Vacuum line routing on D5? Schematics or pics?
 

Hi all,

Could someone (with Vadis?) provide me with a pic or schematic of the the vacuumpump, the parts and the routing? It's a LHD incase that makes much difference. I need the one controlling the turbo and engine supports, as there seem to be two vacuum pumps :)

I've scoured the internet, but failed to find anything of the sort for an early 2004 D5 (163hp, Euro III that is I think).

I am trying to get as much info as possible before I jack up the car (due to family obligations and weatherconditions this takes quite some planning, so no use to go in there only to find after 5 minutes that I am stuck and don't have the necessary parts with me to perform even the simplest tests...)

Thanks!

So far I haven't found the second vacuum pump (but it may be a double pump, the info came from someone with an XC90 Euro III, 163hp D5). It should be pretty much under my hand at 18 seconds.

I did figure out some stuff from finally getting Vadis up and running and the advice of others.

Here's a vid showing some vacuum-lines, the 'variable nozzle turbo governor' (@ 25 seconds) and the relay controlling the engine-pads or -supports (@ 38 seconds). Since the latter is tie-rapped into place, I'm not sure if that's the correct position :).

+ YouTube Video

Still not sure whether the 'solenoid valve' and the 'variable nozzle turbo governor' are the same item. I think they are, but they look differently in Vadis...
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8...eturbogove.jpghttp://img693.imageshack.us/img693/6...enoidvalve.jpg



Edit: look what I've found :)
1=vacuum pump
2=power brake booster
3=VNT governor
4=engine pads
5=solenoid valve
6=engine speed (rpm) sensor
7=engine control module
8=brake control module

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9...uumcircuit.jpg

Beware the documentation is VERY confusing:

Quote:

The engine pads are activated (OFF/ON) depending on engine speed. Normally the valve is active (ON) at idle speed and is then deactivated (OFF) at engine speeds above approximately 1500 rpm. ON = Open valve (hard engine pads). OFF = Closed valve (soft engine pads).

Quote:

When the engine is idling or if the engine speed (RPM) is below approximately 1100 rpm and the vehicle speed is below a certain level, the engine control module (ECM) grounds the solenoid valve. The solenoid valve then opens the passage to the vacuum pump. This changes the atmospheric pressure in the engine pads to a vacuum, making the engine pads softer and better able to absorb vibrations at idle speed and low vehicle speeds. When the engine speed (RPM) is above approximately 1100 rpm or when the vehicle speed exceeds a certain level, the engine control module breaks the ground connection for the solenoid valve. The solenoid valve then closes the vacuum passage and opens the passage for atmospheric pressure instead. The atmospheric pressure then flows in via a hole in the solenoid valve and fills the engine pads, which become harder. This ensures better ride comfort in other driving conditions.

So which is it? Switching the solenoid ON and making it softer of switching the solenoid ON and making it harder?

There is only one vacuum pump 1 which provides vacuum to all the components: engine pads, turbo, brake servo, etc. The difference is that each of these is controlled by different sensor. You can see it here:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9...uumcircuit.jpg

3=VNT governor controls turbo - wastegate to be more precise
5=solenoid valve - controls the engine pads - yes you mounted it correctly by looking at your video.

Now about the engine pads. At low RPM or low speeds there is a vacuum in the pads which means that they are soft. There is basically more flexibility for rubber pads to bend due to reduced pressure - they can collapse more easily. The solenoid valve is opened (ON) letting the vacuum pump suck out the air from the engine pads.
At higher speeds the solenoid is closed - this means that the air pressure fills the vacuum lines going to the engine pads. The pads become stiffer - the pad has to squash the air to be able to collapse (bend) - it is more difficult compared to vacuum.

Try this with syringe (1). Move the piston up half way up. There is some air in the syringe. Connect small hose with another syringe (2) to the syringe (1):
1. Solenoid on - vacuum pump sucks out the air - move the piston from syringe (2) up and hold the piston of syringe (1) - you can feel that the piston from syringe 1 wants to drop (collapse) very easily - it becomes soft.
2. Solenoid off - fill the syringe (2) with air as well and connect everything again. Push the piston in syringe (2) down and at the same time try pushing the piston from syringe (1) down as well. It is more difficult - it is much harder.

I hope that's what you've asked for.

Good luck.

Thanks.:thumbs_up:
Either could have been correct, but the vacuum making it softer is indeed more logical.

Just some extra info: according to Vadis, only the pre 2001 D5's have a waste gate, after that it was dropped. And my vacuumpump has two outputs if I saw it correctly. One leading directly to the governor and he pads, the other leading to what looked like the power brake booster. That connector is way more professional, whereas the output for the governor/pads is simply a hollow tube you slide the rubber vacuum-tube over.

I'll try to make a pic to make sure I'm not mixing it up with an oil-feed-line :)

Yes, you're right. I was just trying to make a point. The governor controls the bypass of the fumes. If the pressure is high enough the governor opens the passage for the fumes to bypass the turbo so that the turbo pressure does not increase any more.

That's right. It's the same vacuum pump but there are two outputs:
1. Low volume, high output for turbo,
2. High volume, low output for the servo

The hose diameters indicate that.

As the pic on the turbo shows, there seem to be two control arms. I'm struggling with different terms used, sometimes it's a governor, sometimes it's a solenoid controlling the turbo.
Are there, in my 2004 D5, actually two independent controls, one for the vanes and one for the bypass? (Also see the first two screenshots of Vadis in my second post).


Thanks for expanding on that.
You don't see this in the above drawing, and I am following the steps GSMGuy took to solve his issues. He mentioned two vacuumpumps, one low volume, one high. Knowing me, I get confused quite easily, so I need to know exactly what to look for, or I chicken out and never get anything done :)

Thanks again!

There is only one control arm and it controls the vanes (2=power brake booster, 3=VNT governor). That's the rod with the adjuster. I'm not sure if this is the right image of the turbo for d5 engine. I've been looking at the turbo in my car last week but I can't remember if it looked the same.

When you speak about the turbo either governor or solenoid is correct. Volvo prefers to use governor term and usually when someone says it, it means the sensor/controlling unit behind the mixer (25th second on your video) not component 3 (governor valve) in the turbo picture. Using governor for the solenoid is not entirely correct, I know.

When someone tells you that you've got sticking governor this might mean that the actual governor valve (part 3 in the picture) is damaged. In this case replacing the sensor (5) won't help (unless the sensor provides wrong vacuum pressure) - you need a new turbo. In this case you've got nothing to loose and you can do something like here:

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=83830
Post at the bottom of the page.

By the way in which section of Vadis have you found all these pictures?

Took me hours to find, you expect me to find them again????? :sad-smiley-023: ;)

On a more serious note: I selected the correct car and engine, and then just tried searches with "vacuum", "governor" and "pads".

(Click the "Engine" symbol, then the "design&function", then "intake and exhaust system", then the searchbutton can be used and fill out "pads", double click "diesel engine" and it will show a.o.t. the 'wrong' turbo shown above with the wastegate (?) still shown besides the actuator of the vanes.)

I tried finding the vacuumschematics again, but have so far failed... Then again, I did find the vacuum pump in a section about removing the engine :)

Great, thanks. :thumbs_up:

The vacuumcircuit: select option "0" which is the (i) button for information (?). Then Design and Function in the left window, and miscellaneous in the right. Search for Governor and double click the now highlighted "Engine Control Module' and scroll down.

Hi been.reading this very carefully as hoped one of you might help.Got a problem with the rear mount it seems as get a lot of noise and vibration when revs drop to about 1100 but only when driving slowly ,say in a traffic Que.Doesn't happen when driving normally.If I disconnect the rear mount problem solved but tickover choppy.Dealers changed vacuum mounts and updated software but stuck what to do next even technical were no help Really hoping you guys can help.Thanks

Check if the engine pads solenoid operates properly - component 5 in here http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showpo...84&postcount=3

At idle it should suck the air so if you stick your finger to the end of the hose disconnected from the T-piece (hoses going to the pads) you should feel vacuum. If the RPM increases above 1250 there should be no suction.

Thanks for that ,just tried it and works as you suggested,may be cuts in at 1100 ish if anything ie lower than 1250 if that makes a difference but definitely vacuum goes on lower revs and off higher than 1100,what d'you reckon??

I wouldn't worry about the RPM as long as you feel that the vacuum appears and disappeares with certain RPM.
ok, next thing would be to check the vacuum engine pads.
1. Note how rough is the ride with both engine pads connected
2. Disconnect one of the from the T-piece and seal the disonnected T-piece end with a piece of blanked hose or a piece of rubber so there is no vacuum leak.
3. Go for a spin and compare if there is any difference with the engine roughness with the engine pad disconnected.
4. Move on to the second engine pads and repeat the above procedure.
5. If you don't seem much difference with the engine roughness with the disconnected engine pads then one of the is faulty.
6. Now you need a vacuum gauge to test which one is leaking.

Good luck

Thanks again,will hopefully get on it later tonight

Ok just spent a couple of hrs fiddling around and now confused.Did as you said with each tube.With either connected ,one at a time ,no noise at all or vibration .Engine. rougher though than with both connected but no difference that I could tell between the tthe front and back mount options .Tried different T piece thinking that may be a cause but same results.Has that made any sense???

The engine mounts shouldn't have anything to do with rough idling unless your vacuum circuit has an issue.

But even then...

Does your circuit hold its vacuum? Does it achieve enough vacuum?
iirc your turbo should have maximum vacuum at low revs, (the vanes are set by this vacuum to give maximum rotation of the turbo at low flow of exhaustgasses). But even if this fails, this shouldn't effect the idling-roughness I think... ?!!?

Just thinking out loud, I don't think I'm adding that much useful info...

Just seen your post.Sorry I didn't describe it properly.I should have said engine ticks over fine but vibrates more even when you just look at it .Also more steering column vibration when idling worse when the pump not connected . Would it be right that vacuum is too weak?? given only connected to one mount the noise I've been describing disappears??And if so is that software ?? No one seems to know not even.the dealers

Boost gauge
 

Could you plumb a boost gauge into any of these? Seen a few people tapping directly into the front of the EGR, which is neat, but I dont really fancy doing it tbh, would rather use the T piece in a vacuum/boost line. Sorry for going slightly off track!!

Kind regards,

Bas

no you can not take a feed from the vac line for boost
mike

Is there one I can take it from?