Ford vs Volvo quality
 

Over the years I've probably made myself unpopular with a few fellow members as I've often commented on the quality issues that impacted some Volvo's during Ford ownership.

If you service a P1 XC90 and a XC60 back to back - as soon as you start you realise the FoMoCo based vehicle has self tapping screws into plastic plugs holding the engine undertray in place rather than the M8 bolts into captive nuts on the XC90...... I usually get berrated by someone whose still driving their dads B-reg Sierra and never had a problem...

Anyway I've just changed my pickup for a 12-plate Ford Ranger, the new shape one that's actually a Ford not a Mazda and I've joined the appropriate Forums.

F*** me what a crock of sh*t.

Piston failures between 40k and 100k not uncommon. Oil pump failures at any time - quite common - usually resulting in engine destruction. Ford know about the problem as they recalled all 2012 transits with the same engine but not the Ranger. EGR valves failing and draining the coolant down the exhaust, as the temp sensor is in the plastic thermostat housing sudden loss of coolant doesn't always register so - engine destruction.

This is the 2.2 engine that was in the Jag X-Type, Current XF & XE, Transit, Freeloader 2 etc. And it's cheaply made - the font timing cover is a steel plate pressing for cheapness and needs to be fitted with a centralisation tool, it's not a casting.

We moan about alternator pulley clutches not making it past 150k on D5's or Swirl flap arms coming off.... a worrying proportion of them don't make it to 100k on the factory engine. The only plus side is as they are made from cheese the bits to totally rebuild one cost less than £500.

Etc. etc.

It's rare that I regret being a lazy sod at school but I know now if I'd have worked harder I might have been able to afford a Hilux or a D-Max. Sorry for the rant but it makes me feel better (which is selfish I know).

They've gone downhill since my '65 Corsair then?

I remember them!
My boss at the time, had a Corsair with I think a V4 engine. I have worked out it would have been around '67 or '68.
I remember as it was the first car I reached 100mph in!
My boss trusted me to drive it now and again.
Silly man!

Ford = Fix Or Repair Daily. I serviced a Ford Focus yesterday and had to drill the airbox screws out because they literally fell apart due to rust. It's a shame because Ford certainly have the ability to make decent vehicles, but they choose not to. There are lots of reports already about 2019 and 2020 models rusting to bits both cosmetically and structurally. The new Ford Ranger is also getting ripped to bits by owners because of its bad build quality. Misaligned rear axles seem to be very common on the newer vehicles despite Ford being aware of the problem with earlier models. They make the same mistakes again and again yet they are somehow still in business.

Some guy over on Piston Heads posted that a tuning company who tuned his Focus ST (with the Volvo 2.5T engine) said the engine was one of the best designed engines they had ever worked on.

All I can say is that my 152,000 mile S40 T5 sounds brand new when you start it up, as did my previous 145,000 mile S60 2.0T

And my 430,000 Mile V70 D5 could do with a new injector, and the engine mounts have worn causing cabin vibration, but if I fix those it feels like it'll be on the road for another 10 years.

Always felt most cars now feel good/decent when new, its when you come back at 50k, 100k, 150k miles when the difference starts to show between quality and penny pinching.

Ford are THE masters at penny-pinching, if they can save 64p on the build then they will go for it. Every problem I've had with my S40 has been because of the Ford suspension components. TBF all the Ford wiring etc has been good.

It was a shame when all new 4-cyl Focus ST's head gaskets failed but I guess they sorted it out and it probably won't affect their reputation at all.

My Father has ran Fords for over 30 years and never had any issues whatsoever....but then he runs them from 0 to 30K miles so no surprise really. I've tried explaining that the massive depreciation hit he takes would likely mean it would be more economical to run a BMW/Merc but he won't do that.

I think it's high-mile Fords that'll be the worst but no-one cares about that they just want us to buy a new one with all that lovely spare cash we have lying around :confused_smile:

....and the other thing that Ford insist on doing and have been doing for 30+ years is using bolts that have a hex head that’s two or three sizes too small for the thread diameter - I.e. the water pump to block bolts on this are M8 but with a 10mm head where you would expect a 13mm, and they’re made from old washing machines so it’s very easy to round them off.

I have owned and driven Volvos continuously for the past 47 years starting with a 145S and going through various models up to my current two. One 360GLT covered 270,000mls without any issues and my previous V40 370,000mls 2.0lt petrol still on all original components.

My son bought a 2004 Volvo V50 T5 several years ago based on the reputation of the T5 and my ownership experience - to say we were both dissappionted with the quality is an understatement, I do not expect to buy a Volvo and then find FoMoCo stamped on every major component. Needless to say son is no longer a Volvo owner, he now has a Skoda Superb and that really does live up to its name.

If we’re talking diesels, the 2.2 in the X-Type is a Ford “Puma” engine that appeared in the Mark 3 Mondeo and that had all sorts of reliability issues. This is an engine to avoid and I feel your anger, BUT is it still used by Ford for new vehicles?

For instance.....

The 2.2 diesel that was used in the XF was a different and far more reliable Ford/PSA engine that was also used in the Mark 4 Mondeo in 2.0 and 2.2 capacities. The 2.0 version was also installed in some early P3 V70s.

The current XE and XF use Jaguar Land Rover engines that have nothing to do with Ford.

Volvo are removing the parking ticket holder from new cars!

I remember the feeling of disappointment when I attempted to tighten the throttle cable on my old V6 Ford Cougar, only to find there was no adjuster mechanism.

you should see what the MK 5 mondeo is like its shocking what kind of faults they get on the 2.0 diesel engine i could list around 10 . also the other components in the car such as steering lock , suspension mounts steering rack wheel bearings , fuel pumps injectors etc etc

It is the same engine as used in some of the volvos however when volvo dropped them Ford/Citroen made some major modifications to it such as plastic sump and a weird complicated drop gear to lower the fuel pump to clear the bonnet that leaks like a sieve , and a revamped EGR system which sticks and rusts up and plastic electric coolant thermostat which cracks and rocker arms and valve springs made from chocolate so crack .

parts aren't cheap either a set of tail light for the MK5 modeo is £1400 .

after 38 years !

I have not used mine yet!

I'm disappointed that a few things of mine could do with tightening, but adjustment is only possible using pharmacological products. Things are definitely not what they used to be. Or where they used to be either.

And CD players.... for the same reason.... nearly obsolete....

I may stand corrected but I based the XF/XE 2.2 on the timing cover centralisation tool being sold as for those vehicles.

The engine in the Ranger is the Puma engine and also found it's way into the Land Rover Defender... I bet late model low mileage TD5's command a fortune.

The XF has been around over 10 years now.

Drive a 66 plate transit custom with the euro 6 2l engine for work.
That’s been a complete crock, it randomly kept overheating then dropping quickly back to normal temperature, needed a new engine at 45k, in last week of warranty. Had a failed injector, just had to have DPF (Is that what it’s called when it uses ad blu?) replaced at 51000, it’s mainly used on motorways, so no reason for that to get blocked.
On the plus side, there hasn’t been a warning light lit for the last 300 miles.

I’ll not be buying a ford myself, glad it’s not me picking the tab up for the repairs!

Groan.... think I'll sort this one out and then look for a Hilux or a D-Max.

Just logged on to the Ranger forum today and 2 more cars for sale as spares/repairs with cracked pistons.

Swines.... I love that feature.

Having had lots of Fords I’ve found them average apart from the Mk3 Transit which which we retired at 650k after the chassis started cracking. The Sierra’s were decent motors and we worked em hard. I had a KA, probably one of the best Fords over ever owner and it was ultra reliable and a good drive for a small car.
My old V50 didn’t disappoint, the only big niggle was the ignition switch packing in, the poxy butterfly valve and the EGR which was bypassed. Other than that, for a ten year old motor it performed well.

Now that is a shame. Great little piece of kit and I use mine regularly. Can you not speak to Volvo? Perhaps they would listen to you!

I've seen a few variations on what Ford stands for, my favourite is ****er Only Runs Downhill.

I love Fords. Specifically a 1991 F250 Utility with the 7.3 IDI diesel in it, or a 60s Ford F600. That's it really.

But not in the UK. To buy one and then tour across Canada, that'd be mint.

If my Volvo packs in, I'm reverting to bicycle commuting.

Go for the hilux

I do think that Ford, just like GM, is a US entity with a European arm. Few of the European cars are sold in the US, they're treated like a poor cousin that bangs them out cheap to maintain the dividend.

Forgot to mention that the Amorak is in the mix as well...

Mercedes x class too very nice

Ford V Volvo. No comparison
 

Ford bought Volvo for one reason, the superior technology that Volvo has always prided itself on. Ford being Ford stopped making a lot of parts for the older Volvos. They are notorious for making cars that just about get to the end of Guarantee and then when you go in to any dealership the day after they will not try to please you.
I have had 6 Volvos over the years, my present 940 2.3 turbo for 23 years. It has now got 306000 miles on the clock and is still going strong With the occasional hick-up. I have it serviced at a non franchised garage where the Mechanics are of the old school and they love working on it because when they lift the bonnet, they can see where everything is without having to spend an hour taking all the bits out before they can get to see the part.

There was a big law suite in the United States that Volvo got dragged into, their new paymasters, Ford did’t like the claims made by Volvo about their roof strength, which was 100% stronger than it needed to be to meet US legislation. Volvo were told to toe the corporate line in this respect, (presumably Ford saw an opportunity to do some penny pinching). The case was brought about by a man whose wife was killed when their Explorer flipped and rolled causing the roof to fold in.

Interesting reading if you like the cut and thrust of corporate shenanigans.

Friend has a Ford ranger, had a front wheel bearing pack up. Was cheaper to buy a good second hand hub than try and change the bearing.

These days for a utility vehicle it has to be Toyota, landrover have nothing in the range that is remotely utility and at their prices who's gonna put a bale of hay or the dogs in the back

Mazdas are OK buy I have seen fuel filters knocked off on rough ground off road and heared of 2 that needed new clutches before 7000 miles.. They were brought to a training day and the fuel filter being knocked off caused a whole heap of problems. We had to dig out contaminated soil and then spend an hour superglue ing the housing together for the guys to get home.

Regularly Lane with a lad who drives a Toyota, he is now on his third, chassis rot saw the old one off and unlike old landrovers a new chassis is not a simple job. All have been super reliable mechanically.

Afraid I would avoid rangers like the plague, you are not the first to comment on their build quality and reliability, though they are a nice looking truck. Fine if you want an ornament, not so if you want a tool.

Paul.

Nissan based so might even be well made!!

You mean the German badged Datsun?

The do look the part though, way out of my budget for a few years though...

Not comfortable reading for someone who has just bought one (me) but you’re right. Fortunately it’s a second vehicle we use at the weekends for lugging straw and horse/donkey sh*t around so it will probably do 6000 miles a year ish. I’ll probably keep it a year then look at swapping it for a hilux or a d-max, maybe an Amorak but the sub 15k examples on the market are mostly very high mileage and/or messed about with.

I wouldnt worry overly much. Whilst I reckon the Toyota is likely still king, I know many people with Rangers and they use them for everything from grocery getting to hauling trailers and off road work. Nobody has had any significant problems and most shrug their shoulders if it does go wrong saying, its a Ford. I can get it fixed anywhere.

Agreed George but at what cost.

This is why I hang on to my 26 year old discovery. Parts are cheap and it's easy to fix.

Even oem are now very reasonable.
I bought a service filter pack from All Makes, box said made in Britain, upon opening it all 3 filters were made in china. For £6 more than the chinese filters I can get genuine landrover air filter and oem oil and fuel filters from a LandRover dealer.
£14 for the All Makes Chinese filters or £20 for genuine items. I will happily spend the extra £6 , in fact already have and put on the shelf ready for next service, and know I have fitted good quality filters instead of hoping the chinese ones are built to the correct standard.

Watched a you tube vidio while in lockdown, an American guy testing oil filters and then opening them up to examine the innards. Some shockingly bad results, even from known names that previously I would of trusted.

Any way, how's the new job going, you doing it properly now or still inducting. Grandkids in St Andrews went back Tuesday.

Paul.

Nissan has gone to pot the last few years. They're no where near as reliable as they used to be & that's more so since they teamed up with Renault, in my opinion.

The Mercedes X Class has a Renault engine & is based on the Nissan Navara. The Mercedes has a fancier interior than the Navara & they (Mercedes) did a good job at making it look different to the Navara. However, the X Class is just a fancy pickup that has a premium badge with a Renault engine.

Don't be fooled by the looks.

I'd buy a Nissan over a Mercedes for reliability any day. Merc and BMW seem to be getting terrible reviews over last few years

First teaching day today Paul, brilliant. Am at a lovely school with a great department 10 minutes from my front door. I'm sure there will.be bad days, and it's crazy the protocols for covid hygiene, but necessary...eats into lesson times.

Hope you are well man, i don't bother.much with forums these days, everything seems to have gotten so bad mannered and ill tempered at times!! Been jogging snd cycling a lot, combined with diet am down from a high of 146kg to 115kg. Looking to get to 107.

having had a "few" fords many years ago
would Not touch a Modern ford with yours !
whats Gutting is lifting the bonnet on the V50 to find "FoMoCo" parts all over the place

there,ford, now nothing more than ****e on 4 wheels, ,,until they rust or the engine packs up ,

Never been a Ford fan, excepting the odd old Ka