Does the next car have to be an SUV?
Have you seen the new Alfa Giulia due at the end of this year?
3.0Bi-turbo with links to Ferrari, 500-ish horsepower, 600Nm, 0-62 3.9 and 190mph for £53k.
It's a bit of a looker too for a saloon.

At first sight, there has never been a better choice out there...F Pace, GLC, Macan, LR, X3, Q5, etc, etc, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty they all fall by the wayside for one reason or another. I hummed and ’arred for a year and shortlisted them all (well the BM and Merc derivatives I have owned before - still have the aching spine to prove it) and nothing came close to the deal for...another XC60...! Keep the faith guys!

11 months on from placing my order, the arrival of the GLC and the Discovery Sport has not changed my view that the XC60 is currently still the best-in-class for my requirements. It eats the motorway miles, romps up the steep hills we have locally, carries Mrs D in great comfort, and has been totally unfazed by the wild wet weather we have had this winter.
The Macan looks to be a fine car, but would cost "spec for spec" considerably more. Ditto the F-Pace, which has yet to hit the showrooms. Yes, the infotainment system is looking rather dated, but it works. Pity it was not given a proper makeover at the mid-life refresh. Just hoping the new XC60 builds on the current model. The premium competition is growing, and the new model has to ready to take on the new Q5 and X3 amongst others due shortly.

It's just that I have to wait patiently in the rain because, having opened the driver's door, the seat only then starts moving backwards from Mrs A's 'memory 2' position (jammed up against the steering wheel) to my position (way back on the rails). Only then can I get in, having moved the two shoes that have been kicked off and left in the footwell by the previous driver!

Question: why can't the seat start moving as soon as the 'memory' key has been used to unlock the car? Aagh!

Anyway, I guess they call this 'First World Problems' and we shouldn't really complain.

Tomorrow it's footie weekend rather than car testing weekend. Newcastle are at home to WBA and the lad & I have two tickets in the Baggies away section (which has been thoughtfully located 1/4mile away from the farthest goal, high up in a corner stand). We'll have some fun in the TT, just the two of us, heading along the A68 over Carter Bar.

Happy weekend folks, we made it through another winter working week. Mrs A is still mentioning the X4. They do a 35d which delivers 0-60mph in, wait for it, 5.2secs using launch control!!!! Really? Maybe...

Arianne

I asked the same question of Volvo several years ago when i had a v70 and the answer was - for safety (as we expect from Volvo).

They contended that when you unlock the car you are not beside it - I was using the same argument as your good self, therefore at a distance - and therefore you have no knowledge or visibility of anything behind or in front of the seat.

I can see their logic, but don't totally agree with it - meantime I will keep getting wet.

Have you considered Lexus (SUV)?
Alternatively not premium brand, Kia Sorrento? Drove one in the U.S. Really nice car with lots of kit, nice auto box etc.
Another option Jeep Grand Cherokee.
For me the XC90 sits in the best position between estate car and suv.
The P3 examples look fantastic and you could save a shed load of money.....

Macan second hand values
 

Auto Express have just taken a 15 plate Macan S Diesel onto their long term test fleet.

It has 6000 miles on the clock, and £14000 worth of options fitted, making a cost new of £58000!

Apparently this car has not lost any of it's value since new - the only tell tale sign of use is a small ding on the bonnet.

It will be interesting to see how they get on with it over the coming months.

In my view, it is not a good looking car though, and not one I would have on my list to replace my XC60.

We used to like the RX400h. I have a soft spot for petrol engines, we all liked the exterior look of the car and the depreciation on this particular petrol SUV wasn't too bad because of the Lexus brand (i.e. if you want a Lexus, and plenty of folk did, then it's a choice of petrol or...... petrol!). We also noted that Lexus dealers always score very highly in the AutoExpress annual awards.

But the brand's styling direction has gone awry for me and the lad, although Mrs A isn't as anti-Lexus as she is Porsche Macan. The interiors are also weird and, although unique, don't look classy anymore. Finally, the NX is purported to have wooden handling and the latest RX is a cruiser not a driver's machine.

We drove past the dealership at the Newbridge Luxury Car Village en-route to Eastern BMW last weekend. They had a few RX400's sitting outside but I didn't feel inclined to pop across and take a look - says it all really.

Kia's come a long way but that Sorrento, whilst being so much better than the model it replaced, is still a big, proper 4x4 SUV of the school of yesteryear (i.e. it reminds me of my old XC90's proposition). You're right though, it's fully loaded and much cheaper.

The Jeep..... nobody in our household is going to be tempted by this brand.

Finally, the XC90. Like you, I agree it's a nice car. And so do the magazines. I think it looks classy inside and out and it's grown on me since launch. But we no longer really need the 7-seat layout, all that space (which translates into weight and blunts the driving performance and thrill). In other circumstances I would be tempted by what is a very good Volvo although I remain unconvinced about Volvo's decision to drop 4cyl diesels into all the models. And in the Volvo's case, a T6 isn't an option as the fuel economy is dire once the battery pack has been exhausted (25 mile range, if I recall correctly).

But thank you for suggesting some options, it's quite fun kicking the choices around between us and, for me, is all part of the buying experience.


You see, this is why I thought the Macan might be a possibility. It's reputation for gravity defying residuals meant that the accountant within me calculated that it might be worth a punt and affordable.

I also read that AutoExpress article but I just can't believe it. The fact is that neither Porsche nor an independent finance provider are quoting residuals anything like that. The Porsche APR is frankly only suitable for those that don't understand the value of money (your next provider would be Wonga) and the independent has an APR of around 5% but the GMFV is lower so it all balances out in the end, albeit that if the Porsche is worth more at the end of the PCP then the independent provider's GMFV would be more beneficial for me. But then it starts getting too complicated and, with Jaguar, BMW, Audi and possibly even Volvo trying to get a slice of the niche sports utility vehicle segment in the next few years I think that those Porsche values might begin to soften. Who knows, it is a Porsche after all.

But I think that you need to love the car and not just the badge? We're struggling with that in respect of the Macan right now. And although the base Macan diesel S is coming in at £46.5k, by the time the 'necessary' options have been added, we're looking at around £53k. That wouldn't include SatNav or leather seats - options that might be considered essential at resale for a car in this price range? And the technology interface of the Porsche is from a bygone era with a 6" screen to remind you that it's of Windows XP generation. And we're talking zero discount on anything. Meanwhile, back at Eastern BMW we think we could negotiate hard and secure up to a 10% discount on the whole package. Residuals only matter on a PCP insofar as they relate to the GMFV since it's not us taking the risk of the resale figures at changeover time.

We are in the somewhat happy position that this next car can be an indulgence. We could choose to pay for the thing outright or contribute a hefty deposit, albeit that neither of us fancy making a huge withdrawal from the bank account for what is just a car. I am just into my 50s and we live in a part of the country where insurance costs are unbelievably low. The next one needs to look lovely (always in the eye of the beholder), behave like a pan-euro cruiser in the outside lane of an autobahn, drive like a sports coupe on the twisty rural roads of the Scottish Borders, have AWD for the alpine snow/traction to get all the power down, have a high SUV driving position and have the ability to traverse farm tracks with its better ground clearance than a normal car. Not much then ;)

The Porsche ticked most of the boxes but failed miserably in the 'looks' department - an essential for all of us, especially Mrs A. It's not rejected quite yet though. Our current, pampered XC60 will be sold privately as has been the case with all of our cars. They're first-class condition, full history and low-risk package means that every car we have ever marketed through eBay or Gumtree has sold within ten days - be it an eleven year old Peugeot 206 1.1LX, our Vectra with 120k on the clock or our last XC90 with 115k at eight years old. Part-ex doesn't work due to the dealer costs of turning the cars around and the adverse impact this has on their profit margin. Better to avoid all that and sell her myself.

So then, we're talking a Porsche Macan, Audi SQ5, BMW X4 35d M-sport or Jaguar F-pace V6. Unless Volvo start releasing details of the next XC60 and do something spectacular with the engine and suspension setup?

Off to the footie. Knowing Tony Pulis, it'll be 0-0 unless Newcastle play their usual crazy football this afternoon.

Best wishes.

Arianne

Honestly Porsche need to get with the times charging that much for a car to come with bi xenon headlights is madness! Heck their sister firm in Audi are strapping LED's as headlights!

As for not having sat nav on a 50K car you can get a 20-30K BMW with it standard!

Having bought my 640D GC now the engine (N57) is the same as the one you test drove in the X3 and is something to behold even though it is being replaced by the B57 starting in the new 7 series.

Only real issue to watch is the timing chain as the N57 is the famous N47 2.0D which suffers timing issues and the N57 simply has a few extra enhancements and two extra cylinders.

Quoted time for the 640D gran coupe about 2000kg all said and done is 5.4 seconds, crazy quick when you want it to be and calm and comfortable when you don't.

You mentioned March 2017 'plate' as your change-over date. Is this to avoid the new VED rates coming in April 2017 (with the extra penalty for cars over £40k) ?
The problem is that the new Q5, X3 and XC60 will be 'launched' over the next 12/18 months (???) which collides with your date, AND there is always the issue with new releases of (a) minimal discounts, (b) long waiting lists and (c) delayed arrival of test-drive stock into UK showrooms. Remember the 'worldwide launch' of the XC90 in September 2014 ? UK dealers did not get their stock in until (I think) May 2015, but many folk had already placed orders before even seeing it. Now most of us would never buy a car without a test drive, so you really have a difficult decision to take -- unless of course you could delay changing for a further 12 months.
Have you thought of a (current) XC60 D5 with ALL the option boxes ticked (including the Inscription leather) ? I reckon this would come in at less than £45k for cash. Old model, yes, but it would take some beating for 'go anywhere' and comfort.

..with of course Polestar optimisation for the extra driving thrill us 50+ blokes are nowadays needing...:thumbs_up:

Regards

We lost 1-0 :(

I'll take Brendon Rogers or David Moyes right now. Losing is one thing, losing and playing so badly in the first half is what is so awful. I feel sorry for those fans who travelled eight hours each way to see that!

I'm grieving.

Arianne

It's because I had to go out. Newcastle always do well when I'm not watching.
Stats showed 69%-31% possession split. Still, you had a nice run down the 68 then across Otterburn and through Ponteland passed the airport.

We did indeed. Parked at the P&R just after the airport and caught the Metro into the city centre. The lad drove up and I drove back. Sadly for me, it was dark and the roads were streaming with the heavy rain. But ultimately a good day if one ignores the score and performance. St James Park is a fabulous stadium.

Arianne

What you say is true. I was talking to my son today while we were driving across the border and he also mentioned the change to the Q5 and the conflict with my plans to change in March 17. As he said, the likelihood is that the design theme for the next Q5 will follow the front of the latest Q7 and I can't bear that.

I think we will pop along to a BMW dealer either in Edinburgh, Newcastle or Carlisle and test drive the X4 in either 30d or 35d M-sport spec. The trouble now is that we've just sent our two licences away for renewal so that's that for test drives until they come back! There is absolutely no way that I will buy a new car again without test driving the exact engine, gearbox and suspension setup. We only drove the D5 AWD XC60 before ordering the VEA version, basing our decision on the performance data. This is never the whole story. When I say we, I mean me! Mrs A has banned me from doing that again. She says she might not know much about cars, instead being heavily swayed by their looks, but she says she knows only a twot (or her husband) would order a new car without test driving it first. :(

once we have test driven the X4 I will report back. But it will be a few weeks yet.

Thanks again Nigel.

Arianne.

PS. A fully loaded current XC60 ticks some of the boxes but the geartronic box and suspension are not quite what I am seeking next time.

The new XC90 D5 weighs almost the same as the XC60 D5 and has the same 0-62 time thanks to the power to weight ratio so it feels very lively despite the size. It is a very big car though, not so noticeable driving on the road but it is when you come to park it, and of course it is more expensive than an XC60 sized car.

I can't think of another XC60 size car that is as good looking as the car you already have. Difficult choice.

I did drive both D4 and D5 versions of the XC60 and I thought the D4 was perfectly adequate but the sound and power of the D5 combined with AWD were just sublime and I just couldn't stop myself buying one.

Having also gone through the same decision making process that you undertook when I was in the market for a new SUV last Spring, a fully loaded D5 XC60 AWD with 4C & Polestar just ticked every box. Then with my VOC affinity discount and every other discount possible I ended up with c20% off a £55k car.
And have not looked back one iota.
Like myself, you & Mrs A must have a car that looks the part & feels in the bracket it is designed for. Also you have to love your car which when you where on this forum falling in love with your as yet unborn new car, I did several times have to stop myself from reminding you it was an untested engine as I could not bear to dampen your constant enthusiasm.
At least the new Shape XC60 in several years tine wil have a sorted engine by them............!
Regarding your other choices, I so loved the BMW 330/335 engines, they do sound the business.......but everything else about the car itself is so in your face - not for me.

Aye, we're just waiting for a team to deliver and fulfil the expectation (since 1969, the year I was born).
I took my son to his first game aged 9 in 2001 vs Liverpool on New Year's Day.
That free standing cantilever roof is the largest in Europe at 64.5 metres and build using the ash from the nearby Blyth Power Station (late 1990's, I worked for National Power at the time).

Must say it isn't bad living in Leicester these days ;-)
Especially when my boss is a season-ticket Gooner, two others in the team from ManU & two Scousers....it's a most entertaining season :D

For me, the Polestar transforms the Geartronic so much to the point of it feeling and driving like it's a totally different beast to the standard gearbox.

At least that's my experience from the boxes in the loan cars I've had when it's been at the Dealer.

My primary issue with the choices is the purchasing from new - it brings many cars into the equation that wouldn't get a look in from a financial perspective if you were to simply look at a 6-12 month old top-spec model (I never buy PCP, so residuals aren't in the calculation for me).

For example, when I was looking, my choice eventually came down to X3, XC60 and Touareg - I know the latter is much bigger than the other two, but I love the look of them and they have classy interiors (if a little boring, but I don't want a funfair when driving, I want function that looks good).

The problem I had was I wasn't considering brand new, I was looking at anything from 6-12 months, and at that age, the cheapest Touareg I could get with anything like a decent spec was £35k vs a new price (online broker) of £42k.

The cheapest X3 I could get was £34k (2 litre diesel, 3 litre was more like £38k) vs a new price (online broker) of £41k (mid £40s for the 3.0D).

Yes, the Touareg had the 3L V6 block (one of the reasons I like them, 550nm torque!), which would have been nice.

However, the XC60, unbelievably loaded (way more than either of the others), was £29k vs a new price (online broker) of £40k.

When I considered the value offered by Volvo, but the quality as well, the 5-pot thrum :), the ability to Polestar and maintain warranty, etc, etc. it just became a no-brainer.

For me anyway.

I think in your position, I would edge towards a new Audi SQ5 via a broker; there are some amazing deals out there.

If I understand the situation as it has been outlined, Arianne had a most unfortunate experience with his d4 and it's not surprising he is now looking to move on.
However, I doubt if a test drive in that car would have made any difference - none of the problems he later encountered could have been foreseen.
I have moved from an XC60 AWD to the new d4 and like many others on here have nothing but praise for it. The engine is indeed more efficient, quieter and less agricultural than the five-pot. If there are problems round the corner then that's as may be, but not all of the d4s are experiencing them.
Interestingly, since Arianne has floated the idea of the X4, I also now see it as one of the few cars that could tempt me next time. No question that the engine and drive would be superlative - just a matter of living with low profile tyres, restricted rear-end space, the quirky look, and, of course, that image!?! But maybe, just maybe...!

I think the issue with the XC60 and other 60 models is age. The XC60 is now 10 + years old. No one would pay anywhere near list for a decade old wagon. Fine vehicle as it may be, it cannot seriously compete with 'new' vehicles.

My own S60 was certified in 2007 according to the V5 yet did not appear in showrooms until 2010. These cars are well past their sell-bys.

Not long until the new XC60 though, which will have significant discounts again pretty quickly.

I don't agree. I looked at lots of other brands and Volvo are ahead of the curve. The AWD is the latest version that all the brands are using. Has radar BLIS, adjustable chassis, active cruise control, active headlights, city safety, driver support, speed dependant steering. Every comparable car I've looked at is well over £50k. And it has the nicest interior of the lot. They sold more last year than ever. I know mine uses a 6 speed auto box but I've never felt the need for 8 or 9 gears. My Range had 9 gears but I couldn't have told you how many either car had in practice unless I'd been told as you can't feel them change gear. How is the XC60 past it's sell by date when everyone is copying it? The generation 3 D5 is only 3 years old after all.

It's 10 years old.
You can polish away all you like but improvements must have been made elsewhere otherwise why are we not all still driving 240s ?

The 240 wasn't updated or updatable in the same way.

What do newer designs in the same sector have to offer that the XC60 doesn't? I'm sure that "improvements" will come in time but I don't see anything better on the market yet in the class. I think the lack of any obvious answer to Arianne search says a lot.

You've read the D4 thread right ?

How many times have people come up on here with a fault and the standard answer is "have you had the codes read" ? What if you live hundreds of miles from the nearest dealer ? That's a ball ache just having simple faults rectified.

The Infiniti Q30 is launching in Germany with 6 dealers. Can you imagine a manufacturer launching a vehicle whereby faults are common and the stock response is "have you had the codes read" when there are only 6 dealers in a whole country. Do you think a manufacturer would launch into such a market with a wonky product ?

The Q30 is half what a mid-spec XC60 costs.

I configured one and it came out at £32,750, but the web site configurator was so awful I didn't have everything on it that I have on the XC60.

I certainly didn't have the power!! 170 hp and 350 Nm as opposed to 230 hp and 470 Nm. I couldn't see what the ground clearance was either and there was no 17" wheel option and no adjustable suspension option.

Also I didn't like the look of the car, the fact it's an unknown quantity as I vowed I'd never have Nissan product as long as I lived after my parents owned one.

Auto Express rated it only 2 stars for running costs.

Actually only almost 8 years old as it was introduced in 2008 :).

I think this body shape will be around for another 3 or 4 years, possibly more if sales hold up.

Possibly falling behind in the infotainment stakes, which could be rectified quite easily if they wanted to. Agree the rest of the car is up with the best of the competition.

The Mercedes GLC isn't being mentioned much in this thread, am I missing something?

It looks like a strong competitor to the XC60 to me. Size, price, technology, performance, economy (CO2 at 129), even an AMG line model for those that want M Sport like bone shakers.

You may have only been able to buy it for 8 years the car has certainly been around a lot longer than that. The type approval date for my S60 is week 46 of 2007 yet the car did not go on sale until Q3/4 2010.

What is the type approval date on the V5C for the XC60 ?

I was not suggesting the Q30 was a direct competitor to the XC60 rather making the point of the confidence the manufacturer has in the product.

Any journalist would give the Model T a 5 star rating if you paid them enough.

There is a Nissan worker near me who has a Q30, I pass it when I walk my dog at night. Much smaller than the other cars mentioned, a hatchback rather than an SUV style of car. I don't think the boot will be able to take that much. I have a supsicion that the Q30 will join the Leaf in the pile of over priced, left on the shelf range of Nissan cars. It is fine to have a prestige range but I am not convinced that the Q30 is big enough to persuade people to part with prestige money.

No spare wheel of any type.
Some folk don't like the 'iPad-style' infotainment screen.
MB should have sent the dashboard design team off to look at what Audi and Volvo do.

Difficult one really, Porsche know the market well, have the demand there and really do not need to give discount, despite this the things they charge for get a bit on the anal side.

Porsche these days is less sports car and more SUV as the Macan and Cayenne are really their cash cow.

In relation to the BMW personally I would go for the 35d, but without discount and any options that is £50K list.

But, BMW list is a nonsense as on a lot of their range you can get discount - I know that you said 10% discount on the X3, but that is nearing the end of the line. Generally discount from BMW is above that and is fairly straightforward with little negotiation when ordering new.

The X4 is relatively new, just watch the boot space on them though as the X5 to X6 suffers with a similar problem with the roof cut down at the back.

I know it is a different model, but many reported on the 640D Gran Coupe getting up to 15-20% discount without much effort (although they naturally splurged that saving in many cases plundering the eye watering options list).

I am probably the wrong person to look at when it comes to Audi's so I won't make any comment.

As for the active safety technology whilst I appreciate it from a technology stand point, having driven the V40 with it I found it annoying, sadly. It is one of the reasons I ended up with BMW.

The screen is not even central in many cases on many of the models where it is stuck on (in the GLC it is definitely not)....

Don't buy a BMW if you ever expect to be let out of a side road again. No really, I'm sure there is a bit about it in the highway code...

Porsche, Porsche, Volvo, Volvo, and another Volvo - for me.

I wouldn't have another Porsche. Nothing to choose between them in terms of build quality, the Volvos were more reliable and the last Volvo was a more comfortable way of covering long distances than a 911. People may not have been hateful but it didn't stop them nicking the badges off the Porsches and repair costs were an insult to any reasonable man's intelligence.

If you want to make an impression buy a Porsche. If you want a car that's easy to live with and does the job that it was designed for, then Volvo gets my vote.

To be fair, comparing the comfort of a 911 to a Volvo is not really the same. The fairer question is relating to the comfort of a Macan against an XC60 and I don't know the answer to that. No question, I went on a Porsche rampage as it is an aspirational car to me. I doubt I will ever own one and I will not lose sleep about that but if you have the money then it is one of those things that is nice to tick off the list as something you have owned. A Jaguar is also on my list and thanks to the XE that may be an option in future but that is another matter.

Anyway, the thing with aspirational choices is they are often not rational. They are something to lust over. Arianne took a Macan for a test drive and gave a very good review of it, and then rejected it as an option.

Did you have fun with the Porsche 911 though?

I got let out in the bm 640 on both test drives...probably because it looks different to many bm's or it might have been just it's size which is longer than an new xc90, current range rover sport/range rover in normal wheel base....quite amusing really as i knew they were big but not that big!

The only car in it's class ironically that is longer is the panamera!