Rear suspension trailling on the floor
 

Good Evening Folks

Just been away for the weekend first tow with this car V90 not exactly as expected The rear suspension seems to be a problem as when the caravan was hitched up the car was trailing on the floor the rear tyres were inside the wheel arch by about 50%. The nose weight was measured it was 100Kg so not overloaded.

Anyone else had this issue if so how did you solve it.

I do not want to take this out again until a solution is found as it made the normally ok steering very light.

Any help is greatly appreciated

Thanks
Beetee

Something not right there. I have a v60 and with the tow ball / Hitch weight At 90kg the rear is down about an inch from normal. Do you also have a heavy load in the boot before hit hung up the caravan?

As Nick says something not right.

More info. might help.

How did you weigh the nose weight?

What else did you have in the car?

Was the boot full?

Were the rear seats occupied?

Did you have a roof box?

Does your V90 have the optional active \ air suspension?.
dis it return to normal when you unhitched the van?

Hi All
I will try to answer Whymans questions first
1) No roof box
2) Standard suspension
3) Nothing in the boot
4) Nose weight measure with a calibrated nose weight gauge
5) 2 adults on board total 24 stones
6) Nothing in the rear seats except the awning 30kgs

The nose weight stated by Volvo for the car is 110kgs

Uniqueue i have crawled under and yes it is a transverse spring and it appears to be some type of plastic!!!

Would changing the shock absorber help Bilstein do a shock which they recommend for heavy loads and towing B6 Sport I think its called

Thanks again

Rear suspension dampers have no effect on the ride height, that is the springs job .
The car is adequate for the job , take the whole rig down to the dealer let them have a look at it .

what happens of you sit on the edge of the boot does the car go down a lot? you would be a similar weight to the caravan i would think . or get 2 people to sit there.

The rear spring is a composite material first used on the 960 23 years ago developed with Lotus so well proved .

Hi folks
Thought i would post a couple of images of the car having had it out last weekend again still don't think this is right. Also the whole unit feels unstable i suspect this maybe because the front seems to be lifted due to the saggy bum.
Does this look right to any of you guys any useful comments are more than welcome
Facts
1 car boot empty save spare wheel and Volvo supplied tools
2 rear seat empty
3 two occupants in the front about 24 stones
4 105kgs Nose weight
5 All up weight of the van 1850Kgs over public weighbridge
6 Tyre pressure car 38 psi calibrated gauge used
7 Tyre pressure van 42 psi calibrated gauge used

no images there to look at .... ?

Sorry folks
Just seen this and tried to repost the images but unable to do so can someone do a walk through of the please.
I have tried the instruction on the help pages but no joy i know the problem appears to be the file size 4Mb but i have no idea how to reduce this.

Regards

Number 4 raises a question, what is the permissable nose weight for your car?

I ask as both my manual P1 V70 and manual P3 XC70 have a nose weight limit of 75kg

With a measured nose weight of 75kg the V70 dragged it's arse, but it was a softly sprung car, you really noticed it when passengers got in the back and 200k miles did not help. The XC70 by comparison may drop an inch at most. It is a firmer sprung car BUT it's ride hight is higher, hence the caravan and car sit more level.
The effect of nose weight is greatly increased if the hitch is low, while you need a slight nose down for stability too much and you loose both stability and crest clearance. All those gouges on speed calming humps are caused by low vehicles and towbar.

As a last resort can you still get the inflatable spring as sisters that fit inside the rear coil springs.

Paul.

Hi green Van Man
The nose weight for the car in the handbook is 110kgs so yes i am getting near the limit.
I have been in touch with Graystone engineering re spring assistors but as its a transverse leaf they dont do one however they have put me in touch with a Dutch company that do a coil over set up for the rear just waiting their response.

as an aside does anyone know how the rear shock absorbers are removed and can do a quick walk through i need to know how the top mounting bracket is secured to the car and how to remove it.

Thanks
Beetee

If you have the nivo's on the rear a saggy rear end is a common problem.

I carry a lot of load in mine and sometimes tow. The rear used to sag a lot but now with the coilovers on it takes very heavy loads well. My current V90 is the non nivo type and that was also saggy on the rear so I popped coilovers on that too.

https://www.classicswede.co.uk/Coilo...5_4319649.aspx

Is this car not a fairly new V90 ? If it's the car in the signature its no more than three or four years old

All
For clarity this is a Dec 2019 car which has the transverse leaf spring.
Does any one know how the top mount of the rear shockers are attached to the car? If anyone can do a walk through of the shock absorber removal i woul really appreciate that.

do you have the self levelling rear dampers ?

Good Afternoon Clan
the vehicle has normal suspension not self leveling mores the pity. I intend to replace the rear shock absorbers with uprated ones and a self leveling kit from Greystone Engineering which believe adds additional springs to the shock absorber although i have not seen them as yet.

have you tried reducing the ball weight to 80 kg or so ? what difference would that make ?

I have not tried reducing the nose weight as this would make an already unstable unit lethal. The recommended calculation for nose weight should be 5-7% of the loaded weight of the van so at the low end that would be 100Kg and at the high end 140Kg. So i think running at 80Kgs would make this van tail happy and an unhappy pilot.

Well it would seem you may have the wrong spring , the one from the Self levelling car .... I would suggest this to the dealer ....

Historically the volvo noseweight has always been around 70 - 90 kg

The nose weight in the book is listed at 110Kg for this car which is probably about normal for most cars of this size. You suggest it may be the wrong spring are you thinking that it may have the self leveling spring or the other way round.
Re the dealer not much help there basically they are saying were not experts in towing so cant comment repeating the blurb in the book about 110Kg nose weight showed them the nose weight when there and the response was it is what it is Not all helpfull.

That's a poor response from them , the spring for self levelling will be softer , they should have at least checked the part number on the spring and their service bulletins and sent a technical report about your problem . That's how a problem starts to be resolved.

Clan
From my experience of car dealerships unless its an easy fix or a known problem they put up all sorts of arguments not to get involved and i believe this to be a classic example. In the truck world they will get a regional technical manager involved as soon as the operator starts to moan Why? because they want to keep selling me trucks the car dealer sees it as a one off sale!!!

Anyhow my moan about dealerships does not solve the problem is there any way of to find out the correct part number of the spring that should be fitted to the car without involving the less than helpful dealership?

There are 121 Volvo dealers in the country and I have faith in every single one of them knowing how they operate , what kind of people they employ and what they have to do to pass volvos tough quality standards .

Unfortunately you have come across one or two unhelpful INDIVIDUALS who need educating .
I would turn up with your caravan and a sagging V90 , ask for the service manager , and say look , what's wrong with it . I want it sorted out and explain to the service manager your past experience with them and your suspicions as to what it might be ..

No , only dealers can look up part numbers on their secure systems ..
you might look for the part number on the spring label .

This makes the 'van MIRO as 2,000kg. That is very heavy, are you sure it's correct?

I see there are 2 towing limits for the D5, one for cars equipped for higher towing weights, and one without. 1,800 and 2,200kg are the quoted maximums.

The kerb weight of the V90 is 1710 kg - 2050 kg without passengers & luggage (I Think) so towing 2,000kg is never going to be the most stable.

One thing I have learnt is not to load the boot with weight when towing, as you have already done. I find it much better with the kit over the axle of the caravan.

Hi Fresh Air
I appreciate that 2000kg is a heavy van and yes i am 100% sure that it is correct (Swift Elegance 645), I would also point out that i am no novice to towing or vehicle loading having towed for over 40 years across this country and the whole of europe!!

The cars towing limit is 2200kg the kerb weight over the bridge with a full tank and driver is 1950KG. All up the car loaded ready to roll is 2200kg. Whilst i accept the van is slightly heavier than the car in an unloaded condition this should make no difference to the stability unless it is being driven by a lunatic and i do not fall into that category.
The issue is with the rear suspension trailing on the floor and lifting the front wheels thus lightening the steering.
As said already the car has a nose weight limit of 110kg and i have tried to stick to 100kg this provided Volvo are not be economical with the truth should run level and stable.

Nice caravan. MIRO is 1,700kg so at 5% gives 85kg.

Not much difference between 85kg and the 100kg you are running at, and with kit in the car on rear seats you would expect it to not be dragging the rear of the car.

I've not got as much experience as you, only 10 years now. I started out with 1,250kg 'van (actual with kit in on weighbridge) and car that was about 1,300kg before luggage. That was OK up to 60mph, but you really noticed if it went over that or there were cross winds. Big difference towing same 'van with a 1,700kg car, super stable up to higher speeds, although I kept to 60mph normally. So you weight match is very close to 100% so will have similar stability to what I started with, albeit improved for you by the twin axle of course.

I also noticed with the first car I was using that having too much weight in the boot was bad, rookie error, now goes over the axle in the 'van. It is way better that way.

Hope you get a suitable resolution, as both the car and 'van you have got are great. So many resort to SUV's these days for towing. Estates are so much nicer.

Fresh Air
The MIRO is 1700 and is of absolutely no consequence as this is the unladen weight. The only weight that is of any consequence is the the gross weight (ie loaded ready to go)of the van which is 1863KG or in my case 2000kg as it has the weight upgrade.
As i have said the issue is not the caravan i believe the car is not man enough i think the spring is to soft and as there is no alternative then i am stuck with it.
The problem as i see it the rear end sag lift the weight off the front wheels therefore there is lack of feel in the steering so when being overtaken for example the bow wave of the other vehicle causes the van to move slightly then my input on the steering is exaggerated because of the lift on the front wheels due to the a4se trailing on the floor.

Regards
BWT

have they checked that you have the correct rear spring?

Very good observation there! I heard that if Nivomat springs are used without then they are very soft!

Don’t know if that’s a possibility on this model as I have a different vehicle.

With a 110kg nose weight and that level of collapse it’s nothing to do with upgrading stuff and all to do with an error.

Clan
According to the "experts" at Volvo it is the correct spring and say there is nothing wrong with the way its sitting. When i suggested they take it for a hurl that was a different matter the guy who drove it is a caravanner on his return he was visibly whiter than when he left!!!

When asked what they were going to do they did the usual blamed the van it is not as i have tried another which is about 300kg lighter and it is exactly the same.

So i now have £85000 worth of car and caravan which are not safe for the road thanks a lot Volvo.

So the sales guy took the car and van out? That’s a new one on me, surely visually he’d be able to tell it wasn’t right? I certainly wouldn’t trust anyone to take my 1k 2003 V70D5 manual out with my elddis, let alone 85k worth of kit. Will stick with my old faithful that tows our 26ft twin axle elddis Avante, 230k on the clock and it sits and tows perfectly too. Long live the older stuff.

I assume you have towed your Elegance with another car before thus ruling the 'van out?

I tow an 2018 Elegance 580 and would say it is not the most stable van I have ever towed though generally has given no cause for concern behind any of the 3 Volvo's I have towed it with. The 645 is the same layout but with an extra axle so not really comparable anyway.

Could you try another caravan with the car to check?? Or another 'van with the car?

I notice you are local to me, guessing you bought your caravan from the same dealer as me .... do they have any other customers towing with a V90? Have they heard any issues? If it is Duncans Alistair did ask me a Volvo related question a while ago but I can't now remember what!!!

I have friends who tow with a V90 Cross Country (self levelling) with no issues.

Have you considered the height of the towball?
When you measure the nose weight of the caravan presumably it is sitting level on its twin axles. In this condition, measure the hitch height and compare it to the car. And perhaps set the caravan hitch height to that of the car's towball unloaded and then measure the noseweight. I'd imagine a twin axle caravan could exert a much increased noseweight until it finds its level.

Rich850R The salesman did not drive the car it was one of the fitters and I was happy for this to happen as the guy was not some wee boy and appeared to have his head screwed on. ANyhow i also had it in writing that the dealership were taking all responsibility as the vehicle was being driven by their staff.

Iain McL 1970
I have tried the van on another vehicle and no issues that was a Passat which as you may know is very much lighter than the Volvo. I took it along the M8 and passed other vehicles without any really issue then slowed down to 55 and allowed lorries to pass again nothing to cause any concern.
The van came from a dealership in Yorkshire as have most of my vans for the last 20 years. The reason is simple the difference in cost can be as much as £3k and i have not had the best relationship with Duncans.
Unfortunately the car does not have self leveling i am currently trying to find if any after market manufacturer makes self leveling shock absorbers for this car.

[QUOTE=BWT;2724359]Rich850R The salesman did not drive the car it was one of the fitters and I was happy for this to happen as the guy was not some wee boy and appeared to have his head screwed on. ANyhow i also had it in writing that the dealership were taking all responsibility as the vehicle was being driven by their staff.

assuming they had followed due diligence like yourself in ensuring that guy who had his head screwed on had the correct entitlement to drive on his license before he took it out?

Not the reply you want, but.
I have been towing for 40 years.

A few years ago I changed to a Honda Accord. The previous BMW320d was a good towing car.

The rear of the Honda sagged and it was very unstable. I tried altering the nose weight between 60kg & 120Kg. still unstable.

I tried towing the van with a friends similar sized car - Fine
I tried towing his similar sized van with the Honda - still unstable.

In the end I gave up and cut my losses, I wasn't prepared to tow in a combination I was not feeling safe in.

I had to put it down to experience.