so now I am content purr along only causing annoyance to people for whom the speed limits just are not fast enough. Of course if money was not an issue...

jor