I really like the look of the F-Pace but I could only afford the 2.0 diesel and it's not a great engine. I had a Disco Sport for a day with the new 2.0 and it was sorely lacking performance. The mid range in particular was very weak and a D5 XC60 is far quicker. That means only the 3.0d is a viable option and as I said that is outside my budget for a mid size MPV. Jaguar need a mid range diesel as others have said.

The V6 F-Pace has a fuel tank capacity of 66litres, four litres shy of the XC60. I think the XC60 has a marvellous range even if the actual return is far lower than the optimistic official figures. The F-Pace tank and economy figures are okay, if not as stellar as the XC60.

The purpose of today is partly to identify the different versions of F-Pace that the two nearest dealers have as demonstrators. We already know from yesterday's call that the Edinburgh dealership has a 3.0d V6 S-diesel. The good news for us is that this variant comes with adaptive dampers as standard and so the car we would be buying would, dynamically, be almost identical to the demonstrator.

Finally the VW Touareg. I've been looking at these on and off since 2006 when we eventually bought our XC90 D5 SE. Sadly, they don't get my pulse racing as a proposition. I mentioned the Touareg to Mrs A and that conversation was over within 15secs! It is an accomplished car and one of our friends has a black, 2014, TDi V6 diesel. But it doesn't appeal visually and so, even though it will represent a better financial proposition at the outset and come with lots of toys, I can't find the enthusiasm to take time out to visit the VW dealer in Edinburgh.

Porsche, BMW, Jaguar and........VW. Doesn't quite do it for me?

But thanks Nigel for suggesting this at this juncture.

Arianne

A bloke I see occasionally has a Jag XF. I asked him what he thought of it and he replied, "I smile every time I look at the badge and start the engine". A VW badge just doesn't do that. To be fair neither does a Volvo badge for me. If you are going to spend £40k plus on a car you want it to make you smile. The Tourag may be a cracking car but it doesn't have the X factor that you need it to have, hence why the VAG group is made up of the full spectrum of cars and brands.

Thanks Harvey, that pretty well sums it up perfectly. We're off to the car showroom now!

Arianne

No problem. The beauty of this thread is that 'we' can challenge your thought processes and ensure no potential options are forgotten on the journey to your next car. It is also helping a few others looking to change in the next 12 months.

Interesting as I have had at least one of all of the main brands - Jag, Merc, BMW and Audi - and I like the VW because it doesnt have the image associated with some of the others.

And it is sometimes said (of the Golf) that it is a classless car - equally at home on the country estate as the housing estate.

I do not think it is an "engine" problem as such more a trim specification option. As I said earlier the Germans do virtually any engine with any trim specification.

You want a Jag F Pace with a V6? Well you can only have the S specification, for some that will hugely limit it's appeal as they may not want the more sporty version or the huge cost increase.

I must say in that respect Volvo are much better than Jaguar, however for Jag it is one way to reduce complexity and cost although limits the cars appeal in some circles.

I'm not sure my previous post on Ad Blue is correct. Reading up on it the Ad Blue is being used to convert the Nox into harmless chemicals. However the Ad Blue is extremely corrosive to paint and metal and the manufacturers say it will eventually eat through the DPF which will need to be replaced. Also any spills on the car must be removed immediately or it will eat through the paint and panels. It's not harmful to skin though. They use special dispensers that are screwed onto the car to avoid any drops being spilled during filling. Small Ad Blue tanks are being used to avoid increasing the weight of the car which impacts on the emissions test.

Here is a post about a mishap in the main dealer where a VW Toureg was overfilled and caused a problem. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-noticed-today

Additionally it eats through wiring just as nicely as metal panels.

The guy was given a replacement car in the end if you don't want to read all five pages.

This is typical of JLR. They 'force you' to go up the range to get specific options or engines. They obviously hope to tempt more cash out of you, but some buyers are simply put off by this. A few years back I tried to configure a Freelander and found I could not get the individual seat armrests without going up to (I think) HSE trim. You could not option them from the level below. As you say, the German marques are more flexible.

I had a C320 cdi Merc. Got to admit it gave a grin every time I drove it. Can't understand why they don't fit this engine into the GLC..

First experience of Jaguar F-Pace....
 

Dear All,

So if you're short of time and want to know what we thought of the F-Pace today, the answer is..... we put down a £1k, refundable deposit to secure our build slot. Refundable because we won't be able to drive it until 30 April.

If you have more time and are interested in the detail of our review, then here goes:

Exterior
I'll be brief here because you can see plenty of images yourselves on the internet. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder but..... Our impression is that the F-Pace takes SUV design forward by some margin. Gone is the boxy profile, replaced by a pretty sleek design from every angle. It's a big car, slotting between the XC60 / Q5 / X3 and larger full-sized SUVs such as the XC60, X5 and Cayenne.

In particular, we like the rear light cluster with its LED sculptured tail lights which I think will look fabulous at dusk or at night. The front is also great and all around Jaguar have embedded little embellishments such as a jaguar inside the light clusters etc. The V6 diesel S comes with twin rear exhaust tail pipes like my XC60 R-design and a faux-chrome rear diffuser / skid plate. We liked it very much.

Interior
Well it's in a different league from the XC60 and, bearing in mind that we spent most of our time inside the R-Sport version (from £37k), I would be worried if I was a rival manufacturer. It feel very, very special.

The front dash, centre stack & tunnel interior design is a fusion of existing Jaguar design from their other cars with a clear influence from my recollection of sitting inside the Porsche Macan. Think Macan but thoroughly modern, not old school. The R-Sport trim has a stitched faux leather skin across the whole of the front dashboard which looks so fetching on the inscription leather XC60, but is so expensive as an option in the Volvo.

The driving position is great, seats firm and comfortable. As AndyMcP has already said, they are chunky seats including the head restraints which again have more than a passing resemblance to those of the Porsche Macan.

We tried the infotainment system. It was the entry level unit and I was again very impressed by the touchscreen which is supplemented by a small number of buttons either side - a nice balance between screen & buttons for access to the key features. Intuitive and simple to use, including the SatNav.

Elsewhere in the front is standard piano black inset around the centre stack and front tunnel. It looks stunning but not after you have eaten crisps and dragged your finger across it! The centre cowls are standard analogue with a fully integrated central digital display which is a nice combination. The full TFT and wide screen central infotainment is even more stunning but comes at a significant price hike and, for us, the standard setup on the V6 S version is already great and includes the upgraded Meridian 380w, 11 speaker (incl. subwoofer) hifi system with 12 channels - that'll do!

The auto box is the fabulous ZF, eight speed unit that BMW also use to great effect, but remapped with Jaguar software. The control of the box is via the usual Jaguar dial that rises from the centre tunnel, just in front of the centre stack.

The car is dripping with USB and 12v sockets. In the boot and for rear seat passengers. It also acts as a wifi hotspot for up to six devices and promises better reception via an integrated aerial that they claim is 5x more effective than that in a typical mobile phone.

Keyless entry is standard across the range as is keyless start. You can use an app on your smartphone to start the car remotely and tell it how long you want it to warm up on cold mornings. If someone breaks in, the car shuts down as soon as the brake is applied to access the transmission. It also comes with a heated windscreen and front seats (we will also have rear heat too).

The boot is big although I have my doubts about the way Jaguar is measuring the volume. It's big, bigger than the XC60 and Macan but the figure quoted by Jaguar looks optimistic. It has a standard parcel shelf rather than sliding cover, reversible boot floor (rubber / carpet) and the temporary spare wheel will sit flush under the boot floor (full size steel wheel will cause a bulge).

Rear passengers are fine with more room than the XC60 and probably the best I have experienced unless one thinks about the full-size SUVs. The demonstrator had a full size panoramic roof which looks amazing but I won't b spending money on that option. Leather was of a good quality and clearly the issues with pre-production models has been resolved.

Weird & minor concerns
Here's a very weird thing. Lift the boot floor and you find the battery lurking in the deep central recess. No, that's not weird. It's the fact that there's a significant amount of completely wasted storage space around the battery which, if they had repositioned it a few centimetres, could have created a nice partitioned area for underfloor storage. Funny that!

The bottom of the doors, externally, have a plastic valance that feels very light and vulnerable. Same with the external edges of the trip along the bottom of the door windows which have a protruding edge which will need careful treatment, me thinks.

The cover for the central storage between the two front passengers has a loose feeling when being opened or shut. Not a show stopper but I would have designed it with a soft closing action or slightly stiffer hinges. The overhead storage for sunglasses is similar.

Jaguar persist with the electronic window buttons on the top of the door rather than on the more intuitive 3/4 up area.

The faux side vents on the front wings are light plastic on touch and the front blades on the front airdam on either side are not going to take kindly to a harsh roller wash machine or even close up pressure washer on narrow setting?

We spent most of our time crawling over the R-Sport version, silver with black pack, privacy glass, black alloys and red/black interior leather. I liked it very much and, if it had a better engine available then I would be very happy with that and a few extra options. But alas, the 2.0d Ingenium engine is all you get.

The dealer also had the 3.0d V6 S version in white and we took a look at this being valeted in the garage area. Looked good although I don't like it in white.

And finally they had a dark grey Portfolio version with ivory leather and I have to say that looked set for the slightly more traditional Jaguar customer, if you know what I mean.

Overall
This is a stunning looking car, inside and out. It will sell by the bucket load and both dealers we visited today are running out of build slots even before any car is out for test drive! It moves the whole SUV thing on, in the same way that we have already shifted from the 4x4 off road agricultural versions to the current generation. This is the third shift, bringing a new style while still delivering a hugely practical car for folk.

Compared to the BMW X4, no comparison. Compared to the Porsche Macan, the Jaguar is a thing of beauty but admittedly doesn't have the Porsche badge or probably rock solid residuals over time. And, believe me, those 2.0d versions retailing at £34k - £42k will be the most popular and will take sales away from regular D4 XC60s.

Jaguar are missing a mid-range power unit and price point in the range, that's their flaw and so they will lose some sales to BMW who have choices all through the engine range.

Dealer
Clelands Jaguar. A fabulous experience, twice today. We spent a good 90mins this morning crawling over the car and had it exclusively to ourselves, with the salesman available as and when we wanted. The hifi was activated for us, the electronics enabled and we drooled over those pretty rear lights and LED j-blade front DRLs. A 2hr unaccompanied test drive in the 3.0d V6 S version was offered on or after 18 April and on our local, twisty roads that I know like the back of my hand - but we can't fit it into our diaries until 30 April. Absolutely no pressure was applied. But my fear is that, once people start testing these things the orders will flood in and the build slots will be filled.

The Edinburgh Jaguar dealer told me that they only have three build slots left for 2016, crikey! But unlike Clelands, the Edinburgh dealer was impersonal and didn't even bother to take our name or contact details before we left. They had no idea we had travelled 35mls and we didn't get offered a cup of tea! It was dreadful and we could have walked out of there without anyone speaking to use despite having looked at their car inside the showroom for 20-30mins.

In a straight shoot out, it was clear that Clelands offer a personalised service and that they would win our business this time. With no discounts available we can choose the better service provided by our nearest dealer, and so it has proved to be.

So we went back in the late afternoon, after talking it through, and agreed a fully refundable £1k deposit to secure a commitment to 1 March 2017 delivery. Lock down won't be until late November so that's fine. If we don't like the car after the test drive then we can have our £1k back and, since it's Clelands and we've done business with them since 2006, you can trust them 100%.

Next stop is the test drive. Until then that's that. We will read the brochure, still an old school, comprehensive, glossy and lengthy paper version for the next two weeks and start thinking about colour, interior trim and a few options.

Almost there, maybe!

I hope you've found the write up useful. I've enjoyed typing it and we have had a very enjoyable day. Happy to answer any questions as best I can.

Arianne

Sounds very promising. Your write-ups are as good as any motoring journalist - with the addition of being totally honest - after all it is your money. I will miss the regular updates once you have signed the order.
Volvo should be worried. If the next XC60 is not 'brought up to date' (not that anything is fundamentally wrong with it) I can see many being tempted. I especially like the remote starting option, a personal bugbear of mine.
The key for JLR is to engineer the Ingenium up to 240bhp to bridge the gap. Whether Volvo will ever have anything to compete with the JLR and German 300bhp engines is another matter.

Great write up Arianne, and having read this thread in great detail from it's inception, as well as most/all your other threads, then not surprised to hear that someone who cares deeply about his cars loved the Jag, it really is a thing of beauty and seems to have the mechanicals to match.

I think the previous post about "the badge" summed it up, having a Jag with it's heritage, exclusivity ( for the moment at least ! ) and class does mean that bit more than "just another Audi, Merc, BMW"

I am sooooo jealous !!!

All you need now is to replace the family TT with an F-Type, and you're sorted ;-)

ps Colours, I think either the dark blue or red in the Autoexpress reviews both look fantastic
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/jaguar/...el-2016-review
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/jaguar/...uv-2016-review

Congratulations on your new car - must be a great relief to have finally made a decision. But how on earth are you going to wait 11 months??! Good grief, West Brom will probably be heading for the Championship by then!!? Don't think I could personally justify that sort of money but will be very interested to follow your story through to collection and first impressions. And then, just maybe...!

I'm not at all surprised at the outcome Arianne. We're it not for an inconveniently timed trip to Gothenburg that prevents Mrs McP from taking a look over the car, we'd no doubt also be £1k lighter and waiting in a test drive.

For a first stab at the SUV market, I have to doff my cap to Jag and what they have achieved. The extra time spent engineering it to take on the Macan appears to have paid off, according to the road tests I've read since the weekend.

Well done on your decision, I'm sure the car will deliver on expectations, and then Jaguar will have the excellent advocate that Volvo will be the poorer for losing.

Sounds very interesting Arianne. An issue for me is that it is more expensive than a new XC90 for the same spec. It does have the advantage of a full size spare wheel though. It came out £4.5 k more (£65,623)but for only five seats. But it did have the V6 Diesel which a review reckoned was the best one. It is a very nice looking car though. Not sure I would pay the extra for a smaller car than the XC90. It is faster 0-62 in 5.6 seconds so that is a consideration.

It is a very heavy car compared to the new XC90 being about 300kg more.

There is a review here....http://www.motoringresearch.com/car-...ew-first-drive

Did they give you any idea of how many miles to the gallon the Ad Blue does? I did a rough calculation based on figures on an Ad Blue manufacturers web site and I recon it would cost me about £15 for a trip to Livingston and back. That's about a 10% increase in fuel costs compared to my XC60 if that's how it translates with an actual car.

The Range Rover I owned had the 8 speed ZF gearbox and I thought it was really nice, quiet and seamless changes.

Which jogged my memory about the standard hifi. Its sound quality is okay but that's all it is. If you love clear, crisp music then the standard hifi won't do it for you. It has no graphic equaliser and simply offers you the opportunity to adjust the bass, treble and mid-range up or down. We did that as, to be honest, they are all normally set up on a flat line across all the frequency range and they all sound dull as a result - no matter how good they can be potentially.

When we adjusted the standard hifi it sounded better (no charge to the dealer for doing this for them) but it still sounded a bit muffled. I can only judge it against my Volvo's premium sound system with sub woofers in the boot. That is a nice setup and the Jaguar's standard kit got nowhere close to it.

The best I have heard was the Porsche Macan's Bose uprated unit which added on an extra £800, if my memory serves me correct. Not huge compared to the XC60 upgrade cost and, in the case of the Porsche, worth the money if it's available to be spent.

The diesel S comes with the uprated 380w system as standard. We will try this on 30 April and see what we're getting then.

Arianne

I forgot to say I was a bit underwhelmed by the interior options. Just 3 choices of colour none of which I really liked. It is the interior where the new XC90 trumps every other car I've seen so far.

Given how many exterior colours are on offer it seems a bit of an omission to me.

Jaguar do a five year service pack which includes a contribution of up to £700 approx. for any MOT related costs incurred at the third, fourth and fifth anniversary. I read somewhere that this pack also includes 'free' AdBlue top ups at any Jaguar dealership for the period of the service pack but this is not mentioned on the website configurator. I have yet to check this with my dealer - it sounds almost too good to be true, and you know what they say!

Thanks for the hyperlink to the review. There's been lots of them in the last week, all from Montenegro. Clearly all the journalists were invited across. Your link is to a very detailed and complimentary one though!

The interior colour combination choices...... Roy, I think you're right. It's a bit limited, 'tis true.

And finally, for tonight..... it's been great contributing to the vibrancy of this forum and I hope to do so for a long time to come. I will enjoy the last year of my XC60. The 20" wheels will go on at the end of April and she'll look fabulous again. We have the upcoming adventure of the sale of our pampered sweetheart in early 2017 so that there's still a bit of Volvo warranty to reassure the potential owner - I will try to sell her privately as I have done with all of our previous cars. And I will honestly and faithfully tell the story of the Jaguar journey too.

My prediction is, to be completely honest, that all that fancy IT software looks like a new home for turtle like beasties. But the dealer is nearby and the warranty will look after this stuff, as it comes!

Arianne

Stop Press: Just checked the Service Pack small print and...... AdBlue is included for the period of the SP pack plan. Fab! I'm buying the Service Pack then!

I can only speak about the GLC and Mercedes says 1 litre is good for around 625 miles. The car comes with a 27 litre tank so you need to fill it up every 17000 miles or so and you can do it at the pump in some petrol stations for around £25.

Regarding the GLC I only had it for a week but so far it has exceeded all my expectations by a huge margin. I loved my MY12 XC60 D5 Geartronic but the GLC plays in another league. It's quite a few rungs above the Volvo in every department. And the Burmester sound system is awesome.

Yes I thought the service pack was well worth having and I had included that.

I have no idea how much Jaguar main dealers charge for work. Hopefully not the ridiculous prices LR charge or that would probably kill it straight away for me. It is a very attractive proposition without knowing the full details though.

Good news that it includes the AD Blue but you won't get much Ad Blue out of it as the tank is not that big and I'm guessing it will be needing a refill around every 4,000 miles. That's a huge guesstimate though. Certainly won't go from service to service unless you don't use the car much.

I'm looking forward to your test drive. I'll be in Scotland the weeks you couldn't do your test drive. Wonder if they'll let me have a test drive for your original slot or thereabouts?

Wow that is massive! The tank sizes I've heard quoted were 4 to six litres. Must say I would prefer it if it was part of the servicing as I don't fancy handling the stuff myself as it sounds a bit of a fiddle to get it in without spilling it. The info on consumption I had was for the higher rates of use in the newest engines. Mercedes are being sued though over it's emissions using Ad Blue in the USA. See below.

AdBlue tank capacity is 17ltrs on F Pace.

Thanks Arianne. About every 5 to 6,000 miles then if it's like the Touareq.

Arianne. What is the rear visibility like?? That rear window looks evoque styled !!

The Jaguar configurator is very 'seductive'. I need to do a proper comparison, but the pricing does seem to be a notch above the XC60 (and a double notch with no discounts at launch).
One thing did puzzle me. The 180PS RWD manual is slower than the AWD manual.
8.5 sec / 121 mph vs. 8.2 sec / 130 mph.
Something suggests they have electronically controlled (muted) the RWD so to give the AWD the 'performance edge'.
Or the data is wrong.

Marginally off topic, but, I note you say there is remote starting for the F-pace.

There is discussion elsewhere on this forum that remote starting is available on the Volvo throughout Europe, but not in this country because it is illegal ?

If this is the case, how can Jaguar provide it ?

I notice you note that it shuts itself off, but if it's that simple, surely Volvo could have done the same ?

Surprisingly good Crockers!

I was expecting something poor because, as you say, the external appearance of the rear tailgate window leads one to conclude that the rear visibility will be dreadful. But it isn't. Bear in mind that the BMW X4 is like a letterbox to peer through and that was my last test drive!

This reminds me that the V6 diesel comes with rear view parking camera as standard as well as the usual front & rear bleepers. And blind spot mirrors and lane assist are also standard - not that I would have selected either of these from the options list myself.

And I also now remember that the read seat passengers get two USB ports and one 12v socket positioned in the rear of the central control tunnel. There's a 12v socket in the boot. And I think there's another in the central storage box along with an Aux input and further USB socket.

Regards, David

I don't know about the matter of legalities but it must be legal for Jaguar to have included it in their build here in the UK. But I remember the thread discussion because I was interested in buying an auxiliary heater myself, living as we do in Scotland (it gets cold here from time to time!).

It is very fancy though. The dealer showed me the App, how it worked and the security features. Jaguar can track the car in the same way that you can on your App. Unsure if that's a good thing unless it gets stolen but they have that emergency SOS thing like BMW - so if you crash it then the car calls for help automatically! That's why the dealer said none of the cars can go 'undercover' onto the road yet - because Jaguar would know!

The remote starting is something I am very pleased about.

On the other hand, I discovered last night examining the brochure that high-beam assist is only available by selecting LED headlamps. It's not standard on the V6 S version although active bi-xenon lights are standard fit on all but the entry level Prestige models.

Arianne

... so as I was finding out in my earlier post, the configurator is very seductive.
It's easy to get carried away ......
At the risk of staying the obvious, you need to find the 'sweet spot' of value options between now and the test drive - although I did read your comment that the order only becomes locked down in November. For example, as you have remote starting, perhaps the parking heater becomes expensive and irrelevant. Decisions, decisions.

Absolutely, the parking heater is not required because of the remote starting, the heated windscreen and heated seats all being standard. I will specify the rear heated seats and steering wheel though, quite a good value package. Arianne

Hi Arianne. In my spec I chose the heads up display assuming that I would be safe from a heated windscreen. Is that true or are they doing the heads up with a heated screen? I wouldn't be able to get one if there is no heated screen free option so I would change my plans for a test drive in a week or twos time if that were the case.

The heated front windscreen is standard on the Portfolio and S models. Entry level Prestige and the R-Sport versions have a normal windscreen, with the heated screen being an option. These latter versions are available only with the 2.0d Ingenium engine and not the bigger petrol or diesel units though. The options code is D96A for the heated screen and heated washer jets.

Hope that helps, got the information from the very detailed brochure.

Arianne

PS. I see in the brochure that the HUD option gives you an infra-red reflective windscreen but I don't know if that means the heated elements are no longer present. Why not try and configure the heated windscreen with HUD and see if there's a conflict alert? That might help and then you would know if you can delete the heated windscreen in the more powerful versions.

Yes you can select both options but if you look at the information on the heated screen it does not talk about the screen being heated, only the washer jets so I'm still not sure. It's only the wires in the screen I can't cope with. I guess I'll have to ask the dealer and see if they know. At least they do a wire free screen so it does present the possibility to get the screen changed at least but that would bump the cost up.

How bad is that for you?
I only ask as I briefly noticed mine the other day (on a rare sunny day across in Wales, the light catching it at a certain angle....although nothing I couldn't live with!).
In general I am *never* aware of them unless I focus on the windscreen (which would make driving a little dangerous for me!). Never heard of anyone being unable to live with them, and they are a magnificent feature during frosty or icy mornings!

I'm the same, never really notice my heated screen unless I look for the element wires.

I prefer the heated windscreen to a HUD.
But some confusion if both are possible with the Jag?

tem.

Too badly affected to use as a regular drive.

It seems strange the the 3.0 petrol is stated as 63 litres whereas the 3.0 diesel is stated as 66. Seems odd that? Range will be low with the petrol.The 2.0 is 60 litres, which is understandable and makes sense as it will be more economical.

Regards