Diesel Particulate Filter - Wish List
 

I have recently purchased a 2008 V70 SE 2.4D Geartronic and have been looking at threads relating to regeneration of the DPF.

It appears that most owners are unhappy with their DPF and the way in which Volvo have been economical with information regarding the ongoing maintenance problems, that can arise.

Wouldn't the following options have been nice if they had been included in the Driver Information System....
1. An indictaion of the DPF status - eg. 25% Full or 50% Full etc.
This could replace the useless Average Speed option and perhaps allow you to plan some 'regeneration compatible' journeys.

2. A user selectable option, to manually 'Request DPF Regeneration'
This would allow you to request a 'forced' regeneration, if it was known that a long journey was about to be made.
Regeneration would only be carried out if the Engine Management System agreed that the DPF would benefit from a regeneration, during the journey.
If this option was never used, then 'normal' DPF regeneration would be triggered on an as-needed basis.

I think that Volvo owe us a more flexible solution regarding this DPF maintenance and the above would surely be achievable via a software upgrade.
I am sure that in the long term it would be in Volvo's interest to address these DPF shortcomings and lift the image of their diesel engines.

but if you could regenerate it manually, think of all the money they'd lose doing it for you!

i thought all that was needed to clear a dpf is a good motorway blast every now and again.????

surely if you do this once a fortnight, problrm solved.

Thats true, but a 20 min blast in mid revs down the motorway in 6th is about 90 and I don't think the policeman is likely to let you off because you we're doing some 'car maintenance'

Are you saying that the DPF is cleared every time I give the car a good long blast!
I think the old MPG would suffer quite dramatically (which it isn't).

Surely, there must be some upper parameters within the Engine Management System which trigger an auto regeneration and I assume that if these are not met, then even a blast down the motorway would not necessarily achieve regeneration.

If I remember rightly it tries to do a regeneration every 500ish miles (it says in the manual). but it'll only do it when the engine is warm, and will screw up if you turn the engine off while its doing one. It should really have a way to manually induce it or at least till you it's doing one.

This is what it says in the manual:
Diesel particle filter (certain models)
Certain diesel cars are equipped with a particle filter which results in additionally effective emission control. When the engine reaches its normal operating temperature (the engine is warm) a so-called "regeneration" of the filter takes place automatically, which means that the particles collected in the filter are burned away and the filter is emptied. Regeneration takes between 10 and
15 minutes. During this time fuel consumption may increase slightly.

Winter driving
If the car is frequently driven short distances in cold weather then the engine does not reach normal operating temperature. This means that regeneration of the diesel particle filter does not take place and the filter is not emptied. When the filter has become approx. 80% full of particles then a yellow warning triangle in the dashboard display is shown along with the warning text
SOOT FILTER FULL SEE MANUAL. Regeneration should be carried out regularly if the car is frequently driven short distances in cold weather in order to avoid impaired function of the filter.
• Start regeneration of the filter by driving the car until the engine reaches normal operating temperature, preferably on a main road or motorway. The car should then be driven for approximately 20 minutes more.

• To clear the warning text when regeneration is complete, switch off the ignition, remove the key, wait for at least three minutes and switch the ignition on again.

• Use the parking heater (option) in cold weather so that the engine reaches normal operating temperature more quickly.

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice...e-filters.html

Going for a 15-20 min blast on the motorway, with hard acceleration on the slip roads every now and again is surely a lot better than a £1000 repair bill. Besides its another excuse to go out for a drive in the car.
Lets say with diesel at £1 a litre, 4.5 litres in a gallon and an average mpg of 45, how far would £1000 get you?

£1000 = 1000 litres
1000 litres = 222.2 gallons
222.2 gallons * 45 mpg = 9999 miles
9999miles / 50miles = 200 50mile trips
1 50mile trip a fortnight = 26 50mile trips a year
200 trips / 26 50mile trips a year = enough trips for 7.7 years

dont know about you, but i think id be going for a blast once every other weekend.

I do agree with you though that an indicator to show when a regeneration is needed, or when active regeneration is taking place so that you do not switch of the engine mid cycle, would be of a benefit to most drivers

It does sound like a really good idea.

I bet the reason they didn't do it was an awful lot of people are stupid ;) Can you imagine.... "My car told me it was doing something and to continue driving so I did, I only wanted to go to Birmingham but ended up in Scotland" ;)

I have just joined the volvoform because of a soot filter problem because we are, quite frankly, at our wits end. We bought our Volvo v70 for local driving (3 kids) and had the extra seats fitted in the back for ferrying extra children round too. We were very explicit about why we wanted the car and also bought 3 volvo car seats from the dealer. After 4 weeks we got soot filter full message and could not do a regeneration as we did not address the problem straight away as we did not realise the significance. The car was under warranty and the garage did a regeneration and the Particle filter was replaced. We did not understand the significance the impact of our "local driving" on the DPF system as we were not told that this car was not suitable for local driving.

Since then the soot filter full sign comes on and sometimes we are able to regenerate it (we have to drop everything and drive down the A3 for 20 minutes) but other times we cannot regenerate it ourselves and this is particularly true when the weather is cold. Now the car is no longer under warranty if we cannot regenerate the filter we have to pay £150 a time for the garage to do it. I have lost count how many times the car has been in the garage or how much diesel I have burnt up driving along A roads to try and regenerate the filter. On one particular occasion the power had gone and I was crawling along the A3 dual carriage way at 30mph with my three kids in the car!

The car simply rules our lives. I feel I cannot drive it locally any more as I just know every two weeks the soot filter full sign will come up. What is evident from joining this forum and reading the posts that this is a problem for many people and I feel let down by Volvo if they sold us this car knowing that it could not function on just local driving. Any advice on what to do? We simply cannot afford a new car and no-one will touch this car when they see its service history!! I am thinking of writing the Sunday times/BBC watchdog and will be contacting Which Legal team as I feel Volvo know about this issue and are fobbing people off and in the meantime their customers are left with cars they cannot run or afford to run. Your comments will be helpful!!!

vovlomum, If you are going to complain to those that you mentioned I recommend that you have as much information as possible and from your well written post I see the following is missing:

You bought the V70 from a dealer, is this a Volvo dealer or a used car dealer?
What was the millage on the V70 when you bought it?
How many miles did the V70 cover when you first had the problem with the DPF 4 weeks later?
How many miles does the V70 cover between each DPF problem?
What fuel are you using? (name of supermarket or brand and product name)

I ask the last because I think, sorry I can't prove it!, so that's why I say I think that if you use a fuel like Shell V-Power Diesel you would have less DPF problems. My thinking is based on the following emissions information:

Regular Diesel BS EN 950 maximum parameters
Carbon Residue 0.3% mass, Ash 0.01% mass, Particulate Matter 24mg/Kg

Shell V-Power Diesel maximum parameters
Carbon Residue <0.1% mass, Ash <0.001% mass, Particulate Matter 2mg/Kg

Based on these figures the Shell V-Power Diesel gives significantly less Particulate Matter and it may turn out that using cheap diesel could be partly to blame for this problem.

Personally if I were only doing local driving I would probably opted for a petrol fuelled car.

Best of luck though and hope it hasn't put you off the brand too much.

Well yes, but lets be fair if you are not aware of the implications of owning a car with a DPF, when doing mostly short urban journeys. You don't realise it's not the car for you. And would rightfully expect the sales person on knowing your driving routine, would have made you aware of the facts.

Volvomum did make their requirements known to the sales person that sold the car to them.

To be honest I bought the Volvo after the wife's head on collision, because she insisted. Simple as that, because she was one emotionally strung out lady, and those kinda lady's are hell to live with, trust me.

She and I saw it as a brand renowned for its safety. And taking into consideration its build quality coupled with the known longativity of diesel engines. And fantastic fuel consumption compared to petrol models. And last time I owed a diesel it have 6 monthly services, so given that it is now 12 month services, it all stacked up to a good deal as far as I was concerned.

I loved the Volvo and all its kit, nor in the nine months I owned it did the DPF give me any problems. But once I found out about the implications of having a DPF, and doing mostly short urban journeys. And with the Wife hankering for the ease of driving a Focus again. I decided to sell it, before its 6th year DPF replacement service became due. And now in a petrol Focus 1.6 returning 28mpg.....bugger, I was getting 42 mpg in the Volvo....but the wifes happy http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/boogie.gif

What if you bought your car not knowing it had a DPF?

Then you find out it has one, then you find out at the end of its lease the last volvo dealer didn't change it at the required mileage.

Mine was an ex lease car and on the next service my garage told me it needed changing as it hadn't been changed. Most of my mileage is local with the occasional long blast on the motorway.

There must be a lot of owners out there with a similar looming large bill at the next service.

My inlaws have had the said same problem with 2 new Citroens they have had!! The problem has increased in new cars because of the stricket emmision laws now in place.

Regardless of DPF or not I would choose a petrol over a diesel if I were only doing short journeys - the economy of the latter wouldn't really be benificial in such a case.

A bit of a clue when you see virtually all the small town cars being petrol.

I do spreadsheets for all sorts of things, running the car, utility consumption and costings. So doing the maths on our last twelve months motoring. We clocked 5.5k of which 2k was on two holiday trips to Dorset and Devon [Now that was when the S40 came into its own, munching motorway miles]

Anyway, the 5.5k in the S40 2.0D 54 plate costs £687 in fuel. In the Focus 1.6 petrol 55 plate, it costs £878. [ diesel £1.10, petrol £1.09] So a saving of £191 in fuel over the Focus. But subtract a £73 saving to insure the Focus. And costing out the six year cycle of maintenance of the DPF. Two three yearly Eloys top ups. And every sixth year DPF replacement [£600 estimated in total] so £100 per annum over six years.

So £191- £173= £18 per annum saving running the S40. Bare in mind it costs £200 less to put a full set of the same brand tyres on the Focus. And I know the servicing and parts renewal will be cheaper on the Focus.

I have to keep bring up the cost savings of running the Focus because I'm really missing the S40 :notworthy:

Of course if we were doing 15K+ a year, no way would I have let the wife get her bum back in a Focus again. But at 5.5k I lost the cost savings argument.

i work for europes largest truck/bus DPF supplier.

if its just a filter it is quite possible to clean them , by putting them in an oven at 600'c for a few hours to burn all the soot off .

if the vehicle has a cat in before the DPF then , the situation is helped , but thats not always the case. soot builds up even if the filter has regenerated - it then needs cleaning or replacement .

you can only clean a filter a certain number of times - after that it needs replacement .

to help regeneration - some models use a catalayst added into the fuel to lower the temperature of regeneration , you could also try fitting a pre heater in the exhaust .

the other option is bi fuel .

Another is contacting me and seeing if we can help with the situation .

yes but look at the cost of a 2.0d S40 against a similar sized petrol engine, new theres over £1,500 difference and even second hand a diesel will be dearer.

STOP BLAMING VOLVO FOR DPF ISSUES

Go to any forum... VW, FIAT, Audi, Vauxhall, Ford. DPF Issues are all over the place.

Government criteria and climate change.. "reducing cO2 emissions". These are reasons for the problems.

The engines would be flawless without DPF's, EGR's etc.

DO NOT BUY a modern diesel engine if you do less than 20,000 miles per year. These engines are NOT SUITED for pootling around town for 2 minute journeys.

All of the above listed manufacturers offer 1.4 turbo charged petrol engines with 150bhp + and useful torque figures - All capable of high 30mpg/low 40mpg.

I don't see how you interpret the discussions surrounding the issues with DPF's as being a direct attack on Volvo ? Where do you get that from?
I couldn't be @rsed to use capitals [wink]

We see thread after thread throughout the motoring forums, highlighting the fact many people were clueless [including myself] prior to buying and at the point of buying about the possible pitfalls with DPF's dependent on your driving needs.

Its as if the motor industry have agreed to keep DPF's a big secret as far as the uninitiated driving public are concerned. They are serving up to the likes of "Volvomum" [see her thread] a plate of cold "fate accompli" DPF issues soup. When it was obvious a diesel was not compatible with her driving requirements. You want a big safe car, you want it with a bit of umph, you want 50 + MPG, you want a 2.0 diesel madam. All these people opening threads about £1000+ DPF replacement costs, totally dumbfounded that they had one in the first place.

I don't see how you interpret the discussions surrounding the issues with DPF's as being a direct attack on Volvo ? Where do you get that from? I couldn't be @rsed to use capitals [wink]

We see thread after thread throughout the motoring forums, highlighting the fact many people were clueless [including myself] prior to buying and at the point of buying about the possible pitfalls with DPF's dependent on your driving needs.

Its as if the motor industry "at the point of sale" have agreed to keep DPF's a big secret as far as the uninitiated driving public are concerned. Come on be honest now, were you aware of DPF's and how they worked, when you bought your diesel ?

They are serving up to the likes of "Volvomum" [see her thread] a plate of cold "fate accompli" DPF issues soup. When it was obvious a diesel was not compatible with her driving requirements.

You want a big safe car, you want it with a bit of umph, you want 50 + MPG, you want a 2.0 diesel madam. All these people opening threads about £1000+ DPF replacement costs, totally dumbfounded that they had one in the first place.

Here you go, from the Ford forum, a guy buys a second hand diesel. Then learns about possible DPF' issues and is desperate to know if he has one, AFTER THE EVENT. So I advised him to contact his ford dealer, he got the answer back, it hadn't. So I replied as below.

It's a shame that this is the attiude taken by sales people etc. Fortunately, petrol engines are catching up. Look at this example from Renault:

Renault Clio TCE petrol
1149cc | 98bhp | 145NM | 60mph - 10.6s | top speed 114mph | 48MPG

Volvo need to jump onto this boat. If you compare the above with the 1.6d S40/V50 etc...a slightly bigger modern turbo petrol would easily get nice MPG like that.
.

Jeez that's bloody good, pity I'm not into French cars. Not saying they don't make some stylish cars. I just think French cars need to be bought new. If I took a French car into my mechanic with a fault. He would just shake his head and say, serves you right.

I drive a BMW 320d M Sport on a daily commute of 25 minutes (16 miles) each way on country lanes and the odd B or A road. I do 14,000 miles per year and I have had no issues whatsoever with the DPF on that. I am really surprised to hear of these problems on Volvo cars and not a little concerned as I have just ordered a new XC90!

My wife and I will share the two cars, and whoever is doing the most miles with the least load will take the BM, and the other the XC90. (We also go to Europe 2 or three times a year when the XC90 is really going to be needed).

Does anyone out there have similar driving patterns to us and have anything GOOD to say about the DPF? Has everyone had these problems?

Re: Renault Clio TCE petrol
1149cc | 98bhp | 145NM | 60mph - 10.6s | top speed 114mph | 48MPG

145NM torque! Muhahahahahah! (Sorry)

I know it's a small car but it must be a dog to drive!

I don't see it as a Volvo issue, in that it is any worse then with other marques, so no need to panic. It's just that some people have had issues with them, but as a percentage of the DPF's out there its tiny.

My own experience is, I bought a 54 plate S40 last January, it had 57,965miles on the clock, so still on the original DPF. I then put another 5,368 miles on it over 9 months. 2600 miles of that was undertaken over a 17 day period split between three holiday trips using the motorways to get there and back. Based in North Yorks, went to Dorset once Devon once and Lanarkshire in Scotland once.

The other 2,768 miles spread over the other 8.5 months. Split mostly between 2 mile town journeys, and the odd 19 mile round trip using bypasses and A roads to the next town.The on board computer had the average speed for the car over that 9 month period as 31mph [ I'd do 75mph in cruise on the motorways]

Never once did I have an issue with the DPF, no service messages, no limp home modes, nothing. Only thing I will say is on the town bypass, and dual carriage trunk road to the next town, I would give it a bit of wellie. Nothing silly, no wild driving, I drive on my gears not my brakes. Hell I'm 63 so hardly a boy racer.

Catch22
 

That is reassuring, the mix of miles is not too different from my own, although I probably do twice the total in a year or a bit more. So probably nothing to worry about then. :)

I do almost exactly the same daily mileage as you except mine is about 9 miles A road, 5 in the twisties and the rest driving through a small town (with no congestion tho) from the A to the B road.
My S60 hasn't had any DPF issues since I bought it in Oct 08 (06 Reg with 26k), and it's now done about 51k. I do put a shot of Millers in at every fill up and use Shell Diesel Extra. My MPG has dropped by about 5 this winter which could be because there's more soot build up as it doesn't warm up as quickly but I'm not sure, it could also be because I've put some sticky tyres on (instead of the fuel saver crap that it came with) and use the heated seat 'liberally'!

Either way, no issues with the DPF so far!


*As a side note, I don't really know why anyone would buy a diesel to only do urban trips? surely it would be cheaper to buy the petrol equivalent for less money to start with as you'd never do enough miles to start saving money with the diesel?

**As another side note how many people buy cars without researching them to find out about issues such as this!

For what its worth, all on Morrisons supermarket fuel with no additives.

Hello

DPF issues affect all manufacturers and indeed they are there due to the increasingly stringent emissions regulations.

Different manufacuturers handle the DPF system and info given to the customer via the manual and the dashbaord differently. Having worked on these systems and reviewed a number, Volvo's setup is very good.

However, low speed town driving is not a good combination with a DPF. It will clog and will only partially regenerate in service hence why you get the "DPF full" message and the need to firstly drive in a certain way (certain vehicle parameters met) for the in service regeneration to begin and then continue doing so until the procedure ends. Failing to do that, the system will note the degree of filter saturation and the lack of successful in service regenerations and required a bespoke engine programme called a "forced regeneration" ie done by a dealer.

As a manufacturer, the product needs to be in the market to be used by a range of people. Not everyone is mechanically minded. Also, something I once heard was remember how daft the average person is and then recall that half the population are more daft!

The idea of the "% full" DPF display is a good one giving customers the oppotunity to manually start a regeneration themselves at whatever % they like. But again, how many engineering minded customers are there? NB remember the in service regeneration uses a post-combustion fuel dosing to increase fuel vapour in the exhaust to then burn off the particulates in the exhaust. Indeed, the "oven at 600deg" is something we used to do on prototype DPFs. Thats the temperature the carbon particulates oxidise/ignite. Self cleaning ovens work the same way. Ash will be left in the DPF from the fuel and oil additives but NB DPF vehicles have specific engine oil and fuel additives are moving away from inorganic content ie reducing the ash content.

In many ways the DPF design is immature technology and not as yet perfect for its application. But, this affects all manufacturers and was a solution to short timeframe given to meet new emissions targets.

S

Diesel particulate filter and rising oil levels discussion
 

There are a number of threads scattered around the various boards for the models affected and it has been suggested to keep the discussion here as the issue is particular to the engines and not the cars.

All the other discussions are indexed in that thread and can be linked to from there to read the previous discussions. If you know of any other discussions let me know and I will add them to the list.

I have started using low soot diesel 6p per litre dearer but hoping it will avoid this problem. Shell V-Power diesel - BP Ultima diesel - Total Excellium diesel
Have not had soot filter full message just trying to avoid it

I have started using low soot diesel 6p per litre dearer but hoping it will avoid this problem. Shell V-Power diesel - BP Ultima diesel - Total Excellium diesel
Have not had soot filter full message just trying to avoid it !

I am now totally convinced that you have some commercial reason that drives you to recommend expensive fuel.

You tried to convince people that it was better as it had no bio-diesel in it and that it would prevent the excess sump oil - proved totally wrong - now you say it is low soot ...

total rubbish - again

ALL fuel in Britain is manufactured to very high, and very exacting standards and the standard fuel works perfectly in Volvo engines, I know that this is what I, and almost everyone else uses.

If you want to waste money, go for it, but please stop coming up with bogus reasons extolling imagined virtues to get others to use it.

nothing subversive or hidden agendas on my part just a new xc90 owner who loves his car and looking for solutions. Wikipedia entry on one of the low soot fuels below :-


V-Power Diesel



An Audi R10 TDI LMP race car, fueled on Shell V-Power Diesel
V-Power Diesel is Shell's version of an enhanced diesel fuel, similar, say to BPs 'Ultimate Diesel'. Like BP Ultimate Diesel, Shell V-Power Diesel is designed for modern compression-ignition diesel engines, to facilitate enhanced engine performance along with increased engine protection, for more consistent operation and engine longevity.[3]
V-Power Diesel is a blend of regular petroleum-based diesel and synthetic diesel, created using gas to liquids (GTL), along with some extra additives designed to clean the injection system and improve injection pump and injector lubricity.
One characteristic of V-Power diesel is that it is a lot clearer and odourless than normal diesel, mainly due to the synthetic GTL component.
The fuel is slightly less dense than regular diesel so, per volume, the unit energy is actually lower than regular diesel. This is offset, as the fuel tends to ignite more readily (and thus has a higher cetane rating) than regular diesel, and a side benefit of this is that it tends to produce less soot during combustion.



Please note the last line. If a cleaner burning fuel is used thats less soot to block the DPF, not rocket science is it ?
I agree that I have posted an incorrect post on bio fuel levels in diesel but I did correct this immediately I learnt of my mistake. I am on a learning curve with this problem like the rest of us. I am following this line of thinking because I really think it has a possible benefit to all us unfortunate DPF owners. All readers in the volvo community can make their own judgements.

Low soot is delivered by using ULSD (Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel) fuel and almost all fuel in UK is refined to that standard - it has nothing to do with the-detergents that are added to the fuel after refining to create the v-power style of fuels.

Many companies call the ULSD fuel City Diesel and you don't need to pay a premium for it. I would also expect that Shell etc would advertise the virtues of Low soot on the V-Power if that were fact, strangely they don't mention it - the manufacturers sites are much more accurate and trustworthy than any wiki :)

As said before, I ALWAYS use standard diesel, have done for 15 years, and have never had an issue with any of my Volvos - all diesel, or any of the fleet cars that I used before then and we had to use the cheapest fuel.

You call, but 6p per litre is an awful lot extra to pay for fuel, especially when it is not required.

you may have used standard diesel for 15 years that is now irrelevant as we now have DPF diesels which are blocking up. Natural gas to liquid technology is far more than added detergents. google it and learn.

see link below which is one small example

http://www.world-gtl.com/

One of the unfortunate aspects of the internet and google is that anyone can find facts to support any argument, given the time and the inclination.

Yes, fuel is being manufactured now as well as refined, (it has been for many years) but it has always had to meet the same standards in UK. Some - very few - DPFs are requiring forced regeneration, but this is not because of the fuel, it is because a diesel engine is being used when a petrol engine should be used.

DPFs will not block when the vehicle is used correctly and there is no need to use expensive fuel with added detergents, if it was required then the manufacturers would specify it, and they don't.

I am sure that you will google all this and that you will find some other 'fact' to justify your position, feel free to do so, feel; free to use expensive fuel when there is no need, but please post complete information and facts not just the part that you hope justifies your incorrect argument.

Perhaps it is you who should start learning!