Am I getting cheated by the bodyshop ?
 

After inquiring on this forum on the the time it would take to change a slam panel, bumper, and wing, (see here : https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=285742 ). I agreed with the bodyshop on approximately 12 hours of labor for repairing a V40 (2002), last week I was told this was going to be 14 hours. I provided a slam panel sourced on the used parts market, along with other parts. My understanding was that this new panel was to be used to replace the one damaged. The work consists not only in replacing the panel (say 8 hours of work) but in straightening some elements (metal casing around the battery and the beam the wing is attached to).

But the bodyshop guy did not disclose to me that instead of replacing the panel, he intended to cut the old one where it was damaged and then weld a piece of the one I provided. I object that this was not what was agreed that by doing so they save a few hours of work still charging the same, and that if I ever want to sell the car the welds will be obvious reducing the value of the car. Besides I could have an issue with MOT too if they see this.
The bodyshop guy is not happy with my interfering and claims he is not cheating me on the hours worked , he also claims the welds will be unnoticeable (he cut the old panel at the light bracket and as far as I know there are no factory welds at those points, so there will be extra welds on that side) .

He says this is the usual way to do it, that one would not think of changing half of the car just to repair one side ! That I am not
a bodyshop guy and therefore should mind my business.
What do you think ? I told him I could agree provided the labor he charges is reduced .

This scenario is the very reason why bodyshops don't like dealing with private customers - too much grief for them.

From what you describe the car has had some front end damage on one corner, so bumper replaced, front wing replaced and slam panel repaired to suit. The bumper is bolt on as is the wing so easily replaced. The inner wing particularly at the front behind the headlight is quite thin so easily bashed out to fit. The slam panel is quite stiff so any damage would need to be cut out and replaced, which is what the bodyshop is suggesting.

If it was my car I would want one corner repaired and the minimum cut out and replaced. Why replace perfectly good original metal. A competent bodyshop will know what they are doing and will produce good welds etc.

What also bothers me is that the car has been at the shop for more than 2 weeks, and so far he has only straightened what little needed to be straightened (removing bumper and broken lights in the process) then recently cut off the panel, and I understand the whole repair is a 3-5 day job on average (a bit more than a week at the shop maybe) .

I think you're being a bit unfair. Sure, the welds will be noticeable. But if the repair has been carried out to a satisfactory standard then there should be no impact on car value. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just silly, there's no reason whatsoever to presume that a car which has collided is in any way unsafe.

I'll let you into a secret; Cars are welded together in the factory! Gosh!

Secondly, it's impossible to be exact with the time the repair will take. Thats' why it's called an estimate. Stretching cars back into their correct shape isn't easy, it requires massive hydraulics to undo, say, a 40mph impact. Cars are computer-designed to crumple and absorb impact, it did it's job. Traditionally a car from the 70s might have not needed any straightening and the damage might have been all cosmetic. But it wouldn't be as safe either.

The "chassis" is a complicated object. It looks from underneath, you've probably noticed, like a U-shaped piece running the length of the car, but internally there's a lot going on. The sills on my V40 (which is 18 years old) have at least three layers of metal, and in some places four, each with an exact gap between and contoured like origami to provide strength. This saves weight but is very strong. If you sliced a car in half from the roof to the floor, you'd see what i mean. Where pillars meet sills, sills meet floor, there's a lot going on in there. A modern car is doubtless even better designed that this.

14 hours actually sounds quite good to me. Especially when you consider the time for refinishing as well, and especially if they're paying extra care to not letting filth and dust get into the interior, painting all the bits under the panels you can't see, ensuring every last plastic clip is replaced correctly.

It's a skilled job, and it's a job I love. And taking extra care and attention over somebody's pride and joy seems perfectly reasonable to me.

EDIT: Agree he shoudl be getting on with it though, unless he's waiting on parts deliveries there's no reason to suspend the work.

The 14 hours agreed upon do not entail any paintjob as all the parts come from a V40 of the same color. It's kind of a back alley shop, all the well established places I contacted refused to work with used parts, which is understandable.
The fact is that the only bodyshop specific work was straightening out some parts, the rest is pure disassembly/reassembly. I was going to ask him to fix an unrelated dent on the car though, this is not accounted for in the 14 hours.

That said I just want to make sure what this guy is going to do is consistent with professional standards. It's hard for me to see how cutting out and welding is better than replacing if not for saving time. If that's the case it should be reflected in the bill, paying for two extra hours which are not really justified is not a big deal, but if he saves 5 hours and still charges for it that wouldn't be right especially given that the car I am getting back will have signs of a crash and repair.

Back street garages are the best. The reason for this is they can be ingenious and inventive, using parts which you've sourced, using half a part where the old one will do as you've described - for alignment purposes, see pattern parts never fit quite fight and need fettling. So chopping through an area where alignment is irrelevant is perfectly normal, the existing part remains aligned and the new part marries up to it. And it sill needs painting even if it's the same colour, which in reality is unlikely anyway. There's almost certainly going to be several variants of the colour during the production run of the car, they're never quite the same.

Think of it like buying a new kitchen. You might want this, or that, due to the layout of your room and it'll be "We can't do that." But a good carpenter could, if he just was a bit inventive and would actually chop and saw something instead of relying on off-the-shelf parts to just magically fit your house and filling the gap with yet another wine rack.

I've worked for high street-garages, and they're the ones of which you should be suspicious. They look professional with their liveried shops signs, their immaculate floors, their fancy overalls - but you pay for all that. And theprices seem reasonable ... well, that's because they're cutting costs and doing the bare minimum. They also rush everything. I was under constant pressure, and was unable to keep up with the work flow. It simply didn't meet my standards, but the boss didn't care about that at all.

We had an odd shaped kitchen done by a guy who used to be a wheelwright. Brilliant job.

One thing: There should be no external visible damage. It should return to you the same shape it was before collision. Under the bonnet there may be visible welds, which should be treated and painted on both sides. If this isn't the case, then you would be within your rights to complain, as welds rust like nobody's business if left unprotected.

But cars repaired by hand will never be the same as cars built by machines. For example, a robot with a sealant gun is not the same as a man with a brushable seam sealer. It doesn't mean it's not repaired properly, just a different method of achieving the same end result.

If it were easy everyone would be doing it. I have helped a mate out in his body shop, I'm no body builder but an enthusiastic ameture. When I was in collage many years ago I was taught that a properly executed weld was stronger than the parent metal and certainly I would rather buy an honestly repaired car than a hidden cut and shut.

A mate baught a Sierra, unknown to him a quarter of the car had been changed in order to repair crash damage, I found out because my body biulder mate was in the same scrapi buying wings for a job when the Sierra repairer was cutting off and buying the front ns quarter. The owner of the sierra never did find out why front tyres never lasted more than 10k and sold it on after 18 months or so. The repairer told him it was a hp repossession which accounted for the low price.

As for times, all I know is once the welder comes out the job is bound to grow. Your extra weld in the slam panel prevents paint burn off inside the undamaged wing, or do you expect your body shop to remove the undamaged wing to repair the paintwork on the inner wing that welding caused?

I know my mate would finish the repair such that it was un noticable, in fact he had more than one argument with punters whom accused him of not welding but filling with filler when repairing holes, he made sure to have witnesses to the fact it was welded before a light scim of filler to finish before painting. That is the skill of body work, no one can see your work.

You are in a rock and hard place situation, you say this was the only body shop who would use second hand parts. Your choice seems to be let him get on with it or take it away and do it yourself. You are obviously trying to do the job economically, as I see it just let him get on with it his way. If he is any sort of tradesman he will stand by his work..

Paul.

I tend to agree, the dealers and big garages for sure have their issues just as you mentioned. Everything is rushed at these places I heard that too.

Ok it seems the consensus is what the guy told me is nothing unusual .


Now there is one thing I have just thought about. Because of the accident, the turnlights on the other side got slightly misaligned with the body, it's no longer flush with the wing. I noticed it was still the case last week although my understanding was that he had straightened out everything. To me, fixing that particular misalignment required replacing the slam panel on which the lights are bolted. How is he going to correct this misalignment if he doesn't change the panel but cut it and weld ?