Amazon conversion to Electric
 

Would anyone be interested in my doing a topic about converting a 1964 Volvo Amazon conversion to Electric?

Yes sir

There was a project thread on this a while ago. The poster hasn't been on for 3 years though.

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=241477

White;

Welcome to this forum.

I'm personally not interested in any electric car (no SUs, or their wonderful sucking noises!), but everyone here, including myself, is interested in just about anything Volvo Amazon, so present away!

Cheers from Connecticut!

Yes very interested, I was going to put an Tesla electric motor in my race car but the cost was so high I could have built 2 to 3 normal Turbo engines.
Cant wait to see how you get on, what power and distance are you looking for ?

I personally am simply looking for something equivalent to my Renault Zoe. It is 89hp and does about 100 miles depending on season. In summer its more in winter its less.

On one of the EV forums lots of people seem to think because I am converting I should be slicing and dicing the car. Putting 200kg of batteries and 300hp motors. Losing the back seat etc. Or taking a smashed Nissan Leaf and putting it in the Amazon.

THAT IS NOT MY AIM!

I want to take an almost stock classic car. Restore her. Keep her as original as possible, but with an electric motor. The 1.8 engine was about 86hp, so the gearbox and running gear can stay. I hope to hide 3 battery cells in the back and 2 in the front. A 75hp(ish) motor on the gearbox. All the other electronics in the front. This should keep the corner weight similar to stock. Perhaps a little heavier.

I don't want to effectively take a pre existing car and put the Amazon body on it. Its lots of work and I might as well buy and drive a pre existing car. I want it to be different. A daily commuter. And simple.

Granted I will add mod cons. Maybe a LCD dash because the stock one will have lots of unused bits in the electric car. Also a stereo, Aux port, USB ports etc. Maybe proximity sensors, I dont know yet.

That’s a lot of work, have you done any restorations or engine swaps before? Be realistic of how much work this is, have you got the skills and knowledge already or need to learn, the cost and if you can devote this much time to the project.

There’s a guy I think in the Netherlands doing a conversion, if you ask on the Volvo Amazon page on Facebook you will find him.

Do you still need the gearbox? Not just connect direct to the propshaft essentially?

Company in London has done a Moggy Thou not cut anything, fitted it to the G/box and I think removed the fuel tank built a frame and sat the batteries in there...ill try and find the link
It can be converted back easy.

https://classicsworld.co.uk/guides/e...-minor-review/

Found this and this below

https://www.londonelectriccars.com/

I'm not restoring it, i have someone doing that for me. The interior is mostly fine.

I am a fairly competent mechanic and have done plenty of electrical work on scooters, bikes, domestic solar panels and pools etc. I love to fiddle.

I am mechanical and electrically trained.

I used to garry up cars in a previous life, regularly having to change engines before an afternoon shift so I could get to work.

What I cant do myself, I will pay for someone to do. My worry is adapter plates and battery boxes.

I will use the gearbox to begin with. Then consider options later. I like the idea of gears. My Zoe doesn't have gears. I want to see what its like. So what if it costs more.

To be honest, I don't know how fast a prop shaft would usually spin. So hadnt really considered it.

White;

The whole need for a Gearbox comes from needing to keep an internal combustion engine in its quite limited torque range for a given roadspeed...this falls away with an electric motor where high torque is available from 0RPM, and all the way to max RPMs...it all comes down to the motor drive system (typically a variable frequency PWM system, and the most advanced ones have regenerative braking for max efficiency).

I think it's preferred to drive the Driveshaft directly, otherwise shifting would be a major issues (a clutch would be required to decouple the electric engine from drivetrain during shifting), or else...! ...or, it would be put into gear for a high or low speed range before moving, but could never be shifted while moving...

Cheers

The regenerative braking makes it more efficient but also more expensive as you have to us AC motors but i imagine a lot of the road going electric cars are using them now...so using one of them is a good idea
But for a very simple set up a DC motor will be fine and cheaper with less wiring too... as always its horses for courses.. but cant wait to follow this project, good luck..
When i was planning mine the batteries became the straw that broke its back... i was only planning on running for about 10 mins all weekend so I could us only 6 batteries....cost over £4000..:omg_smile:

Yes I will be using a clutch too.

Yes, my initial plan was to go down the DC route but the AC motors aren't so expensive anymore and the regen does give a little return. Yes £4000 on the batteries is what I expect to spend. I am picking up second hand parts here and there, I have a brother in the USA who returns in a few months so thats handy... Lots of people doing this over there.

Mine will be a daily driver and I have my Zoe which I will sell which will help cover the expenses.

Sounds a good plan, yes the yanks have done a lot with electric cars.
The Tesla motor and diff were not to bad, I was taken by surprise to be honest on the cost of only 6 batteries plus all the control gear, wiring, charger etc etc...
At the time ( Last Year ) I was looking at £18,000 + for 300bhp.. and I would have done all the fitting and wiring as well.. I really loved the idea but could never justify those costs.. ( it was on a race car not my Amazon) as im looking at 350 to 450 BHP for a lot less from a normal turbo engine.
But I'm really looking forward seeing how you get on as the idea did enthral me due to the instant response and torque of the Electric motor, good luck :regular_smile:

How are things progressing ?

I am still waiting for the restoration to finish. I don't think I will get my hands on the car for a couple of months. I doubt it will be finished before Summer next year.

I am scouring the internet often for second hand bits and pieces. I now have a BMS and charger. Also some other bits and pieces like LED headlights etc.

I am talking and planning and biding my time while I wait for the car to turn up.

Send me a list of what you need, I have a mate who is a principal engineer for one of the big car companies and he's doing a lot of playing about with EV's at the moment and can ask him for you.

My first observation would be that grafting the Amazon body on to an existing salvaged electric vehicle platform might be the easier (and long term less expensive) option; but, in re reading the thread I see you explicitly do not want to do that. Fair game! Your car, your choice.

The choice of a series would DC motor drive without regenerative braking would also not be my choice. This is ancient technology that has been in use for a century (electric trolley cars) with the only technology development being high current DC supplies rather than a bunch of switched resistors. Having to deal with brushes does not appeal to me; but, I have not explored the cost difference between AC and DC, so again your decision.

The plan to go forward with a gearbox is the one that I would seriously question. This will depend on the selection of the actual motor and controller; but, unless you grossly undersize the motor (which will kill your top speed) when you look at the torque - speed - voltage relationships of the electric motor I think you will find that you are flying through the 1st and 2nd gears way too fast. I speculate that with a correctly sized electric motor your acceleration times will be slower with a gearbox than without because of the dead time as you shift gears. Be aware that series wound DC motors tend to have a torque curve that is the reverse of a gasoline engine. Very high torque at stall (0 RPM) with the torque dropping off as motor speed picks up - assuming constant voltage. I expect that any electric motor capable of getting the Amazon up past 80 mi/hr will probably shred an M40 transmission in first gear if you apply full throttle.

Do a little math before you select your drive and make the decision on the gearbox. Look at the B18 torque curve between 900 RPM and 5000 RPM and use the gear ratios to determine the effective torque on the output shaft of the transmission in the various gears. Now, as a first pass select an electric motor capable of matching the power output of the B18 if that is your objective. If this is a non highway car then you can downsize the motor appropriately. Have a look at what the stall torque of that motor is. Chances are that at full voltage (particularly if the motor has a short time rating for acceleration) it greatly exceeds the first gear output torque that the B18 can produce at 3000 RPM. Applying that much torque to the input shaft of your transmission is a recipe for turning your transmission into a piece of shrapnel.

Transmissions are a necessity on a B18 internal combustion that has a very positive slope torque - speed curve between 1000 and 3000 RPM. You need to completely change your thinking when dealing with the negative torque - speed curve for a series wound DC motor.

No, no, NO! No proximity sensors! Look behind you, DRIVE your car, not be dictated to by a computer. (sorry if seems rantish)

https://www.londonelectriccars.com/

I like the way these people convert classic cars, the Minor for example can be converted back to ICE very easy if needed. The motor was bolted to the gearbox via an adaptor to keep things simple as it does not actually need the G/B.
Batteries were spread over the car to aid weight distribution, some where the fuel tank used to be.. all in all a very practical solution.

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/

This company is very professional and the one i spoke to a lot when I was considering a conversion... they do some lovely conversions with considerable power if requested. And again i believe they can be converted back if needed. As one car was a 308 Ferrari and i can imagine in the future the genuine V8 in the car would make it more valuable, but there again you never know !
I would have loved to go ahead but the evil problem of cost got in the way.. one day perhaps.

So i'm really looking forward to see how this conversion progresses. I would personally keep it as simple as possible

How about practical things like where are you going to fit the batteries?

How much extra weight will the existing structure have to carry?

Have "they" actually decided on a standard battery shape for vehicles or is it going to be one of those ever changing pains in your backside every time you need to replace the batteries? (In which case have you thought of future proofing the battery considerations during the restoration phase?)

######

I think electric is certainly the way forward for "classic vehicles that you want to use" - given half the chance I will definitely do something similar with one or more of my vehicles.

That's the chap i spoke to and i was also going to use the Tesla motor in a very small and light special saloon car, but with different batteries. (only 6)
As you can see they are a very professional team and the Land Rover was very impressive. Not sure about the baby poo colour but if you can afford that changing the colour is no problem.. i would not say no to that in any colour but a nice dark metallic green would have looked better i think.

Hmm. Looks as if idea works ok, an no doubt, it's a good thing, all those silly SUVs to be got rid of. I suppose i'd have one if forced. Yet, half the point of a classic is it's engine, all the senses it feeds. The only saving grace of electric, in this sense, is the astounding power available. Apart from the obvious cleanliness of the fuel, all else is negative, to me. An you are still producing pollutants, brake an tyre dust.

Although electric vehicles maybe 'clean' in their lack of emissions where they are being driven, they are far from 'green'. The electricity they are charged with is only as clean as the method of generating it, still mostly coal or nuclear around the world. Plus the rare metals used in the motors and batteries are finite. They are often mined in the poorest countries by exploited children paid a pitance and will at the current rate, run out before fossil fuels.

I agree that manufacturing, "doing stuff", batteries, tyres and brakes cause polution but in a way those aspects are pretty much out of the common man's hands...

...if there happens to be a future for "classic cars that you want to use" I think the chances are pretty high that an electric conversion will be the main way in which people can keep their classic cars on the road.

(Eventually we will probably have to install a robot that drives them for us too!)

In the UK "they" are saying that by 2035 no more internal combustion engines will be sold. It is obvious this rule isn't going to go far enough to reduce at street level polution (let alone the pollution caused before the vehicle is actually driving down the street). I think "they" will have to do more - and do more more quickly.

Despite the panic and stress I have heard through out my life time that the oil will run out it seems much more likely that "they" will have to stop the wide spread use of oil based fuels.

Perversely it seems that my plans to convert my diesel Mercedes to petrol in order to keep it going for a few more years now seems like a bad idea. In principle I will be able to make my own fuel for an old fashioned diesel engine even if fossile fuels are no longer sold....

...realistically, however, electric seems to be the most likely reasonable solution.

For me an electric conversion is all about the practicality of being able to use and drive something with character (at some undisclosed point in the future)

Bracpan. Note that the Defender conversion was £152k! You can get 3 Teslas for that.

Yes I did (Gulp) when I spoke to them the prices really shocked me especially as i could have done all the installation myself...I was actually talking with another company from the Bristol area and they knew each other well and recommended that I got some bits from them and some from the Electric Classic cars... it was then i started to do the maths and got a big shock... The Telsa motor was around 7K but the rest of the kit tripled the costs and that was for a car that only needed to do about 15 miles all weekend... its a shame i think it would have been an interesting project..
Perhaps in the future when more damaged electric cars become available..

Ill be watching this guys progress that's for sure :regular_smile:

Point i'd make is : it'll no longer have a whole lot of character with an electric motor in. Oh, an another point: At what stage an when, do Gullwings, 250 GTO's etc become worth only a couple hundred, due to no or restricted fuel, hmmm?

Well put me down for every 250 GTO.... sorry but that's one car that's never going to dropping below 8 figures...

But i do get your point, its very difficult to asses at this stage, personally i think there will be fuel available for at least another 25 to 30 years as by the time ICE are stopped they will still be running 10 to 15 years later. How easy it is to buy that's another problem as i cant see so many petrol stations around then. You might have to order it to be delivered..:shocked:
I think we are ok for a few years yet... ( fingers crossed)

I disagree. I think many a classic car could still be utterly charming with a replacement electric motor. For some vehicles it might actually make them more usable (!)

The point I'm making is for classic cars that get used. Not ornaments or investments.

Much like the "problem" with electric cars a few years back - where do you charge them? - I expect old fashioned fuel will be harder to find in the future much like in the 1980s in the UK if you had bought a diesel engined car (you often had to go and find fuel at places like the bus station)

Ummm, can agree with that, there's def some "classics" as could use 400 hp.

As much as I bought my Amazon to reconnect with ancient tech, I recognize the argument for prolonging their relevant lifespan... as well as improving performance.

This looks like a viable solution: https://apple.news/AX10XYjB-Qg2Hejbyi_k-zg

At the moment at least having the battery capacity to produce such large amounts of power at the wheels for a reasonable (or even usable) length of time would mean a lot of battery space and weight.

I don't think that would be suitable for a classic. I'm thinking much more like the Wheeler Dealers Maserati conversion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0JbbRFuMhw

The OP was talking about a Zoe equivalent set up and trying to find a solution that wouldn't be as expensive as the Land Rover conversion mentioned earlier in the thread.

At the moment the cost of a decent engine rebuild is about 3K (be it USD EUR or GBP despite the descrepancies in currencies) - that's the kind of money I'd be looking to spend on batteries. Until the prices reach that level I'm not a player especially as you'll probably have to replace them every 6 or 7 years...

Wow that is interesting... imagine that in an Amazon :regular_smile:
I would be happy with half the power of the car on the Ramp.
I hope more motor like this become available in the future.
Its the batteries that are the problem at the moment, price and life expectancy, once they improve I think things will move on very quick..
if you watch all the film Dave Kindig show off a Corvette ! I went to his workshop a few years ago...the standard of his builds are stunning...each car was perfect i could not find even one tiny fault in any of the cars we saw...

Hello folks, I hope you're all well. I just fancied adding some knowledge. Fossil fuel use in the UK's national grid has been nosediving over the last decade and power stations are on course to stop using coal by 2025. The "electricity isn't 100% clean so I'll carry on using 100% dirty petrol" argument has lost whatever teeth it had over the last ten years. Our electricity's pretty clean and it's constantly getting cleaner. We've started having entire quarters when more electricity from renewables than fossil fuels goes through the grid.

The problems you highlighted with rare earth minerals are really those of free market capitalism, not electric vehicles. There's scope for an ethically produced electric vehicle using 'conflict-free' rare earths. But if you look at the ethically produced mobile phone Fairphone, you'll see that it's incredibly niche when competing in a free market. Virtually no one wants to pay for those foreign kids to have a decent wage when it's cheaper to be complicit in their exploitation.

Electric vehicles aren't an attack on our way of life, you won't be judged for preferring the ICE. Burn petrol because you love it, don't hide behind sloppy arguments.

Potentially controversial prediction: in a few years time electric vehicles will become a novelty and a commercial white elephant. Manufacturers will continue with the latest versions of I.C.E. using biofuels. Not entirely my own prediction but partially borrowed from Ross Brawn (F1) who knows a few things :wink_smile:

Electric cars don’t pollute at source is their advantage, so cities have cleaner air. Could we grow enough to fuel transport and also feed the world? How carbon neutral is that?