164E non-starter
 

Have been nipping in and out dodging showers, trying to make my 164E fire. Last used only 3 days ago when all was fine, it refused to fire at all yesterday, so put the battery on charge overnight as I hurt it a bit.
Car has all new electrics, courtesy Brookhouse: coil, condenser, cap, rotor and leads all replaced about 600 miles ago. However, suspected hairline crack in cap so put old one back on (worked so kept as spare), ditto rotor and condenser as wasn't sure if the spark when flicking points was bluish indicating condenser failure: nothing. Plugs were wet so cleaned and dried (only 800 miles old) and checked for spark - OK. Ditto king lead to earth - sparked fine when whizzed over. Also checked fuses under-bonnet - again all OK. I also sprayed high-octane stuff down the manifold but not a flicker.
I see from Haynes manual they suggest auxiliary air regulator and cold start valve may be faulty, but as the car was fine when I switched it off, have any of you any ideas what else to try (its certainly cold enough here to warrant cold-start virtues) - but not even a cough, implying either fuel or electricity I reckon. I have a locking fuel cap so the local scum couldn't have put some wrapped sugar lumps in my tank (as happened on my old Ford decades ago) thus lowering the octane rating.
Any ideas where I go now gratefully received.

Paul

is the cold start injector actually working ? take it out and crank , it should spray for a few seconds whilst you crank then cut out …( whilst you are still cranking) It could be spraying too much fuel in and flooding the plugs again .

Assuming your plugs were wet with unburnt fuel, 'Triple-S', petrol is presumably being injected when cranking the motor. I've had plugs that have seemed fine when flashed against the head, but which refused to fire under load. It would indeed be unusual for all six to simultaneously exhibit this fault, however. Do you have a known spare set that you could substitute. I've never had dealings with a 164E, but recall that my 145E was very sensitive to plugs and only ever really liked Bosch.

I must admit that the sudden onset of the problem is more indicative of a sudden component failure, and can only suggest that you once again systematically check through the fuel and electric systems in a bid to identify the culprit. I am sorry that I cannot be more helpful.

Regards, John.

Indeed the bosch plugs were and still are essential for the older turbo engines , Another point the battery needs to be fully charged connected to the charger at all times when you are there doing your test starts and diagnosing ..

Thanks to John and Clan for advice: now I'm back from shopping (not in the car!) will check out those suggestions. Not sure of make of plugs - will investigate - I merely put them on the list I gave to Brookhouse. I have the original set and boxes so will swap.... Hope to move it off the road as soon as the neighbour opposite has had his skip taken away - he tried to offer advice yesterday as he's into vintage motorbikes. Might be pushing it....
Does the cold start thingie automatically revert to 'choke' until the sensors detect not necessary, or the other way round? ie does it have to set to 'choke' only after its initial temperature assessment?
Will advise progress.

P

Yes the cold start injector depends on temperature for how long it sprays , It works mechanically so If you start and turn off after a few seconds more than a couple of times it gets confused and injects the full cold start amount each time so can flood . If the car starts first time which they usually do , all is ok ! Once the engine has cold started and is running it relies on the temperature sensor in the head to fine tune the fuel mixture as it warms up .

Further on my problem 164E, a recommended local guy came round after work tonight, and after a bit of checking he disconnected the cold start valve/injector thing, replaced the plugs with known good (and dry!) ones and she burst into life again!
He concluded that is the faulty component so will hunt for a spare tomorrow. However, one thing he also commented on: the new rotor had wiped some of the poles inside the cap. Implication - perhaps the dizzy top bearing is on its way out and allowing it to whip out of true. Must look at that when light too. No wonder less people run the older car as an everyday nowadays.....

P

Glad you were able to get her running! Did you test the cold start injector while you had it disconnected? If it started with it disconnected, I'd be willing to guess that this was not at fault and that the problem was with the plugs. As far as the distributor goes, I'd highly recommend trying to find an electronic/non-points setup (including the ignition module + ballast resistor) from a '75, so that you could get rid of the points and condenser, leaving you with 2 less things to worry about.

Back in the 1970's when the 164E was out there in regular service doing hundreds of thousands of miles on business trips etc , much like they do today... there was never any problem with points , they were the very highest quality BOSCH and were exchanged every 6000 miles … Today the points you have are sure to be different , however it may be still possible to get some of the old stock Bosch ones . Cheap electronic ignition systems today from the accessory shop are not always what you expect in reliability terms ..
What can give trouble are the forgotten Fuel injector triggering contacts in the lower half of the distributor , there are two pairs on a common plate , they do not need changing and have no adjustment , just a bit of maintenance now and again .. clean the contacts and a smear of grease on the cam ... oil vapour gets on the contacts after a few years ... Don't forget the Condenser , again they were top quality and never gave problems , but if in the last 40 years people have wrongly changed them to a cheap Chinese condenser that could give a problem .. I would happily fit a genuine bosch one which was 40 years old !

I concur, 'Clan'. We always ran our older Volvos (which were much less old then, of course) on Bosch plugs and points with very few issues between services.

We very quickly learnt that cheaper (inferior) ones were a false economy. Plugs were unreliable under load and seemed to require constant cleaning and regapping. Likewise, we were forever chasing the points gap as the heel wore down very quickly in use.

Regards, John.