Volvo Owners Club Forum - 240 General: - New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

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- - 240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244 (https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=303259)

Quote:

Originally Posted by john.wigley (Post 2598231)

The level of knowledge shown by Stephen, 'loki' and 'L.S.' is indeed legion, 'Othen'. I agree with 'L.S.' regarding the headlights. They changed over the life of the 2-series; our 'N' and 'S' reg had circular ...

I've just had to break off to deal with a wayward 6' x 6' fence panel - bloomin' heck, that's one fierce wind out there!

... ones, our 'V' reg (like yours) had square and our 'X' and 'Y' reg cars rectangular. I'd imagine it would be a fairly straight-forward swap along with the appropriate grille.

The boot spoiler is, I think, a genuine Volvo accessory, listed in their period 'boutique' accessories catalogue. However, I agree with 'loki' that the roof spoiler is a non-standard fitment.

As far as I recall, all 2-series cars, even our very early 'N' reg, had door mirrors (again the design varied by year) as standard. The last Volvo that I had which was fitted with 'wing' mirrors was our 'K' reg 144, the 'L' reg had fixed door mirrors.

As the 2-series matured (they were built from 1975 through to 1992, there was naturally a trend by owners of earlier models to 'update' their cars over time. I think your stripes may also fall into that category - they are highly reminiscent of the ones that were fitted to my '83 245GLT. As you go through your car you will almost certainly find other examples of the presence of Trigger's broom.

I'm pretty sure the bonnet badge is non-standard too, I don't recall any 2-series car fitted with anything similar. My thinking is that a previous owner was so proud of his Volvo that he wanted the world to know about it - the rear mud-flaps are another example.

As others have said, the extra lights are also after-market items. Having said that, the Swedes are big on what they term extra-ljus, huge powerful driving lights for the long dark Swedish winters which were offered as genuine accessories by Volvo.

I join others in wishing you well with your new car, I think you bagged a bargain with it!

Regards, John.

Hi John,

Do you think the lights would be interchangeable with those from a later car?

I don't mind the boot spoiler, and I quite like the black stripes (it looks like quite a professional job that cost someone quite dear), the roof spoiler had to go though - I pulled it off the other day, it has left some very stubborn adhesive patches that need cleaning up - I've tried a few solvents without success, maybe acetone might work? It much have been on the car some time as the paint elsewhere has faded, so I may have to T-cut the whole roof when we get some better weather.

I think the bonnet badge will probably disappear, the rear mudflaps have already been changed back to the originals that came with the car, they are perfectly serviceable, look smart and don't scrape on the ground when I reverse. The car looks much better from the back without the daft roof spoiler thing and with the standard mudflaps:

https://i.imgur.com/E8T5vvIh.jpg

See my last post above re the extra lights. I think I'll just keep the inner ones and wire them up properly with the original looking fog lamp switch.

Thank you for your kind comments about the Royal Barge, I really like the car, it drives well and I enjoy putting right all its little foibles (of which there are quite a few, but nothing serious or costly to put right). I think the Royal Barge is a really nice classic car for a couple of grand.

... now, it really is time to walk Bob :-)

Best wishes,

Alan

Quote:

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt (Post 2598164)

Having just re-read my previous post I've realised that I referred to the door mirrors as being non-standard. What I meant to write was that the wing mirrors are non-standard - the perils of not paying attention.
However, there shouldn't be any writing on the back face of the mirrors.

... here is a photo I found (of a 1975 car for sale on eBay) with wing mirrors, I'm guessing a PO wanted a look like this:

https://i.imgur.com/wvCeaTKh.jpg

It is a pity, the mirrors are next to useless compared with the door mirrors, but I can't really get rid of them as I'd end up with a couple of holes in each wing. I'll just live with them - they aren't offensive.

Alan

That looks very similar to the '75 (N) car that we owned, Alan, even down to the colour! Ours definitely had fixed stainless steel door mirrors though, not unlike those on the very late 1-series cars. At the time, we had two 2-series cars in the family, before moving on to to 7-series in the late '90s.

As I recall, the very early 2-series cars were not fitted with inner wing liners. As a result, the wings on ours succumbed to the iron ant very quickly - very unlike most other Volvos that we have owned. Our later cars were much better in this respect.

Regards, John.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john.wigley (Post 2598291)

It looks like a nice car John, but a bit too pricey for me at £4750.

Alan

Alan - i think our posts crossed and then i had a power cut here! No roast dinner today, cheese andpeanut butter sarnies instead! :rolleyes:

Anyhow, i digress!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Othen (Post 2598251)

Hi Dave,

I agree that is normally the way headlamps are arranged - so they may be removed without altering the alignment - but you may see in one of my other posts that it does not seem to be the case with these ones. Here is a photo of the offending part:

https://i.imgur.com/kyodry8h.jpg

... you seem the captive ball joint is rivetted to the chassis, and the nylon bush through which it screws is rivetted to the light unit, so the only way of separating the lamps from the chassis is to screw the adjuster all the way through the back (well, that is the only way I can see, unless someone knows better). I think I described the solution as being rather Saabesque (not a compliment) in the other post.

It might well be possible to change the lamps with their sub-frames to a later type - in the fullness of time I might do that.

It looks like someone (maybe Volvo, or a dealer) may have added the fog lamps from early days, the switch (the one on the left) looks like it is designed to fit a 240 and there appears to be a little bit of neat wiring loom behind it:

https://i.imgur.com/WZlpSioh.jpg

Unfortunately whilst the switch works, there is no power going to it under any conditions, so perhaps it was disconnected? All 4 of the fog/driving lamps are controlled by the very scruffy aftermarket switch in the middle which is held in by some bluetac and has a permanent live feed, which is not acceptable. Having checked the original looking switch works, I'll power it from the headlamps and use that to switch the lights, then get rid of the ugly switch in the middle and find a Volvo blanking plate from eBay.

I'm not sure about keeping all 4 lamps - I think the outer two look a bit daft, and they well disappear when I get round to sorting this problem. I agree I won't need a relay to run just two fog lamps, the wiring will be quite capable of handling a little extra.

Thank you for the information about silicone grease - I did use it (I buy it from Screwfix, intended for plumbers but it would really well on motorbikes and cars). The Vasaline is more for items that need a bit of protection from the elements like battery terminals. It works well on door hinges as well, and stays in place for a while.

My car has a sunroof, which slides pretty well and seals up, I didn't know it might tilt, how would I get it to do that?

Many thanks again for your help and advice, I'm enjoying the Royal Barge project, it is a nice car and I think I can improve it quite a bit at almost no cost with a bit of work and thought. I have several threads running - to do with different issues, and I'm pleased to say contributors have been really helpful.

I can't put off walking Bob (the dog) any longer, we will have to brave this storm :-)

Alan

Looking at the pics of your headlamp installation, it very much looks like it was done by an "It'll fit!" merchant. In other words, it's only going to be done once, don't care how they're fitted.
Later lights might well be an option, if so get not only the lights and any mounting plates etc but the grille, indicators/sidelight units that go with them (Volvo made subtle changes to the fixings over the years for the indicator/sidelight units) and as much as you possibly can get with them.
That will aid the retrofit of the later lights. :thumbs_up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Othen (Post 2598259)

I pulled it off the other day, it has left some very stubborn adhesive patches that need cleaning up - I've tried a few solvents without success, maybe acetone might work?

See my last post above re the extra lights. I think I'll just keep the inner ones and wire them up properly with the original looking fog lamp switch.

Best wishes,

Alan

Acetone should shift the adhesive but you will have to T-Cut or similar the whole roof (preferably the whole car, the polish it and wax it after - will look amazing!)

If i'm right about the inner lights under the bumper being driving lamps, you can't run them off the front fog switch. :nah: They need to extinguish when main beam goes off and as such won't need a separate switch .

Matching front fogs are available to replace the dodgy looking outer pair of fogs :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ring-BRL0...s/274089421053

The originals were made by Bosch and supplied as OE and accessory fit by Volvo, Bosch no longer make them but Ring have made them for decades now. Good lamps and suit the 2/7/9 series as well as many others.
That way the outer pair will be fog lights, only working on sidelights or dipped beam, the inner pair will be driving lamps (assuming they are as they appear) only working with full beam.

Couple of points i missed in the quote earlier in this post, NEVER use Vaseline on battery terminals! :nah:

It's a petroleum jelly meaning when it gets hot, it carbonises. If it has also run into gaps betwen the battery terminal and the terminal clamp and then carbonised, that will create a resistor causing poor starting, charging and general battery performance. :speechless-smiley-5

The sunroof, am i right in thinking there is the name "Golde" embossed/engraced in the handle/escutcheon somewhere? If so, once it is closed, there should be another button, press that and turn the handle in the same direction as you did to close it. That will make it tilt if it's capable. Handy hint here, Ford used the same sunroof mech supplier on late 70s/early 80s Cortinas and similar. Useful if you need to change the handle cassette! :thumbs_up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby (Post 2598380)

Alan - i think our posts crossed and then i had a power cut here! No roast dinner today, cheese andpeanut butter sarnies instead! :rolleyes:

Anyhow, i digress!

Looking at the pics of your headlamp installation, it very much looks like it was done by an "It'll fit!" merchant. In other words, it's only going to be done once, don't care how they're fitted.
Later lights might well be an option, if so get not only the lights and any mounting plates etc but the grille, indicators/sidelight units that go with them (Volvo made subtle changes to the fixings over the years for the indicator/sidelight units) and as much as you possibly can get with them.
That will aid the retrofit of the later lights. :thumbs_up:

Acetone should shift the adhesive but you will have to T-Cut or similar the whole roof (preferably the whole car, the polish it and wax it after - will look amazing!)

If i'm right about the inner lights under the bumper being driving lamps, you can't run them off the front fog switch. :nah: They need to extinguish when main beam goes off and as such won't need a separate switch .

Matching front fogs are available to replace the dodgy looking outer pair of fogs

The originals were made by Bosch and supplied as OE and accessory fit by Volvo, Bosch no longer make them but Ring have made them for decades now. Good lamps and suit the 2/7/9 series as well as many others.
That way the outer pair will be fog lights, only working on sidelights or dipped beam, the inner pair will be driving lamps (assuming they are as they appear) only working with full beam.

Couple of points i missed in the quote earlier in this post, NEVER use Vaseline on battery terminals! :nah:

It's a petroleum jelly meaning when it gets hot, it carbonises. If it has also run into gaps betwen the battery terminal and the terminal clamp and then carbonised, that will create a resistor causing poor starting, charging and general battery performance. :speechless-smiley-5

The sunroof, am i right in thinking there is the name "Golde" embossed/engraced in the handle/escutcheon somewhere? If so, once it is closed, there should be another button, press that and turn the handle in the same direction as you did to close it. That will make it tilt if it's capable. Handy hint here, Ford used the same sunroof mech supplier on late 70s/early 80s Cortinas and similar. Useful if you need to change the handle cassette! :thumbs_up:

Good morn Dave,

I hope the power is back on - the storm is also raging here.

Many thanks again, that is all good. Do you still think the headlights are a later addition? I'm not convinced, I know this car is 40 years old, and lots could have happened to it in that time, but the installation looks like it all fits together in a factory sort of way (even if it isn't very logical - I used to run a Saab 900 (terrible car) which was full of factory bodges - so it can happen). Anyway, it isn't all that important at the moment, I'm happy to have fixed the adjustment problem with the lights I have, they quite suit the car and will be fine for at least the time being.

That sort of brings me on to my aim with this car: I'm not intending for it to be a restoration project, lots has happened to it over the years, which is part of its charm. Where sensible and not expensive I'll put it back to standard (things like the mudflaps), but otherwise I want it to be a nice driver that I manage the obsolescence of in parallel with my own aging process. I think that makes most sense.

I've ordered some acetone and will see if I can get the adhesive off this week, I agree about having to T-cut the whole roof, and maybe the entire car. The paint is in pretty good condition and I think it will take a good polish when we get a dry day (may be a week or two yet!).

The fog lamps: I'll take a close up photo of the inners and outers today, perhaps you would give me an opinion on what is worth keeping. Now that I've sorted the headlamps (and I hope to be further improved by the Osram H4 bulbs) I'm not sure I need driving lamps, but I find fog lamps to be quite useful. I'm thinking I'll probably get rid of the two outer lamps (I think they look a bit daft anyway) and wire up the inners properly to the lighting circuit, operated by the fairly original looking switch. I think that will look smart and be practical - I can also get rid of some of the scruffy wiring that has been added.

I'd still like to get the rev counter working (I know it doesn't really matter on an auto) and replace some of the instrument back-lights that don't seem to be working, so as I'll have to pull the instruments out I might as well sort out the light switches at the same time. I'll make this a whole day project for when the weather improves a bit. Talking of the rev counter problem, Clan tells me he thinks the car is fitted with the electronic distributor and ignitor from a Volvo 360 GLT, that may be the case, but I'm sort of loath to revert back to a points system because it works just fine (see above - the evolution of the car over the past 40 years is part of its charm). I don't think that is anything to do with the rev counter problem.

Thank you for the information about Vasaline - I've been using it on battery terminals and hinges for the past 40 years (admittedly without a problem) but didn't realise that was wrong. I've ordered a big tub of silicone grease and will use that from now on (I am summarily chastened).

Re: the sunroof. I don't recall seeing a button, just a chromed handle that winds either way. I'll take a photo of it today - perhaps you would be kind enough to identify it for me, and tell me if it tilts?

Another question if I may: I understand the car has 15" Virago wheels (which I like). The tyres are 205/50R15 - all in okay condition, but from 4 different manufacturers. I always think it is safest for all the tyres to match, so I'll get a new set soon, my research shows that the original fitment was 195/60R15 tyres (and there seems to be a good selection in that size), but someone suggested 195/65R15. What do you think? I'd be most comfortable going back to the original size (155/60R15) because I think manufacturers mostly get it right, unless there is some compelling reason not to.

I have another question about the bonnet release cable - but that will wait until later when I've taken a photo because it is time for Bob's 06:30 walk (in the storm).

Best wishes,

Alan

PS. Do you happen to know what type of instrument light bulbs my car needs? The ones fitted are blue (which I do't like mich, also the fuel gauge side is a bit dimly lit, so I'm guessing there should be another one there.

Hi again Dave,

Here is a photo of the inner lamp:

https://i.imgur.com/pFeRsswh.jpg

... and the outer:

https://i.imgur.com/wo2xTSCh.jpg

Your thoughts on the 3 options (delete all/keep the inners/keep all 4 but wire as driving and fog lights separately) would be appreciated.

Here is a photo of the sunroof handle:

https://i.imgur.com/DgaP4QIh.jpg

... it does indeed sau 'Golde', but I can't see a button that would actuate the tilting function.

Best wishes,

Alan

Bonnet Catch Cable

The bonnet release mechanism on my car works, but it obviously isn't fitted properly at the cabin end. Here is a photo of the handle:

https://i.imgur.com/NZVkLcBh.jpg

I'm guessing that the base of the white plastic piece should either fit up tight against the bulkhead and be secured by something from the other side, or the wider part should fit the the other side of the bulkhead and be help in place by the cable's tension.

My guess is that it has been like this for years, and just needs putting together properly.

If someone would let me know how it fits )even better take a photo of one properly fitted) I'd much appreciate it. Also any notes on access (I'm guessing via the driver's side wheel arch, but I have not looked yet) would be nice.

Best wishes,

Alan

First off, thanks to John Wigley for the vote of confidence.

Moving on to more relevant matters. The headlamps can be exchanged relatively easily among generations of 200-series cars, but you'll need the appropriate grille if you go for the later style of rectangular ones. Both lamp surrounds and grilles are secured to the bonnet landing panel by plastic turn-buckles so are simple and quick to fit.

You might(!?) come across a Hella grille with a set of driving lamps that would fit the early - pre 1981 - cars on eBay but that would mean fitting 7" headlamps.

The auxiliary lighting would benefit from being rationalised: fit the fog lamps as close to the end of the bumper as possible; if you keep the driving lamps then relocate them above the bumper so they're in line with the headlamps. As L.S. remarked they need to be wired through main beam. Search among the older posts by Mike Brace for a very useful guide to the electrical fitting for them.

On the nearside wing you'll find the headlamp relay that you can power these from; there should also be a black-covered bus-bar with 7 male Lucar terminals that are permanently live and will provide power to one of the relay terminals for your auxiliary lamps.

US-spec cars had 7" round sealed-beams originally, then 4 5.75" round sealed beams, then 4 rectangular sealed beams before adopting the European-style headlamps. The sealed beams were Federally-mandated for ALL cars until the early 1980s so John Doe could replace a blown lamp anywhere rather than having to find a dealer - most sensible IMO.

The Virgos should run 195/60s but I have 195/65s for ride comfort as the GLT is more firmly sprung than the other versions.

The factory sun-roof is a slide-only one unfortunately; the 7/9-series cars have a tilt feature.

It's nice to know you've "named" the car - they DO have personalities.

Unintended Consequences

This is a nice unintended consequence.

In one of my early posts I mentioned that both the fan and the radio could be operated without the key. The radio really irritated me, so I pulled it out and found it had been fitted by someone with no knowledge of electricity at all, probably with a penknife. The permanent live and switched live leads had been twisted together and stuffed into a bit of chocky so it sort of worked (but was always live, it must have been really irritating).

I fitted the whole thing again with proper crimped connectors, and of course it would just the way Mr Sony intended it to now (turns on and off with the ignition). I had intended to get round to fixing the always live fan sometime.

Whilst waiting for the grocery store to open this morn I noticed that the fan had fixed itself, and now turned off with the accessories. Whoever fitted the radio must have inadvertently connected a permanent live (I don't know where it came from inside the console) to the accessory circuit, so the whole thing stayed live all the time, even without the key.

... that was a nice result, and another job off my list. Talking of which, the postie has just delivered the oil filter and the Osram H4 headlamp bulbs, so I have a couple of jobs to do this morn :-)

Alan