Control arm issues.
 

Hi,I planned this morning to change both control arms and balljoints on my '06 XC70.I'd been spraying plus gas on the various nuts and bolts over the past week so,having watched SiRobb change a control arm in 20 mins(while holding a camera!),hoped I would get everything done in 4 hours or so, ha!
Every nut and bolt had seized and could only be loosened by a breaker bar and then winding back and forth until they came loose so it took the best part of 4 hours just to get to the point where I could take off a control arm(passenger side).
By this time I'd decided to leave the balljoints for another day so attempted to fit the new control arm. It went on fairly easily but when it came to locating the balljoint,no matter how I tightened the ratchet strap it would not slip into place and seemed to be about an inch adrift. It didn't help when the ratchet strap stopped ratcheting but even with brute strength and ignorance, and a long bar,I could lever the control arm low enough but the balljoint would not seat.
I suspect that,despite being careful, the driveshaft has come apart and added extra distance hence the problem.
I can't be the first person this has happened to so how do I check and if needed relocate/rebuild the shaft?
Before anyone asks I compared the control arms side by side and they matched and even tried refitting the old arm but the problem is still there.
Any advice welcome but it may be a few days before I can have another go at this since I work on the car outside and the weather is changing for the worse.

Cheers

John

I just posted something about this in the "what I did today" thread, but anyway...

If the inner joint has come apart you will know about it just by looking - the boot will be noticeably stretched and the joint will be more or less fixed in a straight line rather than the shaft being able to move about at different angles.

The inner joint can be reassembled reasonably quickly but it helps to have an assistant and you'll need a new clip for the boot. Basically you need to remove the clip from the gearbox (large) end of the boot; you will see now for sure whether the bearings are still properly located in the large three-lobed housing or have slid out the end.

Reassembling is easiest if you have someone to hold the shaft vertically for you, with the inner joint at the bottom end - align the three bearing races with the three large flat areas on the housing and guide all three in simultaneously by "wobbling" them in and out until it descends into the housing. It's hard to describe better than that - you will feel that the three bearings can move a fair bit on their mounts and it's just a case of manipulating them all together until you feel the assembly go in.

Regarding the ball joint - could you use a bit of "gentle" pressure from below with a jack?

Cheers for the reply - I'll have a look inbetween the forthcoming showers.

I tried using a jack on the control arm but the balljoint thread would still only just touch the control arm. I also tried jacking up the strut while levering down the control arm but it seemed that whatever I tried, even though the balljoint was angled as far as it would go, it would never line up and 'seat' correctly.

Thanks again.

John

Hi, what if you remove the struts, you then will not have them fighting you,
Dave

Hi, thanks for the reply.
That was one of the things I thought of trying at first but realised (eventually) that this was more than just 'new part reluctance' and more or less convinced myself that the problem is the driveshaft - so taking the strut off may mean I could fit the control arm - but find I couldn't refit the strut and still have issues with the driveshaft. When the weather clears ( and I'm not quite so p**sed off) I'll look at it again.

Cheers

John

volvo have a long special tool which hooks onto the arm to press it down that extra inch ...

Hi, getting the arm far enough down wasn't the issue, it was that the balljoint seemed to be an inch or so 'beyond' where it could possibly seat - at best I could get the threaded part of the balljoint to just rest on the edge of the cone seat in the control arm. No amount of jiggling or gentle persuasion achieved anything but marking up the soft aluminium.

Cheers

John

In that case the inner tripod drive shaft joint has pulled out and is stopping the strut going any further inwards ...

Thats my thoughts exactly. Unfortunately it looks like the driveshaft has never been moved so getting it out to investigate may be yet another issue.

Cheers

John

Sorry for the issue, indeed I always first undo the drive shaft end bolt (14mm) first then make sure I can push in the shaft so it moves freely inside the hub. Only way not to cause it to stretch. You may still try to replace the CV joint balls - not sure if it's the same type, see links below

Stretched outer CV joint may simply be stiff to rotate (a CV joint would rotate really easily). Removing the inner CV joint from the transmission is where you may need some (or a lot) of patience. I use the spare wheel lug wrench to pry it out www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIlEIkgmS84 , if it doesn't work, the trick is to use two such 'tools' one at each end (180 degrees apart) and keep prying pressure with both while slightly rotating the shaft - keep rotating little by little while prying on it - will need a helper for this. To turn the shaft, the other wheel needs lifted (or transmission in N)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qXcn6QjYDA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1OMoNBHeXE

Thanks for the reply. Weather permitting I'm planning on taking the driveshaft out in the morning so I'll be better able to identify the source of the problem then. From the videos you posted links to I'd best practice some deep breathing excercises because relocating the bearings looks to test your patience!

Cheers

John

Don't worry - the inner joint is nothing like those videos (that's more like the outer joint.) It's like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrPi0Cmh5Pc

It is called a Tripod joint as i called it above , It is certainly not a constant Velocity joint as the American called it :-) , the velocity is variable .

Thanks to you both gents! That looks far less troublesome to accomplish. Weather permitting (and if I can get the driveshaft out) I'll be doing that this afternoon.

Thanks again.

John

Quick update - driveshaft out,surprisingly easily,but when I tried, just for interest with the driveshaft out, to fit the old balljoint into the control arm it still would not go. Since I had planned to replace the shocks anyway,due to 'misting' which is more like a flood on inspection, it was no big deal taking off the complete strut/hub assembly. So, awaiting my pleasure in the comfort of my cellar, I now have a driveshaft to re-align,a strut to rebuild,and a balljoint to persuade out of the hub and be replaced. Woopee.http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/images..._Impressed.gif

Cheers

John

No you're not the first person this happens to and it is not because the driveshaft came apart. It is because it cannot, I repeat, CANNOT be done. Probably depends on which control-arm you bought, but I could not get it in there despite a 6ft breakerbar. I was tearing up the newly installed rubber in the controlarms before it would even allign.

I removed the two bolts on the strut to get it to fit again.

I've bitched about youtube vids just skipping this, one moment they're almost fitting it, next shot it is in. So 20ms on the video (one frame) is what took me 6 hours or so.

Cannot be done? Which bit? I’ve had a driveshaft come apart on the inner end (the trick is to remove the calliper and it’s bracket, then everything clears.)
Couldn’t get the hub assembly to get close enough to the control arm, took the CV boot off, lined up the shaft abso-bloody-lutely square and it popped back in. Peened over the sharp edge to stop it coming out and 8,000 miles later, all is good.

On genuine Volvo control arms, they certainly can be levered down to fit as per the instructions in Vida.
My YouTube video doesn't skip this and shows the procedure clearly enough.

OP, in my more recent YouTube videos, I cover the replacement of both shafts, seals, ABS ring replacement and strut replacement/disassembly so hopefully one or more of those will be of some use to you.
Good luck.

Hi cheshired5.
I'm almost certain now the issue I faced was not due initially to a driveshaft that 'popped out'( I think it did later when I was getting more 'assertive') but for some reason the strut, when 'released' extended beyond where it was located by the control arm/balljoint so I could never force the control arm far enough down for it to re-engage. When I reassembled the old components, all volvo original, without the driveshaft, I could force the control arm down to where the metal of the arm near the rear bush was stopped by the subframe so couldn't be forced any further but still could not engage the balljoint in the arm.

Thanks for the pointer to the videos, I'm sure I'll find them informative - and keep up the good work - there must be thousands of Volvo owners by now who owe you a debt of gratitude.

Cheers

John

Tripod joint of the driveshaft was a breeze to realign - took off the boot clip and it was obvious one of the disc shaped bearings had travelled up and stuck. A bit of wriggling and a slight tap and everything went back into the 'cup' where it should be.
One question, what type of grease should be in there? The stuff that came out was thin and runny so I might as well put fresh in while its open

Cheers

John

Could it be that the upper spring seat is about to completely collapse, causing the spring to become partly 'uncompressed' from the strut rod ? That would explain an 'extended' strut. Anyhow, if everything up there is still original, new spring seats are certainly on the menu as well - either Sachs or CRP/Rein

I had different brand control arms (MOOG I think, still have the boxes to store the original old Volvo ones and I have since bought all replacement rubbers, so plenty to do on a rainy day).

When I did this, several years back, I think I followed this video. And the shot at 2:34 shows the control arm dangling downward enough to fit the bolt in without any straps or levers. In my case, it would be far more horizontal instead of dangling down by its own weight. No matter how far I loosened the bolts bolting it to the frame or levered it down, it would never get low enough to fit the bolt shown at 2:34 in the hole.
So either the car from the vid has lowered shocks and springs, my control arms had the rubbers in the wrong angle or both.

This may sound obvious, but I spent hours and hours trying to get the right control arm to fit on the left side. All the more embarrassing when I discovered they were marked L and R.

There is a slight swan neck to the arm - this has to go downwards.

That was one of the first things I checked for when I realised it wouldn't go!

Just awaiting a break in the rain ( probably next week looking at the forecast!) to put everything back together and find out what issues the drivers side can throw at me.

Cheers

John

I too preffer not working when it's raining/wet, even slightly. Installing a wet bolt, will have it rust and get stuck and be funny to undo in the future.

I learned this lesson the hard way too.

I now know it's much easier to remove the 2 lower strut bolts, gives you way more room and makes the job a doddle. The only downside is you will need an alignment after as these 2 bolts adjust the camber.

Generally I'm really impressed with how nice the car is to work on, great engineering!