BKV 2018 all events north main and southh
 

Maybe it’s me? How can anyone with a degree of common sense in class 10, judge a convertible against a new V40 or in my case aV50. I appreciate that we have to streamline. The northern BKV I was judged against a beautiful C70 Sunday car, an 11 plate V40.. Mine a daily driver 170000 miles 2006.
It is crazy I do not care what the people who set it up say.
We need to rethink. A convertible is what it is Mk1 or Mk2. It is not an estate no matter what platform unless we judge the underside.
I know this subject has been discussed before but unless common sense prevails I will never enter another.
I have been in club scene all my life and have never encountered this ie VW versus Audi or Skoda all use the same platform. Come on wake up and get real.
David Pearson. Yorkshire Sec.

I believe the subject of judging "shared platform" cars has been discussed before but not sure which section. Perhaps a moderator can advise and direct the OP accordingly.
Personally a platform is a platform, and don't criticise when either judging or exhibiting - I do what I do for the pleasure also admiration of other enthusiasts' work.

Paul
Volvo 140 series registrar, meaning estates, coupe's and saloons

I have to ask if this is the correct theatre in which to discuss this matter. We should be cautious of doing our dirty laundry in public and if Mr. Pearson has an issue surely he should at least discuss it with his fellow officials in the Club before going public in this way?

Regards, John.

Where should this topic be aired “ behind closed doors.
I am afraid we all have a view so let it be shared. Perhaps then a better view can be considered by the select few.
You may disagree with me that is your right. I stand by my comment.
We all own volvo’s so why shy away from a complaint. Who do you make comment to.
Regards David

David, you may or may not have a case, so whether I agree with you or not is academic. As an officer of the VOC, I would have expected you to take the matter up with your colleagues on the board. If you then decided to go public, I feel that you may have received a more sympathetic response to your 'complaint' had you been less confrontational in your post. But you are, of course, perfectly entitled to do it your way.

John.

Of course it is. If matters are not discussed out in the open then it leaves accusations of brown envelopes behind closed doors.

I've judged at the National for Class 10 - its actually a very under-subscribed class normally. 2 years running I think there were maybe 5 or 6 cars in there - most of which were C30s.

The judging is based around overall points - not a convertable vs hardtop vs saloon. Cross judging between them's pretty easy as you can run on overall condition. Scratched roof on the saloon vs pristine soft-top? Vice versa?

In theory you can judge a P1800 against the newest XC90's.
If the XC90 has worse paint - be it swirls, scratches, hedge marks, dings from trolleys in Tesco, or mud in the footwells, or a scratch on the alloys, or a filthy engine bay ... it won't get good points. If the P1800 has just come back from a £20k ground up rebuild with all new parts, and has driven 3 miles since ... then it'll natually score the higher points.

A few questions back at you, to entice the discussion along a little bit ...

Did you offer to assist with the judging at all?

Can you recomend how you would break down the classes, without us ending up with 500 different classes? Should my V70R AWD be judged against the 2.0L S70s, and the 2.5 T5 C70s? Should 700's be judged with 900s? Where should V90's go? They're more 900 series than they are 850/V70?

Classes will always be a bit of a bone of contention, and will always be a work in progress, to make sure its as fair as possible. Generally the big issue is with getting enough judges. As a Section Secretary you're perfectly placed to volunteer to help ...

James

John, you state that I am discussing the clubs dirty laundry in public. I do not state it is dirty laundry it is a valid discussion. The last post sums up the whole point a newly restored P1800 would win over a new XC90. How can it be the XC90 is original where as the P1800 is not original it is restored.
If I were to judge I would much prefer to judge the most original well kept vehicle against the same. The restored class against the same. If not the person with the biggest cheque book wins every time.
I have always loved car shows and been in many but I have never encountered a class based on a stock platform. In this day and age many manufacturers use the same platform. As stated in the previous post class 10 was poorly attended maybe this is why. Anyone else have a view.
David.

This is why I never show my cars, even in the days I ran a classic as an everyday driver.
For me practicality over originality every time and we're I judging, a scruffy used car would score more than a pristine show car every time. They were after all made to be used not parked.

I attend car shows to meet fellow enthusiasts and seek bargains at the auto jumble, those that show their cars must do so in the hope someone will notice their efforts, many do but quantifying one man's effort against another is another thing.
The home restored car would score far more than a professionally restored one with me. The owner did his best with the first and discussion as to how it may be improved is worthwhile. The owner paid someone else to do the work and will grizzle over any defect with the second.

Paul.

It's not just Volvos.

The BMWCC has had much discussion and debate on this. Judging a restored or unrestored old car against a new vehicle with low miles.
Then there was the question of originality in terms of mods to the vehicle and in open classes this was marked and then this changed so modded vehicles would be judged.

In the master class originality was considered and marked. As was mileage.

The trouble for the older car is keeping them that way when parts are NLA. To keep originality means keeping the mileage down to preserve condition and therefore limiting available points.

I have entered and judged at BMW and open show. I find open show easier as all you can go on is condition as originality is not necessarliy known as it is impossible to know every spec of every vehicle.
There is also less "feedback" because of this.

Therefore I do not go to single make shows any more.

Just my ramblings.......