Amazon: - Big Hissy Fit - All toys thrown out of pram! [Archive]

twinbeech

Jul 1st, 2009, 22:02

I'm really peed off. I got a new shock for my front right side and wanted to change it over this evening as I'm sick of the terrible rattle and vibration coming from the old one.

But...

I couldn't get the old one off. The squared off top spun in the spanner while I tried to turn the top nut. No luck. Likewise on the bottom plate nut. I've squeezed rust killer stuff on it, but I'm not a happy bunny at all. A totally wasted hour and a half.

Please offer me a magic wand on this one. I'm obviously using the wrong tools and wrong techniques and desperately need to get this 'simple' job done.

Thanks in advance,

Dom

ClassicVolvoShop

Jul 1st, 2009, 22:07

Ehhh... ??.. Anglegrinder?..

And.. Ehhh... only changing one side??..

Well, if you bought the shock at an honest dealer, you should have got the rubber grommets and washers too - so why waste time on "saving" the old ones?... Cut the thing off!

But.. Please do it tomorrow - when you have cooled off a bit - driving 30-40 year old cars does give a little hard work sometimes - no need to throw with things.. :-)

222s

Jul 1st, 2009, 22:56

"rattle & vibration" - are you sure it's the shock and not just the shock bushes? They can sound surprisingly scary if the bush is knackered....

twinbeech

Jul 2nd, 2009, 09:41

222,

You're exactly right, the bushes are mushed to nothing which means the shock has loads of room to move about and make all the noise. I'm pretty sure the damper itself is fine, but I've got a new one anyway, and besides, it's rusted in place good and solid. Also the bottom plate nut is imovable too - I really want to do the job myself, but should I just take it to a garage and get them to swap them over? I don't have many tools and perhaps that's my problem - no angle grinder - it that the way to get an old shock off?

Finally, I was only going to do the one side as the other is fine, does it make such a difference if I don't change them in pairs?

Thanks,

Dom

stevo48

Jul 2nd, 2009, 09:47

Regards changing the shock on one side, if you are using a new shock it will be stiffer and will "damp" a lot better than the old shock effectively causing an imbalance to the steering and braking.

Quarterless

Jul 2nd, 2009, 14:05

I had the same issue with sheared bolts. Angle grinder or hacksaw all the way!

jakobandhismakarov

Jul 2nd, 2009, 18:31

dheming

Jul 3rd, 2009, 04:00

In this situation I've had luck with clamping vise-grips on the squared-off shaft end. If it's rounded over badly you can file it flatter to get a better grip.

twinbeech

Jul 3rd, 2009, 12:24

Thanks for the replies - it looks to be a common problem, so I guess I'm not the only one who's sworn a little whilst sitting facing a mucky upper wishbone covered in grime! I'm still doing my daily 70 miles with all the knocks and bangs until tomorrow when I can try it again. I'll put some more rust release on it today and see if that works, I guess I could also try heating it, but the brake pipe's pretty close.

What solutions have people had with the bolt holding the bottom plate on as well? Mine's good and stuck.

Ron Kwas

Jul 3rd, 2009, 13:02

tb;

Using a spanner (open end wrench) on any nut which is likely rusted to some extent is poor practice...spanner only engages two faces, and will slip and round off two corners quickly as you found out (especially on hardware on suspension which is under constant rust attack and likely undersized because of it)...as a rule, I always will try to use a socket or box wrench which engages all six faces if I can...even on brake fittings...yes, "flare-nut wrenches", shown here:
http://clunkbucket.com/wp-content/uploads/flare_nut_lead-300x224.jpg[Source: http://clunkbucket.com/tool-of-the-week-flare-nut-wrench/ ...which was the 9th of 9,000,000!!! hits when I searched on: Brake Fitting Wrench ]
...even allow for engaging 5 of 6 faces on hardware which one can't get directly at the end of.

I agree with other posters: Unless being replaced for a failure other than wearout, dampers should only be replaced in pairs (can you even buy them singularly?)...and in addition, use of penetratin oil before and during removal, and graphite bearing grease upon reassembly will always help, but with stubborn damper hardware, which was already bunged, I'd probably cut the darn thing off...old damper ist waste anyway...oh, the joys of vintage vehicle ownership...

Cheers

twinbeech

Jul 3rd, 2009, 13:13

I've just had a look for Flare Nut Wrenches (or Spanners as well Brits call'em), and they seem to be the tool to get. Ron's wisdom prevails again!

I think I need a 13mm for the nut...?

ClassicVolvoShop

Jul 3rd, 2009, 13:39

What solutions have people had with the bolt holding the bottom plate on as well? Mine's good and stuck.

Hmmm.. Does that mean, that you only have ONE bolt holding the shock anchorage-plate?.. If so - you got the old style lower A-frame - not a problem - it's just that the anchorage plate is very different and a good-rusted A-frame + anchorage plate is very likely..

Again: No need to waste energy - cut off the bolt and drill out the bolt in the A-frame - replace completely with suitable bolt.

http://stage.catalogue.gcp.cust.bluerange.se/catalogue/Amazon/B18/Section_6_page_3.gif

Both types of shock anchorage plates a reproduced today and not expensive.
Beware of severe rust arround the spring-cup and anchor-plate-hole on the A-frame.

What yearmodel is your car?

twinbeech

Jul 3rd, 2009, 14:24

Model 122S 1963. I'm pretty sure it's a single bolt job, but need to double check later. By A frame do you mean the lower wishbone?

twinbeech

Jul 3rd, 2009, 14:27

ClassicVolvoShop

Jul 3rd, 2009, 14:46

Model 122S 1963. I'm pretty sure it's a single bolt job, but need to double check later. By A frame do you mean the lower wishbone?

Yes - wishbone..

Well, I don't mean to make you more sad than you allready are - but please do yourself the SAFETY-favor of going through the front axle very thorough!

It could very well be, that your car has never got parts changed on the front axle - and here in our part of the World - things tend to rust A LOT - and 1963 is way back then... so +40 years old front axle - I wish you the best, but please do NOT overlook and do NOT underestimate rust.. it has had a long time to eat through the parts.

Again: Do NOT neglect - even if things turn out very bad - driving 70 miles everyday in a 1963 120 is fun and brings a lot of driving-happiness - but I feel I need to say, that Volvo's are strong reliable and easy cars - but a rust-broken wishbone - even at just 35 mph - kills.

Don't worry about having only the street as a garage/shop! That's not the problem - being prepared to pay what it takes to keep a 1963 120 going strong might!..

twinbeech

Jul 3rd, 2009, 14:54

Having removed the wheel the other day to begin this job I realised that the top wishbone was caked in mud and road debris from years ag I'm sure. Somewhere in there was a greese nipple too!

I fully intend to clean everything up and take a good look, but bear in mind I have little knowledge of most things, so won't be able to tell much unless it is screaming out at me. I'll take some pics and post them on here and see what you think. I guess worst case scenario is replacement parts...apart from wishbones, is there anything else I should look at? Also, what's the cost of 'em?

ClassicVolvoShop

Jul 3rd, 2009, 15:09

Well follow this:

- Totally clean up complete front axle from mud/sand/lose dirt etc. etc. - a high pressure wash = superb!

- Do NOT be afraid to give the wishbones and other components a VERY good bang here and there (everywhere!) with a hammer - this is not for fun - but to check how rusty things are - rusted metal has NO strenght, so it does NO good there anyway.

- Be VERY thorough on inspecting upper/lower wishbones, cross member and all other parts - wishbones can have cracks in the metal - and you CAN NOT see them unless you clean away lose rust and dirt. Especially check the lower ones all arround the cup for the spring and arround the lower ball joint.

Don't mind your mechanical skills - it's your common sense that's important here - do not tolerate something that you think is not good - even if you have driven the car lots of miles many days now. If you are in daubt - post pictures! :)

twinbeech

Jul 3rd, 2009, 15:13

Thank you for the advice, I really DO appreciate it.

I'll set to work this weekend and get soem before and after shots on here too.

Very kind regards,

Dom

Alf ista

Jul 3rd, 2009, 15:38

Forgot to say, and this will probably put pay to what I can achieve on my own, that I have no facilities what-so-ever, what I do I have to do literally 'on the road'. The best investment made so far was a trolley jack to take over from the Ford Transit scissor type I got with the car - what a pain that was, blisters evertime I used the darn thing!

Best of luck with this Twinbeech. You probably know this but just in case..... Dont just rely on the trolley jack when working under the car. (or any jack for that matter) Make sure you have something else holding up the car as well. Axle stands are great, but if you dont have them, even a few blocks. Anything as long as it comes down on them and not your head!
Will watch with interest, dont forget the pics. Hugh.

twinbeech

Jul 3rd, 2009, 15:50

Hugh, you're right. I was given a set of axle stands the other day...discovered that with an Amazon on them they sink into asphalt really nicely!!!!!!

Alf ista

Jul 3rd, 2009, 18:29

Hugh, you're right. I was given a set of axle stands the other day...discovered that with an Amazon on them they sink into asphalt really nicely!!!!!!

Excellent! Thats all the good quality Swedish steel doing that...!

93240se

Jul 3rd, 2009, 18:48

Hugh, you're right. I was given a set of axle stands the other day...discovered that with an Amazon on them they sink into asphalt really nicely!!!!!!

Good luck with the roadside repairs! From a safety point of view I always use square pieces of 3/4 " ply wood under my axle stands, the bigger the better. It's surprising how unstable stands can become when only one leg sinks into tarmac or gravel.

Regards, Richard. VOC 3801

Derek UK

Jul 3rd, 2009, 19:59

I've just had a look for Flare Nut Wrenches (or Spanners as well Brits call'em), and they seem to be the tool to get. Ron's wisdom prevails again!

I think I need a 13mm for the nut...?

These sorts of spanners are for working on things like brake pipes when you can't use a ring spanner but want to grip as much of the nut as possible. Not needed or indeed best for this job.
As has been said, the single lower bolt may be difficult but a well fitting socket might do the trick. Lots of pentrating oil here too. A few good smacks upwards with a drift and hammer might help break the rust bond. If the head shears off it will realease the plate and you'll be able to drop the shock out. Drill out the rest of the bolt.
I would do the lower bolt before getting the hacksaw to the upper damper shaft. One you've cut the top off it won't be a good idea to try and drive it but but once you've done the bottom one you can do the easy top one.
Work safe!!!!

twinbeech

Jul 3rd, 2009, 20:19

I will be safe, I try to think about safety as much as possible, and hope not to do something stupid that I've overlooked, so thanks for the advice.

I've taken a couple of quick pictures this evening to show you what it looks like...

If all is solid, perhaps a wire brush followed by some chassis paint do you think?

twinbeech

Jul 3rd, 2009, 20:26

Here are the pictures

ClassicVolvoShop

Jul 3rd, 2009, 20:42

Whoooff.... I don't want/like to scare you - but with my experience, you should consider a very thorough clean up.. and following inspection of things.. That looks like untouched +40 years - and please believe me - it's a matter of safety, not visual show off or the like..

You need to hammer the parts completely free of lose rust - and prepare yourself for a near future with quite some expenses on your Volvo..

Mike Arnold

Jul 3rd, 2009, 20:48

Picked this thread up after it had moved on a bit.

If you have a siezed nut and cannot move it any other way then try heat. The exhaust monkeys use oxy-acetylene blowtorches to remove stiff exhaust bolts (and, boy, do they rust). A butane torch may help but be aware of heat damage around it.

classicswede

Jul 3rd, 2009, 21:59

Dom,

to stand any chance of undoing those bolts you are going to need flat sided sockets. (btw its 1/2 inch you need). Chances are things are going to shear. You also need tools ready for repairing threads etc.

My best recomendation for you would be to take a trip over to mine and I'd give you a hand with doing it. I've got all the tools and parts you could possibly need. You could also pick up the floor mat and have a look at the other bits you wanted at the same time.

Dai

twinbeech

Jul 3rd, 2009, 22:26

Dai, PM sent thanks

twinbeech

Jul 4th, 2009, 22:14

Well Folks, I gave it another go today, but no luck. The bottom bolt is well and truely seized and even a careful blast with a blow torch followed by a well-fitting socket did nothing. The head is slightly rounded so it's a hopeless situation. The top nut is probably as bad, but to be honest I've not given that as much time, as without the bottom one done first, it would make no difference anyway and only leave me with an undrivable car.

So the deal is this, I'm going to take it to a garage and get them to do it. I thought about drilling it out, but how on earth do you do that on the road with no clearance underneath? Hopefully it will just be the price of an hours labour.

Here are a couple of shots of the wishbone, before and after a degrease and clean. I gave it a good knocking all over and I think it's fine. It aint pretty, and needs to be taken off, properly cleaned and then rust-proofed etc - at which point it's probably sensible to just replace with new.

I'm guessing wishbones are expensive, so I'm in no rush to do anything about it - I have no funds and run on absolute basics as it is, so keeping it clean and keeping an eye on it is the order of the day.