Diagnosis: Rattle :(

[jakobandhismakarov]

Hello.

My Amazon appears to have developed a charming rattle sounding like someone rattling a bag of nuts and bolts around.

Video thus:

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w130/jessopjessop/th_MOV03554.jpg (http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w130/jessopjessop/?action=view&current=MOV03554.flv)

Checked all of the bracketry etc, can't see anything loose of amiss.

PLEASE tell me that this isn't the timing chain, I haven't much money left before RR 2009............... :(

[Derek UK]

I'm not going to say that it isn't the big timing gear (not a chain), that often sounds more like big ends. Try this, take of the fan belt, pop off the dizzy cap and see if the rotor lags behind when you turn the crank pulley by hand. Plugs out would make it easier. You can normally feel a fraction of play but if the metal "star" moulded into the fibre is coming loose you should be able to feel a lot more though it's a bit unpredictable. Also check how the water pump and dynamo sounds/feels when you try and spin them. Fingers crossed it's one of them.
Good luck.

[jakobandhismakarov]

Well, I do have some steel timing gears in stock :)

Got them muchos cheapo in the SKANDIX sale.

[ClassicVolvoShop]

I dare to say, that no daubt, that's the waterpump!

A doctor's instrument:

Grab a foot-long solid iron stick (and best thing is: You allready have it - Yes, the oil dip stick) - use it to hold it against the suspected parts and hold the other end directly to you ear.

Skilled listners, can pin point which of the main bearing that is worn.. ;)

A very rough sound-diagnose:
- Loose timing gear sounds like a diesel engine
- Waterpump sounds like a rattle (sort of random rattle)
- Dynamo/alternator sounds squeaking

Sell the steel timing gear!! - they are crap (imho).

[john h]

Useful tips above, thanks.


Sell the steel timing gear!! - they are crap (imho).

Interested to know why you say that.

My 164 has a steel timing gear (Volvo Penta) which the last owner had fitted because his previous 164 had a fibre timing gear fail on the autobahn. I would have thought this is a good upgrade.

Cheers

John

[ClassicVolvoShop]

John,

In a short answer - it's politics/taste/feel etc. I do not see any reason att all to use the steel gears - they are noisy, they are not meant for the daily driver-use of a B18/20/30 and they are more expensive than the fiber ones - and not the least: There's a reason they are fiber on standard engines. Steel gear is for high rev's like in rally driving, absolute no benefits for a show/daily/standard/hobby Volvo.

[john h]

OK thanks; I'll keep my steel gear because there will be some high speed runs to Germany when it's finished. On mine it is quiet, and anyway the supercharger noise will drown it out!

John

[jakobandhismakarov]

I dare to say, that no daubt, that's the waterpump!

A doctor's instrument:

Grab a foot-long solid iron stick (and best thing is: You allready have it - Yes, the oil dip stick) - use it to hold it against the suspected parts and hold the other end directly to you ear.

Skilled listners, can pin point which of the main bearing that is worn.. ;)

A very rough sound-diagnose:
- Loose timing gear sounds like a diesel engine
- Waterpump sounds like a rattle (sort of random rattle)
- Dynamo/alternator sounds squeaking

Sell the steel timing gear!! - they are crap (imho).

Soren, I've had water pumps go on cars of a similar age, and the noise the knackered bearings make is far coarser than the racket this one is making - it's far lighter for a start.

To me, a gubbed water pump sounds like someone building up phlegm in their mouth ready to spit, but never actually gobbing. Just building up gozz for the entire time the engine is running. This noise is drowned out when you give the engine some load. A water pump would be heard over the engine, surely?

[ClassicVolvoShop]

.... on cars of a similar age...


But not Volvo's! (?)...

Anyway - Sun should still be up over there - dip-stick to the ear and on the different possible sound-makers - and let's hear the result! :)

Try listen to:
- waterpump
- alternator/dynamo
- oilpump (how? - hold the stick against the very first part of the distributor housing - beware of misfires!!)
- front cover for the timing gears
- play arround - listen to different places on the engine..


>>WAITING<< -for sound describtions!

[1966 122s]

Dip stick sounds an excellent idea. I've used a cheap stetescope before... but distick probably better as you want a firm and accurate point of contact with the engine.

I'm not an expert.... but my fibre timing gears went last year. The noise sounded less metalic than your video and the knock was less frequent for the RPM than you viseo. Also the noise lessened as I revved the engine. I believe this was the large fibre gear straightening itself up as it spun at higher revs. It was factured off the centre metal star thing. Others might comment whether the noise vanishing at higher revs indicates it is the timing gear.

Metal versus fibre gear replacement was debated previously. I read the posts last year and got good advice on the forum. I fitted Metal and the "increased noise" is so little that I can not perceive it despite looking for it. Main downside was that I had difficulty getting the cam shaft gear off. I wound not have needed to change it if I were sticking to fibre. The cut of the teeth is different on the metal set hence the need to change both.

Use a torque wrench on the cam nut. Cast iron cam.... strong but brittle. It was my first time and ended up with the fractured end of the cam in my left hand as I slapped my forehead with my right hand / sighed deeply.