D5 issues, turbo adjustment
 

Hi there, back with the limp mode on my 2004 D5 v70, intercooler and VNT replaced, engine mounts bypassed but still goes to limp mode espacially when the engine reaches is normal temperature. I finally went to my volvo dealer. He found numerous codes, I told him what I did and what I replaced. He found air charge pressure problem and told me that it could be the turbo building up to much pressure. I found the TNG to be adjustable so I loosen the nut on the rod but realised that the rod needed to be unscrew and that the rod is held on a lever by a clip. It's a tight fit so does anybody knows if adjusting the rod would cure the pressure issue, I wouldn't want to waste a day working on the turbo. Thanks for your help

PS : I didn't read the codes on the Vadis software

is it possible to get the codes from the dealers.
have a read of this.

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=132443
mike

the VNT rod on the turbo is factory set matched to the individual turbo , if you tamper with this you will alter this calibration and will need a new turbo anyway as the air flow wont match the expected and will get the MIL / message up again!

Thanks for your reply, I'll will get the codes next time. The first time I went to the dealer there were approx. 7 codes on the diagram on the screen and two of them were red, the others were pink as far as I remember. They decided to reset all the codes to spot my limp mode the next time I'll have the car checked.

I've already read this excellent post, very useful and interesting :thumbs_up:, thanks for your help

This confirm my thoughts ! I'll save time then, and painstaking job !

I procedeed to all the checks Outnumbered is talking about in his post apart from the injector test, but I asked the dealer if they saw any issues / codes on their software related to injectors but all was perfectly normal to them, they asked me if my car starts immediatly engine hot or cold and if idle was smooth and it does, so they discarded the injectors problem. I do really think the vanes on the turbo are stuck or misadjusted.
My dealer also told me the air pressure was too high causing the engine to go limp mode.

thanks for your help

I do really think the vanes on the turbo are stuck or misadjusted.

to see if the vanes are stuck use a mitty vac and watch the arm this will confirm that also if you have looked in the link for the u tube video the vnt rod is smooth but the vanes are not .as for the injectors just for your info if the car starts normally hot and cold and on tickover how can you tell they are okay under load????., you can do a leak of test yourself.i no it may be awhile before you get the codes again but it will help us to try and help you . hope that helps.
mike

"to see if the vanes are stuck use a mitty vac and watch the arm"

I did it and the arm moves up and down, however I almost can't move it by hand or with a tool to help, it only moves when vacuum is applied. I also watch the arm from under the car with my wife starting and reving the engine and it moves.

"you can do a leak of test yourself"
How can I do this ?

I'll try to get the code read next week,

Thanks again for your help

usualy the vanes only stick when hot under full power so the vacuum test , and the "watch the arm move test " doesnt prove anything ... unless it is permanantly jammed of course ..

That's right Clan, what would be the next step ? I don't think measuring the stroke of the arm would be possible.... I'll try to get the codes from dealer that will help... your help is greatly appreciated !:thumbs_up:

you need to know what codes were stored .. ECM 6805 ?

I just get the code this morning from dealer. He found ECM 6805. He (the dealer) told me to come back and leave the car for a thorough troubleshooting, but it's a 2-3 hours job and would cost between £125-£225 just for the diag ! As mentionned by outnumbered (Mike) I'll have an injector leak off test done by a bosch station.
However any idea for 6805 ...

Hi there,
Well I'm still doing some test on my car and I found something weird. I went under the car to connect a vacuum gauge to compare the figures with the ones outnumbered gave us in the link above. Engine running, I have the same figures but the VNT rod is pulled to its maximum at 30 hg/cm and move downward 1cm then stops. What do you think about this short stroke ? And what do you think about the fact that it stops moving at 30hg, it means it reaches its max flow at 30hg, is it enought, too much ?
There is also some oil on the body, here's a picture, is it a sign of seal failure or normal ? Thanks for your help, advice...


http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7...40214copie.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

hi
i could only move mine on a static test to 28 hg so if you are getting the same as mine i would have thought that was okay, so start on the others, as for the oil leak that is the oil retrun pipe for the turbo you can buy the two seals easy to do.
mike

28 hg, same for me....
As read in your troubleshooting topic, I found the charge air hose soft, the engine is cold now and I can easily squeeze it, for the moment this will be the next part I'll buy.
I also spotted oil and the valve cover/air intake cover. It's greasy all around injectors 2,3 and 4 and there is oil in the injectors wells. I think the gasket may be torn apart, would it be enough to loose intake pressure and going into limp mode ?
Aside from all these questions, thanks Mike for giving me the figures you found on your car....:thumbs_up:

its not a gasket its sealing compound, you have to take all the pipes off and re seal, then you have to purchase all new pipes tad expensive as for the intake pipe if you find that its too soft then change it as that could be sucking in under load causing less boost .or you could try and strenghten it on the inside with a coat hanger so that it does not colapse but i would not do that just in case some foreign body got to the turbo.
mike

What do you call pipe tad ?

sorry, if you take off the rocker cover to re seal you have to take all the injector pipes off, they are not re usable and the cost for all is expensive.
mike

Too bad Mike, I can't reply your PM until I get 30 posts, so here's my answer !

Do you mind if I call you tomorrow, I have no time tonight. Just tell me what moment you would prefer. Tomorrow morning or afternoon would be easier for me... Keep in mind that it's easier for me to write english than talk by phone but that should be ok as far as you don't have a deep northern accent and local specific vocabulary! Lol !!

[QUOTE=fgx318;980448]Too bad Mike, I can't reply your PM until I get 30 posts, so here's my answer !

Do you mind if I call you tomorrow, I have no time tonight. Just tell me what moment you would prefer. Tomorrow morning or afternoon would be easier for me... Keep in mind that it's easier for me to write english than talk by phone but that should be ok as far as you don't have a deep northern accent and local specific vocabulary! Lol !![/QUOTE


ring me any time i am retired, i have to go shopping as SWMBO says so at 1100 so anytime before then.as for my deep northen accent ill try lol .
mike

Hello Mike and all the others,

First of all I'd like to thank you Mike for your help and all the good pieces of advice by phone, I do really appreciate.
I proceeded to all the check you told me to do as well as the softair charge hose consolidation. It helps, not completely but it does help so I ordered a brand new one and it should be there wednesday or thursday. Next step is to remove the turbo for a thorough cleaning and gaskets/seals replacement. I found affordable rebuilt kits for £70. Did anybody perform a variable nozzle turbo rebuilt, if so any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks again Mike, it was really nice from you:thumbs_up::thumbs_up::thumbs_up:

There are sellers on ebay supplying kits for £40 to £70 , I dont trust any of them . They appear to me to be selling cheap sets of parts they have put together from China and East Europe , the price of what they are selling should be £7 not £70 . The suppliers I would like to use but cannot because they will not sell directly to me are 1 Garrett - even if they would sell they charge nearly the price of a new turbo for a few bits and pieces . 2 Diesel Levante Italy - not original Garrett but good quality patten parts 3 Melett in Barnsley - supply to trade only . Try and find a good used turbo at a reasonable price , D5 turbos have sold on ebay for £50 complete so no point trying to repair one if you can get one at that price . Your turbo is worth repairing if its just the oil seals that have failed but if there is damage to the rotor blades then bin it . You will need some good quality torx type bits , not like the ones in photo which are made by Sealey with a lifetime guarantee and sheared off the first time I used them.

Bernard 333, this is the main problem with "el cheapos" parts available now !

I take my camera today and record my vacuum gauge connected in line from the "out" port of the GCV to the Vacuum regulator and you can see the readings on the following video. I don't speak very clearly in the video but you should understand. However, values are printed in the comments window.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB2-Bpe6lPM

To compare to the figures you gave me Mike, results are setting higher, espacially @idle, I read 10-12hg. What do you think about how the needle reacts from idle to 2800rpm ?

hi Fred.
i will do a test for you in the morning and a u tube video, looking at the way the vac is going it is going down and not up . compared to the figures i have posted so could you be loosing vac from there to the turbo
mike

Mike,
Thank you, I do appreciate. I post another vid tomorrow, I did a mistake with reconnecting the leaking engine mounts in the system, but figures are somewhat similar and the more speed the engine revs the less vacuum I have so the problem remains the same....GRRRRR !!!! Finally the turbo may be in good condition (it may !!). Aside from the vacuum pump, I can't see what could be the culprit, connections are limited to the minimum. Vacuum pump, hose to the TCG vacuum port, hose from the out port of TCG to the Turbo Vacuum Regulator and that is all. Hoses are leak free, TCG is new and TVR don't leak either ! Do you know if there is one or two vacuum source (compartment) in the vacuum pump, i.e. one for the brakes and another for the turbo vacuum system ?
I look forward to see your video ! Thanks again Mike for your help...

the vac pump splits provides for the brake servo and boost,so if you have a leak on the boost side or it is not providing enough vaccum it will not effect your brakes.have you connected in line from the vac pump to see what you are getting there
mike

Ok for the vacuum pump. Vacuum gauge reads 65hg @ any rpm

here's the new video, but nothing really changes from the previous one...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wswblEWt9bA

this is a test of mine at the vac pump.you can here the turbo whistle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJQPcA3USAg
mike

I think a 1cm movement in the actuator rod is approximately the full range necessary to take the variable nozzle from closed to open and if you are getting this range of movement does it not indicate that the vacuum system and actuator is ok ? The variable nozzle mechanism is not likely to be jammed but of course as said already movement in the actuator rod will not show up the vanes sticking maybe when the engine is very hot but when you take the whole thing apart its a fairly loose fitting type of setup and looks fairly reliable to me . If the internal actuator ring breaks ( it moves the bones which are attached to the vanes ) this could jam the whole thing solid but then the actuator rod would hardly be able to move at all . You could also have a situation where the actuator ring is broken but is still able to move and open and close the vanes but obviously then not in the correct way , the only way to be sure about this is taking the turbo apart , I think I would look elsewhere for the problem before doing this . The variable nozzle turbos I have taken apart are from high mileage diesels and apart from a coating of very fine soot around the bones ( no soot on the vanes ) they were ok showing no sign of wear even though the rest of the turbo was goosed .

connected to the vacuum pump, mine is building up 55hg immediatly at tickover and throughout the rpm range ! What the hell is that ?! My engine behave right the opposite, the more it gets rpm the less it creates vacuum !! I'll chech everything back from the beginning, I certainly have done something wrong...

So just to recap, connected in line from the tgc to the turbo gauge reads 55hg at tickover and starts to decrease to finally reaches 5hg at 2500 rpm. I perform a driving test but obviously, same figures. Just to be sure, hose from the vacuum pump connects to the vacuum port of the tgc and "out" port connects to the turbo, is that correct ?
And as Bernard noticed, I feel confident with the condition of the turbo and just wonders if the vacuum pump has not a problem...

heres a pic of what goes to where, is the gauge working in the opposite direction in your first vid it did show starting at zero.
mike

No Mike it started @55hg and goes to 5hg (on the video, the needle starts at 55hg on the left hand side. that is what is really odd there, vacuum decreases from idle to 2500 instead of increases.
Everything is connected according to the diagram, so no mistake here.

unless i am missing something completely stupid it should read about 5 hg or there abouts as you are on tickover. the vac pump runs off the exhaust cam so as you rev the vac must increase, thats my theory lol.
mike

in your first video the gauge needle moves up as you rev it hits furthest point in the green then starts going back .is that vac gauge okay just a thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB2-Bpe6lPM
mike

by pass the engine mounts and connect your vac gauge from the vac pump to the TCV where the engine block is and see what the figures are.
mike

Mike,
The first video is with the engine mounts connected, that's why I told you I will do another video. The second one shows figures with engine mounts bypassed.
So, yes the first video starts at 5hg and raises at 55hg @1100 rpm (which correspond to the tcv closing) and the second video starts with 55hg @ tickover.

Luckily a workmate have a 2002 s60 d5 and came today with the car. I performed a few tests and finally discovered it reacts the same way than mine apart from vacuum figures being a little bit more important (70hg @ idle). It then decreases from 70 to 35 from respectively idle to 2500 rpm.

Either I have a vacuum leak which is doubtful or the turbo has a problem as mentionned by Bernard.

going on the figures that you have said is the VAC pump giving you enough vac, so your friends car is producing 35 hg at 2500 rpm
mike

[QUOTE=outnumbered;980499]
Your a good man!


Tarquin:thumbs_up: