S60 Bi-Fuel 2003 - LPG issues
 

Hi. Can anyone help me with my 2003 Volvo S60 Bi-Fuel factory fitted LPG conversion and the current mileage 142k? I have a problem with LPG cutting off while driving on warm engine mainly (but not always). I have replaced: LPG filter as well as the LPG solenoid and nothing has changed since then. While driving on autogas the car begins to lose power (mainly warm engine) and, despite pressing the acceleration pedal the power goes down, until finally extinguished. It only allows me to drive when I immediately switch to petrol. I try to start the engine in LPG mode again and it starts but immediately revs go down and the engine goes off. I have to stop the car, switch off the engine and wait a few moments to start it in petrol mode and then I can switch on LPG again. Has anyone ever came across this issue?
I can only add a clue that it starts ok when the engine is cold and starts cutting off the LPG when becoming warm so it must have something to do with the temperature (but I'm not sure) whether it is going through reducer or somewhere else I don't know.
Please help me if you can. Thanks in advance.

Mine would have occasionally done this if I had run out of gas and refilled, it would switch over and then after a minute of 2 get on as if it had run out of gas, switch off and restart and all way well again, but only done it very occasionally after refuelling.

The car shouldn't start on LPG unless warm, even then I think it starts on petrol and switches over instantly. Only common issues with them are the gas distributor and regulator. The regulator doesn't have a temp sender in it as far as I know, it take the temp off the engine sensor and changes over at 15 degrees iirc.

It sounds very like a distributor problem for cutting out when driving if you take the loosing power out of the symptoms.

It's a Necam system, so if you search that on ebay you should come up with a new distributor or they can be rebuilt by LPG specialists for around £60.

£500 says you need a new stepper. It is NOT the dizzy per se. Common issue that Koltec/ Necam are well aware of but don't fix because it's good business.
Exchange from me at £180 + my tech support. Better than a new one for reasons I've explained many times. Leave Volvo dealers well alone. With the exception of one in Thirsk, leave most LPG specialist alone too. Me? I'd fix it myself. Very simple job.
Read the threads on this.

Then keep the dizzy clean/ fit a filter... Read the threads on this.

If you are lucky you have the the cheaper Stepper motor and don't need my Volvo only, £180 version. £48 on ebay, and you're done. Read the threads on this.

In fact... read the threads on this. Do this , and you'll soon be running fine.

Yup - I'll double it, a £1000 says it's the stepper.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STEPPER-MO...qjIMj0RZ4LJgoQ

48. Not suitable for S60 Bi-Fuel.

OK, I assume you have looked at your stepper. On some S60 & S80 you are able to use the £48.00 Stepper. Some early and some 2003 cars have this. The first 850 & V70 Bi-Fuels also ahd the cheap stepper. Have you checked? If so, you are unlucky.

You are left with the 'Volvo only' version. Identified by the flat top. It sounds like you know what they cost (usually 5-6 times the price).

I know these systems well. If you buy an unmodded (used or new) stepper from Koltec/Necam, you will see the same issues in repeat maybe 25-50,000 miles later. If not kept clean or left unfiltered, much sooner. Do NOT buy the complete dizzy, unless you are lazy and don't want to clean it, or rich. Yours will only need cleaning.

My steppers require you to pay a 'core' charge set deliberatly high to be sure I get your old stepepr back to allow me to recondition and fix the Triac that ails these. You also get my tech support (very useful when it all goes awry) and a guarantee that should my diagnosis and info be wrong, your money less couriers, is returned. You will not get this last point with other suppliers because they are 'box-shifters' only. My background is 35 years in electronics. If you blow a stepper I can usually repair quickly and easily. I am sure I knwo more about the Necam system that anyone in the world outside of Necam. LPG specialists just mindlessly swap modules and components until something works. [Where might you think I get my supply of so called 'no good' parts from?;)]

For added compliation, (read expense) the £48 stepper is not matched with the ECM in your car. The stepper motor is at the route of most of the bad-mouthing of what is otherwise a very simple system that works well, gaining a poor reputation undeserved. Clean it, correct the stepper and all works.

I don't know how to get access to the stepper/distributor. It's in really inaccessible place (bottom between engine and cooler) and has no marks to identify.

But are you sure my only need cleaning, no replace?

Clearly you want a quick-fix, one where you neither pay money or do any work. But one one where you're gleefully happy to prey on other's time? I'm afraid you're due a boll*ckin'.
So you've not gone as far as to check what you have fitted? Or where it is? Or understand too much, and certainly not act on it? We have to smile, but this doesn't bode well does it?

Happy to help... those that help themselves. You're asking questions and making points which make it clear you've not really ready to put your own effort into this, even though it comes spoon-fed via posts by me and others.

It's not been you that has to really find out the facts. Only read and understand them.
And still you don't? Can you see how you're rapidly losing anyone's sympathy?

You messaged me to say, and I quote, this is 'Important to me".

Is it?

Is it?

Really?

It'll take you an hour or two. Time well spent if you're happy to do the work yourself. Else, pay someone to do it for you.


Read the threads...

That will get you to a point where you will be in a position to make headway. Or as I said, pay someone else to take the headache from you.


Turns out, these words came out of your rectal passage. You have absolutely no idea if this is true. Instead you wasted my time?

When it is evident you've at least done some work, come back to me. Then I'll help you.

Hope is fading fast.

Good luck.

I asked about that and seller asked me for pictures of my distributor. After that, he told me "Unfortunately, you need a stepper motor type B. The stepper motor from this auction not fit for your Volvo-distributor".

Here is ONLY ONE auction with stepper motor type B to Bi-Fuel:

450? Definitely too expensive for me. Have you still got your stepper motor? If yes, how much you want for it?

It's not important where the pipes for the injectors go as it's a constant feed, remove the fan shroud from the rad and you'll have enough room to access the dizzy, held on with 2 x 10mm nuts on a bracket mounted to the engine

He is a box-shifter. He knows little. There are TWO types for Bi-fuel. Most common is Type B. Which is very pricey.
However as discussed, I sell these for £180 exchange. I would ask for £100 core charge. You have my details.

If you have read the threads, even if those from him or from Volvo were £30, you still don't want one. You want a 'modded' stepper.

I ahve six in stock.

Stepper has been replaced on Saturday at 10am. Unfortunately, 8pm same day car has been switched off first time. Today - too times. Now I don't know - faulty stepper or dirty distributor? Or something else?

Stepper has been replaced on Saturday at 10am. Unfortunately, car has been switched off first time at 8pm same day. Next - today, two times. Faulty stepper or dirty distributor? I have completely no ideas...

I strongly suggest you do soem research on this forum. This will have you asking hte correct questions rather than the wrong ones. Read pricipally my posts about cleaning, my mods, fitting filters etc etc.

Also understand how to lift the stepper and the dangers of losing inner springs and ball-berign and spacer spring washers, using PTFE etc etc.

Else you will be wasting time and money, and will come crying. You will also mash my supplied stepper. I have a reputation on this forum for supplying good information and decent parts to correct issues. I offer you the lowest priced solution however it is based on certain assumptions.

If you've not read-up, I would not be happy to supply you, 'cos it'll end in tears for which I will take the flak. Thank you for yoru understanding. Now do the work, else have a pro do the whole job. But you'll not get that for £180, and likely because he'll be getting more suspect parts, (without my mods) you'll not have a permanent solution.

Thanks for CNGBiFuel.
I bought one necam stepper from him. Worked well all last week which is REALLY BIG correction. Good feedback :-)

Thank you for that. Keep it clean, follow all my install advice as sent in with your stepper and you'll not be dealing with steppers or putting you hard-earned my way again.

Hang on, methinks shut-up. Why, oh why, am I saying this? I'll take your money all day long.

Kinda guy I am;)

[Your first core tests good, you sent x 2, at least one core deposit coming your way] Let you know on the other soon.

All my steppers get run-up in my own car for extended periods. That way, , before you see them, I'm sure they work and stay working. That particular stepper was in my car for a good 4000 miles. Sorry about eBay costs, they take £45.00 in fees via Paypal or selling fees. Come to my door next time - cheaper, quicker and no core charge.

My car is also a 2003 BiFuel, now with 164K miles, and on its third stepper motor in 9 years. The present one I just had supplied from CNG BiFuel, and the usual engine cutout problem which recently started has gone. Having followed these threads now for some time, I'm happy to recommend CNG's modified stepper motor. The first time I had the stepper replaced, I was told by an independent lpg garage that they only last a few years, and he was right. I'm grateful to CNG for taking the time to look into this problem.

The Volvo Necam Stepper Motor (Type B
 

I have contacted the forum Admins and had no reply.
I assume they do not see my as a trader per se. I sell these for less on here than on eBay simply because eBay charge me £40 odd per sale.
I'm pleased the admins took my suggestion to change the title of this section to include CNG LNG etc. After all Volvo can claim all credit, Volvo WERE the volume manufacturer PIONEERS in this technology.

Glider only - Thank you glider. I understand you had rough running at 3000ish rpm too, this would not be a stepper issue, please ring me if this side of the car has not been sorted. I strongly suspect 1-2 dicky coil-packs (a known issue) or tired, silly snake-oil LPG or multipoint plugs, or a combination of these. I owe you a core deposit. You will see this in the next day or so.

For the rest of you...


Necam (Necam now known as Koltec) Volvo Type B Stepper Motor


If your Bifuel randomly cuts out...
It is highly likely it is the stepper motor. A known issue. Whereas, initial starting issues (from COLD) or rough running, would indicate problems with your regulator and/or distributor, starting issues HOT, after cutting out, would more often be your stepper.

HIGHLY UNLIKELY YOU NEED A WHOLE DISTRIBUTOR.
This is a myth put out by Volvo because they sell boxes, and had no clue about the real issues and selling the complete assembly (@£8-900+) got rid of customers for another 25,000 miles. At main dlealer level Volvo know little. See your local LPG specialist. Back in the day, Volvo often subb'ed these jobs out to them. Event the specialists would swap the dizzy in blind hope.

Without my mod this is correct.

Replacement of stepper, and cleaning is a DIY task, I detail at the foot of this page, how to change your stepper. Unless you have well on 200K+ miles you will not need a new distributor. Even then, kept soaked in GT85, and clean they cope.

I recondition these and correct the ongoing fault with Necam Stepper motors.
I correct the Triac issue, Necam are well aware of this problem, however for clear reasons they don't fix it.
I've had owners come to me on their second and third distributor / stepper. Young 'glider' here, is I'm afraid, typical. This mod fixes the problems with Volvo BiFuels permanently.

Also as part of this service I offer you my wealth of experience to fault-find your Volvo and prevent recurring issues. Very simple and reliable, the Necam system is maligned simply because few understand them.

My steppers after modding fit CNG & LPG Necam distributors fitted to Volvo S70 V70 S60 S80 with the flat top stepper motor . There are two types of stepper motor by Necam. Not to be confused. This is the Volvo specific model. Often called a Type B.

See Red Cross indicated pic. Shown by red cross, is the non-Volvo Type A, you will not receive a Type A. Type B has a flat top.


My steppers and my support.
Either way, you have my experience in solenoid set-up, regulator management , what to clean, what to replace and general fault-finding of your Necam system. 15 mins of my time if you collect, and up to three phone calls of my time if you need to call me. I will walk you thru' fixing your Volvo Bifuel. My knowledge is such that you will be able to fix your LPG/CNG Volvo.

Outside of Necam, I have a greater understanding of these systems than any in Europe. Other sellers are box-shifters, and/or whole-unit-swappers.


Changing your stepper motor.
On post 2000 models, the Necam stepper got moved from a simple to get at place on the bulkhead on pre 2000 to between the radiator and the block.

One for grazed knuckles this...

On 2001-2005 era S80 S60 V70s, with the car running on gas disconnect the solenoid cable under the air box to purge the system of gas. Reconnect before you forget.

Disconnect battery. The distributor is close to some chunky cables that can supply lots of amps if you put a spanner in the wrong place!

Clamp the lower power-steering hose near the pump and disconnect the top hose and move out of the way. (Don't get oil in the alternator) Unbolt the dip stick pipe (10mm socket]. You don't have to remove it but it's easier if you do. Remove the pipes and cables and undo the 2 nuts on the distributor / engine bracket / rubber mount. Careful here, the rubber might be perished. If you do shear the rubber mount, Demon Tweeks Part No. FSEFPA905 - Facet Fuel Pump Mount x 2 will fit). Leaving the bracket on the distributor might be easiest. Remove; some jiggling required. Knuckles will be in fine order about now. Do not smoke!

Make sure the outside of the stepper motor is clean, if you get dirt into the distributor on removal of the stepper, the bill is some £400.

Remove 2 x 3mm Allen bolts and remove stepper motor. Careful here. Two reasons, 1) Shaft of stepper easily bent. I won't want it back if you bend it. 2) A large spring washer about the size of a 2p bit, a large compression-spring, and if you’re unlucky a ball-bearing will fly about. Watch yourself.

Unclip piston from spring on motor’s piston/plunger-tip (note which way up piston goes - deeper side away from stepper to accomodate large compression-spring). Remove clip-spring on old motor plunger-tip and assemble on new motor. Watch for the O-ring sitting on the neck of the stepper (usually Brown in colour).

The stepper was likely fried because of dirt loading the motor, the distributor probably needs the slots cleaning, these are not easily seen but are down the distributor barrel. Pour some Wynns/Comma injector-cleaner (Wynns because it’s the same stuff and cheaper than STP) into the distributor. Fill to 5-10mm from top. Put a large coin, (2p piece is good) over the opening and let it soak 3-4 hours or overnight. 2p is there to stop dirt and injector-cleaner evaporating.

On P1 pre 2000 cars getting the motor off is quicker, this makes it easy enough to start the car running petrol and when it flips to LPG/CNG and floods, let it stall on the injection cleaner. Reattempt starting and the injector cleaner will clear. Drive 20-30 miles to let cleaner clear and pull the stepper off again and lubricate piston with GT85 PTFE. Do not use WD40 or any other lubricant containing silicon. You risk contamination of your Lambda o2 sensors.

Because firing the car up on P2 models is not so simple at this point I suggest a Turkey baster to syphon out the excess Injector cleaner. Then GT85 PTFE spray the piston, making sure the injector cleaner does no dilute the PTFE. If you're that keen, do this in 20-30 miles as you would a P1.

Make sure pistons etc is spotlessly clean before reassembly. Don't bend the motor sliding the piston in. Expensive if you do.

Put it back together and check for leaks.


TWO WARNINGS
1) LPG is dirty, dirty stuff which produces heavy-ends to clog your distributor and thus fry your stepper motor. Applies to CNG to a lesser extent.

Getting to the stepper motor and soaking with a 2p cap is best, but pouring injector cleaner down the low-pressure pipe from the regulator is fair substitute. it will certainly make for better running and keep the stepper from overloading, hence frying.

Fire injector cleaner in there and let it soak every 6-10,000 miles. I do mine at 5,000 (earlier vehicle so easy to do]. Fail to do this, and if the erratic supply (or last year nil supply) and high prices are anything to go by, next time you won't be able to source its replacement, let alone, easily or cheaply. Volvo stopped selling cars with this stepper motor eleven years ago, and didn't sell vast numbers then. How long can it be before this part is declared obsolete at any price?

2) Some are not fitted with a filter between the regulator and the distributor. These are £4.00 (£90.00 from Volvo). Fit one. Check this, if I recall -16mm.

There is a design flaw within the stepper that means that they will often go wayward. This I fix for you, better than new. Follow my advice and I can assure you, Volvo Bifuels are very decent vehicles, which with clean fluids, will do mad mileages. Thye'll not crumble away before your very eyes, unlike a Merc (and some Beemers) of the same vintage.

There's a few more known issues that appear on these vehicles at around 90-140,000.
Those that spring to mind are PCV, cambelt, an auto gearbox flush, heater core and ETM (on 1999-2000 MY) - all DIY jobs. Flush your autobox tomorrow if you own a 2001-2003. Attend to them and you'lll see another 100,000 miles before they need doing again. Hence you own one of the cheaper cars to run on the road today.

Read diagnosis carefully. To repeat:
If from COLD the car runs sweet and even, your regulator and distributor are likely OK. When HOT or COLD if running rough you have either:

1) A coil pack going. A known issue at 90,000 miles and over. Easy to swap.
2) Plugs getting tired or set over 0.7mm. Leave snake oil multi-point and LPG plugs alone. Good quality single point Denso or NGK are best, and far cheaper. Low-spec plugs changed often is better.
3) Dirt in distributor. This will cause lumpy running, poor starting or poor changeover. Clogged, your distributor gives your stepper motor more work to do. So likely frying it, Hence as the car gets warmer you see more cutting out. Cutting out is almost always the stepper. Which is why you are reading this.

The problem comes when you have a combination of clogged distributor, worn plugs/coil packs, these will all show lumpy running or poor starting. The stepper motor will be causing the cutting out. No amount of cleaning / plugs etc etc will help you if the distributor has got dirty enough to damage the stepper and cause cutting out.

Many of you have seen stepper motor issues before. You’ll recognise the symptoms. More Tech support when you buy. I can help with distributor/regulator set-up and ECU issues. My unit fits your car if your stepper has a plain flat top. The two types are not compatible. Flat top is Volvo only.

In short, poor starting HOT or COLD is unlikely to be your stepper motor, injector cleaner used at intervals will sort most issues, if not, (assuming you've decent plugs and coil-packs] regulator and solenoid issues is where I'd be looking next. However... random cutting-out? No amount of cleaning will have you escape this, this si a battle you will lose, you need this stepper to win- remember to clean as above before you install. Do this and a few other DIY tasks and your car is good for 300,000+ miles. I do 45-60,000 a year (55,000 last year) in mine.
All stepper sold after rewoking get a stint in my own car for a minimum of 800 miles to be sure your stepper works under all conditions.

Follow the guide I provide with your stepper to the letter (especially about periodic cleaning) and these steppers will not trouble you again. Ignore it and sob into your beer;)

Good luck

Hello everyone!


I have been referred to this forum by CNGbifuel. I don't know if I should start a new thread as I will just mark it the same with the same car and almost the same problem.

Mine don't go to lpg while its cold (just die on a changeover). It goes to LPG while it is warmed up and stationery without any problem and could work for some time, if you start to drive the car is shakes and die shortly. If i press accelerator to the ground it stops but works with great struggle and misfires a lot while slowing down to completely stationery. After reading CNGBifuel's write up I concluded that its not a stepper problem, but something different. I saw a vacuum pipe rubber thing to be split. Yesterday after changing vacuum pipe and the one that goes to vapour filter, after setting the gap on spark plugs to 0,7 problem still there, but I was able to drive LPG on warmed up engine for quite a while now. It is an improvement but not a fix. Now when on lpg it drives normal only on fully warmed up engine until it start behaving like a petrol engine with a faulty fuel pump: it shakes and chokes etc.

After a couple of misfires a weird message appeared asking me to slow down or shift up. Later I found out that ignition coil is dead now.

Does anyone knows how to bleed the whole system of LPG? I tried to remove main line that goes from the tank, but it still full of liquid LPG despite removing the negative from the battery.

What is the type of filter that is sitting beside the solenoid on the main line that goes to the vaporiser?

I do apologise for the write up as English is not my native language and yesterdays vodka still not helping to remember how to write properly.

Any advice is much appreciated!

Good news everyone! I changed that ignition coil and it made no difference to the LPG neither it was expected. I drove today to Bristol which is about half an hour drive and tried to push that "petrol" button to make the car run on LPG. First time I drove exactly one mile on LPG going 70mph before it start to lose power and I clicked it back to petrol. Second time I did 10 miles before it started to lose power again and yet again I switched it manually to petrol. When I approached m32 roundabout I switched it back to LPG and drove all 5 miles of m32 without any issues. After a quick drive in Bristol I went to Yate using LPG without any problems again. In Yate, where I work, I went to the car to check it out after 5 hours. It started on petrol but stalled when it decided that its time to go to LPG now. After another 4 hours I tried again and yet again it stalled. Then I drove on petrol to m32 again(about 10 miles) and clicked it to LPG. It did and I drove without any issues to Bristol and then back to Gloucester without ANY issues. When I stoped a car and waited for about 5 min I tried it again and again it went to LPG with slight drop in rpm for a second and then continue to idle on LPG.

After all this I think that the problem with my car is nothing to be connected with dreaded stepper motor issue (BIG thank you CNGBifuel for your VERY informative write up). I am thinking that all gunk that is inside of the evaporator unit becomes solid as the car is getting cold and then prevent diaphragms to do its job, but when the car worms up it becomes more flexible and it works as it expected. I will try to rebuild that evaporator unit as soon as the repair kit will be delivered.

WHERE I can buy a manometer in this country? It seems almost impossible to find one that will not cost a fortune....

Is this a double post? Rather than create a mess, shall we delete and start again?

We can, but basically I got the same car with similar problems. If another person will come with the same car and system it will be really simple to find rather than search thought different posts. Anyway I am new here and don't know how its done on this forum :)

On one of the Russian LPG forums I fount a thread where all koltec-necam problems and solutions are spread over 60 pages :)

Speak to your local plumber. They are used for testing for leaks on gas pipework. I've just had an LPG Jotul stove installed at home and the pipes were pressurised with a digital manometer attached so any drop in pressure could be detected. You can buy a traditional manometer very cheaply from a plumbers merchant. This one is just £16: https://www.transtools.co.uk/hand-to...as-tester-30mb

OK, an answer over 60 pages, and you want to take part in making more of the same... now you've explained it, makes sense.

Hello CNGBiFuel !
I came around your post in this forum about the problem with the stepper motor on Bi-Fuel systems. I have the exact same problem with my Volvo. The engine cuts off randomly on CNG when the car is hot. It's on 220k kilometres. I went to a guy who is very famous in my country with the understanding and abilities to fix all Volvo Bi-Fuel cars and he changed 3 different stepper motors on my car with no success. He said that the problem maybe in the computer which is responsible for the CNG and he offered me to change all the electronic and the injectors for the CNG. The thing is that I don't want to do that! :confused_smile: I want my car to be as it is from the Factory...
Do you think that my problem is the stepper motor,or there is a possibility to be the CNG computer?
Thanks a lot for your help!

The big issue with the facory system is diagnosis. 90% of problems come down to the stepper. When it isn't, many of the other issues, unless you know it well enough, are difficult to diagnose.

If your specialist has put that many steppers on and still these don't give you at least 10,000 miles motroing, the issue is not the stepper.

Then it gets difficult and pricey to diagnose. If steppers do not solve the problem, often it becomes quicker and easier to remove the Necam system.

If you were here in the UK, I would speak to you. Without me to fault-find it, I think you have little choice but to remove the Necam system.

Thanks a lot for your fast answer!
The thing is that he tried with one second hand (but recycled motor), and the problem was the same, even worst, than he put another motor, but this time some different one which didn't had its own electronic, but separate one. That one didn't work too. Than he tried to fix my own, but without success,so that's why he think the problem is in the computer... If it's the computer, than maybe is some bug in the system which can be fixed if I remap the computer, or I'm wrong?
Sorry if I ask stupid questions! If I was in UK I would defiantly come to you! Unfortunately I'm too far... :(

I'll try to fix it my self :)
 

Hey! Thanks once again for your answer! And thanks a lot for taking your time to make the "FAQ Faults & Tips for factory Volvo Bifuel LPG / CNG" topic!

I read all you've wrote at "FAQ Faults & Tips for factory Volvo Bifuel LPG / CNG" and I think, that maybe my problem is the stepper motor too. I decided to try cleaning my distributor and the stepper motor first and then if the situation is the same I'll have no choice, but to change my electronic and the injectors...
I only have few questions. Is there some instruction somewhere on how to clean the stepper motor? I know that it has a problem with the soldering of the electronic where the heat plays big role and I plan to re-solder some points there (I have some background in electronics and I think I can do it),but is there something else that I have to clean on the stepper itself? Do I have to disassemble the motor?
And last one :) Do you have any idea, where is located my CNG computer? I saw some pictures in "FAQ Faults & Tips for factory Volvo Bifuel LPG / CNG",but didn't saw and I'll try to located my self, but in case you know, will be much easier for me.My car is Volvo V70 2006...
Thank you! :)

I did it :)
 

I did it :) I think I've fixed my problem :) I cleaned the distributor as shown in"FAQ Faults & Tips for factory Volvo Bifuel LPG / CNG" topic by CNGBiFuel and the most important I've fixed the stepper motor by re-soldering few points in the electronic, where I found problems! I think, that the main problem with the stepper motor comes with the electronic, because of the intense heat generated from the engine... because of the heat some of the soldering were broken...
It was relatively easy job :)
I drove more than 200 km without any issue. I really hope that my problem is fixed for long time ahead :)
A really BIG thanks to CNGBiFuel for the detailed information about cleaning the distributor!!!

I have been in a lot of lpg vehicles and to be honest I would say that’s normal.EML illuminates all the time, smell of gas, poor running. And all so you can save 10 quid a week whilst paying out hundreds in repairs.

When will people learn!

Sorry, but I have to disagree :) in my country I save almost triple the price than on petrol! :) I go 100km with 140kmh for 3 euros :) You can't do that on petrol or diesel, even if you drive with 90kmh :)
And I didn't spend to much for reaper on my car. I've spend les than 10 euros for some sprays and 2 hours of my time to clean the system :)

Someone is just upset they were either using a crap LPG installer or just buying old cars with issues