Diesel particulate filter and rising oil levels discussion
 

There are a number of threads scattered around the various boards for the models affected and it has been suggested to keep the discussion here as the issue is particular to the engines and not the cars.

All the other threads are indexed below and can be linked to from here to read the previous discussions. If you know of any other discussions let me know and I will add them to the list.



Diesel Engines

Rising oil level on C30 D5

S80 '98-'06 / S60, V70 & XC70 '00-'07 General

Diesel DPF recall

Engine: D5: Confused about oil

Engine: D5: Engine Oil Change

Engine: D5: Soot Filter driving me crazy...HELP

S80 '06> / V70 '07> General

Diesel Particulate Filter DPF

V70: Engine Safety Recall Notice

General Volvo and Motoring Discussions

S60: General Diesel Particulate Filter - recall

MPG on 2008 Volvo S80 D5 Geartronic

Diesel Particulate Filter - Wish List

XC90 General

Engine: D52447: Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)

XC60 General

XC60 2.4D - Oil level going up !

Hi All,

Question surrounding oil for the D5 163 on a 2004 year (04) more specifically in my S60 SE.

Need some oil...

Volvo Genuine 0w30 Fully Synthetic A5B5 - 7 Litres for £93.10. (Sold by Volvo)

Or

Q8 T630 5w30 Part Synthetic A5B5 (apparently with a letter saying it is approved by Volvo) - 7 Litres for £31.68. (Sold by Volvo)

Or

Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 5L Fully Synthetic A5B5 - 7 Litres for £74.00. (Halfords)

Which oil should I put in my car?! I'm aware the D5 engine can be quite fussy, and that apparently it has a 7 litre sump...

Cheers

Chris

Just been on the phone to another Volvo dealership...

They can sell me 7 litres of the 0w30 A5B5 Fully Synthetic Genuine Volvo stuff (apparently it's Catrol SLX "designed for Volvo") for £88.20 all in.

Just bought the above. 6.5 litres including filter to fill up says the Haynes manual so I should have 0.5 to top up if needed.

If anyone recommends anything cheaper and just as good, i'll use that at the next oil change!

The below is the oil that should be used in the D5 engines:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8441/imag0004pw.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9982/imag0005j.jpg

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/277/imag0006k.jpg

HTH

Chris.

i think this is the cheapest place, even with the postage, to get it online ......http://www.mapodo.de/ole-nach/alle-v...-30-1-ltr.html

Just worked it out and the cost with postage for 7 litres is £73.22

Halfords 5W30 OK for 185BHP D5 ?
 

What are the thoughts on Halfords oil ?
My car is a S60 2006 MY 185BHP D5 and I've read a lot of threads with interest. I've finally gone for Halfords 05W30 Fully synthetic, admittedly 0W30 would be better but I think this is fine and its easily obtainable. It mets the A5/B5 spec and it's recommend for Fords and some Volvos but doesn't state which models. It's in a Grey can and on offer at £27.99 at the moment and its a full 5Ltrs not 4.

Regards
Steve

Try Motaquip factors for Motaquip MQX. It's 0w30 A5/B5 and not terribly expensive.

When at the dealer for an other issue , the told me there was a recall issue concerning the dpf oillevel rising
They also notified me that besides the known upgrade for oillevel alarming the software also adjusted the regenerationintervals and post injection duration
I report this ,because when i readed all the threads concerning this ,people didnt got any answers concerning the injection alterations but that was a few years ago

I made a comment on this thread http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showth...t=97764&page=2 quite a long time ago and signed off with "watch this space..." Well that was quite some time ago and not wanting to jeopardise my case with Volvo, I have kept quiet.

Until Now!

Initially, Volvo UK decided to ignore my requests for investigation into the problem, saying that my car was not affected. They then made us (it's my wife's car) jump through numerous hoops in an attempt (we thought) to identify the problem and find a cure. It now turns out they (by asking us to have the oil drained, measured and refilled then driven for 3000 miles and have it drained and measured again) were analysing the engines behaviour so that they could recommend to the dealers the correct level to fill the engine oil to so that the problem "appeared" to have been solved.

One suggestion I made to Volvo is that they at least change the software so that if the oil rises beyond a dangerous point (over the MAX level) the EMS notifies the driver of the problem. I have now discovered, that was the extent of the software update. Volvo (to my knowledge) have not addressed the problem of the dilution of the lubricant with diesel in any way. All they have done is change the software so that a light will come on and an audible warning will sound when the oil rises too high. They have also directed all service agents that they should only fill the affected engines to 3/4 of the original specified oil level... in an effort to make sure that the said oil level warning indicator does not come on before the next service interval.

I admit that after the last service in October, I took my eye off the ball a little. I did not continue to check the oil level... I hadn't driven the wifes car since buying a BMW but a few weeks ago whilst washing it, sat in the volvo and checked the oil level... Just under MAX again! After a call to our local service agent, they confirmed that the software was changed to add a warning over an over level situation and that they only fill affected engines to 3/4 the original specification.

So, the problem persists! At the height of my complaints and the "investigation" by Volvo, I had a quantity of the drained / adulterated oil sent off for analysis by a family member who had lab time on an industrial viscometer. The oil was checked and found to have a viscosity of 31.5 cSt @40degrees C. The original clean oil has a viscosity of 75 cSt. So, by diluting the oil with Diesel, our engines are halving the viscosity of the life blood which keeps it lubricated. This MUST be having a direct effect on the longevity of the engine. You cannot run an engine with the wrong viscosity oil and expect it to last very long.

In order to ascertain whether some of this drop in Kinematic Viscosity was due to the normal behaviour of the oil during it's lifetime, I contacted Castrol and asked what they expected to happen to their oil's viscosity from first fill to the next service interval. The chap I spoke to straight away asked which Volvo I was driving!! He then informed that Volvo new about the problem with this particular powerplant but let it go to market anyway. He also told me that the oil's viscosity should not change at all during it's lifetime. Volvo have dropped this and a few other power plants very rapidly from their line up. I wonder why?



So, we are now back to where we started; The engine has not been fixed, the software upgrade did nothing to change the way the diesel is allowed to slip passed the wiper rings during the DPF burn off cycle, the lubricant is still being diluted which will probably lead to partial or complete failure of major engine components.

The owners manual clearly states that the vehicle should not be driven with the wrong viscosity oil. Yet by underfilling the oil resevoir and merely draining oil off when it gets too high (by dilution with diesel) Volvo are knowingly asking the owner to drive the vehicle in a condition which Volvo states " will void all warrantees.."

Could I urge all worried parties to check their engine oil levels again and update this thread, stating whether the oil level is above 1/4 full? 1/4 is the level to which the Volvo service agents are now told to fill these particular engines.

I am at a loss as to what action to take now. We (STUPIDLY) didn't take the car back to the garage and demand a full repair or a refund if not rapaired within a fixed time frame. We trusted Volvo and were let down. They said they had fixed the problem when all they have done is cover it up. They even made us pay for clean oil to be added during the testing phase because I didn't weant the car to run with insufficiently thick lubricant.



Is there anyone with legal training who could advise us what to do now?

rgds,
Alun

Use a low saps 5w40 oil and change the oil every 10000 miles that would keep you out of problems
But if you still have warranty they use it as an excuse to not compensate
Because the sticker says 0w30
0w30 was only advised for being low saps and slightly lower emision due to the low viscosity
The oildillution makes that already too thin oil thinner
Audi petrol turbo's without dillution already seized up with that wateroilcrap and audi now prohibits 0w30 for those engines
Now be prepared by all those submissive volvo rule followers who will say in reaction to this thread numerous time that the manual "commands" 0w30 even when they dont know why and volvo cant be wrong wont they?
They didnt even knew 5 years ago why the oillevels where rising yet alone that those wateroils thinned even more due to regeneration with biodieseldillution!!
My volvo isnt in warranty and my engineer oil analysis heart says that thicker oil can cushion the dillution levels combined with shorter drain intervals

Thank you for your post (quoted shortened).What you write is indeed correct,unfortunately.

I have been informed that 'the oil is of a quality and standard that allows dilution with diesel so as not to affect its ability to protect the engine'.

Now make of that what you will, but in my book its nonsense. Oil should not be diluted with diesel,and for oil to be diluted with diesel in the manner it is being, indicates a design fault.It is however mere opinion and I am not a qualified tech so my thoughts count for nothing without being able to substantiate them with proof.

For any action to have a chance of being successful you would have to provide proof. To do so would be expensive,not to mention time consuming and stressful.For any action to be successful you must have suffered a loss? - have you?

And therein lies the problem - by the time engines may have worn (even prematurely - say they expire at 80k when without the poor oil lubrication issue they would have lasted say 150k) it may be suggested by Volvo that it is not due to this rising oil issue, but something else - and how does one dispute that or argue the contrary?

Now don't get me wrong, I am hugely in favour of the 'small man' taking on the might of a large corporation despite the odds being stacked against them, and seeing a 'large corprate grin' turn into an even 'larger corporate grimace' although one has to be sensible and consider chances of success in relation to time expended along with attendant cost and stress!

It really is a difficult position in which to be, and manufacturers know that.Awareness may be an option with which to fight back.

The above is just my opinion and others may disagree.

Regards

When we bought our Volvo 2 years ago I took the decision, based on the various dpf regeneration threads, to use 0W-40 oil and this year I have also started using the new low ash version of this oil.
I have not had the software update done but don't completely fill the sump, I top up with 6L at the oil change. So far the oil level has changed very little if at all over the last 3 10,000 mile oil changes. Of course it may be topping up with diesel as fast as it is burning it! This year I have decided to extend the oil change interval to annually for economic reasons, that should equate to about 15,000 miles.

Rising oil level V70 D5 205 year 2010
 

Rising oil level V70 D5 205 year 2010

From factory to 18,000 miles – oil at the max level (4 bars on the electronic gauge), no top up required (Factory Castrol oil)

After 1st service 18,000 to 36,000 miles – oil at max level no top up required (Castrol oil)

After 2nd service From 36,000 miles – the oil level seems to hover from 3 bars to 4 bars (max level). The garage advised me that the recent software update has reduced the oil amount to account for rising oil level (Mobil 0w/30 oil)

Should I be worried about any damage this may have caused to the engine since new and consider a replacement car.

Thanks

no it sounds fine the problems are if it goes over max...

Possible DPF Solution?
 

Waiting for the arrival of my new XC60 D5 Geartronic is killing me... One major concern I have is over the DPF regeneration and oil rising problem some people have been having. As I'm a low mileage driver I'm toying with the idea of fitting a fuel burning parking heater on the assumption that it could allow for quicker passive regeneration to occur. Is this a viable option or am barking up the wrong tree?

I think the parkheater will release soot too
but it will heat up the engine faster and will reduce sootproduktion
Low mileage in itsself is not the problem
Try to not make all the miles in the city and get the newest dpf softwareupgrade free at the dealer if this car hasnt have had any yet

Monitor your oillevel and if no dpf warnings come i asume regeneration will occur

2007 S80 D5 - Engine Management Service Message
 

My S80 D5 has done 53k miles and no problems. The the DFP / oil level software update and engine label was done in 2011 on a recall. The car has been regularly serviced.

Then last week the dreaded yellow exclamation mark came on with the "Engine Management Service Required" message. It was permanent whenever the car was started or running. Took the car to my local (and excellent) independent Volvo specialist. They ran an OBDII sweep and scratched their heads a bit at an error code which indicated something wrong with the oil level, or with the oil level sensor. It was clear that the oil level was correct, at 1/3rd below the max mark. So all they did was disconnect and reconnect the sensor, re-establish comms between the sensor and the car compuetr system and hey presto - problem solved! Been running a week now with no more messages.

The lesson is if a garage wants to fit and charge you for a new oil sensor, just ask them to disconnect and reconnect the existing one first.

Just had this problem on my August 2008 V50 D5 with 113k on the clock.

500 miles of the car not-warming up at all resulted in an oil over-level warning.

Took it to Volvo and they fixed it for free and they said to give it a good run every so often.

I noticed it was down to 30MPG instead of my usual 35MPG, so I know if it is happening again!

Rising oil levels
 

Can I confirm that this problem is on the D5 engine... but what year does it start from. Cheers

Gen 3 D5 engine from '57 ('08 model year) on until the twin turbo version appeared in late '09

Totally agree.

Since getting my 2006 S60 D5 185 , 3 years ago i have exclusively used Mobil 1 5w-30 ESP Formula ( Low Ash ). I change this oil + filter every 10k

Many on here criticised this choice of oil and warned of horrendous consequences by not sticking to a 0w-30.

Well to my mind , given the potential problems with the DPF , the low ash aspect of Mobil1 ESP outweighed the non conforming to specified viscocity.

35k on i have had no problems whatsover with the DPF, rising oil levels or indeed mechanical disaster and the fuel economy has been nothing short of superb throughout.

Darryl:thumbs_up:

So I'm looking at 2 high milers at the moment. A 55 Reg V70 manual with 185 engine done 180k and an 05 V70 with 163 engine geartronic.

Should I stear clear of 185 even though manual? What MPG am I liable to get with manual - I know what the 163 geartronic will do.

Mine is a 185 6 speed manual. Around the doors i get 42 mpg and on a long run a very easy 50+ and that is measured properly by brimming the tank rather than relying on the computer.

Darryl:thumbs_up:

Try this trick for rising oil levels ...
 

I agree with you, as M1 ESP 5/30 has a viscosity of 12.1 at 100c and Castrol Edge 0/30 (C2/C3) has a viscosity of 12.2, so the difference is minimal.
The pour point of M1 ESP 5/30 is minus 45c and you won't get a significant increase in cold start wear until the temp is within about 10c of the pour point, so the M1 oil is good down to minus 35c.
There is in reality almost no difference in cold start wear factors between a 10/30 and a 0/30 unless you get temps below about minus 25c, BUT the engine will start more easily with the 0W oil.
Castrol, Mobil, Shell, Liqui Moly and Valvoline all make excellent top quality full synthetics and if you select the correct viscosity and Acea cat oil, it will make no difference to the engine which company you choose.

The important thing is to get the oil change interval correct and if you suspect your oil is suffering from fuel contamination, I would send off a sample to a cheap oil lab like Blackstone (25 usd plus postage) and find out what condition it is in at the end of 10K miles. If it's too thin (Below the 30 grade range) then you can either reduce the oil change interval or move up a grade to Castrol Turbo Diesel 5/40 or similar.
If I had fuel contamination, I would just change the oil only every 5K miles and then do a full service every 10K miles. Dirty oil filters are more efficient than clean ones, so changing the oil filter too often is bad news. I never, ever use a non OEM oil filter.

Which viscosity of oil selected should relate to the average air temperature and the nature of the load on the engine (Racing and heavy towing put more load on the bearings), so if I was in a hot country and pushing the engine hard, then I would not use an X/30, but move up a grade to an X/40. Volvo do list a 15/40 full synthetic as the best oil for serious desert operations for many of the diesels.

I should have listed the viscosity of Castrol Edge SLX Pro 5/30, which is 11.8 cSt at 100c, so the Mobil EP 5/30 is in fact thicker, which is good in my opinion.
In general terms if you check the oil finder page of a major engine oil company web site (I only regard Castrol, Mobil, Shell and Liqui Moly as major brands in the EU) for an engine specific recommended oil, it will be just as good as the Volvo dealers Castrol oil. I would not make the same statement about oil or fuel filters and think that using a real Volvo one is the best idea. The can might be similar to a German Mann oil filter, but the contents might not be.

I've looked at a lot of oil analysis results from various oil companies and the only general comment I would make is that Castrol do seem to make the best oils in terms of minimum wear rates, BUT Mobil and Shell both seem to make oils that clean better (More detergents and dispersant additives), which can be very important for older engines or long oil change intervals. Liqui Moly are half way between the two in additive terms.
Valvoline seem to make the best normal grade high mileage oil if you have a high oil consumption or leaks, as Maxlife 10/40 is one of the best HM oils around.

If you are desperate enough due to a terminal phase problem (Minor sludge, serious unrepairable oil leaks, gummed injectors or even Carbon deposits in the cylinders) to be in need of an oil or fuel additive, Liqui Moly are the best company in the snake oil game.

No oil company is making a special oil that will deal with the effects of diesel contamination. Valvoline do include some extra additives to deal with high Sulpur content petrol use, but nothing for diesel contamination. It seems to be just a case of moving up a grade or changing the oil more often. If anyone decides to try using Ceretec, it would be good if they would do a before and after used oil analysis and publish it here.

A real simple cure for this ridiculous malady would be to simply install one additional injector downstream of the turbo & ahead of the dpf . A supply from the high pressure pump controlled via a solenoid opening when told to by the ECU . Problem solved ! No more rising oil levels , no more diluted oil resulting in wrecked engines , no more bore wear situations due to borewashing with fuel
( accelerated wear ) .

It could even be programmed to trigger a fuel dose , if the ecu sensed a constant engine speed after so long i.e. you are on the motorway , EVEN if the bloody DPF does not even need a regen . Why wait until the blasted thing is blocked before you try to remedy the problem , preventative measures work

(deep breath ) Sorry chaps but this dpf lark has ticked me off , they fit a legally required carbon filter , that then burns off at higher temperatures & deposits the carbon into the atmosphere !! WHY ???

Intercooler valve failure and high oil level
 

I have been having serious problems with my V50 2.0.
After swapping the engine (no compression on two cylinders) the problems keep comming.

The guy who swapped the engine forgot to mount the vacuum hoses on the intercoolerbypass valves rsult no turbo. Who can help me figure out which one goes to what valve ?

I also have high engine oil level.
So no probabely diesel comming into the sump. Could this be cause because of no turbo the DPF could not regenerate and the fuel is comming into the sump. If so will this be solved by connecting the vacuum hoses and going for a high way drive ?

Thanks for the advise.
If this is not the right thread pleas move the question to the correct one.

Greets Johan

Can someone explain to me how the engine sump oil level can rise because of the DPF regeneration process? I assumed that extra fuel was injected into the exhaust to raise the DPF temperature but can't see how this results in fuel ending up in the sump?

No it converts the carbon into heat / energy. No carbon is left.

The extra fuel is injected into the cylinder head. If the fuel is not metered correctly some can end up getting past the scraper ring. Volvo changed the metering and monitoring and the scraper rings some years ago so it's not an issue nowadays unless the engine has a fault.

So if I understand that correctly the fuel is injected via the existing injectors that handle the usual fuelling & regeneration is basically over-fuelling to raise the temperature of the DPF?

Basically yeah altho it is more of a multi inject process rather than a full fuel dump in one go

Volvo fit their DPF's very close to the engine so they run hot enough to burn the fuel and carbon deposits together. Other manufacturers who can't fit the DPF close enough to the engine use Ad Blue to lower the necessary burn temperature.

Increasing the tension on the rings does result in increased wear of both the ring and cylinder.

If you inject extra fuel into the cylinder head some of it will get past the rings and valve guides into the oil. Normal diesel evapourates from hot engine oil, BUT the Bio content does not, so it accumulates and is real bad news in terms of thinning the oil and interferring with the action of the anti wear additives.

When the engine block and injector tips are in perfect condition the amount of fuel in the oil might be less than the 2% listed by an oil analysis lab for a warning flag, but in many cases of older cars or those doing a lot of short trips the amount of fuel will be about that limit, particularly if the injectors are gummed up from using supermarket fuel.

The solution: Cut the oil change interval to half the Max recommended (No need to change the oil filter until max interval) and use a direct feed injection cleaner like Liqui Moly Diesel Purge to fill up the fuel filter housing when the element is changed. A can of a major brand diesel fuel additive every OCI will also work to some extent.

Volvo list 0w30 as the oil spec for newer engines, BUT if your engine is worn or subject to fuel contamination, increase it to an 0 or 5w40 full synthetic.

It has nothing to do with bad fuel metering , just the biofuel fysics and the relatively long time the (big biodiesel droplets)fuel spends in the exhauststroke and not burning.
If the fuel was badly metered than the the dpf temp would be too hot or cold .
The dpf temp is pretty good managed , the best option tho is an extra fuelinjector in the catalyst . but thats a money issue.

Its no coincedence that the countries with high biodieselcontent (7% or more) have these risingoilevel issues and the countries that run on 2% or less have pretty non existent rising oillevels

The UK has had 7% bio content for many years. Volvo fixed the issue years ago. If you look at the date of the thread start it was 2010.

Roy

I think the biofuel content was at least 7% and even over 10% in some cases (in the past)
I have both ecu maps with and without the dpf software update and they seem to run under the same lamdas during regeneration (including post injection) also the regeneration intervals are the same
I had no rising oilevels with both of them but biocontent is max 2% over here

Now with more modern dieselengines nowadays with piezo injectors there are more injections pro cycle possible so maybe that curbs a bit
And if the oilring is different (source?} than it could a be bit of a difference
But with the older dpf d5ś it was almost the german and uk d5ś with the high biodiesel content that had the excessive problems

I read every post on the XC90 D5 forum and there never was a UK XC90 D5 with a rising oil level. There was one very early Spanish one that Volvo replaced the engine for a new one and took the old one back to the factory to experiment on, but that was it for the UK XC90 forum.

There was an issue with some of the 60 series D5's, but as I said the issue was sorted ages ago and there have been no issues recently that I've seen.

UK diesel has been 7% bio for about 11 years. Was 5% before that.

Roy