Towing caravan / snaking
 

I have been doing some research on this. I always thought that if the caravan starts to snake you accelerate out of it? I don't mean drag race style but a steady pull out of the snake?
I've towed heavy trailers with tons of stones etc but I'm new to towing caravans which will be affected by side winds etc.
What's your thoughts / opinions?

There was lots of chat about this on Caravan Talk a while back.
It appears that there are two schools of thought.
Accelerate out, or slow to remove the energy from the system.

I think the concensus was that few cars had the power to pull the rig straight. You really would need to accelerate drag style to pull it straight (like the weight at the front of an arrow).
Gentle slowing was the best bet for normal outfits, but neither option is guaranteed.

The best bet is to avoid the snake and careful weight distribution is the way to do this.

Ok cool thanks. kinda hoped the d5 had enough grunt to pull it out like, it's the hgv's that make me nervous

The anti snake bars are a good idea?

Don't worry about the HGVs.
Load your van correctly and you shouldn't have an unrecoverable situation.
I've even had to do an emergency swerve and brake on the motorway and caravan stayed stable. (I became quite unstable and wanted to kill the pillock who cut me up!).

They help with stability when being passed by a coach etc, but from what I've heard, don't help with a proper wobble.

The anti snake devices are recommended ?

http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/video/insurance/insurance-firms/towergate/video-top-tips-on-avoiding-caravan-snaking-accidents-$21382586.htm

http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/video/insurance/insurance-firms/towergate/video-top-tips-on-avoiding-caravan-snaking-accidents-$21382586.htm

I think best way to get out of it is to avoid it in the first place,

Only ever towed one caravan 40 miles and it was on mainly A roads and it was empty but it had an alko hitch on,

More used to towing my car trailer with cars on, fetched a transit connect back from darlington to leeds in gail force cross winds on A1 and could barly tell it was on back of my xc90

Don't overload the car in max weight terms or tow too fast in strong winds.
Self adjusting rear shocks (Many newer Volvo cars have them as standard) help slightly but are expensive to replace.

I tow a horse box that is max weight with one horse and have never had stability issues, although the German speed limit for any trailer on the autobahn is 100 kmph and I avoid strong winds.

I think the idea of accelerating out of a snake is a complete misconception put about by the likes of Clarkson as part of his anti-caravan show. As previously stated, you need to get energy out of the system to stop the snake, not add to it. Best idea is to prevent it in the first place. Stick to the 85% rule, get your nose weight right, all tyre pressures correct, any heavy items on the caravan floor over the axle.

It depends on many factors, there are several situations when a trailer can snake but in some of them you can recover normality by applying power - but just enough to go back to a situation where the car is pulling the trailer and not the trailer pushing the car - you don't want to be doing this down a long hill!

If you brake in these situations you will make it worse unless you brake hard enough to trigger the overrun brakes on the trailer - not something you want to do on the motorway.

It's difficult to describe, it's one area where there is no substitute for experience. The first time you get even a mild snake will be very scary.

Prevention is better than cure, as has been side keep the polar moment of inertia low (I.e. Weight over the axle not at each end) and aim for the maximum nose weight.

Another very big factor is the correct tow ball height for multi axle trailers - raise the tow ball to get a decent nose weight. Zero nose weight or less is bad.

If the tail is wagging the dog - straighten arms, hold steering wheel still, firmly.

So Im told anyway.

Very excellent

and then what's this all about?


Power off, loose on the wheel, let the trailer steer the car, pray.

snake
 

keep the steering straight and tight even the throttle to a balance of 50/50 not pulling / not slowing and keep the steering tight

the bigger question you need to ask is why or how...

this will hopefully never get out if hand

WHY
over weight, out of balance ,sharp steering and speed . also hard braking.

a snake bar or alko hitch tries to help with the above -
keep the steering tight
by coursing a resistance between the two pivots (the towball)

keep the rig balanced with the nose wight as spec to van or towbar witch ever is lower . keep wight in the van low to the floor as possible and any awning act bulk weight over the axle just forward never towards the rear .

when moving all inputs must be smooth no sharp movements of steering, the closer to your kerb /tow limit weight the more important this becomes as the van will want to over power the tow car . always allow more stopping time and use engine braking on hill to stop you brakes overheating ..engine braking still allows your caravan brakes to work on steep grades but allows the tow car brakes to rest/cool an art long lost with modern cars . still used today by hgv drivers to avoid runaways.

don't rush to get were you are going and be smooth . fast and furious leads to A @ E and get your passengers to turn them stupid phones off or throw then out the drivers window....:cellphone: be surprised the shock you can get off one ringing this can set you rig snaking by the input reaction in to the steering if your close to your limits (NOT JOKING)......
one last note is passengers been stupid moving around can affect the outfit too . keep it all smooth..

I agree with this 100% - when towing heavy weights early reactions and corrections are key to preventing a bad high risk situation - you need all your senses to be 100%.

Cheers for the advice, I will put it all to good use tomorrow when we head down to the bottom of Loch lomond.
Just needing to decide on Aberdeen route or a9 route. Aberdeen is a nightmare on a good day

If it was me I would be going down the Dundee route but it depends where you are setting out from.

Near Portsoy, the problem is Aberdeen and the road works

Aberdeen is a mess at the best of times and as for union square i'm saying nothing.!!
If you don't want to hit Aberdeen I would be going the Huntly route and going to Banchory then S.tonehaven.You could also go to Aviemore but it depends if you like the roads on that route.
Anyway what ever you choose enjoy your Hols.

Anti snake devises help, but only if they are properly maintained, I rebuilt my Alco hitch last year as the wear indicators were 3/4, amazing the difference it made, similarly the hitch overun damper, mine lost its oil, when a seal failed on the journey to Scotland, which resulted in very erratic caravan brakeing, £50 and 20 mins work saw a new one installed and predictable brakeing restored.

Paul.

I have heard that as well, although I think the 'accelerate out of it' solution is best suited to the Stigs of this world...!!

Whenever I have detected a bit of instability whilst towing, I have eased off the gas pedal, that is eased off, rather than just an abrupt removal of my foot off the pedal.

Regards

You don't really want to be accelerating - you are just applying enough power to restore a situation where the car is pulling the caravan, not the other way around. This usually restores most mild sways but obviously you don't want to be doing it on a hill...

So that's us back from our long weekend away. To be honest I don't know why I was worrying- just use common sense and keep alert!
Although one thing I've noticed is that when your towing a caravan you all of a sudden become very aware of the state of the roads in this country! The amount of pot holes, which normally you can dodge at the last second in a car, are ridiculous!! And not just in town driving. Sitting at 55-60 on the duel carriageway with a huge lorry passing you at the same time hitting a series of cracks and huge pot holes is no laughing matter!!

Top Gear caravan episode
 

Just happened to be watching a Top Gear episode in my brothers caravan on Saturday - they were not being kind to caravans. I was amazed at the amount of stick they were giving them yet they weren't straight to disaster or ruin, they took a lot of abuse before they failed.

On snaking etc, it really is down to load distribution and common sense.

Had a massive snake/sway what ever you want to call it.
towing a 1100kg van that we have had from new, now 9yrs old, with a Jaguar x-type 3ltr awd estate. weather good, road good, van loaded correctly, nose weight checked (how many people do that), ride height fine, tyre pressures checked and tyres no more than 3yrs old, car good, have towed this van with it three times before without problems, picking up speed from 50mph to 60 when the van started swaying violently throwing the rear of the jag from side to side, took my feet off the pedals and tried to hold the steering wheel straight, very lucky, the van 'kissed' both wings of the car enough to scuff the paint but not dent it, ended up with the nose of the jag in the crash barrier at about 5mph, no air bags set off, bumper did a good job but now need a new one or at least some paint, tow bar slightly bent, tyre damaged and wheel scrap.
I drive lgv's for a living so used to towing, had caravans for 35yrs and know how to load etc.
Scared the crap out of my wife.
Still no idea what coursed it.

That sounds horrifying, but at least there's only scuffed paint and no injuries. Presumably it's a setup you're used to and was previously predictable? I just wonder if it was some sort of malfunction such as caravan brake sticking or tyre going flat?

Not sure if this link will work, but:

https://www.facebook.com/dunlaoghair...1663689527395/

I didn't know that - looks like all models have it.

Brakes are fine, tyre blown while the van was dancing, heard it go. Caravan Club have test's which show that a blow out only rarely courses the caravan to lose control.
Towed the van with 8 cars, the jag was on it's third go, first two were fine, had the jag moted expecting it to fail on rear suspension which would explain it but passed no problem, caravan checked and serviced again no problems.

Good video, shows what loading wrongly can do.

Spot on advice. Anti-snake devices (now known generally as 'stabilisers') don't make a bad outfit good...but add a bit of extra to a good outfit! Get the basics right and all should be well. We travelled to Spain earlier in the year on a 15 wk tour doing 4000 miles with no 'hairy' moments. We have a 2010 v70se (only 136bhp) and the 'van is 1500kgs fully loaded, but I wouldn't take it any higher to give a bit of room for climbing some of the inclines. Also put some heavier kit in the car if you are close to the vans' weight limit.

Actually, in the States, truckers, what you here call HGV drivers, depending on what kind of truck and engine/transmission combination they have, usually have something called a "Jake Brake":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compre...e_engine_brake

This system - in the US (often you have three levels of "power" - for example a 6 cylinder diesel will then turn on 2, 4 or all 6 of the cylinders) works in such a way that as soon as you lift your foot from the accelerator, the "Jake" kicks in and retards the vehicle without using the regular brakes - in other words without wearing the brakes. Many leave it on all the time, except when it's slick - i.e.,. rain, snow, ice.

I understand that here in the EU you have to also apply some power to the brakes, which to me defeats a lot of the smoothness of using the system as it becomes second nature to use the Jake as a brake simply by lifting your foot, important when you spend 10 - 15 hours a day behind the wheel and 600 - 700 miles.

On the other hand, you don't use the Jake when it's slick as engaging it can be enough for the drive wheels on the semi (the towing vehicle) to break loose, possibly jackknifing the truck.

And the major rule still is; you go down the hill in the same gear you went up - i.e. - 3rd gear up, 3rd gear down..=*^)

A few examples of Jake Brakes - here's a competition for the LOUDEST Jakes (competition starts at about 06:00):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHTrEwRk0MU

In the uk most cars are manual gearboxes and can use the compression from the engine to slow the car and van down (unlike a auto) .I mentioned engine braking not jake brake .. But holding the caravan back in eg - second gear will allow the engine compression to slow the descent of the car/van with little use of the car brakes if needed by the caravan pushing on the hitch activates van brakes holding its own weight back. This works if the caravan brakes are working correct ....Point been is the car brakes are not taxed and if the van brakes fail you should still have all 4 brakes on the car to slow/ stop the decent. This was used a lot solo when cars were fitted with drums all round and would soon over heat if taxed too much ... I'm not a hgv driver and I don't think are hgv or many here have jake brakes fitted they rely on engine braking and gear choice to hold there decent .. There was many a runaway car/trailer - caravan runaway down Sutton bank in the Uk back in the day .. till they were banned from trying to climb or descend.. Up to the 80s or so ... Remember there was a bloke with a land rover or a big jag would spend all day charging folks to drag there caravan up the bank and hitch another to come down..People now all rely on there brakes to much with disk brakes as good as they are can still over heat ....Even driving test don't ask you to use your gears as you slow down to help braking ... Rely too much on them. My younger brother suffered from brake fade soon after passing his test down a steep bank ..He's ok but when asked were you not thought about brake fade and over heating your brakes and using the gears to help hold your decent/speed ... NO!! So later took him to the same bank and had to show him ..Same as he had no clue if the ign/charge light came on at 70mph and had lost his aux belt that he'd loose his power steering too.. This is what they should teach you to drive not take directions from a sat nav. May be a good idea to teach the wife to read a map lol..

I think all recent Volvo models have Trailer Stability Assist as part of the towing software.
The car will react to swaying by using selective braking, and even slow the car if it is too dangerous.

Yet another anti Darwenism measure:shocked:.

It's not automated systems make the roads safe it's competent drivers.

Paul.

I had an experience with snaking, altogether my own fault and one I have been keen ever since not to repeat.

In short, 4 Berth Bailey Moselle, towed by a then Audi 2.0 TDI ....

Coming home, my mate was with his outfit, had been a torturus journey home, weather/traffic etc.

Approx 5 miles from our mway jct we were sorted of racing to see who could get to the junction first, I say racing ....top speed was about 80mph, altogether reckless .....as we got closer to the junction i could feel it starting to get out of control and then real quick it was out of control.....how I managed not to end in a heap was through a bit of quick thinking and luck...

I had read about the speeding up and the slowing down.....but essentially no braking....

I decided real quick to take the energy from the situation by removing my foot from the accelerator........no brakes....and eventually the caravan and car returned to stability......so for me, remove the energy as opposed to speeding up is what worked, key being not to panic or brake as the latter will most certainly end in tears....

I learned my lesson and now usually set a mph monitor on the ext sat nav, go above the limit set and it beeps....not sure if the Volvo has the ability to do that on the year I have, it does have sat nav screen and i have the disc to facilitate it but have never used it as from memory it doesn't have post codes set it which is a nuisance.

Most post 2011 caravans are now equipped with Alko ATC which complements the Volvo stability system...it senses sway and applies the caravan brakes.

That said if you load it correctly including a good nose weight close to the max of your tow bar and you don't drive like the Dukes of Hazard then you minimise the chance of such sphincter twitching moments.

...and there is no substitute for a tow vehicle with ample torque that has a tare weight greater than the caravan.

I tow my van all over the country on a reg basis its no spring chicken its a 1994 swift 480 with alko anti snake hitch on and pulled by the old 1992 940 never had a problem with snaking just load both vehicles correctly and watch the nose weight on the van thats the important one and check the tyres just because the tread is good dont mean the tyres are not past there best for the cost of 2 tyres i replace mine every 2 years regardless seen a good few come unstuck with old tyres blowing out as for recovery out of a snake back off the peddle and dont brake braking just makes it 10 times worse

Towed caravan for 22 years had a few snaking episodes and have never accelerated out of them. I take the view that id rather be having an accident at slower speed than faster so i never touch the brakes, just ntake foot off accelerator and short steering corrections until stabilized...then a stop at services for an underwear change. Having an ALKO stabiliser on van is a godsend but they help reduce but dont stop a snake. If you snake i know HGVs are sometimes to blame but usually our speed is a high contributary factor. Even towing my van with a RR vogue I stay at or below 60