Help - Volvo Dealer Playing Games with financing

[XC60Monkey]

Slightly complicated issue regarding my dealer playing games with car finaning rates - hope an expert here can help me out ...

Three weeks ago I ordered a factory build XC60 and put down a £500 deposit. As part of the deal, I was offered a £1000 deposit contirbution from Volvo finance - the rate verbally offered was 5.9% APR. In the intervening period I've made repeated calls and requests for a the finance quote including T&Cs. I was repeatedly fobbed off with stories of admin assistants on holiday / email not working / 'its on the computer' - finally managed to get the quote through - they want to charge 15% APR. Clearly I'm not going to accept this rate and thus I lose the £1000 deposit contribution from Volvo. My question is do I have a right to cancel the order as a result of this and get my deposit refunded? I'd still like to buy the car at the agreed price / finance rate, but have now lost all confidence in the dealer.

Any help much appreciated.

[GMcL]

Either go in and speak to the manager and explain the situation or walk away and find another dealership it's a Volvo, not a Lamborghini or Ferrari.

I was amazed at some of the interest rates Volvo were charging when I was in a couple of weeks ago. Some DRIVe models were the 5.9%APR you say you were quoted but the majority were in the 11 to 16% bracket.

Who signs up for a new car which is going to lose thousands the moment you turn the key and then pay an extra 16% APR on top in the current climate?

[/irony]Can't see why cars aren't flying out of the showrooms[/endirony]

[WoodyWP]

Even if you signed something there should be a 'cooling' off period whereby you can cancel it. I would go and talk to the manager (if he/she's any use) and put your case forward. If all fails I would cancel the order and go elsewhere as per GMcL. You may need to do some things formally to get your £500 deposit back but as they messed up then you should have a pretty good case.

[v8disco]

I presume the £500 was on credit card? in which case, no problem

[migrator]

As this was a 'new car' order was there not an order form to be signed? This should have shown vehicle details and specification together with any factory fit extras. There should also have been reference to any finance arrangements and terms/conditions.

Make an appointment to see the dealer principal at the dealership. Let them know why you want the appointment. They will get one side from the sales staff and then get yours at the meeting. Take someone with you as there will probably be at least one other present from the dealership. Try in the first instance to keep it all friendly.

Were you and the sales person always alone throughout the deal making? If you had any witnesses to the discussions, including dealer staff, your case could be strengthened. I am no legal expert in English law (or any other) but I believe that even verbal contracts in England are fully binding on the parties.

[XC60Owner]

On the volvo site is says XC60 financing 'typical' 5.9 APR http://www.volvocars.com/uk/All-Cars/Volvo-XC60/offers/Pages/retail_promotion_xc60.aspx.

It says 'typical' is subject to status. Without wishing to offend, could the higher rate be in some way related to your credit rating? e.g. ironicaly if you haven't borrowed much before you are not rated so highly.

Either way, if they verbally told you 5.9% then either they give you that or your £500 back, check the sale of goods act. My guess is that it covers this sort of thing.

[roblang]

Slightly complicated issue regarding my dealer playing games with car finaning rates - hope an expert here can help me out ...

Three weeks ago I ordered a factory build XC60 and put down a £500 deposit. As part of the deal, I was offered a £1000 deposit contirbution from Volvo finance - the rate verbally offered was 5.9% APR. In the intervening period I've made repeated calls and requests for a the finance quote including T&Cs. I was repeatedly fobbed off with stories of admin assistants on holiday / email not working / 'its on the computer' - finally managed to get the quote through - they want to charge 15% APR. Clearly I'm not going to accept this rate and thus I lose the £1000 deposit contribution from Volvo. My question is do I have a right to cancel the order as a result of this and get my deposit refunded? I'd still like to buy the car at the agreed price / finance rate, but have now lost all confidence in the dealer.

Any help much appreciated.


I will explain fully how this works, the £1000 deposit contribution is available on the XC60 range until the end of June, but there is also a rate of 5.9%APR, however the 2 are non combinable, If you are in a position to pay off the balance very quickly (IE) 1-2 months then you should take the Deposit Contribution. If not then you should take 5.9%APR, you will see there is some reference to your credit rating further down this post this is simply not the case you will either qualify to have finance with VCF (Volvo Car Finance) or you won't.

Your deposit refund will depend on a number of factors:

Were you sold both as combinable schemes by a inexperienced sales executive?

Have you signed an order with an amount due from the finance company? if so did it make any reference to a deposit contribution scheme?

Have they ordered the car yet?

It is up to you what you do from here, but the advise also given here is sound, speak with the business manager he is ultimatly responsible for arranging the finance agreement.

If you are going to fight for your deposit back be prepared for a fight, as the dealer will have a c£30000 piece of stock coming in with your name on it. they will not give up lightly.

Let me know if you intend to stay with them.

[roblang]

Either go in and speak to the manager and explain the situation or walk away and find another dealership it's a Volvo, not a Lamborghini or Ferrari.

I was amazed at some of the interest rates Volvo were charging when I was in a couple of weeks ago. Some DRIVe models were the 5.9%APR you say you were quoted but the majority were in the 11 to 16% bracket.

Who signs up for a new car which is going to lose thousands the moment you turn the key and then pay an extra 16% APR on top in the current climate?

[/irony]Can't see why cars aren't flying out of the showrooms[/endirony]

THE CURRENT CLIMATE:

You mean where the bank are not lending to each other let alone us mear mortals. the reason the rate is so high at the moment is because the LIBOR (London Inter Bank Offered Rate) is so high currently about 5% therefore to make any return the rates to us as dealers is about 6% then of course we need to make some aswell, and so it goes on. Then convert your flat rate to an APR and so you have it 12-16%

Cars are in fact flying out of the showroom, trust me we are having the best time of it at the moment. having just had the best 1st qtr performance in my 10 years experience as a dealer and a 2nd qtr with a performance already complete the numbers speak from themselves and I can assure you we are not alone in this. Scrappage is then incremental to this.... The message is do not believe everything you read in the newspapers.

[roblang]

Even if you signed something there should be a 'cooling' off period whereby you can cancel it. I would go and talk to the manager (if he/she's any use) and put your case forward. If all fails I would cancel the order and go elsewhere as per GMcL. You may need to do some things formally to get your £500 deposit back but as they messed up then you should have a pretty good case.

You do not get a cooling off period when the agreement is made on company premises. You are right however if the dealer has indeed documented a mistake then you should have a case.

[XC60Monkey]

Thanks everybody for the advice so far. To answer the questions above - I wanted to borrow 10K against the total price of 25K. My credit rating is outstanding - just checked with the agencies. I only agreed to do the financing in order to get the £1000 contribution as I am in a position to pay cash. I've signed an order for the car (with explicit line item of £1000 financing discount), but have not signed any financing agreement.

The suggestion of being able to pay off the financing within 1-2 months sounds ideal although surely there would be financial penalties. I've been unable to get any formal T&Cs or draft contract from the dealer to verify what those penalties would be. If I could pay off straight away at no cost, my problem is solved. Do people think this would be possible?

Thanks again!

[roblang]

Thanks everybody for the advice so far. To answer the questions above - I wanted to borrow 10K against the total price of 25K. My credit rating is outstanding - just checked with the agencies. I only agreed to do the financing in order to get the £1000 contribution as I am in a position to pay cash. I've signed an order for the car (with explicit line item of £1000 financing discount), but have not signed any financing agreement.

The suggestion of being able to pay off the financing within 1-2 months sounds ideal although surely there would be financial penalties. I've been unable to get any formal T&Cs or draft contract from the dealer to verify what those penalties would be. If I could pay off straight away at no cost, my problem is solved. Do people think this would be possible?

Thanks again!

Consider your problem solved, the minimum borrowing is £7500, you can pay off at any time after you have made payment 1. The penalty for settling is one months interest, also don't forget you will pay £125 with the first payment as a set up fee + £95 at settlement as per the agreement. be fair to the dealer though if you are going to do this tell them, otherwise anything they make out of the finance will be reclaimed at a later date unless you can keep the arrangement for 5 months even if you make 5 payments which I would urge you to do you will still be much better off. If you ask for T&C's there are none, these are just the rules of Hire Purchase and the Credit Consumer Act.

[JackRussel]

The minimum borrowing is £7000. This is the amount I have agreed to borrow and I intend to pay off the balance after making 1 payment. Apparently there is no comeback on the £1000 deposit contribution.

Tim ( Nice but Dim ) looked into this in more detail and is intending to do the same. Hopefully he will be along shortly with more details.

[XC60Monkey]

The minimum borrowing is £7000. This is the amount I have agreed to borrow and I intend to pay off the balance after making 1 payment. Apparently there is no comeback on the £1000 deposit contribution.

Tim ( Nice but Dim ) looked into this in more detail and is intending to do the same. Hopefully he will be along shortly with more details.


I was suspicious that they would go after the £1000 - if that not the case then indeed my problem is solved - thanks very much all! How do we know for certain they cant go after the £1000 - if I was making that offer, I'd put a clawback provision in the contract.

[roblang]

I was suspicious that they would go after the £1000 - if that not the case then indeed my problem is solved - thanks very much all! How do we know for certain they cant go after the £1000 - if I was making that offer, I'd put a clawback provision in the contract.

You will just have to trust me. But please tell your dealer what you are doing!

[roblang]

All you lot are buying cars but not from me!!!!

[XC60Monkey]

All you lot are buying cars but not from me!!!!

sorry - Colchester is a bit far - otherwise would be a breath of fresh air to deal with someone straight up!

[GMcL]

THE CURRENT CLIMATE:

8<...

Cars are in fact flying out of the showroom, trust me we are having the best time of it at the moment. having just had the best 1st qtr performance in my 10 years experience as a dealer and a 2nd qtr with a performance already complete the numbers speak from themselves and I can assure you we are not alone in this. Scrappage is then incremental to this.... The message is do not believe everything you read in the newspapers.

Volvo traditionally do well when a new model is out. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the sales figures you have, XC60 sales vs S80, V70, and non DRIVe S40/V50 models.

I don't believe everything I read in the papers, the SMMT figures speak for themselves:
· New car registrations fell 24.8% in May to 134,858 units

· Scrappage scheme brings orders, but it will take time to translate into registrations

· Registrations over first five months of 2009 down 289,598 units or 27.9%

Source: SMMT 04062009 (http://www.smmt.co.uk/articles/article.cfm?articleid=19719)

[roblang]

Volvo traditionally do well when a new model is out. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the sales figures you have, XC60 sales vs S80, V70, and non DRIVe S40/V50 models.

I don't believe everything I read in the papers, the SMMT figures speak for themselves:
· New car registrations fell 24.8% in May to 134,858 units

· Scrappage scheme brings orders, but it will take time to translate into registrations

· Registrations over first five months of 2009 down 289,598 units or 27.9%
Source: SMMT 04062009 (http://www.smmt.co.uk/articles/article.cfm?articleid=19719)

Absoloutly but these figures do not tell the whole story, look £ for £ at last years performance vs this year and we are making more money, this is due to used cars coming to us cheaper and cheaper, essentially we are able to trade on this economic slowdown when offering values and people believe it. therefore big mark ups on used cars. Also cars that we valued 3 months ago agains't factory orders are on the rise XC90 £1500, £600, £700 & £600 over the last 4 months.

Although Volvo are still down on registrations they are far outperforming the market trend, largely because of new product offerings, but also without the assistance of pre registrations, I am sure if we were pre registering like we used to then these figures would be hugely different.
This is what the SMMT do not tell you.

[XC60Monkey]

so do others agree I should be able to pay off after 1 month with no comeback on the deposit contribution?

[GMcL]

Absoloutly but these figures do not tell the whole story, look £ for £ at last years performance vs this year and we are making more money, this is due to used cars coming to us cheaper and cheaper, essentially we are able to trade on this economic slowdown when offering values and people believe it. therefore big mark ups on used cars. Also cars that we valued 3 months ago agains't factory orders are on the rise XC90 £1500, £600, £700 & £600 over the last 4 months.

Although Volvo are still down on registrations they are far outperforming the market trend, largely because of new product offerings, but also without the assistance of pre registrations, I am sure if we were pre registering like we used to then these figures would be hugely different.
This is what the SMMT do not tell you.

Surely the reason you are not pre-reg'ing like you used to is because the demand is not there. The manufacturers realise this and this is the reason Honda closed for four months, many other production line workers are on reduced hours etc... The over capacity is being managed, although some may say a little late, and removed from the system.
Bad news for me as I normally buy at two and sell at seven.
Trying to get a used car in the spec I want in two years time is going to be expensive and may push me into something newer or, depending how the current car is going, may make me hang on for another year or two.

[JackRussel]

Absoloutly but these figures do not tell the whole story, look £ for £ at last years performance vs this year and we are making more money, this is due to used cars coming to us cheaper and cheaper, essentially we are able to trade on this economic slowdown when offering values and people believe it. therefore big mark ups on used cars. Also cars that we valued 3 months ago agains't factory orders are on the rise XC90 £1500, £600, £700 & £600 over the last 4 months.

Although Volvo are still down on registrations they are far outperforming the market trend, largely because of new product offerings, but also without the assistance of pre registrations, I am sure if we were pre registering like we used to then these figures would be hugely different.
This is what the SMMT do not tell you.

Rob, are you saying the value of an XC90 has risen by around £3400 over the last 4 months ?

[roblang]

Rob, are you saying the value of an XC90 has risen by around £3400 over the last 4 months ?

In the right spec yes.

[tt82]

I have read that prices have gone up recently, never imagined it would be that much though

[JackRussel]

In the right spec yes.

What would that be ?

Must renegotiate my trade-in price !

[roblang]

What would that be ?

Must renegotiate my trade-in price !

What is the spec of yours, and what value have they offered you?

[JackRussel]

Hi Rob, PM sent. Any advice greatly appreciated.

[X90 LVO]

I posted the note below on another thread yesterday, but it is equally valid here, and thought others might welcome the contribution. Rob Lang gives so willingly of his advice. He is a breath of fresh air. Give him the opportunity to supply your next Volvo and, from my personal experience, you won't be disappointed.



I realise this thread has perhaps come to an end, but I just wanted to feedback to those who have contributed previously (and will also comment appropriately on other threads to let as many folk benefit as possible).

From the comments made on this thread, I got in touch with Rob Lang at Lookers in Colchester and am just off the phone having paid the deposit on a new vehicle order.

Having been in touch with a number of dealers around the country over the last few weeks, I can say quite categorically that in my experience Rob is second to none. Not only is his customer service exemplary, but the sound advice and assistance that he offers is invaluable ..... and is given without pushing the sale.

To anyone who is contemplating purchasing a Volvo, I would urge you to speak to Rob Lang in Colchester. Gone are the days of restricting yourself just to the dealership in your own town or city. I am in Edinburgh and will be delighted to head to Essex in some weeks to meet Rob and collect my new car.

Oh, and did I mention that Rob will aim to give you a fantastic deal ? He didn't quite match drivethedeal (it was very close !) but I much preferred to leave something in the deal so that buyer and seller are content and to recognise the fantastic service from Rob.

Trust me ... you won't regret it. [email]RobLang@lookers.co.uk

[WoodyWP]

You do not get a cooling off period when the agreement is made on company premises. You are right however if the dealer has indeed documented a mistake then you should have a case.

Rob, it may not be called a 'cooling off period' but any financial transaction you have the right (not sure this is the right word) to cancel. You will incur costs etc.... which may not make it practical though. Unless you mean the order form in which case, yes you are right as the order and the finance agreement are 2 seperate things.

Just to add, you have added loads of good advice on the post since, so hats off to you.

[4wheeldriver]

Rob, are you saying the value of an XC90 has risen by around £3400 over the last 4 months ?


Thats not bad when I got offered 22,500 on a 58 plate on a buy back deal due to "currebt market conditions" which rose slightly but not much. Eventually got 28,000 just to get rid of the bag of spanners. Still smarts being sold a lemon and having to bite the bullet to the tune of several thousand just to feel safe driving again!!!

Funnily enough that was a London dealer too..........................

[Laney760]

Rob, it may not be called a 'cooling off period' but any financial transaction you have the right (not sure this is the right word) to cancel. You will incur costs etc.... which may not make it practical though. Unless you mean the order form in which case, yes you are right as the order and the finance agreement are 2 seperate things.

Just to add, you have added loads of good advice on the post since, so hats off to you.

I've just read in 'What Consumer Co UK' that when buying a new car:


There is no cooling off period with sales which were carried out face to face in this way. The buyer has signed a legally binding contract and paid a deposit which is recognised in law as an undertaking or intention in good faith. Therefore by attempting to rescind the contract, the seller has no obligation to return the deposit and could even chase the buyer for the remainder of the cost of the car. The only way the buyer could rescind the contract and get back their deposit was if they felt they were misold, or were not in possession of the all of the facts so as to make an informed decision

[roblang]

I've just read in 'What Consumer Co UK' that when buying a new car:


There is no cooling off period with sales which were carried out face to face in this way. The buyer has signed a legally binding contract and paid a deposit which is recognised in law as an undertaking or intention in good faith. Therefore by attempting to rescind the contract, the seller has no obligation to return the deposit and could even chase the buyer for the remainder of the cost of the car. The only way the buyer could rescind the contract and get back their deposit was if they felt they were misold, or were not in possession of the all of the facts so as to make an informed decision

This is correct, the very act of leaving a deposit is legally binding but nobody would chase you for a return of deposit without a signed order. unless it was a contract hire deal!