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asneddon
Mar 24th, 2009, 22:05
I have always had a bit of trouble with exhausts and when I had my P1800 restored I thought I may as well fix the issues.

So while the engine was out I asked Tony Barrett in london (who was doing other work on the engine, but thats a different story) to supply a new two downpipe manafold to replace my single downpipe one. I spacifically said I wanted a two piece one as I might want to go to a tubular header in the future. I should mention that the car came with a seperate inlet and exhaust manifold.

During the restoration my company moved me from London to Oxford, so I couldn't check up on the work as much as I wanted to. I got around every fortnight to three weeks for the body work which was being done at the Car Hospital, who I couldn't recommend more, but never got to see the engine until after it was fitted to the car.

Anyway, it turned out he had fitted a single casting manifold but I dont notice at the time.

Fast foward three months of daily use and I'm sick on the exhaust leak from the join of the downpipe and first flat pipe section. I had had three garages in Oxford look at it and they could fix it. Im also not 100% sure I dont have an air leak in the manifold as I cant get the idle to stay constant. Sometimes it will idle nicely at 800rpm ish, other times it sits at around 1200, other times it wont idle at all unless I keep the engine alive by left foot braking.

Well, I decide to bite the bullet and fit a whole new exhaust system from tubular manifold right back. I choose the Simons system as its got lots of praise from most sites on line. Im a bit supprised they dont to a 4-2-1 header, only a 4-1 which is a shame as I never rev the car hard and like mid range torque over high rev HP. Anyway, I listen to Tony and get him to order the system.

I organise a meeting in my companys London office and book the car in with Tony. I tell him I can drop it off in the morning, train to work, then come back at about 15:00 to 15:30 that evening. I hear nothing from him all day.

I get back at about 16:30 as the meeting ran over, and they are still finishing off the fitting. They explain that the front pipe from the Simons kit that is meant to join the headers to the first muffler didnt fit, so they used the centre muffler from an amazon kit, which meant they had to use an amazon rear section over the axle.

The rear muffler is sitting on the body, and the twin pipes out the back are sitting at an angle rather that level. I get them to adjust things to get the pipes sitting flat. Then they lower the car to start it and BANG. One of the head studs blows off and the header doesnt seal. Sounds like there is no exhaust at all.

I end up getting a courtesy car and heading back to oxford, leaving them to sort it out. I head back a couple of days later to pick it up and get handed a £700 bill! The original quote was £300 for the system and £100 to fit it. I'm fine paying a little extra as the head stud broke, and paying for the new studs isnt a problem, but an extra £300 for something they broke!

On with the story. Tony shows the system off and tells me to be carefull over speed bumps as its lower than standard. I head off and find not only do you have to be carefull over speed bumps, you have to basically stop. Same for pot-holes, man hole covers, and wobbly roads! Any vague bump caused a huge bang from the system hitting the body!

This is obviously not acceptable and has removed all my enjoyment from the car. Im starting to dislike being in it which is a problem as I drive it to work every day! So I take it into a local exhaust place in Oxford and had them put it up on their ramp. I was going to get them to fit a new standard system and flog the brand new Simons one on ebay (probably for a huge loss). 15 minutes and £20 later they have fixed a leak from the front pipe, moved the mounting braket on the centre pipe and spread the back pipe that goes over the axle to clear where it was hitting! They say the fitting was worse than they would expect from a 10 year old. The rear pipe was sitting on the bottom of the suspension spring when at rest, after 2 inches of compression this pushed the top of the pipe into the floor. This not only caused the huge bangs, but meant that I only had 2 inches of suspension travel on the rear drivers side! Oh, and they had bashed the body work out of the way in a couple of places! Not only that, they didnt replace the underseal, leaving bare metal in places!

As they had to move the carbs back from the manifold they supplied earlier onto a seperate inlet manifold (probably my original one anyway) I was hoping the air leak would be fixed. Wouldnt you know it but they didnt use new gaskets! They also re-used a perished fuel pipe that joins the twin carbs (I noiced this after the car started ****ing fuel out when hot and at idle!). The idle is a llittle better, but they had it set to idle at about 1100rpm which is a little high for me. I can live with it though.

So, does it go and sound better? Well, if you like the sound of a Supra, then I guess yes. Its quite a high pitch sound with a whistle at low throttle openings. Its not horrible but its also not the throaty burble I wanted. Its higher pitched than what was on it. As for power, there is no extra in the rev range I use. I guess there might be more if you red line it, but thats not how I drive these days. This doesnt really worry me to be honest. I wasnt after power in the first place. I figure a car like this should look, smell, and sound good. If it goes well then thats an extra!

Anyway, I would say you should all think twice before getting any work done by Tony Barrett. He is probably ok for getting parts through but the quality of the work is just terrible. Im now worried about the engine work I had him carry out a while ago (new D cam, front and rear seals modified to take modern seals, new clutch).

Attached are a few photos for reference.

asneddon
Mar 24th, 2009, 22:07
Here are some photos of the carbs

stevo48
Mar 24th, 2009, 22:24
Thats quite a horror story considering you used what is supposed to be a reputable company, are you chasing them up regards some form of compensation?

asneddon
Mar 25th, 2009, 07:15
I wasn't going to bother when I thought it was just the exhaust. Since the carbs are leaking I'm thinking about it now. Probably too much bother at the moment. I've just had a baby, so have other things on my mind.

johnjp
Mar 25th, 2009, 10:31
I wasn't going to bother when I thought it was just the exhaust. Since the carbs are leaking I'm thinking about it now. Probably too much bother at the moment. I've just had a baby, so have other things on my mind.

You can`t let them get away with that.
Solicitor required?.

austingipsy
Mar 25th, 2009, 11:01
Tony occasionally pops up on these forums so If he's reading these posts an explanation might well be forthcoming. A good reputation takes years to build and customer care and satisfaction is paramount in that. Send him a frank PM and see what happens. A timely and generous gesture on his part should see this resolved in an amicable way which is in everyone's best interest.

asneddon
Mar 25th, 2009, 13:03
I spent quite a bit of time on they day I was handed the bill trying to sort something out. Tony was having none of it. At that stage I didn't know how badly the work had been done.

To be honest £300 isn't worth upsetting my life over. It does mean I can't spend any more money on the car though. Wife is beyond anoyed!

That means no new progressive springs and gas shocks (which I probably would have sources through tony). Also the re-trim is a non starter now.

austingipsy
Mar 25th, 2009, 16:16
Please be wary of posting comments about poor workmanship on the forum, It's a real legal minefield and It's too valuable a resource to take any risks with. I'd be sunk without this place to fall back on for good advice.
Best to deal with Tony via PM's or a pint or two,and hope you can get it resolved, might take a while and test your diplomacy skills but it's preferable to a public debate.
This kind of thing is massively frustrating but you'll hit on a compromise with a bit of luck. And hopefully you can end up with a healthy sounding burble which has always been music to my ears.

tdz840
Mar 25th, 2009, 18:04
Please be wary of posting comments about poor workmanship on the forum, It's a real legal minefield and It's too valuable a resource to take any risks with. I'd be sunk without this place to fall back on for good advice.
Best to deal with Tony via PM's or a pint or two,and hope you can get it resolved, might take a while and test your diplomacy skills but it's preferable to a public debate.
This kind of thing is massively frustrating but you'll hit on a compromise with a bit of luck. And hopefully you can end up with a healthy sounding burble which has always been music to my ears.

If I can offer a point of view:
Its not good when workmanship isnt up to the standard we all expect and by the looks of the pictures perhaps more could have been done.
Im not defending Braydon Motors in this regard but what I will say if that my dealings with Tony and his Team have only been good. Always helpful, prepared to listen then offer advice we would all be the poorer if he wasnt around.
In business there are always the times that we dont get things right and I do feel you should provide Tony the opprtunity to respond. Not on this forum but through email, telecon or prefably writing with attached pictures.
As I say Tony is an invaluable wealth of information and a genuinely nice guy as well
Hope this helps
Russ

Blue 8
Mar 25th, 2009, 19:40
Omg that is disgraceful, i would certainly take it further.

TomTom
Mar 26th, 2009, 09:13
This board was withdrawn completely not so long ago because of the reaction of a company against what had been written about it on the board. However truthful you're being, however accurate the information given, I think it's best to anonymise complaints about bad workmanship, and just seek general advise from the board, and then to take up the matter privately with the company whose work you weren't satisfied with.

But I sympathise, because with every place I've ever been to for work, there's always been something that I had to have re-done. I wish there was one central UK feedback network, Ebay-style, for all businesses, and we could just go and see 100s of honest ratings for wherever you wanted to go; that would soon sort things out.

Tom

random_noise
Mar 26th, 2009, 09:18
But I sympathise, because with every place I've ever been to for work, there's always been something that I had to have re-done. I wish there was one central UK feedback network, Ebay-style, for all businesses, and we could just go and see 100s of honest ratings for wherever you wanted to go; that would soon sort things out.

Tom

http://www.goodgaragescheme.co.uk/
http://www.goodgaragereviews.co.uk/

There are a few of these sites - unfortunately none of them are exactly comprehensive. Still seems to be a little bit easy for someone who works there to make a few fake 'good' reviews to tip the balance against 1 bad. If more people started using these types of sites though it would be pretty handy at weeding out the scammers.

asneddon
Mar 26th, 2009, 20:29
I've been informed that the company that did the work on my car is only situated at Braydon Motors, NOT Braydon motors themselves.

I can't apologize enough for using their name in my first post but I don't seem to have access to edit it. If any Ops are reading, could you please remove references to them from my first post.

As for people saying I should follow it up or get hold of 'T' (now anonymous), there isn't anything I want from him. I'm not going to take the car back to London, the exhaust is now fine, and I fixed the fuel leak with £0.60 worth of hose clips. I've ordered new gaskets, and when they arrive I will fit them myself some weekend. I don't even want any money back from him anymore to be honest. Best to just let life go on.

About not posting negative experiences about work you have had done. That seems a bit Orwellian to me. Posting lies and slander is of course not a good thing, but I think I've been more than fair. I even said they are probably fine to order parts though! As for the quality of the work, everyone has a bad day every now and again, and people shouldn't take my experience as being the norm. With all the positive references to 'T' I had read on line I think a single negative one wont be the end of the world for him.

As a final note to any ops. If you are worried about the implications of this thread (I didn't know about the previous takedown) then please remove it. If you do I will post an apology to Braydon Motors, as again, I was dealing with a separate company operating from the same site.

Allister

foggyjames
Mar 26th, 2009, 20:54
I'm aware of your request, Allister, but I feel it's something the team need to have a chat about. I'm not worried enough to zap it on the spot, but we will deal with it ASAP.

You're quite right, there is a time limit (around 30 mins, I believe?) on editing your own posts (the idea being to prevent people from 're-writing history' in contenious threads. The downside is in situations like this...

cheers

James

keithf
Mar 26th, 2009, 20:56
I know we don't want to drop anyone in it, but I think if someone has a bad experience at a garage then others who may use the garage should know about it.
I'm no technician, but even I can fit an exhaust properly. It's not hard, keep it on the mounts and away from the body and when you've finished give it a good shake to make sure it doesn't foul anything! Any garage should be able to do this (even with a pattern exhaust).
Perhaps the company in question has a new tea-boy/girl and thought they would try him/her on something easy!

foggyjames
Mar 27th, 2009, 02:17
Hi all,

The forum team have had a chat about this thread, and we've come to a decision. I've made the requested adjustment to the first post (from Braydon Motors to Tony Barrett), although it should be noted that Tony now works "at" (with? for? I'm not sure of the exact deal) Braydon Motors.

There's no need to worry about posts of this nature leading to a closure of the forum. That was a specific situation which has since been resolved. I'm confident that even if such a situation became that contentious again, it would be dealt with prior to becoming serious enough to lead to a closure of the forum.

So, we don't feel there's any need for you to refer to him as "T". If you feel you have had bad service and Tony has passed on the opportunity to put the situation right, the forum rules (http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/rules.html) state that you have every right to post your message here as long as Tony has the opportunity to reply. Apparantly Tony is aware of this thread and has decided not to reply. The key difference is the concious decision not to reply, rather than being denied the opportunity.

To put it another way, the Volvo Owners Club is just that - for the owners.

Hopefully that clears things up a little.

cheers

James

asneddon
Aug 9th, 2010, 23:49
Just to put the icing on the cake, 17 months later, and the exhaust fell off!

Its in at a local (New Zealand) place getting sorted out once and for all. These are guys I've used for lots of work over the last 20 years, from Minis to Range Rovers. They know what they are doing, and have all the equipment to get it right.

I'm also getting them to put the original stainless sweeping tail pipes on rather than the stupid Simons fat stubby tail pipes.

Allister

classicswede
Feb 20th, 2012, 23:38
Do you have any photo's of teh new updated system?

What was the problem with the correct 1800 system?

asneddon
Feb 21st, 2012, 19:39
I do have photos, but I cant find a way to upload them off my phone. I guess I'll have to post from a PC sometime.

The problem with the correct 1800 tail pipes was jsut the look. Two stubby fat outlets didnt suit the look of the car at all. Also they made it sounds a bit 'modern' boy racer.

asneddon
Feb 21st, 2012, 19:49
Here are some photos. Sorry the car is so filthy, and the shots are only from my phone.

In order:
Fallen off exhaust
Old tailpipes welded back on to Simons rear silencer (will replace with new at somestage)
Slight problem with my ramps!
Another view of the simons tailpipe when it fell off.

Derek UK
Feb 21st, 2012, 20:59
That type of ramp doesn't suit an Amazon either especially when it has mudflaps. You can make up a small sub ramp out of the same type steel section to ease you upwards or a couple of short lengths of scaffold board. Make sure it's strong!

asneddon
Feb 21st, 2012, 21:13
Nah. those are old and ugly. I'm going to dig a pit in my basement instead. I want to run the sump somewhere thats easy to get to, and an inspection pit liner is pretty cheap. My brother in law has a digger, so making the hole shouldn't be an issue.