B&W Sound System in Ultimate model - very poor
 

I'm now three weeks into my new 2024 XC90 Ultimate.

I'm still learning lots about how to operate it, with lots of delving into the 'manual' in the app... :rolleyes: Oh, for a paper version! "Just use search" I hear you say. Well, I don't want to search for something specific, just wander through it randomly in front of the TV, stopping off where something catches my eye... I used to learn a lot from manuals that way, in the old days before companies scrapped paper manuals, claiming they were saving the planet.

I spent a lot of time trying to get the 'top of the range' sound system settings right. I just can't get a proper stereo picture and balance between L and R sound where I'm sitting in the driving position. My 2016 Landrover Discovery had a far better system than this B&W one. In the Discovery, I could move the whole sound stage to the left or right, so that the sound coming out of the L and R door speakers were biased to the right, i.e. giving a perfect L and R sound balance to the driver. The B&W system has no such control. I can highlight 'driver' in one of the settings and that just makes the right speaker louder and the left speaker hardly discernable at all, even if I lean right over to the left past the middle console (not whilst driving, of course...)

I think I've exhausted every permutation of sound setting, but just thought I'd post here in case someone had stumbled across anything that might help. :sad_smile:

I know exactly where you are coming from!

When I bought my then new V90 five years ago, having heard or read that Volvo Cars no longer included a physical, hard copy manual with new cars I told the salesman I wanted one. It was added to my order at a cost of twenty quid or so if I recall correctly. I know that was then and this is now, but I would be surprised if it is no longer possible to get one. I know you can download it from the Volvo Cars website, but we are talking about a tome running to literally hundreds of pages making DIY printing impractical. Besides, a properly bound and produced version is infinitely preferable...in my humble opinion at least. So it would definitely be worth your while speaking to a dealer.

On your B&W question I can offer no assistance as my V90 makes do with the far more humble, standard stereo equipment.

See this...

https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/2...3#post-8085156

Volvo in their wisdom decided to remove fundamental audio controls when moving from Sensus to AAOS. They kept these removals secret by not publishing any changes in their AAOS based sales materials and specifications. They decided to remove Balance and Fader controls.

I also believe that the real reason for going away from a paper based or PDF owners/user manual is not entirely based on their virtue signalling green agenda, but is rather more cunning and deceitful.

Without a physical copy of a manual, Volvo can easily alter their online manuals text with a few simple keystrokes. I have seen this for myself regards a paragraph of text that was in the 2022 (21w46) XC60 online manual regards the 12v battery, having now mysteriously disappeared. Volvo is now able to change historical information for its own purposes.

“If it’s not in writing, then we can’t be held liable”. "Whatever actions we may wish to take we have carte blanche to do so".

This is how I have my current car set up and with the fader biased towards the front speakers.

The car I have on order has B&W and I was led to believe it would still have balance and fader controls even though they've been removed from the standard audio system. Clearly this was wrong.

My new car was ordered in Sep 2023 with delivery now expected end June. As I read more about features missing and things not working in AAOS I start to wonder whether I should proceed with the order. I'm going to test drive a Lexus after Easter because if my (and others I know) previous experience with that brand is anything to go by, everything just works (and keeps working).

I believe you should be OK with the B&W level system, as it still retains the Balance and Fader controls, when I last checked.

It was the High-Performance Sound system and the HK system that both had the Balance and Fader controls removed under AAOS.

It may be prudent to go and check a just-delivered car at the dealer with B&W – just to be sure it's still there.

I was waiting in the car when I saw this thread.

Under the 'sounds' setting, I can't see balance or fader options (they were there on my old Sensus car with standard stereo, but I never used it personally).

Only studio gets an option to focus on the driver or all and an option to change use to the middle speakers or the front ones only. A kind of fader/balance of sorts I guess, but not as adjustable as before.

That said, I think it's a superb speaker system. I use 'stage' and it gives a dolby atmos-like effect of surround sound on well produced tracks. Not even considered looking for a fader until I stumbled upon this thread.

For all AAOS' lack of features or ambition, I certainly wouldn't say the B&W sound system is a problem.

The Author of this post has clearly stated that his brand new 2024 XC90 with B&W system does not have the balance and faders, is that not clear enough?

Oh dear, the thread police are out in force… Please don’t take offence, as none was intended. It’s a sad woke world…

If I knew what this woke thing was then maybe I would take offence but as I'm not really old (or really young) I have no idea what its all about.

I just want people to actually read the whole post before making replies that either contradict or don't actually answer the original questions.
Comments like 'when I last checked' aren't of much use to people as no-one knows when it was that you did 'last check' and it has obviously moved on since then.

And before you start claiming victimisation here, I'd say the same to anyone doing similar as I like to keep things inclusive.....

I can understand your intensions in saying what you said, but your response did feel a bit disproportionate and aggressive in relation to my saying 'when I last checked'. This was not a false or misleading statement, but rather an honest ‘point in time’ reference for me personally. I would always expect a reader to check and validate what they read for themselves based on a current time reference, as things can change over time.

A community forum is a place where ideas and views on a particular topic can be exchanged, but if it is felt by the site Administrators/Moderators that any wording posted must be factually accurate and able to be supported with admissible evidence, then all posts should first be validated by the admins before being published. Some community forums do conduct this process.

Let’s try and keep the site a relaxed and informal place to have a bit of banter, where people are not afraid of what they may say in fear of offending someone (obviously within acceptable standards) or not getting it textbook accurate. And obviously anything that is posted and read should always be taken with a pinch of salt, as sometimes people do get things unintentionally wrong.

I took delivery of my new XC90 Ultimate just over a week ago and there are no balance or fader controls.

I'm going to have a prolonged fiddle today to see if I can get anything sorted.
I went on a forty minute drive yesterday and the sound was just as if I'd got the radio off and instead put a transistor radio in my driver side pocket - 100% biased to the right, no sound from anywhere on the left and no stereo picture whatsoever. Maybe the passenger side speaker is not working, dunno. I'll report back.
If I'd have known about this issue beforehand I most definitely would not have bought the car. How can all the blurb about B&W 'audiophile' level quality and ninetween speakers be squared with not being able to have a proper stereo picture?? And as someone who spends most of his time in a recording studio, who on earth needs nineteen speakers? The most highest-spec studios in the world only have sets of two (to check mixes in simulated different environments) L and R.

More later....

If the B&W sound system is as bad as everyone says it is, then I will cancel my lease car due next week.

As a side note, can you cancel a lease car before the 14 days cooling off period. Going to check my B&W system first, then hand back if unacceptable.

Very sorry to hear that - no pun intended. But thanks for the up to the minute status on the Balance / Fader topic.

I too had the same disappointment of finding that the Balance/Fader controls had been taken away when I collected my AAOS car. What is annoying is when looking at a brand new car sitting in the showroom at the same time I was ordering my new one, I could see Balance/Fader controls pop up on the screen as the sales person gave me a quick run-through of the system - but alas this would have been one of the last Sensus cars he was showing me on. At that Sensus/AAOS cross over time I genuinely feel the dealers did not know how different the new AAOS system was going to be compared to Sensus.

Never in a million years did I think to ask the salesperson at the time - "will the new AAOS system still include the balance and fader controls"?

Volvo UK really dropped the ball here by not informing their dealers better in advance.

Given how positive reviews of the B&W system were in the early years compared to the comments now, I wonder whether it's more that just the software that has changed with AAOS cars.

There are several areas where Volvo has removed features and instigated cost cutting so maybe the amps and speakers have been downgraded too? After all, as an option it used to be £3,000 and now it's fitted as standard in Ultimate models. Obviously it wouldn't have cost anything like £3k to produce but going cheap on the amps and speakers would still be a significant saving in a world where not so long ago they removed the windscreen ticket holder to save 50p.

Seems like a great system to me, all my music sounds good on it, not even had to fiddle with it to make that happen. Of course my family would argue rap and metal don't sound good anywhere :D

Yes I'm that old fart sat out side sainsburys in his sensible Volvo waiting for the missus, cranking out gangsta rap for all to enjoy :tounge_smile: :D

I'd option BW again, seem to recal reviews suggesting the implementation was better in a 90.

What?! That cannot be right. AAOS cars are so stripped down, I don't think I will be ever getting one.

I agree, it isn’t right and felt the same after buying mine and still cannot see the logic of removing a very basic, long stayed and assumed function as balance & fader controls. Looking at things now and having lived with the car for a few years I’ve had to come to terms with playing AAOS roulette each time I get in the car.

All the AAOS bugs and issues were driving me to distraction, and still do at times, but I guess you have to try and learn to live with them as these latest systems are sadly here to stay and going back to the simplicity of my good old MY11 XC90 is gone forever.

Putting the whole AAOS debacle to one side, the XC60 is a good car and has to be one of the most comfortable long distance driving cars I’ve ever owned - even better than my old XC90, and Its cabin interior is a really nice place to be. I also think the XC range is a good looking car compared to the multitude of clone bubble shape cars out there. Regards the loss of balance & fader controls I listen to a lot more talk radio now rather than music as a result of this - or maybe its just an age thing now ;)

Cars are going to become more and more a commodity with things like specification subscriptions becoming the norm – enable the electric seats function by paying a term based subscription.

Hey-Ho

Its obviously just a me thing as I personally now find that AAOS is a far superior system for how I use it compared to my previous Sensus car, yes, it would be nice no have the Drive Mode select and battery hold functions easier access but overall, everything just works better, smoother and is mostly more operable than I found with Sensus.

For the majority of the niggles that other people have found, I don't share them as I'm not using the functions (and never did in Sensus) and as such, I don't miss the fact they are not there.
For how I use my car, AAOS just works and as yet, I haven't had masses of issues with the AAOS Operating system crashing and requiring multiple resets, for this I count myself very lucky as there appears to be alot of reported issues on here about it.
Google Maps as a navigation system is light years better than the Sensus navigation, my HK sound system gives me superb sound quality that needs no adjustments by me to improve it and for things I need to adjust, adjustment is easy and the voice commands work very well.

Everyone's experience and requirements for a cars Infotainment/operating system are different and what one person finds an issue wont even be noticed by someone else. All we can do is find something that works for you and if it dosen't, switch to find something that does.
Clearly, Volvo aren't going to make AAOS into a clone of Sensus, the sensus system was volvo's own system and they controlled the rights and could change what they wanted to whenever they wanted. AAOS is not Volvo's system and making changes requires multiple buy-in's from the different partners which takes time and money on all fronts and if all do not agree, its not implemented.
Its about time people accept that AAOS is what it is (i.e. not a clone of Sensus) and move on.

Interesting. Googling "UK 2024 volvo XC90 ultimate sound system" in Microsoft edge, its A1 responder has incorporated my gripes from this thread! :speechless-smiley-5

Good. Perhaps that might prompt someone at Volvo to implement a fix in the 'infotainment' software, or write an app workaround?


https://www.blueriverband.co.uk/Volv...20Sounds_1.jpg

I kindly disagree with you here. It's about time people vote with their wallets and ditch a manufacturer who removes every possible physical knob and even virtual screen functions to save another penny. While charging us more, not less, for each year car iteration.
I doubt very much I will be buying AAOS Volvo, ever. I have plenty of other cars to discover.

The B&W system doesn't have Dolby Atmos (which would be pointless in a car) but does have Dolby Pro Logic II which has been around since the beginning of time itself :).

Also, an XC60 has 14.1 speakers and an 1,100 watt amp. Volvo don't specify whether the power figure is RMS or peak so it's not very meaningful.

You aren't kindly disagreeing with me, I said the same earlier in my 'rant' where I said if it doesn't work for you, go find something that does.

I do really like the XC60 and its AAOS system and if they still sold the Polestar Engineered model in the UK, I would likely be getting another one in the next 12 months but I will be leaving the Volvo brand for my next purchase as they no longer offer a car that meets my requirements, as such, not being a hypocrite and doing what I preach.

Increasing prices for less equipment (or equipment specs you don't want or will ever use) is not something specific to Volvo, you will find similar at most of the other premium brands with the exception of Porsche where you can still option whatever you want if your budget allows.
As for you not getting an AAOS car, your loss is all I can say.

Looks like we both will be leaving Volvo of different reasons, but I don't see that as a loss 😃 And certainly I won't regret not having AAOS, because what I have currently suits my needs perfectly (XC60 2021 T8 with everything possible including polestar overclock). And the next iteration does not bring a lot of new things to the table, but takes things away instead. But it's just my opinion of course. So, once my car gets older and warranty worries risk increases, I will be looking elsewhere, most likely.
What other SUV are you considering for your next purchase?

Its most likely going to be a Porsche Cayenne S E-Hybrid or Panamera Sport Tourismo S E-Hybrid. I don't feel the switch to full EV is right just yet so want to keep with a PHEV but it needs to be sporty and engaging to drive, like the Polestar Engineered is.
I will likely test drive a Polestar 3 (with performance pack) and a Hyundai Ionic 5N but as already mentioned, not sure the full EV switch is for me just yet.

As always in these discussions the blame seems to be put on AAOS
AAOS is an operating system as per Windows etc.The problem is with the software written by Volvo using this operating system not with AAOS. Several other car manufacturers use AAOS.

I'm pretty sure its the software co-written by Volvo & Google (and whoever else is in partnership on this iteration of AAOS).
As I've mentioned many times, the Sensus system was 100% Volvos system so they could do what they wanted, when they wanted without having to hold meetings to clear things.
On AAOS used in the Volvo cars, because its not a 100% Volvo owned system, changes need to be agreed between the 'Partners' before even a line of programming is written.
I'm pretty sure that some of the things that Sensus could do could not be transferred to AAOS as Google itself would be seen to be tracking and storing much more information on peoples driving details than they would legally be able to do (due to their affiliations with other industries like social media etc). Volvo, as just a car company, could do it as they had no ties or legalities that prevented it from happening.

So Volvo isn't 100% to blame either.

Sorry entirely disagree. AAOS is a published operating system, Google the publisher has no say as to what Volvo write other than that anything must comply with regulations governing any software and falls withim the terms of use of AAOS.
To suggest that Volvo is in continuous consultation with Google is a joke. So do you think that the thousands of other Android app originators are also in 1:1 consultation with Google?
EDIT Further thinking about this it occurs to me that why are Volvo writing the software to drive the B&W audio system? Surely im the context of the AAOS operating system B&W should be supplying an app with every facility to get the best out of their system?

The big question in my mind is how much scope and influence does Volvo – or any auto manufacturer, actually have available under the Google Android developer licence?

In a previous life I was involved in managing and supplying licensed SDKs (software development kits) to 3rd party developers wanting to create custom functions and features on top of our propriety operating system.

I would imagine that through the eyes of Google Android, who own the underlying base operating system code, see Volvo as a 3rd party developer. As a 3rd party developer, you do not have carte blanche rights to do whatever you like with an SDK for a number of stability and licencing reasons.

It’s quite likely that Volvo’s hands are more tied and limited now under AAOS as to what they can do on their own and are now dependant and effected by what Google Android decide to do to the underlying base operating system.

This is an interesting read on the subject: https://source.android.com/docs/automotive

I doubt that is the case other implementations of AAOS have more comprehensive GUIs and features, so there must be quite some freedom allowed, still I'm pretty happy with Volvos implementation.

Responses from B&W and Volvo
 

I thought some might be interested in responses I have received from B&W and Volvo regarding the elimination of an L/R balance control in the Sound Settings of my XC90. Not good news, sadly.

B&W were initially curt and unhelpful. Reading between the lines, I inferred that they're happy to sell the equipment to Volvo but have no say in how well (or badly) Volvo deploy it. They asked me to fill in the usual 'how did we do' post-help questionnaire and I was blunt. Unusally, they then responded more fully as follows:

Dear Matthew, (not my name!?!?)

Thank you for completing and returning your survey regarding your recent contact with the Bowers & Wilkins customer care team.

Although Bowers & Wilkins assisted with the design and placement of the drivers, we have had little to no input on the menu set up from the in car electronics, this would have been managed by Volvo and Harman. All support for the Volvo incar entertainment is handled by Volvo themselves and in some cases Volvo may ask Harman to assist. I will pass on your comments to the Bowers & Wilkins Automotive team for future discussion with Volvo and Harman.

Below are the links to contact Volvo and Harman.
Contact us | Volvo Support UK (volvocars.com)
Harman Kardon Automotive Volvo

Kind regards,
Ken


Volvo were very helpful at first, their customer support chap saying he would raise it with their technical team. I suggested they should a feedback process, whereby car owners could report bugs in the software and suggest improvements. Today I received a direct reply from their technical who don't seem to brook no input from users:

"We are not aware of any changes coming in any upcoming software update for this nor has there been a large demand for this feature to be added. This being included in a software update would require a high amount of requests coming in when it comes to functional changes to be made or for functional changes to be developed.

Essentially, when it comes to the amount of software related changes and developments that are being worked on, this would not be very high on the priority list - hence why it would require a lot of requests for the priority to be heightened."


The squeaky wheel gets oiled I guess, and they don't hear enough squeaking.
I was thinking of doing a short YouTube video, showing what I've settled on in terms of Sound Settings to make the best of a bad job. It might help people researching for a new car purchase who like a decent sound system, and who knows, it might help the wheel squeak on the issue!

I must say I am totally confused by the reply from B&W. What have Harmon got to do with it. Harmon Kardon are an independent operating company but fully owned however by Samsung. B&W are also an independent operating company owned by a third party since 2020
and I have seen it suggested that the intermediate parent is also a Samsung subsidiary although I have been unable to find evidence to confirm this.
This at least confirms my contention that this problem is aa Volvo issue not a AAOS constraint.

Some very good investigating there, which helps us towards trying to decipher this murky picture.

Looking again at the Android AAOS documentation, from what I can see, there is a lot of API and coding related information to Audio Control, Fade & Balance as well as others. (we need an Android coder to help out here) https://source.android.com/docs/auto...io-control-hal

If as I feel may be the case, H&K, B&W and Volvo are all dependant and restricted by the underlying Android AAOS O/S which they all run on to control their hardware systems and apps. Volvo can customise the GUI look and button placements, but overall, I think Android has the final say in how far Volvo and others can really go.

So where is the bottleneck to getting the things, we think should be there, provided to us? Whose door do we really need to bang on - Android or Volvo?