CoC without emission values?
 

I know the emissions are supposed to be 244g/km. But my car's coc does not contain this value. The section is blank.

Did that ever happened to anyone else?

Is this normal or should it be considered incomplete?

https://i.postimg.cc/bN4f4ZBg/Screen...7-29-16-PM.png

I suspect relatively few members on here have had much dealings with certificates of conformity, leave alone understand the intricacies of the hundred or so fields the eurocrats have dreamed up.

If you're referring to the carbon dioxide emissions and fuel consumption then remember that it is a relatively modern thing to fret about these. Back when these cars were produced and the Euro 1 and Euro 2 standards were coming in the political trend was to want cars to have catalytic converters which increased fuel consumption in order slightly to decrease some of the more noxious emissions.

I think they only started to standardise how they measured carbon dioxide emissions from 2017. So you may well find this is an optional field on the CoC for older cars.

There is no mention of any emissions other than the bit I posted. (EDIT: forget this phrase. I misinterpreted what you said about it being an optional field in some coc's)
The paperwork requires the emission values to be on the certificate of conformity you present. Otherwise, i will have used the measurements from the inspection. But I'm still not clear if this is measured in the normal inspection, or if I will have to pay extra for that. Either way, searching online, I can only find 2 different scenarios. Case 1: There is emission values on the coc. Case 2: There is no coc.
The latter means the car is not homologated and you need to go through a more involved and costly process.

I really don't want to have to deal with the company that made the coc ever again, but tomorrow I will call Volvo and see what they say. What a nightmare.

In my view, if this crap serves to ensure the car complies with EC norms and regulations, how the hell can it not have emission values!?

I'm hopeful this is a simple mistake from the company that emitted the coc. But knowing how aweful they are, I know it's gonna be hard to solve either way.

I don't know if it's of any help, but oddly, HM Government Foreign and Commonwealth Office provides a brief guide to importing a car into Portugal.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-into-portugal

This implies that the main reason you might need the CoC is to prove the CO2 emissions; which your CoC appears to have omitted!

Was the 940 sold in Portugal? They may already have the information they need on a national database. If not, you may need the national type approval from the country yours was first registered in.

Good luck! This looks like a nightmare.

Back in 1997, the certificate of conformity template would not have included section 46. Assuming the CoC shown is a reprint, those sections are likely blank because they originally would not have been needed.

The CoC template can be found on P57 of this document.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...L0156-19970914

That document link above is consolidated to Sept 1997, but other versions are available:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...x%3A31970L0156


It only needs one though :)

And don't forget, before the UK left the EU, we had an equal say in those laws - so many of those 'Eurocrats' were Brits. In fact, the British position is/was well respected and often followed by many other EU countries.

I've worked in vehicle homologation for well over a decade, and been part of the working groups for vehicle legislation. :)

Funny enough I had seen that same info, not on that website.
Yes, this specific model is approved in portugal and I do already have the national type approval number and document, but it is very barebones and doesn't have any details really.
And you are correct. Basically the main reason they need the coc is to prove emissions, and they made a coc without emissions values lol

I called the MOT place and they said the inspection type that I have to do will in fact read and record the emission values. But in conversation with the guy we both agreed that it would be much better to have the official values on the coc.
Right now it would make no difference, becuase even though the tax of importing is calculated based on emissions, I won't be penalized by the real values (much likely much higher than the official ones) because I am exempt from the tax, due to relocation exemption.

But, I fear that in the future, the government might make a tax specifically based on emissions, and then I would be greatly penalized for having the real emissions instead of the official ones on the paperwork. The MOT guy agreed with my reasoning.

I called Volvo Portugal and the guy remembered me from a few months ago and he is helping me solve the issue. Sent him the coc I received over email and I threw in the value that should be there "244g/km". It's funny and ironic that it has to be me telling volvo what they should put in the coc, lol but let's see if it works. I just hope I don't have to deal with the other company myself.

That's good info right there James. Thank you so much.

One question arises though. Does this mean that if I ask for a coc now they have to fill in this section? And the company that made the coc just failed to do so!? Or is this considered complete because back then they wouldn't have this section?
I mean, this coc was made in 2023, not 1997. And those values are known... So they should be there, logic says... But what do you think?

EDIT: and what do you mean by "if it is a reprint"? Does this mean that they just reprinted it and didn't check it is was complete?

By 'reprint' I mean duplicate of the original.

I believe that a 2023 CoC would be a 'duplicate' as it is not the original.

The additional data might not be easy to obtain (and some fields not relevant).

So no, I wouldn't expect a duplicate CoC to contain more information than the original one.

Also, please note that manufacturers are only obliged to make duplicate CoCs for a period of 10 years after the vehicle was manufactured.

It's not Volvo that makes the cocs in Portugal. It's a private, separate company.
I was just in contact with Volvo and the guy said that the companies' answer was that in 1997 "it wasn't mandatory to control emissions". Note, not that the form did not contain that info, but that the values were unknown/untested. Which is in fact a lie.

But the 244g/km emission is a known value. It's easily found with a quick google search... How do you mean it may not be easy to obtain?

Furthermore, if they don't "know" the emissions of the car, how do they know it complies with the EU normatives it is supposed to comply with?

One thing is to not contain certain irrelevant info, another is to not contain one of the key aspects of its purpose.

At the time the vehicle was built, this information was not mandatory for the CoC.

I wouldn't be able to definitely say (without researching) that the CO2/fuel economy testing referenced in the Volvo documents are done to the same procedure that a more modern car would be.

Vehicles built prior to (approx) 2017 were tested under the NEDC cycle. Vehicles since then will have been tested under WLTP drive cycle, and the same car tested in the two different ways would get different emissions values.

In the same way, it's possible that the numbers recorded in 1997 may be a different test procedure (and therefore result) to those intended to be recorded on the CoC in 2024.

If the rules have changed, the vehicle will still comply with the requirements it was intended to when built, but not necessarily the newer legislation.

I work primarily in vehicle safety so don't know for certain what changes were made in emissions legislation nearly 30 years ago!

Supposedly in 97 it would have been NEDC. I don't need the values to be according to the WLTP test. I just need the coc to say the values that the model was tested for at the time it got approved to be released on the european market.
Either way. You said older format coc's didn't have section 46, right? But in the coc they sent me the section 46 is partially filled in. Like in the picture I posted there are some values, just not all, and not the global co2 emissions.

The CoC is just a statement that the vehicle complies with the type approval, which would have been valid at the time.

It can't confirm that a vehicle meets requirements to which it wasn't originally intended to meet. :)

But would a car be approved in 1997 without co2 emissions testing? And why does it contain some values, but not all?
Not necesserily asking you. Just throwing questions that pop up. This is confusing.

Everything I read proposes 2 scenarios only. Either the car is approved and the emission values in the coc must be used. Or the car is not approved and you need to do the full homologation process. By deduction, one can reasonably assume that a car which the values were not taken/measured, would not have been approved. I think.

I guess I will have to read the Euro2, 94/12/EC (& 96/69/EC) norm to clarify whether or not I am right.

Just because it is NEDC, doesn't mean the test is 100% identical. There were revisions to the NEDC legislation over time.

You're correct that section 46 was not included. As you can see from the template, the information which IS completed on your 2024 CoC was present on the original 1997 CoC under item 36. :)

The information missing on the 2024 CoC was not ever present on the original 1997 one.

The testing would have been conducted :)

The CoC you have obtained is a duplicate of that provided when the vehicle is new, and as such only contains the values on the original one.

On the original CoC the emissions (NOx etc) values were required, and are on the duplicate one.

On the original CoC the CO2 values were not required, which is why they are not on the duplicate one.

:)

I see. Well. I will wait and see what Volvo tells me. I guess within a few days I will know whether they will make a coc with this info or if I have to find another way.

Thanks for the help James.

According to the link you posted, I went and read all versions from 97 onwards, one by one, the first version athat included 46.2 and looked like it looks nowadays was in the year 2000.
So I guess all cars prior to 2000 will have original coc's without the emission's section as we know it today.

The question remainds whther the companies have to fill in all the info that is known about the model and is required by the coc, or if they are only supposed to print you the coc as it was originally.

I don't expect volvo to go test the model to make sure it complies with current norms. But if the value is and was known at the time, and it is required by the current form of the coc, why couldn't they include it!?

Anyways, let's see what they do/say.

I was intrigued by your figure of 244g/km and concern about future taxation regimes. In the UK, most cars over 40 years old are free of annual road tax. A legacy system is likely to remain in place until at least 2041 whereby cars first registered prior to March 2001 pay one of two rates dependent on whether their engine size is above or below 1,549cc. For Volvo 940s (above 1,549cc) this means a current annual tax bill of £325.

A different system is in place for cars first registered between 2001 and 2017. This is based on CO2 emissions. This has 13 tax bands and, if relevant, the 244g/km would put the 940 into band L with an annual bill of £675.

The regime for cars registered after 2017 has a standard annual rate of £180 for most cars although it heavily penalises more polluting vehicles in their first year. This is a rare example of UK eco-tax not being regressive.

When importing a car into the UK the CoC is not required for vehicles more than ten years old. However, if the emissions are not verifiable, even if the car is 2001 - 2017, the DVLA will sometimes put it onto the old tax regime based on engine size. This is clearly a disadvantage for a car with low CO2 emissions but, it seems, a big advantage for a larger, more polluting car.

It seems that Volvo first started (voluntarily) producing CoCs for new cars from 1995. They only became mandatory after January 1998.

Sorry, not directly relevant to your question beyond further sympathy for the need to negotiate a complex and ever-changing tax minefield.

Here, for cars until June 2007, the tax is solely based on engine capacity and fuel type.
The brackets are huge though. ABout 10 years each one. The last one is June 1996-June of 2007. Meaning a car of same specs from 96 will pay the same as one from 2006, which is completely ridiculous. From 2007 onwards there is an emissions component.
Also cars imported from within EEC/EU will maitain the same registration year. If it was from outside, my car would count has a 2024 registration and pay much, much more, because of the afformentioned emissions component. That's why you can't import old cars from Japan or USA or whatever.
Anyway, this means that, in principle, my car will pay the same, regardless of the emission values, because for cars until 2007, emissions are not considered for tax purposes.

But... and this is a BIG but, they recently tried changing the way the IUC (Circulation Tax, that's the name of the anual tax on cars) is calculated. It was a big thing, people went to the streets, there were demonstrations all over the country. Basically everyone would have to sell their cars older than 2007 because it was gonna be ridiculously expensive. The government had a majority so they didn't budge behind public pressure... "You can not make concessions when it comes to the environment", PM said. That was until weeks later the PM and several ministers were acused with several major corruptions cases... Gov. fell, elections were called and all of a sudden, the government was against their own proposed and approved tax change. PM said: "this change would be a tax on the poor, the people who cannot buy newer cars and would contribute to the impoverishment of the already struggling families"... This is true. I wish it was a joke. Portugal is a banana republic.

So, you imagine I am wary of importing a car with an official emissions value of 400g/km co2 or whatever it is going to be, because the law may change at any moment and then I would have to part the car. I would much rather keep it forever and be buried in it, thank you very much.
But, if there is no other way, there is no other way. I just have to hope for the best and that they never implement a tax that will consider emissions on cars of this age.