Law on lights!

[Alf ista]

I seem to remember a post on here a while back talking about the law in relation to red rear indicators and so on but I cant find it now. Can someone point me in the right direction. I know the early Amazons had red rear indicators. It dosent affect my later car but I am also involved in American classics and of course all of their rear lights are red. I am trying to find out how the law sees the situation. In Ireland, the law states that rear indicators must be amber, however am I right in thinking that European law sees it differently? And if this is the case does European law override Irish and indeed British law in this case? I would appreciate it if anyone has any knowledge on this and if they could let me know. I am researching it for the club I am involved with and this would be good info to have.
Thanks a million, Hugh.

[JP 1800]

As far as I am aware that paticular rule is for NCT purposes, and since your car is more than 30years old it is exempt.

[Alf ista]

Thanks JP, but the problem is really for the American cars. A friend of mine has a Corvette and it is over 30 years old so therefore not an NCT issue but he was pulled by the Gards over it. He was told he had to modify the rear lights which would be a problem for him due to originality and the look of the car and so on. I know amber lights are safer but a lot of vintage stuff does just fine with red lights and they dont do too much mileage any way. So, basically if anyone has any knowledge about the legal side of it I would appreciate it.

[JP 1800]

The best bet is to do a search in the statute book for the road traffic act of 1961 and 2002. A bit of work online though

[Alf ista]

Yeah, I have found the Irish bit, its the European one I would like to check. And then I will find out which overwrites which...

[222s]

For stuff like traffic regs, I think you'll find that your local laws take priority over Euro regs. For the UK, I think the cut off for such things as indicator colours is about 1965, bit not sure about Eire.

[agent_strangelove]

I don't know what the Corvettes did in terms of different items for exported cars but amber lens in rear light assemblies were not legal in this country till '68. I really doubt that corvette would produce special lens for the export cars as it had to be very few (if any) were specific export cars.

A neighbor of mine has a '48 Ford police car. It's all original with the blue light on the roof etc. He gets pulled over fairly often when traveling out side of the area. The local cops know him and don't bother him. But in the car he keeps a letter from the state police commander stating that he volunteers his car for PR events, parades and such and that it's OK to have a blue light on the car. Most other police jurisdictions want the light covered and he keeps a canvas cover with him if they make a real stink.


Chris

[AidanC]

You've probably got some involvement with the following:

http://www.maac-ireland.com/

http://www.gascc.ie/

but if not, maybe they could help.

The main problem is that the opinion of a guard is not necessarily correct (anecdotally at least). Most ones that I see these days look far too young to work let alone be members of the force but that's just a symptom of my getting old. They're up to date on current legislation but their knowledge of past practice isn't good - there are stories of classic owners getting hassle for not displaying NCT discs even when exempt.

If you can track down an older, more relaxed guard, he may be able to point you in the right direction. Mind you, the last time that I did that, the response was "don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you".....

[Alf ista]

Thanks Aidan. Your spot on, actually I am the secretary of GAScc. A great club, growing all the time. I decided to research this as it would help out the members. Of course it would be of interest to anyone with a classic car with the older lights. I keep hearing different answers and I would like to tie it down once and for all. I wonder do the forum members on here from the continent know what the European law states about rear lights? Although I suppose it may be different for each state.

[classicswede]

The UK spec amazon's had all red rear lights upto the end of 64 so I would have said any car built before 1964 would be legal to have red rear lenses. I can check with my brother the exact situation regards UK MOT.

[Alf ista]

Thanks Classicswede, any advice appreciated. Hugh.

[Lucien]

The UK spec amazon's had all red rear lights upto the end of 64

Sorry if this is off-piste a bit!

ClassicSwede - how sure are you that Amazons had all red lights up to 1964? I have a 1962 Amazon, 2 owners before me and other than the original purchaser the car was only owned by Volvo who used it for advertising purposes in the 1980s. My car has the red / amber / white rear lights, although I guess they could have been "upgraded". I'll stick them back to red if that's how they were supposed to be.

Hugh - I'm enjoying your two-tone story. I'm doing something similar!

Cheers
Luc

[Amazonites]

we have a 1962 122s and the back lights are all red, personally i think they look better than red/orange.:thumbs_up:

[agent_strangelove]

The 6volt cars had all red lens in them. Those cars (b16) didn't have reverse lights thus there are only two bulbs (per side) back there.... I think they started installing the b18 in late '62 or early '63.


Chris

[ClassicVolvoShop]

Well... Rear lights on the Amazon/120's:

Model years:
1957-58 - All red - (3 bulbs - the extra was so called parking lights)

1959-62 - 2/4 door - all red - (2 bulbs)

1963-70 - 2/4 door (excl. US/North America) - orange(amber)/red/clear

1962-69 - Estates (excl. US/North America) - orange(amber)/red/clear

1963-68 - All models - US/North America - red/red/clear

If wanting to go all red - please remember/note that all red lenses are NOT just a matter of the lense, but also the complete rear light (incl. the rim/bezel/trim).

The B18 came with the 1962 year models

[Kevs Estate]

The cut off date for English registered cars is the 1st Sept 1965. Anything registered after, must have orange indicators. I know you still see some later American cars with red rear indicators, but they are not legal and sooner or later they will fail an MOT.

[classicswede]

A 64 registered car I have has all red lights fitted and would appear original (probably late registered). The opening for the lights is slightly different for the all red lamps but they can be interchanged.

You need matching lenses with back plates.

[Alf ista]

Hugh - I'm enjoying your two-tone story. I'm doing something similar!

Cheers
Luc

Thanks Luc. Even though i ended up with single tone, but it is nice and bright! If you are doing something similar, let us know what you are up to. Tis always nice seeing other peoples Amazons.

Well... Rear lights on the Amazon/120's:

Model years:
1957-58 - All red - (3 bulbs - the extra was so called parking lights)

1959-62 - 2/4 door - all red - (2 bulbs)

1963-70 - 2/4 door (excl. US/North America) - orange(amber)/red/clear

1962-69 - Estates (excl. US/North America) - orange(amber)/red/clear

1963-68 - All models - US/North America - red/red/clear

If wanting to go all red - please remember/note that all red lenses are NOT just a matter of the lense, but also the complete rear light (incl. the rim/bezel/trim).

The B18 came with the 1962 year models

Thanks for that Classicvolvo. I would be interested to know what the law states regarding lights in Denmark and indeed other continental countries if you know.

The cut off date for English registered cars is the 1st Sept 1965. Anything registered after, must have orange indicators. I know you still see some later American cars with red rear indicators, but they are not legal and sooner or later they will fail an MOT.

Thanks Kev. In Ireland we have an NCT (National car test), however vintage cars over 30 years old are exempt.... for now... So, thats not a problem, but a friend of mine in an American car got pulled over by the police over it. With this in mind and indeed all old cars I am trying to find out how the law works in this situation. In Ireland, like the UK, rear indicators have to be amber. What I am trying to find out is: how does European law see it, and if it was different would it override our own law on the issue. So far I havent been able to source what the European law, if any, states about it.
Hugh.

[222s]

Euro law wouldn't override local regs, especially on a locally registered vehicle. Challenging the local regs on the basis of differing Euro law would be very time consuming & expensive.

[charlotte001]

As far as I understand it it is not legal to have a red indicator in the UK.

[ClassicVolvoShop]

I would be interested to know what the law states regarding lights in Denmark and indeed other continental countries if you know.


Well, in Denmark it's basically so, that a vehicle goes through an approvement (not MOT like - but construction/meassurements/specifications/type designation etc.) before being allowed on the streets. What applied when this approvement was obtained - follows the car.
So - if a car was born with red lights - it's still legal.

Our MOT/safety inspection - is so, that the check of the car follows the approvement it was given back when introduced.

A little difficult to explain, but sort of floating - but basically: A 1962 Amazon is legal with red glas - a 1963 is not.

The same rule apply to Swedish cars - I think Norway is the same - as a matter of fact - I believe this is the most commond standard - I mean: If a car is born with all red (and in theory never had other options) - how can MOT/regulations demand other? Maybe you can be forced to do something to a NEW imported car (new meaning, not registered in your country before)..

[93240se]

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m3s01000501.htm

"that every direction indicator emits amber light, except vehicles first used before 1 September 1965 where both front indicators may be white and both rear indicators red "


Copied from the above web site so must be correct !

Having said that I am still thinking about changing my 1959 PV lenses from all red to red & amber, for reasons of better visibility, as no one these days seems to expect an older vehicle not to have bright orange flashing lights on it !

Regards, Richard VOC 3801

[jakobandhismakarov]

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w130/jessopjessop/DSC02464-1.jpg

I fitted some American lenses to my 121 before I had some work done, just for the stylistic craic.

In fact, you can see them fitted here, and my fine visage out of the window:

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w130/jessopjessop/n511800546_357252_2543-1.jpg

I sacked them off when I had half of Stoke try to crash into me because they hadn't seen me indicate. Never got any verbal off the babylon though.

I had heard that you could dodge this law by fitting a green bulb to the indicator so that your lenses would glow orange. But my local plod wouldn't be amused by this - they gave me a kicking the other night for having 'track day tyres' on my Citroen daily........*

*said tyres were Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3s (bless).

[Alf ista]

Spoke to my solicitor today and he tells me that a European law would take precidence over an Irish law if it were different. I imagine it would be the same for the UK, although you lot are a bit Euro Skeptical... lol.
Anyway, now to start googling European law and such like.