Lowering...would you do it? or do it again on your next car?
 

I know some of us do love a bit of lowering (including myself albeit with the MX5). I am definitely a convert in that respect and am glad I got it done (even if it was me going I will ignore the bill entirely).

Those that have not done it would you consider it?

Those that have done it which route have you followed? Spring only? Shocks and springs replaced or coilovers?

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I must admit for the some the MX5 of course is already a "lowish" car so some would question why lower it but it kill arch gap appearance wise and slot some Bilstein B6 and Eibach springs on was the best move I have made (along with full geo).

I know plenty in the MX5 world that have one caveat to lowering which is speed humps that obstacle that you used to have no problem with is now a massive challenge and headache to be taken a ultra slow speed...my personal experience is an absolute hatred of train stations where generally I can be found gently making contact with one particular undershield (now needing to replaced as it is showing some light wear and tear as in slightly bent at one edge).

So my overview is probably it is worth it you just have to adapt sometimes (and pee off some other road users who want to take a giant speed hump at silly speeds).

For an R-design Volvo I'd say no.

It's plenty stiff enough and will out corner a Merc SLK round a 270 degree bend (slip road) with the vector braking.

With speed humps and the state of the roads I can't see any benefit unless you do track days on a regular basis but then a 2.0 litre diesel would probably not be high on your buying list.

As someone who puts comfort at the top of my list then no is my answer. I am also heading higher in my cars rather than lower. We are heading in opposite directions.

Mine is an R-Design so it's already 10mm lower.

Personally though, it's not the tarmac to car height that you look at that gives a good impression, it's how well the wheels fill the arches. That's why I'm moving from 240/40R18 to 245/45R18 tyres. They fill the arches better, will offer more comfort and the height difference from the tarmac is negligible. (It actually raises the car back up 10mm to standard height.)





ps, yes I know all about different tyre sizes affecting the speedo so no lectures please.

Simon if you remove Hollie from the car then you would be at normal height :lol:

For looks the V70 does seem to be a little too high on it's springs as standard, but with the roads around here being so appalling I think I'll stay at standard height.

Only reason I'd go lower is to improve the handling, but many cars are so stupidly stiff as a result of being so heavy these days that's it's irrelevant.

I've lowered cars in the past and would again. Shocks and springs usually, but for the clio I'll probably go for a set of adjustable coilovers at some point.

I've done it before on most of my cars a lot of the time it was for looks, some of the time it was for handling and on my subaru it was the fact that the standard suspension was poorly made and failed a lot, so I switched that to coilovers. If I was to do it again and I'll be honest I probably will then I'll be going down the route of good quality coilovers again it really made the car a whole lot better

I like the fact that my s70 is as standard, no modifications at all, everything is as standard but If I purchased a second car, a car more sporty in design and setup then I would consider having the lowered if it improved the handling, but wouldn't do it just for appearance.

I've lowered most of my cars from a little to a lot however with the daily S80 (2001) I am just about to fit some uprated dampers and will also fit some stiffer springs but keep the factory ride height. It is silly soft and does not take the bumps so well because it is too soft.

Springs and dampers are the best way for a road car. Coilovers have a lot of comprimise and not so good for a road car. Coilovers on a road car are only for when you want a big drop

Hmmmm. Manufacturers spend millions developing suspensions to provide the optimum performance relative to the intended use of of the vehicle. Unless the vehicle is going to be used for purposes outside that design parameter, I would need to be convinced that I could improve on the manufacturers efforts.

I fitted Eibach springs to my Focus ST. It was a factory mod that was available from Ford, as was developed with them. I also added adjustable rear camber bolts to bring the camber back into line. A geo was done and the new springs seem actually not as harsh as the original, so they are quite progressive. They lower the front by 25mm and the rear by 30mm, IIRC. I also uprated the rear ARB with a Whiteline one at the same time, so I cant comment on just spring changes and cornering, but now the back end doesn't roll at all, when pushed. I have set the adjustable arb to be firm.
So a factory mod, that betters the standard suspension...........
I wouldn't lower the XC or change the springs over the R ones. Its not that type of vehicle.

I noticed the other day that the V70 sits a tad high, or at least looks like it does but its not really worth the cost of lowering it as I cant see the arches when Im driving it.

Lowered properly on correctly spec springs and dampers yes.
Cutting springs or eBay springs on stock dampers no.

Dropped about 40mm off the back of my p1v70 and got rid of the burst nivos, and it rides perfect.
Front however my springs are a bit too much for the dampers, prob by 15-20% so quite crashy and uncomfortable. New dampers will cure it.

Could go a fair bit lower again but it's a daily driver that had no intention of track use so no point.

I'm also a believer in the manufacturers getting it right. OK, they have to design in compromises (comfort v handling v road quality etc), but usually they're pretty good. Whenever I've lowered a car, its by using alternative parts from the manufacturer - so to lower a V70 I'd fit the 'R' suspension pack. You know they've spent millions in getting it 90% right for 90% of drivers, and the parts will be of good quality and will bolt straight on.

The only time I fitted non manufacturer branded suspension was when I fitted some Koni shocks & springs to a Rover 800 Turbo Vitesse (it was a long long time ago lol). It ruined the car - it was crashy, hard riding and because of the lack of composure, it was actually worse handling than before. I've never fitted aftermarket suspension since - it was an expensive mistake. (The parts were the correct spec for the car according to Koni - I complained about them to no avail).

I've never tried coilovers, but they do have a good reputation if you get it right. The main caveat being that people who fit them are usually people who drive the vehicles harder than average - so are maybe a bit more forgiving of ride quality??? Just a random thought :)

I've driven a few cars with suspension modifications and without exception it makes them worse road cars, and sometimes by a long way. For something going on a nice smooth track then as a previous poster has stated you are changing the purpose of the vehicle so that is a different matter.

What a lot of home modifying amateurs seem to totally forget is that what is good for ride quality is good for handling, and anything too stiff will be slower and much more unpleasant to drive on an actual road, let alone these morons you see in shabby old 15 year old golfs pogoing along over every ripple in the road. Also I do not see the point in buying a Volvo, any Volvo they have ever made, and trying to make it into something sporty by ruining the suspension - you're just smashing a square peg into a round hole, and the same goes for any lardy saloon car or hatchback.

My previous four cars were MX-5's these were as follows;

1991 1.6 J Limited with FMll Turbo and Lowered Spax Suspension.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps83e77652.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps3d9f03a5.jpg

2001 1.8 Sport which I lowered with MeisterR Coil Overs I found these Coilover too hard for road use.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/IMG_0762.jpg

It went from this

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/IMG_1181.jpg

To this

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/IMG_0876.jpg

I then had a 2010 Sport Tech that remained standard even though it looked like a 4x4.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...psbd7fc7cd.jpg

I then bought a 2006 2.0i Sport.

That went from this

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps2a31ef25.jpg

To this

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps6160aed7.jpg

This was achieved with Ohlins DFV Coilovers.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...pse08500ed.jpg

So based on my history of modifying cars, would I lover a Volvo?

Not on your life, the whole point of a Volvo is it's ride quality.

It looks ok as it is

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps51fccdb6.jpg

I had a flat tyre on mine the other day (1996 V70 20v), and couldn't get a trolley jack under it. So no, I wouldn't-it's plenty low enough already.

I lowered my old E320cdi.

From standars sport spec springs and shocks to Eibach 20mm shorter springs and Bilstien B12 dampers.

Ride was better actually as there was less pitch and drive, car out handled M3's and Boxsters and used less fuel as there was less drag as it was lower.

Probably was dealing with the negative camber issues, it was a nightmare trying to get it within spec and took multiple attempts at allignment. Any time you hit a speed bump the wheel would hit the front arches denting them. I gave up on the car in the end and moved it on. Shame, other than the rust (a Mercedes thing) and engine faults, it was by far the best car I ever owned and drove.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8293/...86789ec2_c.jpgDSC_0811 by SFTPhotography, on Flickr

Haha, I had this last week, some scrote put screws under my tyres. Thankfully only one went through. With the car empty I happened to have a trolley jack in the boot but couldn't get it under any jackable parts of the car, so had to use the stock scissor jack (death jack) to get the car high enough to get the trolley jack under it.

Im not a chav
I dont live on a council estate.
If I wear a hat its the right way around.
A doughnut is a squishy bun with jam, not the remains of someones tyres
I rarely eat a burger, let alone leave half of it in Halfrauds car park
Wat de ef dus dis meen ?

I lowered my T4, not for looks, but because it seriously lacked the handling that I thought a 'quick' car should have.

With the lowering and strut brace the car is so much better than it was when I got it. More planted around bends and much better when the brakes need to be put on hard when people doing stupid things - Less body roll. I've thought about making the move over to coil overs but unfortunately there are a lot of speed bumps around here and it just wouldn't clear them :(

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8630e616.jpg

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2e75e8a4.jpg

The wheel gap on all R-Designs is way too big IMO. It looks daft - We have a 2009 T5 R-design and there's a massive amount of space on them!

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...psb52d2c60.jpg

Wow some comments here are hilarious. Mention lowering a car and suddenly you're a chav who enjoys revving up in car parks. Also this rubbish that manufacturers got it right so it doesn't meed to be messed with. If they got it so perfect then why do many of them then lower the cars further with stiffer suspension and call it a sport pack, gti, r design or whatever?...its not hard really. Science dictates that with a lower centre of gravity then a car will handle better. Sure you can go past that and have suspension too hard that the car crashes and skips over bumps with terrible ride quality but with quality components then you cant really go far wrong.

Ive lowered every single car Ive ever owned and not once have I ever died, broken my spine from the ride quality or wobbled off into the abyss. Guess that makes me a chav with no clue? Ill go sit in a car park and rev my engine now.

Daily: Volvo V40 T4 - Lowered on H&R springs with a Whiteline rear ARB and strutbrace
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ps2s7cf2vx.jpg

Project: Volvo 240. Lowering springs. Uprated anti roll bars. Polybushes suspension. Extra strut and body braces, uprated shocks. It handles nothing like a stock 240 (it handles!) and its low driving a cloud in comfort.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...psro0ixyct.jpg

Now recoil in Horror. My BMW E36. Its incredibly low on coilover suspension and to be honest, its actually really comfortable (apart from the bucket seat) and from its ride quality I would honestly dare people to notice it was lowered if I took them for a blind folded drive in it.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ps8cfvbefp.jpg

My old mans 740, 245, 244 and all those Volvos handled like a stick in ****. They rolled like hippos in mud, they had no control, traction was crap and that's the 'standard' suspension.
My ST had quite unnerving back end roll during fast ( non chav manoeuvres) on roundabouts, which made the front lean and the start of open diff traction lights glimmering. The fitting of 'lowered' Eibach springs and a whiteline rear arb, complete neutralised this affliction the standard suspension had. If the standard suspension was good enough for the car manufacturer, it wouldn't have fitted stiffer ARB, lower springs on the Focus RS, as the ST would be fine.
We prefer a slightly stiffer ( not that you would actually notice) but less vomit inducing roll in our cars, as we do 'use' our cars and can feel when the limit is getting close, which by changing these parts has pushed that limit a bit further on. Next stage is coilovers, but that's not where I want the car to go towards and I am happy with the workings of the suspension it now has.

http://i58.tinypic.com/ke9iyo.jpg

I have no issues with trolley jacks, but my mate has to use one particular car hoist to get under the sills to get it off the ground. Just a boring old focus, to be honest:car:

Well said Antz! I agree with most of what you said.

Car companies do indeed spend a lot of money setting up cars' suspension but then so do the suspension companies themselves! They're the experts, not the car's manufacturer!

Yes, there are some people out there that seem to think a stiffer car is a better car and in some cases that simply isn't true, too stiff for a bumpy road etc and you simply aren't going to have contact with the road and just skip across losing traction and grip!

I've experienced the above first hand in a friend's car. Standard old shocks with cheap Apex lowering springs. Really really ruined! Totally no comfort or sophistication whatsoever! Mind, the car didn't exactly handle well beforehand anyway, this was done for looks only as it did look completely daft before. The steering has a nicer feel to it and it turns in better than before but a part from that... ruined!

I, a week or so ago fitted KW coilovers to my V70. So far, apart from ground clearance issues, I'm yet to find a negative. I've driven the car in all conditions and roads and so far so goo.
I've got them set very low with the rebound set about halfway with the rear set one or 2 turns stiffer than the front and the ride is only very marginally less comfortable than before. The rear suspension was way too soft before and the car felt like it was kneeling at the rear during sudden directional changes and fast tight cornering.
With the standard suspension it simply was not possible to really reach the limits of the tyres without throwing it around like a nutter. Now though the car is so much more confidence inspiring that the limits are within reach without the feel of being a scrote, the limits are definitely higher too. The car just corners flatter, moves around the road with more poise and and is so much more 'pointable'. Very happy with the car's newly found dynamic abilities....

....plus it looks badass :thumbs_up:

I admit though, I was one of those 'morons in a 15yo Golf bouncing the road' and that did handle like crap. I bought it with **** coilovers on it.

So, the point here is do it right and there are many many benefits, do it wrong and you will be crying!

Car manufactures design for the 95th percentile. I.E. the most average man (yes man not woman), 5'10, 75kg, average proportions, average habits, average driving ability, average desires and perspectives etc etc.

Everything about a car is designed to satisfy that person, as that is a good proportion of your market no matter the segment.

Factory ride height for a given market (Euro/US/SA/SMEA) are different to reflect the quality of their roads.

Europe has the lowest factory ride height.

However, Europe is a big place. You have countries like Bosnia and Croatia which have impeccable new, smooth roads with less than 10 potholes in each country, and at the opposite end of the scale you have mid-Scotland, who's roads are reminiscent of a years long, internal, hard all destructive warzone*.

So ride height must reflect the state of the average road that the car will be expected to face in that market.
In almost all cases, you can go lower, not firmer, beefier ARB's and bushs and not at a noticeable cost to ride quality and compliance. Although if you do it wrong, with spring/damper/ARB/bush combo's that are not suited (and do not think for a minute just buying (e.g.) Koni dampers + springs from the same product line means they will be matched/suitable for purpose), the ride will be spine crushing, the car will wallow AND crash, and it'll still roll around and try to tear its own tyres off whilst actually not being that quick around a corner.


*nope I have not got that wrong. Bosnia has better roads that central Scotland. And I have the three bent wheels to prove it.

///Car industry//Road maintenance rant /over

I have lowered many cars over the years, I had a nova with -40mm springs which wasn't too bad, a little reboundy but manageable, I also lowered my mx5 with -60mm lowering springs, and while I know it's hard to envisage, try to conjour up what a car pogo stick hybrid would be like, and we are just about there, the worst thing ever to appear in my life.

After that I went down the coilover route, both with my bmw e46 320d and also my e36 328i sport, and no matter how low I went (and believe me, I had both cars very very low at times!) although the ride obviously stiffened the lower I went, i experienced little if any crashy bouncy behaviour like I had with springs, and I never went for big names either, FK tuning ones on the 328 and tuningart ones on the diesel, fully adjustable ride height that's none too shabby for about 150 quid, can't go wrong if you ask me.

Never done it, probably never will at my age! Wrecks the ride.

Reckon the majority of manufacturers have got the suspension more or less sorted so why mess with it? I mean they have spent millions developing it haven't they? Not sure I could better it with a few spanners and a couple of hundred quid.

If a person wants a car that 'hugs the tarmac' then buy one that is designed to be but just a cm away!!!

Regards

Manufactures get it wrong very often. Look at the problems with the early Audi TT and the Merc A class as examples of cars that badly went wrong.

Some cars come from the factory with suspension that is far to hard for most UK roads with things like the MG's and any car that was setup on the Nuremberg ring will be overly harsh.

Why is it that the normal 850 has different suspension to a T5? Why did the police use different suspension again?

Different road surfaces will need a differnt suspension setup to get the most from the car but in 99% of cases what the manufacture sent the car out with will be no where near what is ideal

This, or even not lowering but just replace the suspension with some really good quality coil overs. The S60 is already quite low to the ground, and also the bushes in the suspension components are already quite under stress, even more so if the car is lowered.

No.

That is all.

Have I done it, yes. This has been the first and only time so far I've modified a car. But I did a lot of researching first before taking the plunge.

Why; partly looks, partly to improve the handling.

Am I happy with the outcome; yes. It suits ME not you.

Would I do it again: maybe; depends on the car, my circumstances. I'd do my research , make my decision, live with the consequences.

I modify many things in MY life: the house, the garden, computers, operating systems, home theatre, bikes. I am an individual. If you don't like what I do, tough. I'm not forcing you to do the same, nor would I expect vice versa.

Thank heavens for those that do like to tinker, modify and play with their life. I can't think of how it would be otherwise. Booorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring.

The day I start worrying about a few inches gap between car body and wheel, will likely be when I have a mid life crisis and use just for men.

Although there's no denying on certain cars it looks slick yet I've just installed a new front suspension using oem specs and my 98 s70 runs like a dream so people can talk about science yet I've been in lowered sport cars, such as Supras, Audis and they run like **** over regular roads.

Ride quality is a personal preference, as is styling, that's why these sectors make big profits yet for the most part I'll rather listen to the car manufacturers on what offers the best ride quality for the car they produced.

lowering a car is not something I would consider these days, with all the pot holes and speed restricting humps and bumps installed on the roads I think its more likely my XC70 will need even more ground clearance.
Mind you have had some laughs watching the local boy racers trying to get on or off the estate in their lowered cars now that all roads have numerous speed humps installed.